limboland

I posted here a couple weeks ago about my situation. Married 22 years, but now separated due to ah's refusal to quit drinking. He bought a house for him this summer & I filed for divorce. We have a 60 day "cooling off" period in our state, so before the divorce could be final, he "came to his senses" (his words, not mine). He has now been sober for 8+ weeks & is wants so much to reconcile. I've been going to counseling since early June & have worked very hard on my recovery. I am already so much happier & content, even though so much of my life is in limbo at this point.

My question to you all is & I've asked it to a certain extent in my previous posts, is--is it possible for my ah to recover with counseling alone?? I've suggested AA (lightly), his counselor has hammered on him about AA, but hubby is convinced that he is fine on his own. He says he has no desire to drink, feels like he has been given a new lease on life, and has no intention at present on doing the 12 steps. I was reading the success stories on here & nowhere have I seen someone overcome it on their own--maybe I missed something???

At first he was very into reading books on relationships, which now leaves him confident that he will be such a better husband, father with this new knowledge, if I will just give him the chance. We had an exceptionally long talk last night about my ambivelance about our marriage (stay or go)& after being with this man for 26 years, I have to say I've never seen him speak from the heart with such sincerity in all those years. He does truly seem changed & has been consistent in this change for 2 months now.

I have so much to be greatful for after reading so many of your posts--for my husband being sober, great job, kids doing OK (all things considered). I have not given my hubby a definite answer on whether or not I want to work on our marriage. I'm afraid to make a commitment to try when I think that he maybe this is a "false" recovery because he's not in any sort of a program. Believe me, after all I've heard in counseling & read, I know the odds are so against him. I am having a really hard time letting down my wall with him, even though I want to believe him. I know I cannot control what he does & am responsible for my own happiness.

I think part of my problem is that I should have done this many years ago, when maybe I would have had more patience for the "wait & see" period that I'm currently in. It is my oldest daughter's senior year in high school, such a bittersweet time, & sometimes I feel that all of this other stuff is clouding my savoring of this time with her (& my other 2 kids). Plus I'm preparing to sit for the CPA exam & have not been putting the time into it because of all the unsettlement. (I've been in classes for 2 years & have to take this exam before the material I've just learned gets outdated!)

I've rambled on long enough, but would be interested to hear from anyone who can attest to the recovery without any program.
Thanks for all your support!

quietsins

hi,

for me.. my experience was that if they dont have support..and i mean constant day to day, hour to hour support..they wont make it.

recovery is just that.. rooting out what the hell went wrong and how the hell did i end up here. so that you dont do it again and learn.

therapy is great.. but expensive and not there 24/7. my ex quit drinking. he didnt go into AA. and with time.. he became weaker... until he was right back to where he was before.. because there wasnt anyone he could talk to that really knew what he was talking about.

i loved him very deeply.. am i an A? no. do i really know the demons he was fighting? no. can i understand his struggle? no. but i did understand that he had a choice and chose not to go into recovery. so i had to leave. his choice. my choice. reality.

if they cant and dont get support, and i mean.. real friends who arent so close they enable.. i see very little success. that is just my experience with it.

quietsins

splendra

I think it is possible to recover from the habit of drinking without AA especially if there is counseling involved. I stopped drinking with out the bennifit of AA. However, several years down the road I did end up needing help with my co-dependent self and had I not found alanon when I did I am sure I would not be sane today. I have often wondered if I had gone to AA would I have gone through what I did with my co-dependency. Getting over drinking was a breeze compared to what I went thru trying to get my loved ones to see the light and get clean. They are not clean but, fortunately I am. I have sober recovery too help me stay on track....and my sponcer and alanon...AA, NA.....

reader

Hi limbo, As far as people getting sober without AA. I know of only one person. He was a severe alcoholic, never recieved counseling or any outside help at all. He has been sober for over 25 years. I think he is the exception. I really hope that your H can maintain his soberity. Has he said why he doesn't want to go to AA? It certainly would help him longterm. Good luck with your test my mother went back to college when I was growing up to become a cpa. Get studing, you've got a promising future! Take Care and keep posting! Love, Kerry

JT

The facts are that more people get sober by simply quitting drinking than go to AA. That said I would still be cautious. The statistics are so poor for long term sobriety. I would look at what he is doing and ignore what he says. It's all about actions...is he walking the walk?

I almost left my marriage about 10 years ago for many reasons and working on myself was what stopped me. I was so loaded with bitterness that I wasn't able to see the good that was right in front of me. But that's me. I never really made the decision to not get divorced...I simply stay married one day at a time. My husband is not sober...I don't think he ever will be... and I have a great life. One of the best!

I think what you have to ask yourself is if your are willing to stay with him if he continues to drink...warts and all. Do his negatives outweigh his positives? Two months is a great start and I wouldn't take that away from him for a minute but it isn't enough time to base such a big decision on.

