Depression - it's all in your head?
Caring for the 3 little bears
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Oz
Posts: 509
Depression - it's all in your head?
Day three home from rehab. He is just sitting around doing almost nothing. He did go to a meeting yesterday and today. However, I am doing mostly well. Just sticking to my normal routine, other than being on vacation. Doing my weekend chores during the week so I can have the weekend free!! hip hip hooray!
He seems so depressed. On three or maybe even four different occassions over the past 3 years, different doctors have prescribed anti-depressants. He has never taken them for more than a week. I don't know if it is denial on his part or what. He just refuses to take them. He was given a prescription in January, and I think one pill is missing.
So, tonight was the first night I have asked him about anything to do with rehab. I asked if anti-depressants were ever discussed. He said, "yes, they say not to take them, it's all in your mind."
Hmmmm, never heard that one before. Especially from professional people. Everything I have read about it says alcoholism and depression are very intertwined. It's kinda obvious to those of us who have lived with an A for a long time. So, do you think he is simply stuck in his anti-antidepressant phase or is it possible that professionals in a rehab facility really said this?
He seems so depressed. On three or maybe even four different occassions over the past 3 years, different doctors have prescribed anti-depressants. He has never taken them for more than a week. I don't know if it is denial on his part or what. He just refuses to take them. He was given a prescription in January, and I think one pill is missing.
So, tonight was the first night I have asked him about anything to do with rehab. I asked if anti-depressants were ever discussed. He said, "yes, they say not to take them, it's all in your mind."
Hmmmm, never heard that one before. Especially from professional people. Everything I have read about it says alcoholism and depression are very intertwined. It's kinda obvious to those of us who have lived with an A for a long time. So, do you think he is simply stuck in his anti-antidepressant phase or is it possible that professionals in a rehab facility really said this?
Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
Please it is physiology in the brain. Depressed people have smaller amaglydas and without treatment they continue to atrophy and shrink, depression is a progressive disease.
Also, everyday! it takes 6 to 8 weeks to work.
Maybe it's "no good" because you can't take one and get a buzz.
Addiction likes instant gratification.
Sorry if I stepped on any feet.
But this is an old soapbox for me. No, it is not all in my head, just needing to think write and get my sh!t together. I can't when my brain isn't functioning properly.
Also, everyday! it takes 6 to 8 weeks to work.
Maybe it's "no good" because you can't take one and get a buzz.
Addiction likes instant gratification.
Sorry if I stepped on any feet.
But this is an old soapbox for me. No, it is not all in my head, just needing to think write and get my sh!t together. I can't when my brain isn't functioning properly.
Dancing To My Own Beat
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: I don't know what kind of state I'm in
Posts: 1,326
Drinking is but a symptom of alcoholism. Stopping drinking is paramount to being able to BEGIN recovery, but stopping in and of itself isn't the answer. Alcohol allows a person to escape the pain of looking at themself, and making changes in their life that are healthy. Many alcoholics stop drinking for many different reasons at times. They may stop because their family wants them to, they get a DUI, their job is in jeopardy, etc. But if they don't deal with the things that drove them to drink in the first place, they will go back to what makes them ok; drinking.
Emotions are very powerful. They drive us all, at times, to escape, in one form or another. For me, it drove me to watch a lot of TV, try to control others so I would be ok, shop, over eat, diet obsessively, seek attention, and much more. Recovery gave me a way to stop avoiding looking at myself and healing the things which caused me pain. The same is true for alcoholics. They either find a way to deal with the things that cause them deep pain, or they go back to the relief of drinking.
In my own experience, each one of us has to come to that decision on our own. The solutions are offered. The help is there. But we have to be willing to go through the work to get the results. Many times I have taken the easy way out. Destructive or not, it was how I dealt with things.
I don't have a problem with anti depressants. Some people benefit from them. But they aren't a cure for alcoholism. They don't cure the emptiness that is caused by alcoholism. They don't keep someone from having to make changes in their life, their attitudes, and their beliefs. There isn't a pill that will "fix" what is wrong with us.
