fraankie

last week Science Times section
mention that gossip serves a purpose
as far as helping others follow the social norm
but that malicious gossip was a sign of power
too much to explain
can be accessed thru ny times website
but
on of the replies to a post
stated quite clearly that the poster was gossiping

i see the site as a way to get feedback
or
as helping others by sharing my experience
life as well, as alcoholism

WHAT DO YOU SAY????????????????////

historyteach

Frankie;
Could you post the link? I think that would help in determining perspective on this.
Off the cuff, I think sharing our ESH is different than gossip. Sharing our ESH is, by definition, about ourselves. Gossiping is about others.
Now, if I talk about another in a positive manner, is that gossip? Ex: "She has 11 years clean today!!! Isn't that wonderful?"
In a negative manner - well, I try very hard not to succumb to that. I don't like it done against myself; I don't want to do it against another. The old saying is true; "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything." And sometimes, silence can say much more - as a social deterent.
One thing I've learned is this. When a person gossips to me about another, it's only a matter of time before they gossip ABOUT me.
A gossip is a gossip is a gossip!

Shalom!

Dan

The easiest way to keep a secret is without help

findingout

Is this site gossip?

No, this site is recovery.

Music

If I talk about someone else without them being present, it's gossip!

Main Entry: 1gos·sip
Pronunciation: 'gä-s&p
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English gossib, from Old English godsibb, from god god + sibb kinsman, from sibb related -- more at SIB
1 a dialect British : GODPARENT b : COMPANION, CRONY c : a person who habitually reveals personal or sensational facts about others
2 a : rumor or report of an intimate nature b : a chatty talk c : the subject matter of gossip
- gos·sip·ry /-s&-prE/ noun

And, it's not fair! All you "political correct" nazis who want a "level playing field" and everything to be "fair" with everyone having an equal chance, should be outraged when someone comes here and shares something about anyone but themselves. Hell, I know we all do it but that doesn't make it anything else but gossip. Nothing is more personal or sensational than a fellow AAs sober time and it's a positive thing. However, I'm the only person who has the right to tell someone else how long I've been sober. I can let it be known that I don't have a problem with others talking about me and that's my prerogative. If I have a problem in my marriage, you can bet I'm not coming here with it. None of you are qualified to deal with relationship problems, at least not at this medium.

PS...The day I go to the New York Times, which is not worth lining the bottom of my birdcage, or for rapping smelly fish, will be the day I start believing Liberalism is the way to go in this country.

historyteach

SO, then, if I share something about myself, and it includes how another impacted me, is THAT gossip?
Remember, I'm sharing about ME.
That my addicted son or gambling ex or anyone else for that matter, effects me is still the same; it's about ME!

Music, you have a better chance of being heard without the "nazi" rhetoric. Just a thought. That language has a specific meaning; you are misusing it. *sigh*
Shalom!

Dan

you have a better chance of being heard without the "nazi" rhetoric. Just a thought. That language has a specific meaning; you are misusing it.

That's a keeper

Extra! Extra, read all about it.
Thread about gossip turns to partisan politics inside five hours

My two cents about the topic at hand, and in context, relating to us drunks...
I have opinions about every one I interact with. I'm human; I observe.
If I decide to voice these opinions about an individual to another person, then it's on me to accept the consequences, whatever they may be.
The problem with gossip is that the opinion I may voice will most likely have been embellished and transformed by the time it gets down the road.
Choosing not to gossip is really a way to retain control of my personal opinions about other human beings. And being the imperfect beasts we are, it's a task of large proportions for a lot us.

Why do we gossip in the first place?
I've often wondered about that. What do I, as an individual, gain, by discussing what I perceive as another's shortcomings? Or good attributes, even...
Why can I not keep the focus on the moment and place where I am with another person, without bringing in an invisible third party?

And what of anonymity?
Drunks and addicts may choose, as Music points out, to let it be known certain aspects of their lives are open. Again, a matter of personal choice.

In this medium though, as soon as I share something about my life, it becomes public domain. I can only hope that something positive is revealed to another person when I do so. And that's really all it's about. Sharing what's real inside me. Sharing anything else would be a waste of bandwidth

Gooch

I needed to read that, I know better and I've done it recently as well.

I am afraid though that with the widespread misuse of the word it may well turn up in the dictionary in the next decade with a broadened defintition.

historyteach

"And what of anonymity?
Drunks and addicts may choose, as Music points out, to let it be known certain aspects of their lives are open. Again, a matter of personal choice."

Ok, but again...what about us anons?? We are effected by the actions of our addicted loved ones. In my particular case, my husband of 24 years and my only child. Both lied and stole from me. I had to learn how to deal effectively. And that learning don't come easy -- be it a marriage or a child.
So, we go to our meetings and we share. And we get support. And little by little, we learn where to put the focus. Because we were able to share.
Had we not had the opportunity to share, we would not be able to grow in OUR program. So many of us come into the program totally beaten down; thinking that life just isn't worth living anymore; that our entire life had been a lie. This is NO exageration.
So, is it a matter of the addict's choice then?
I - personally - disagree. If it were not for the sharing that I was able to do; the vent if you will; I don't believe that I would have come out of the massive depression I was in. I don't believe that I would have grown.
This sharing *may* involve another person, but, it's about MY life. And MY growth as a human being.

Just one other thought here. This is from Gooch. He once said, and it stuck in my head, that anonymity is not so much about not being *known* but, it's more about no one person being *better than* or *more than* another in the fellowship. Personally, I thought that quite interesting and positive. For what it's worth, I liked that idea much better. JMHO.