((Hugs))
JT

limboland

Thanks for your replies...it is good to hear that they may be a few others out there that may go a different route. I know when I posted before some others told me about other programs, but the problem is that hubby doesn't think he NEEDS any program--he thinks he just needs to stop drinking (which he has). He says he has no cravings or desire to drink at this point & is already so much happier except for the fact that he & I are still separated. However, he says even if we do divorce, he doesn't intend on drinking again, but he can't PROMISE me that if we divorce that he won't. (This one bothers me--makes me feel like I am the reason for his recovery) I can do nothing more than suggest recovery programs & try to explain to him why it would be a good idea. He really doesn't see any need for a program! As far as "walking the walk", he gets an A+--he's been a gem to me & the kids ever since this revelation he had a couple months ago. We've had some great times with him since then--he's a little more quiet, but seems genuinely happy.

Our relationship was still very good (despite the drinking), however I won't go back to living with him drinking again. It hurt me too bad & I've come too far...it would make me feel better if he was working a program of some sort, but I know that's no guarantee either.

As far as living with him sober, I don't really know about that either--we've never had that in 22 years of marriage! I know we will need marriage counseling if i do decide to "stay". Divorce almost seems simple in comparison--we have already divided everything up (house, cash, pension, bills, etc) & just need to have the lawyer draw up settlement agreement which could be done at any time. My emotions have been running hot & cold. Somedays it's very tempting for me to go ahead with the divorce & other days I feel like I really want to give our marriage a try. Mostly I feel that it would be easier on me to divorce--I feel when I get too close to him, that I go back to my old codie ways. I worry way more about his feelings than my own. Then my "red flags" go up & I pull away & withdraw, resent, etc. -- it's not pretty.

He has been pretty patient with my Dr Jekly & Mr Hyde personality swings, but I've been beating him up pretty badly, which I wonder if I do subconsiously(sp?). We have decided to take a few week break from each other to help me clarify my feelings. Where's that crystal ball when you need it??

Jazzman

Hey Limbo, actually, I'm thinking you are in good shape. Here's why..
Divorce is not easy even under the best of situations. My 1st was very amiccable, but still tough on me. If everything is at a paperwork stage and there are no leagal stones being cast around, why not finalize it. I think it's $10.00 for a marriage certificate if you guys work things out. You guys obviously need some space, some marriage counseling, who knows. You could be posting a really cool success story in 6 mos to a year. Or, you could wait and give it 6mos to a year w/ marriage counseling before you decide anything? Any kind of external time limit set here? Or just a "gut feeling" thing? Is anyone holding a gun to your head to get divorced? (metaphorically speaking of course)

I gotta tell you, 22 years ago I quit a tough cocaine addiction cold turkey. No program, no therapy, no counseling, nada. Never once relapsed and it's just something in my past I'm not proud of and have moved on. Now I'm sure that's very different becasue you don't drive by a dozen "quicky marts" on your way home from work where you could just drop in and pick up a gram for ten bucks..... LOL! (that's not really funny, just got a weird visual)

I guess my point is, why is it a show stopper for you if he is not working a program? If the results are there, he walks the walk, who the hell cares? Why not just make marrige counseling your condition? Will he go? Have you two ever been before? If so, was it productive?

BTW- I agree w/ your boundaries about not going back to living w/ the drinking again.. It's just that I see a lot of options in your situation.

Jazzman

Wanted to restate - if he walks the walk! Now I realize that's a BIG IF!

Cap3

Hey Limboland,both my hub and i are,sober alcoholics.Both living in the principals of AA.I also go to Al-anon.
Have, known a few other alcoholics who do not go to any recovery programs.What they have in common is there is God in their lives.
Al-anon is a great recovery program that puts the focus on me.Here is where i came to realize that i too played my own part in the family disease,called alcoholism.{Whether i drank or not,myslef.}Changes in me,and learning a new way to live,is what changed my life.Had nothing at all to do with what hub,does or doesnt do.I always thought that he was all the problems in my life.That wasnt the truth.The truth was that my focus was on him,more than my own thoughts and actions....I wanted change..And learned that changes in me,changes my life,.
Thanks for letting me share,
God Bless,take care!!!!!!

limboland

Hey Jazzman,
To answer your questions--we are both in counseling, although not marriage counseling per se. I started going to a counselor in June & at that time, my h wouldn't go. My counselor was helping me to get over the loss of my marriage & dealing w/codie issues. Hubby started counseling in Sept after he quit drinking. He wanted this to be marriage counseling, but I told him I wasn't ready to work on the marriage yet. I went w/him twice so far, mostly so the counselor could see where I'm at w/the marriage.