Recovery from alcoholism, for me and for the alcoholic, takes work. It takes a willingness to look at the underlying problems, and change. It takes help from others. Without that, no anti depressant will be very effective. That's my experience. Believe me, I wish there was a pill that could make everything better. But I've been down that road too many times to believe that is an answer. Hugs, Magic
Emotions are very powerful. They drive us all, at times, to escape, in one form or another. For me, it drove me to watch a lot of TV, try to control others so I would be ok, shop, over eat, diet obsessively, seek attention, and much more. Recovery gave me a way to stop avoiding looking at myself and healing the things which caused me pain. The same is true for alcoholics. They either find a way to deal with the things that cause them deep pain, or they go back to the relief of drinking.
In my own experience, each one of us has to come to that decision on our own. The solutions are offered. The help is there. But we have to be willing to go through the work to get the results. Many times I have taken the easy way out. Destructive or not, it was how I dealt with things.
I don't have a problem with anti depressants. Some people benefit from them. But they aren't a cure for alcoholism. They don't cure the emptiness that is caused by alcoholism. They don't keep someone from having to make changes in their life, their attitudes, and their beliefs. There isn't a pill that will "fix" what is wrong with us.
Recovery from alcoholism, for me and for the alcoholic, takes work. It takes a willingness to look at the underlying problems, and change. It takes help from others. Without that, no anti depressant will be very effective. That's my experience. Believe me, I wish there was a pill that could make everything better. But I've been down that road too many times to believe that is an answer. Hugs, Magic
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
Personally I think our cultural view of mental health is 80% superstition. The brain is just an organ, no more or less likely to go wrong than any other organ in our bodies. People that think depression is somehow less physical do so because the alternative scares the hell out of them - the reality that their brain could go wrong too.
I had a bout of bad depression early last year I was prescribed AD's and took them but for me they didn't really make any difference - something else changed which I believe kick started a chemical reaction.
My husband has had some depression most of his adult life - at times it's been very bad and part of it comes out as self blame rather than an awareness in him that depression is back. He'll call himself lazy but I see a person who has stopped doing the things HE enjoys - that's different from getting out of chores. When it's like that it does work to give him gentle reminders that he might not be well. I might point out he's tired despite hours of sleep, or that some things in his life are slipping. I leave him to come to the conclusion it could be depression.
He had a VERY bad reaction to a certain (now discredited) AD, as a result he fights it mentally and physically by forcing himself into action, he refuses point blank to ever try AD's again. As with MANY physical illnesses behaviour can make a difference, there are 1000's of accepted physical complaints that are managed by changing behaviour. Watching him fight it is so surreal because I can visibly see the effort it takes to make himself get moving again and yet he doesn't acknowledge it in any way.
I hate that he's so ashamed of it - I hate the depression with a passion, maybe even more than the booze. Each time he fights it he does it by believing he can, that's how he motivates himself, each time he beats it, beating it centres all his self belief, each time it comes back it takes away the self belief - and then he finds the willpower from somewhere to start all over again. It'll be with us coming and going for a long time yet, maybe always but then maybe his heart will change and he'll let go of the shame, credit himself with the willpower he shows and GET HELP.
I think some things do make a real difference though, your attitude to mental health (that it isn't weird) will help, understanding helps too.
One thing I would say though, (just my opinion) that's to be VERY careful in arguments when someone is depressed. I don't mean not to argue but to be disciplined in keeping it on the 'issue' not the person and making sure it's in perspective and context. When someone's depressed it's the perspective that can fly out the window so a complaint about being late for dinner can turn into a black and white 'whole relationship' trust issue, rather than - you should have rung, next time ring.
BLARG!!! The whole lot of the above is just stuff that helped me to understand - not gospel!!
I had a bout of bad depression early last year I was prescribed AD's and took them but for me they didn't really make any difference - something else changed which I believe kick started a chemical reaction.
My husband has had some depression most of his adult life - at times it's been very bad and part of it comes out as self blame rather than an awareness in him that depression is back. He'll call himself lazy but I see a person who has stopped doing the things HE enjoys - that's different from getting out of chores. When it's like that it does work to give him gentle reminders that he might not be well. I might point out he's tired despite hours of sleep, or that some things in his life are slipping. I leave him to come to the conclusion it could be depression.