In this medium though, as soon as I share something about my life, it becomes public domain. I can only hope that something positive is revealed to another person when I do so. And that's really all it's about. Sharing what's real inside me. Sharing anything else would be a waste of bandwidth.

I agree, except for one thing...sharing what's in me may not always be positive. But, I'm still sharing what's inside of me. And often, that vent is the road to growth through reflection. I wish everything about me WAS positive; I just know that it's not.
But, I'm working on it!

Good thoughts here!
Shalom!

CAPTAINZING2000

It's easier to share on here then any where else. Unlike a confessional where the priest probably knows who you are when, you go to confess. All any one sees from us here is our words.

Many of us have shared conversations on the phone. There are the lucky ones that got to meet from S/R as well.

I enjoy the fact that, I can come on here and spill my guts. Some things, I wouldn't tell any one else

Dan

Teach, when I share in a meeting or here, I don't talk about so and so's behavior, and how it has affected my life. I'm guessing that's a fundamental difference between you the anon, and me the drunk.
Dunno. To me, again, getting back to the topic of the thread, I don't see any gossip on the boards. But I'd challenge any of us to offer up the contents of our private message boxes, just for fun.

So the point I'm trying to make is that the gossip that may go on here at SoberRecovery is more or less unseen, and therefore, has less chance of hurting the persons being gossiped about. But what about the people gossiping? It goes back to what I said in my earlier post.
What's missing in my life, that I find it necessary to talk about someone, and not necessarily in a negative manner, behind their backs, or without their knowledge, if you prefer?

historyteach

Thanks, Dan;
Although I used your post to respond to...it is really a question meant for anyone. I'm sorry if that was unclear, because I didn't mean to *corner* you.
It's an honest question though. And it may just be a fundamental difference between the programs.

Having said that, I also know that we anons have character defects that *we*, (read *I*) need to work on too. And after we get past that initial period of emotional release, (which vacilates back and forth for a while -- maybe always? Again, I don't know...) we, (I), need to work on those defects in character.
(In fact, I wrote an anon's analytical response to Jon's post titled, What Addicts Do, detailing our, (my), typical behaviors prior to our, (my), recovery, on another thread. May just post it sometime for feedback...)

"But what about the people gossiping? It goes back to what I said in my earlier post.
What's missing in my life, that I find it necessary to talk about someone, and not necessarily in a negative manner, behind their backs, or without their knowledge, if you prefer?"
There, I agree completely. What is it?
I won't say I've *never* been guilty of it, but, I certainly try my darndest not to partake in that behavior.
Here is a saying I really like, and teach to my students each year...
"Small minds talk about people, Average minds talk about events, Great minds discuss ideas"
Oh, and *I'm* up for the challenge, LOL!
Good thoughts....
I do think this site is recovery, though; not gossip - in the spirit of getting back to the original idea presented by Frankie.
Shalom!

Dan

"Brilliant people talk about ideas.
Average people talk about things.
Small people talk about other people."

2dayzmuse

Gossip, be it fact or fiction, playful or viscious, most of us are guilty of it in one form or another. Sometimes, it is used as a form of communication or for thoughtless entertainment, but truth be told... It looks better on someone else. If you know what I mean? Sometimes we don't realize how painful gossip can be until we are the victim of it.

Music

Teach, I used the word just exactly the way I meant to use it. If it has a special meaning to you, that's fine. As far as I know I still have my freedom of speech and if I choose to use a certain word, it's my choice. You may either listen to what I say or not, that's your choice. The person who started this thread may get a little more help if the "gossip" rhetoric would stop and the honesty rhetoric would start. There's a difference when I credit someone with being a positive influence on my life, and when I discredit someone and try to point the finger at another as to why I'm miserable. Again, you won't hear that coming from me.

Don S

Uh, Music, the term 'Nazi' is a little extreme. If it doesn't have the same meaning to you that it does to most of the rest of the world after WWII, then you might want to review your history texts before applying it as a pejorative so freely. Get off your high horse and be a little more careful with your language. Nobody's denying your 'freedom of speech', just suggesting more discretion and consideration.

Please send me your demo CD of that! I can't wait to hear it.
Don S

2dayzmuse

People do that all the time. Point the finger of blame. I was guilty in the past, but I now know and accept I am responsible for my own outcome. I no longer try to push the blame. However...gossip or denial?

Music

Hi Don,
I was wondering how long it would take for you to slide into the discussion. Extreme maybe but I did use a little "n". I'll use discretion and consideration when and where it's proper. I meant what I said.

Dan

Actually Music, I'd like to upload a few samples at the musicians site too

Historical nuances aside, the term nazi has come to represent a certain perceived type of AA member Don, I'm sure you've heard that. Unfortunate circumstance, I suppose.
I myself, tend to favor troglodyte or pond bottom dweller, depending if the month ends in 'r' or not.
But even then, those of us like Music, with unshakeable convictions and wisdom of prolonged sobriety, have the benefit of being able to do a tenth step, and own up to our part in any misunderstanding.
Not that I'm suggesting anything, Music

fraankie

come on, music
your screen name implies
serenity, creativity, inspiration, art
and
you liken gossip to a movement to destroy the world, hitler, no less
and the article was in the ny times,so be it your opinion
but
it was in the science times section
i doubt if the would put a polictical slant on it

i find your use of the "n" word offensive for someone in the fellowship