You ask what my hurry is--no deadlines here, but it's very "messy", confusing & emotionally draining for all of us to be in limbo. I've been torturing myself w/guilt that I'm not ready to work on my marriage yet!! I have to be at a much better place than I am now & really wonder if/when I'll ever get there. In many ways, I am already living life as a divorcee. We had gotten so far in the divorce proceedings that we are both living in separately-owned houses, separated our day-to-day finances, household, etc. all with no legal separation agreement. He is helping us financially, paying child support & even some extras for the kids if I can't swing it, actually being overly-generous right not (sometimes I feel like he's trying to buy me). Actually, once I worked through the mourning of the loss of my marriage in counseling, I grew sort of excited about being single & "on my own". I was married at the age of 20 & dated him since I was 17! I love the independence & w/two teenage daughters & 20 yo son living at home, it's far from lonely around here. The kids have adjusted to it all quite well--in fact it sort of bothers/confuses them that hubby & I still see each other as often as we do.

So what's the problem you ask? I told my hubby when he first wanted to work on the marriage, that it had all gone too far for me--I still wanted the divorce. He asked for more time to prove himself. I said ok, but we never really set a time frame, but knew that divorce couldn't legally be final anyway until early October. Would he attending AA or participating in some sort of recovery program help me get there?? I don't know, but it scares me when I hear my counselor, his counselor, & read so much about those that relapse trying to do this on their own. It's really hard for me to trust that he can do this, even after he has 60+ days of sobriety under his belt. Like you said Jazzman, I think a divorce could actually work for us. Get divorced--let him fully recover (or not), let me have my independence & freedom for a while--& see what happens in a year or two. For me, I feel that this would be a true "test", if that makes any sense. I feel that he needs to find his true happiness in life without me and without drinking--I don't want to be his only happiness & it's too easy to fall into that pattern if we jump back into this relationship. I feel that I've paid my dues in dealing with his drinking-I could not still be supportive if he relapsed--I would be DONE. I accept responsibility for waiting so long to stop my part in this--maybe it would have turned out better for our family if I had done this sooner. But I can't change the past...

He can't stand the thought of the divorce, but understands where I'm at right now & realizes that it may still come to that. He keeps saying its all his fault. In the past two months, I really think he's cried every tear, spoke every word & felt every feeling that have been numbed by all the alcohol. I truly feel for him & think he's on the right path, but I'm not in love with him right now & don't feel it's fair to either of us to pretend. I can't consistently be nice/loving to him for any length of time right now. I can't bring myself to put my wedding ring back on right now. He says he is willing to wait (to a certain extent), but as I've said all along, I don't think he has enough patience for me.

JT

Limbo,

You have just made one of the best arguments for leaving a marriage that I have ever heard. You have done the work on you, you have thought it through forward and backward, you are excited at the prospect of independence and you are not running away with unrealistic expectancies. The only thing that is holding you back is a little bit of guilt and a sense of obligation. Even those two things you are aware of. And it seems that you are keeping the emotional aspect at bay. Bravo to you!

Jazzman

Very powerful statement there...
I couldn't agree more! I have been a "crutch" before in a very similar sense. I would rather have a partner.

meli2005

I don't think you have to be going to AA every night , but I do think it is helpful to go to maybe a meeting or two a week. I think that is managable for most people. He needs to continue the counseling. IS he seeing an addictions counselor? That is very helpful. Both my AH and I have been seeing an addictions counselor ourselves and it has helped a lot.

I was about to go the divroce route w/my AH. He has been sober about 50 days now, which has been great, but there are still many stresses. He is out of a job b/c while he was on medical leave his job was filled. He also got diagnosed with bipolar disorder while on medical leave. Getting that dx has made stopping drinking much easier or managable to say the least.

Just right now, just live one day at a time. Don't try to think too far in advance right now. I think time is what you need right now, see how he does, what his actions show, etc. Good luck.

limboland

Well, I finally made the decision to finalize the divorce and spoke w/my H last night. It was very hard, but after hearing some of the things he had to say, I'm very confident that I made the right decision for me. Once I told him that I wanted to pursue the divorce, these were some of his comments:

"I was just going to ask you if it would make you feel better if I start going to AA. But now that doesn't matter anymore." (HUH?? ME feel better--what about him & why the HXXX didn't he do this right away when counselor, me, etc suggested over 2 months ago)

"I can't promise that I won't have a drink or two every now & then. But I know I won't go back to drinking like I was before." (The sobriety was only a condition if I stayed with him).

Just as I have felt all along & have tried to explain to him, I can't bear the responsibility of his sobriety/recovery. He swore he was doing it for "us" & him, but it sure doesn't appear that way. I pray that he continues his sobriety & goes to the AA meetings/counselors for him. As for me, I am looking forward to getting the paperwork finalized & giving my emotions some much deserved rest. I have analyzed this decision to death & I am tired! Thanks to everyone for their responses.

minnie

(((limboland)))

Rest is good. Be gentle with yourself - I always find that I am exhausted once a big decision has been made.

Oh, and I recognise those things your OH said - is there an active alcoholics phrase book somewhere?

Jazzman

Well I guess you're gonna have to change your handle now...
hmmmm....
Limboland NOT?
No mo limbo?

I'll think of some more... But for now, take a load off. Sounds to me from the responses you got, you probably made the right move.

meli2005

Glad you have come to a conclusion you are happy with. Get your rest and be gentle with yourself. Divorce is a hard road to go through.