He had a VERY bad reaction to a certain (now discredited) AD, as a result he fights it mentally and physically by forcing himself into action, he refuses point blank to ever try AD's again. As with MANY physical illnesses behaviour can make a difference, there are 1000's of accepted physical complaints that are managed by changing behaviour. Watching him fight it is so surreal because I can visibly see the effort it takes to make himself get moving again and yet he doesn't acknowledge it in any way.
I hate that he's so ashamed of it - I hate the depression with a passion, maybe even more than the booze. Each time he fights it he does it by believing he can, that's how he motivates himself, each time he beats it, beating it centres all his self belief, each time it comes back it takes away the self belief - and then he finds the willpower from somewhere to start all over again. It'll be with us coming and going for a long time yet, maybe always but then maybe his heart will change and he'll let go of the shame, credit himself with the willpower he shows and GET HELP.
I think some things do make a real difference though, your attitude to mental health (that it isn't weird) will help, understanding helps too.
One thing I would say though, (just my opinion) that's to be VERY careful in arguments when someone is depressed. I don't mean not to argue but to be disciplined in keeping it on the 'issue' not the person and making sure it's in perspective and context. When someone's depressed it's the perspective that can fly out the window so a complaint about being late for dinner can turn into a black and white 'whole relationship' trust issue, rather than - you should have rung, next time ring.
BLARG!!! The whole lot of the above is just stuff that helped me to understand - not gospel!!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: a state of unrest
Posts: 383
Wow some very good advice here. I agree with everyone else that it's not JUST in your head.
Wray,
I know how you must feel, mine has been prescribed ad and will not take them either. He thinks that it's something you can just will yourself out of, on the other hand when I start to get a little moody, he tells me to go take a pill. Funny, he gave me the impression they don't work. Good luck on this, I'm sorry I don't have any good advice for you, just a big (((((HUG))))!!
Mindi
Wray,
I know how you must feel, mine has been prescribed ad and will not take them either. He thinks that it's something you can just will yourself out of, on the other hand when I start to get a little moody, he tells me to go take a pill. Funny, he gave me the impression they don't work. Good luck on this, I'm sorry I don't have any good advice for you, just a big (((((HUG))))!!
Mindi
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: El Paso, Tx
Posts: 5,862
In early recovery the body is going through many major changes. Both Psychologically and as mentioned physiological. It's not uncommon for some to experiance depression in the early stages of recovery. Not only are our bodies adjusting but we're in a sort of mourning process as well. Sounds somewhat selfish I know, but it's the truth. Grief can come in many forms and especially when it comes to loosing the only thing that has allowed us to function.
You mentioned that the doctors prescribed anti-depressants in the past, was he actively drinking? As alcoholism can be the root cause of depression as well, and if activly drinking the anti-depressants would not have worked.
According to the American Psychological Association depression is a real disorder that can only be diagnosed by a liscensed professional. The DSM-IV ( the APA's criteria for diagnosing) has an entire section on depression.
To answer your question though, all in the head? No, I believe what he's experiancing is real, but is it due to recovery from alcoholism or a true clinical diagnoses only his doctor can say for sure. So that's where I would start. It's alway's a good idea to get a baseline for your health when going through any major change as quitting. It's nice to see the progress our bodies make the longer we stay in recovery. So if he would go for it, I'd see if he'd be open to getting a physical, and then he can discuss his depression or lack of it with his doctor.
You mentioned that the doctors prescribed anti-depressants in the past, was he actively drinking? As alcoholism can be the root cause of depression as well, and if activly drinking the anti-depressants would not have worked.
According to the American Psychological Association depression is a real disorder that can only be diagnosed by a liscensed professional. The DSM-IV ( the APA's criteria for diagnosing) has an entire section on depression.
To answer your question though, all in the head? No, I believe what he's experiancing is real, but is it due to recovery from alcoholism or a true clinical diagnoses only his doctor can say for sure. So that's where I would start. It's alway's a good idea to get a baseline for your health when going through any major change as quitting. It's nice to see the progress our bodies make the longer we stay in recovery. So if he would go for it, I'd see if he'd be open to getting a physical, and then he can discuss his depression or lack of it with his doctor.
