wellthen

Hi--new here! Long-time lurker, first post.

I'm wondering if anyone has any insights as to how realistic another chance is to work after a "rock bottom" situation.

I told my spouse I wanted to separate after many, many incidents that have happened in our marriage. There has been staying out all night, more drunk driving episodes than I can count, missed events due to hangovers. I found out last summer he had lied to me for our entire relationship about occasional hard drug use. He got blackout drunk and let a female friend sleep in our bed when I was traveling. He has failed to return my messages for days at a time while traveling himself. Every date night, he'd send me home alone so he could stay out drinking. And with all of those incidents, turned it around on me and said I was the problem (those conversations were always while he was not under the influence).

I got really really depressed. I contemplated suicide. I take meds now but still don't feel very functional.

I agonized for months about what to do and finally, after our 10-year-old daughter expressed concerns about him, told him I wanted to separate. He told me he got it, there was nothing he wouldn't do to save our family, he was already working on this issue in therapy, etc.

One week later, he got drunk, wrecked his car, lied about what happened for a month (I never actually believed him). This was about 2 months ago.

He's showing signs of change and I am proud of him. He's finally validating my experience. He's acknowledging the hurt he's caused. He's cut back substantially but still has a beer maybe once a week on average. And I'm so, so angry at him. I feel like he crossed some lines that I can't come back from. And I hate myself--it's like, he's finally doing what I needed all those years and I can't trust it and still want out (although I go back and forth on whether that's the right thing to do). I love him, but I'm not sure I'll ever trust or respect him again. I also know a lot of people have it worse, and that gets in my head a bit (like maybe I need to suck it up).

We did marriage counseling a while back--he quit after two sessions, promised to get an individual therapist, and didn't do it for 3 months until I told him I was done. I go to AlAnon (I figured these suggestions would come up).

Any words of advice from those who've been there? He seems so optimistic he can do it and is really trying to win me over again. He's also incredibly sweet and kind when he's sober. It's really hard and I'm miserable.

trailmix

Hi wellthen, glad you decided to post.

You may also want to have a look at the Friends and Family of Alcoholics forum (and post there too of course if you like):

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ly-alcoholics/

There are a couple of new threads there as well, asking this same question.

First things first, you don't need to "suck it up". You are in a bad situation here and I do understand why you are struggling to trust him now.

I think one question might be, why is this all about him and hasn't it always been? Sounds like your life together has centered around his alcoholism. That's no way to build a relationship. You were suicidal and are still having trouble functioning. That's surely enough reason to start looking out for yourself?

I'm sorry he has got himself in to this mess, but that is who he is.

Have you thought of separating, at least for a while? He drinks about one beer a week (that you know of) now, but alcoholics can't maintain moderation, the addiction is too strong for that. Maybe now is the time to look after yourself and your Daughter and let him get himself together (if he chooses to do so). You don't need a front seat for that.

If he can prove his sobriety over, say, a year, maybe you might want to revisit the relationship, but then again, maybe not. The damage is done, it will take a lot of work for him to earn that back and in fact that may never happen.

What do you want? If it's to cut your losses and leave, that might be a wise choice.

wellthen

Thank you for taking the time to read and reply.

You're right that our marriage has centered around his happiness. I enabled him for a very long time. I think I was in pretty deep denial for a really long time.

I've been very clear in the past 18 months about my healthy limits and he's crossed them. I just struggle because he's so NICE when he's not drinking (when he's drunk, he can be one of the biggest a-holes I've ever met). and seems so sincere. I do believe HE thinks he will change. Then again, he seemed nice and sincere when he lied to my face multiple times about wrecking his car. He thinks I owe it to him to do counseling again, and I think I communicated my limits and he crossed them, and also he's the one that quit counseling the first time, when I was really hurting.

I'm also reading codependent no more and recognize that I can't save him from the consequences of his actions. It just feels like I'm punishing him or not believing in him, when in reality, I'm just tired of being angry and mistrustful and feeling like crap.

I'm also afraid of ruining things if I'm wrong about him, but I'm not sure how likely the perfect vision of how things could be is in our case. I read the post about knowing when an A is full of it and several of those points are true for him.

I think you're right--I just need to figure out what I need to heal from this and not worry as much about what he needs. Again, thank you for your reply.

trailmix

Yes, there is a whole minefield of intermittent reward (lots of good articles about that if you google that term).

He can't be trusted, at least you do know that for a fact. Living or really even being in a friendship with someone you can't trust is exhausting. Even if you dismiss the lies and go about your day, it's annoying as heck.

I think what also happens is we distance ourselves from the person, if not physically then emotionally. That's normal and happens naturally when someone keeps hurting us.

The perfect vision of his potential may not be accurate. A couple of things that you might want to keep in mind. He has been living this lifestyle for years (drinking, lying, staying out all night and who knows what else). Even if he was a pillar of the community prior to all that, this way he has been living, that changes a person.

