JT

...Taking my power back, being assertive, stating my needs/wants and standing up for them. It always seems to involve another person and it feels like manipulation/control and I end up feeling guilty.

Then on the other hand if I revert to what is comfortable I can do a really good martyr.

I can't seem to find the middle...and do I even want to??

Hugs,
JT

equus

Thanks for posting this JT!!!

I find this hard when it involves needs or wants but easier when it involves stuff I DON'T want - if that makes sense??

I also hate the thougt of being manipulative and as a result I can tend to be a little over direct. I think of my mother's scheming and it's just something that repulses me. I try and look at it in terms of fairness. Using my mother as an example it's reasonable to want attention - no crime there; BUT it's unfair to get that by causing harm to everyone else. It's reasonable to want affection BUT unfair to get that through guilt and lying, it's reasonable to want sympathy but unfair to use lies to get it.

Replace the word unfair with manipulative and it starts to get where I see it. I don't see us influencing each others behaviours as inherently bad - we're group animals, we're hard wired that way and even in asking someone to 'pass the salt' we are influencing their actions. I only start to see a problem when that becomes unfair, or when it's done by unfair means. If we asked someone to come into the room so they could pass the salt from the other end of the table - because we invented a problem with our legs - just for the attention and power THEN it's manipulative. If they're just sat nearer the salt it isn't.

I think I just do my best to stay reasonable and fair. I'm not perfect but that's what I try to aim for.

JT

That makes total sense and that is usually when I become assertive, too. Also when the very basics of life are threatened. So why the guilt??

At this point I suppose the guilt becomes irrelevent if I have thought through my actions. That is just a knee-jerk reaction to putting another person on the spot. I have to remember that the other person's reactions are not within my power. Just because I stand up and say what I mean doesn't guarantee the other person is going to agree. Quite on the contrary.... history shows me they won't.

Thanks...
JT

equus

I think that's absolutely fair and reasonable - the 'bad' maipulative version would be to pretend you had a life threatening disease in order to 'make' them agree. (Don't laugh - it's not beneath some people!).

historyteach

I'm hearing you, JT. It's just that when I stand up for my needs, I some/often times feel like I'm being a B. Or, that I'm overreacting.
But, when I don't ask for what I need, I don't GET what I need.
Either way, I usually don't like the out come.
I'm working on asking for what I need, and leaving the guilt behind.
I'm working on it....
Shalom!

cwohio

amen historyteach!!

JT

Sorry too late! But I get exactly what you said...I have a drama queen inside dieing to get out!

Yup...feel like I am over reacting. yup...feel like I am being a B...or is it that the other person is causing me to feel that way? They can't MAKE me feel that way...I have to own my own feelings but they can damn sure try.

I wish I could take a stand without second guessing myself.

JT

Dust Bunny

This is a problem that plagues me as well. I was reminded at a recent meeting that it's NOT "hard" ... it's different. ;-)

It's not so much that I am unable to stand up for myself. I fear that expressing myself will make others uncomfortable. I need to learn that their feelings are their problem, not mine. Much easier said than done.

I also have to work on how I express myself. If someone disagrees with my POV, I feel a need to have them accept my viewpoint and if they don't, I get frustrated and sometimes angry. I may even sulk for a while. I am trying to remember to treat others with kindness even though they disagree with me. My oppinions & feelings are probably much more important to me than they are to anyone else ... and that's OK! ... as long as I can refrain from beating people over the head with them. =)

JessicaNAJ

YES YES YES...I know exactly how you feel. Thank you for putting this into words for me.

And you are absolutely right, I too have to own my own feelings.

Thanks JT

Gabe

Oh me too.
Being assertive is not my strong point.
Being assertive when it comes to my feelings on certain issues is most assuredly not my strong point.
Hence the internal debate begins.
Between the side of me that knows it is always better to voice how I'm feeling about something and the side of me that thinks it's better to just keep my lip zipped.
Way to go JT, making me think about something I was trying to dodge.

Josie

J.T.

I have been a drama queen most of my life and it
was about really stupid stuff. And a martyr.
The first thing I learned here was to shut up.
Now it is important stuff. When I say something
it is big. It's about me, my boundaries, and
about my beliefs. It seems like I am constantly
in protective mode and I don't like it. I want
to be heard and I'm not. And these people who don't
hear me and understand me....I want them to go away LOL
Some days I question my sanity and second guess.
This is with my family and this is at work also.
I just want to be maybe acknowledged? Is that the
martyr in me? Phooey.

Well I HEAR you J.T.


Hugs,

JT

Ya know Josie that was profound! The first thing I learned in Al Anon was to shut up. And, like you now, when I do open my mouth it is the important stuff. And when I do open my mouth, just because it is important to me doesn't mean that I will be agreed with. So then I have to shut up again and listen just like I want the other person to do. And I don't have to agree either....or compromise what is important to me.

Some days I feel like I am in kindergarten!
JT

Josie

Lol