Caring for the 3 little bears
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Oz
Posts: 509
Thanks everyone. He used to listen to a local radio show and the host and he became friends. This is someone who had an author on his show and discussed the wickedness of anti-depressants. I don't even remember who the author was, but she had a convincing argument (convincing to my AH anyway) that these drugs are very bad. My AH is one of "those" people who blames Prozac for people going "crazy." I don't know if he has his facts straight.
I have often thought, "he doesn't get a buzz that's why he refuses to take them." I have wondered about him "admitting he has something wrong with him" contributing to this. But, he has ALWAYS admitted to having a drinking problem. So, I don't know if that is it. I have wondered if he refuses it because I have almost demanded it at times over the years.
I just don't understand. He has had several physicals over the past 8 years, and even prior to the accident 3 years ago, and been prescribed AD when he wasn't drinking. This past 3 years with the oxycontin and methadone addictions, it is hard to tell.
But, now, seeing him without any of those drugs is reminding me of the times prior to the accident when he was sober, and how depressed he appeared. IT JUST BAFFLES MY MIND THAT HE WON'T SEEK HELP. He hurt his back, and seems to be in excruciating pain, but won't seek help. I just don't understand. I am having a very hard time detaching from this. We had the one conversation yesterday, so I have stopped myself from getting in deeper, but need encouragement to STAY OUT OF IT. I know my opinion doesn't matter at all. So, why even start a conversation? I hope I can keep my mouth shut.
He got home from rehab Monday afternoon, and hasn't taken a shower or a bath, and it didn't look like he had taken one Monday morning. He knew I needed the car this afternoon and this evening, and didn't make his 12noon meeting. And he won't have a car to go tonight. It's not my problem, but it sure is annoying.
I ALMOST feel like telling, if he doesn't DO SOMETHING about his depression and his back, he can leave. I can't have this grumpy man around. It is almost intolerable. And, I made a new years resolution (someone else did, but I stole it) to not accept the unacceptable this year. So, now I have to determine what is acceptable. Yeah, he stopped drinking and drugging. HIP HIP HOORAY, but so frickin what?!?!?!? I just don't know if I have it in me to live with a grumpy old man. I DON'T LIKE THIS.
I have often thought, "he doesn't get a buzz that's why he refuses to take them." I have wondered about him "admitting he has something wrong with him" contributing to this. But, he has ALWAYS admitted to having a drinking problem. So, I don't know if that is it. I have wondered if he refuses it because I have almost demanded it at times over the years.
I just don't understand. He has had several physicals over the past 8 years, and even prior to the accident 3 years ago, and been prescribed AD when he wasn't drinking. This past 3 years with the oxycontin and methadone addictions, it is hard to tell.
But, now, seeing him without any of those drugs is reminding me of the times prior to the accident when he was sober, and how depressed he appeared. IT JUST BAFFLES MY MIND THAT HE WON'T SEEK HELP. He hurt his back, and seems to be in excruciating pain, but won't seek help. I just don't understand. I am having a very hard time detaching from this. We had the one conversation yesterday, so I have stopped myself from getting in deeper, but need encouragement to STAY OUT OF IT. I know my opinion doesn't matter at all. So, why even start a conversation? I hope I can keep my mouth shut.
He got home from rehab Monday afternoon, and hasn't taken a shower or a bath, and it didn't look like he had taken one Monday morning. He knew I needed the car this afternoon and this evening, and didn't make his 12noon meeting. And he won't have a car to go tonight. It's not my problem, but it sure is annoying.
I ALMOST feel like telling, if he doesn't DO SOMETHING about his depression and his back, he can leave. I can't have this grumpy man around. It is almost intolerable. And, I made a new years resolution (someone else did, but I stole it) to not accept the unacceptable this year. So, now I have to determine what is acceptable. Yeah, he stopped drinking and drugging. HIP HIP HOORAY, but so frickin what?!?!?!? I just don't know if I have it in me to live with a grumpy old man. I DON'T LIKE THIS.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
wraybear, my daughter drug me to the Dr's looking like a bag lady and totally ratted me out, about not eating and all my secrets to the Dr. I got a stern lecture and an order that whether I liked it or not, did I think diabetics liked giving themselves a shot everyday? Kind of like who do you think you are? And you are sick!