Honestly, he sounds to me like someone who isn't telling the truth, that is trying to toe the line to keep the status quo. If you read around the F and F of alcoholics forum, you will see that played out over and over again.

Time will tell and if you choose to stay, please look out for yourself, let him deal with his alcoholism, only he can help himself with that, it's his call. Proceed with caution, protect yourself, know he is not two people, he is one person with a huge problem.

By the way, you don't owe him anything. You are free to stay or go, as you choose.

VikingGF

Hi, wellthen, I am sorry for what you are going through.

I just want to suggest that if he is drinking "one beer a week" or so in front of you, he is probably drinking secretly. Moderation is essentially impossible for someone who has drinking issues, and it's pretty much a guarantee his drinking will ramp up again after a period of "good behavior." Follow your gut. You don't trust him for a reason.

Wishing the best for you and your daughter.

wellthen

Thank you for your well wishes and your reply. That's definitely a concern I have too. He used cocaine recreationally for years without me knowing it. So there's been a lack of transparency.

One thing I grapple with and I guess the biggest question I have (which I had a tough time articulating before): He says that he'd have gone totally sober and still will if I tell him to. He actually hid his sobriety from me for 3 weeks after his crash (drinking N/A beers all day from a coozie). I have told him I shouldn't have to tell him that (and it's not even my place), and that it puts a lot of responsibility for his sobriety on me. It's basically, "just say the word and I'll stop drinking."

Does that actually work? Do I just need to ask for what I need? He's not in a program, hasn't read books, just seeing a counselor with no specific training in addiction (and I'm not even 100% sure he's doing that). I feel like if it's going to work he needs to take full responsibility but I'm new to all this.

I did tell him that I'd expressed that he needed to do something the week before he wrecked his car. I told him I was in AlAnon and my daughter was starting counseling. And he still got drunk, came home 3 hours late, wrecked his car (still drove home after, BTW).

trailmix

Well, the answer is generally no, as in asking an alcoholic not to drink. But if that is what you want (and honestly complete sobriety can only help here), I would just tell him yes, sobriety, complete sobriety from alcohol and all drugs (notice he said he'd quit drinking, didn't mention other drugs).

There is something missing here I think, something he's not saying, it just doesn't add up.

Also let him know that it's his to make or break, you don't want to be involved in it, sobriety is his thing and you just expect him to take care of it.

Now if that works, all is well. I don't believe he hasn't been drinking and I would be surprised if all the beers were N/A - but who knows, maybe he has changed from a liar to total honesty. Each alcoholics commitment to sobriety takes a different road, some need support, AA, other meetings, alcoholic specific counselling, maybe he isn't one of them, I don't know him so it's hard to say.

You mention you aren't sure if he is actually going to counselling, do they not bill him? Maybe it is covered by insurance?

All of this is an aside to whether you choose to stay with him or not. The damage is done, if you are miserable with him drunk or sober, his swearing off alcohol and other drugs forever just doesn't make a lot of difference.

wellthen

Well that's the other thing--I don't have access to his financial info (stupid and naive of me). There is a general lack of transparency and always has been.

I think the movie version of this story is, he turns into a saint and stays that way. No drinking/drugs, 100% dependable, always there for the kids and me. Even in that dream scenario, I'd have to make peace with the fact that I'd probably never fully know what happened and that this might all happen again. I have generalized anxiety, so that's not likely even if part one were to happen or even come close to it.

He's a very kind person usually, I'm just making myself crazy with the anger and mistrust and hypervigilance and reviewing every time he told me outlandish stories that I now suspect are lies. You are absolutely right. I need to just focus on what I need in a relationship and give myself permission to let go if I'm not confident they're possible in this relationship. I need to accept that he can have two sides but is still one person.

Thank you so much for taking the time to talk this out with me.

trailmix

I don't think that not having access to his financial info is naive, that's probably something that was set up long ago and didn't seem to be an issue at the time.

The anger, mistrust etc is completely normal and you are entitled to those feelings. You don't really know this man. All you have known is someone who drinks all the time, who is the sober person? Is he real? Was his behaviour part of his core personality or more just a drug induced 'thing'. No way of knowing, until a large amount of time has passed with him completely free of drugs.

It's no wonder you have GAD, you have been living in a relationship hell. Drugs, lying, disappearing for days, letting someone else "sleep" in your bed.

Generally, in order for you to trust him, he is going to have to be extra transparent. If he balks at that (like sharing financial info) that would be a good indicator of where he is at.

Again, something doesn't add up here, I don't know what, but I have honestly never read one time on this site where an addict just said OK! done with that, now I'll just be a nice person. Now, of course this could happen! Just law of averages?

One other thing. A person that is addicted to alcohol or any drug, will go through a withdrawal when they stop. Shaking, sweats, unable to sleep, anxiety, depression (etc etc etc - some or all of these things or even others). Has he ever exhibited those signs.

What are your boundaries, what are the deal breakers? That's something to ponder perhaps.