A picture's worth a 1000 words
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: With any luck, I'm lost in a view finder
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I agree with what others are saying here. Depression is a real thing and it can have real physical attributes.
If the doc prescribed the AD's then he needs to be on them! Not being on them will make his sobriety that much more miserable. Maybe he knows this? Maybe if he knows he has the excuse of depression then he would be held so accountable when he slips or goes back to the bottle. Just a thought.
I know you can't MAKE him take his pills, but maybe if he had more information about depression then he may want to make the choice for himself?
If the doc prescribed the AD's then he needs to be on them! Not being on them will make his sobriety that much more miserable. Maybe he knows this? Maybe if he knows he has the excuse of depression then he would be held so accountable when he slips or goes back to the bottle. Just a thought.
I know you can't MAKE him take his pills, but maybe if he had more information about depression then he may want to make the choice for himself?
Caring for the 3 little bears
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Oz
Posts: 509
He has all the information in the world about depression. We have been round and round and round about this. He has had doctors explain it. I have a 19 year old who is bipolar, he sees that and accepts that. I just don't know what the HECK is wrong with him. He has complained of a horrible back problem for two weeks but DOES NOTHING ABOUT IT. He is so depressed but DOES NOTHING ABOUT IT.
He has decided to start going to meetings next week. WHAT THE HECK? I just don't know if I can go on living this way. I can't tolerate it anymore. I am ready to go tell him this.
He has decided to start going to meetings next week. WHAT THE HECK? I just don't know if I can go on living this way. I can't tolerate it anymore. I am ready to go tell him this.
Supply Manager
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleaverville
Posts: 2,898
Wray...has he been diagnosed? I think that was what Chy was saying. He needs a clinical diagnosis and until he seeks one out it ain't gonna happen. Same thing with his back pain. Until he takes care of it it isn't going to be taken care of.
Ward has sleep apnea. He could have died in his sleep but until he decided to get it addressed there was not one thing I could do about it. Sure I tried to steer him but I might as well be trying to turn a battleship. They aren't all that manuverable.
Ward, for some reason has to hear things from a source other than me. He learned about addicton from a friend of his who was successful in recovery. That friend never said one thing differently than I did but for whatever reason Ward "heard" him, not me.
Same thing with the apnea...when Reggie White, an athlete died Ward heard that loud and clear.
It is frustrating but we have been married over 20 years and it has always been this way. I am not changing him any time soon.
Hugs,
JT
Ward has sleep apnea. He could have died in his sleep but until he decided to get it addressed there was not one thing I could do about it. Sure I tried to steer him but I might as well be trying to turn a battleship. They aren't all that manuverable.
Ward, for some reason has to hear things from a source other than me. He learned about addicton from a friend of his who was successful in recovery. That friend never said one thing differently than I did but for whatever reason Ward "heard" him, not me.
Same thing with the apnea...when Reggie White, an athlete died Ward heard that loud and clear.
It is frustrating but we have been married over 20 years and it has always been this way. I am not changing him any time soon.
Hugs,
JT
A picture's worth a 1000 words
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: With any luck, I'm lost in a view finder
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JT is right. I am bipolar and have sleep apnea and a slew of other problems and NO ONE could have made me get on meds or on my CPAP machine if I hadn't wanted to.
I think the point here is that you have to learn to live for yourself and not for him. Just because he's depressed, that doesn't mean you have to be. Just because he's stubborn doesn't mean you have to be. It's really is possible to be happy, even when your significant other isn't doing the things we think or want them to do.
A good al-anon program could help you with these issues if your not already attending. If you are then stick with it. Al-anon is what made me start wanting to take care of myself for the first time. It's given me the life I never dreamed possible. And it didn't take very long for me to clue in either.
Good luck and God bless,
Jenna
I think the point here is that you have to learn to live for yourself and not for him. Just because he's depressed, that doesn't mean you have to be. Just because he's stubborn doesn't mean you have to be. It's really is possible to be happy, even when your significant other isn't doing the things we think or want them to do.
A good al-anon program could help you with these issues if your not already attending. If you are then stick with it. Al-anon is what made me start wanting to take care of myself for the first time. It's given me the life I never dreamed possible. And it didn't take very long for me to clue in either.
Good luck and God bless,
Jenna
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