Documentation counterintuitive?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 136
Documentation counterintuitive?
So I’m struggling with the idea of documenting through journals, pictures, videos, receipts, etc.
my attorney recommended it, as well as another poster yesterday.
I understand the need to document for future reference.
im having a hard time how doing this, while important, helps me stay on my side of the street.
tonight for example I’m sitting here combing through home security videos that are trained right on the garage where the alcohol is kept. I’m saving videos in which AW, opens the fridge and grabs a drink. This fridge is for two things, her cakes and alcohol. So it’s getting opened for one or the other, there is no third option.
Just the past 9 days, she went in and came out with alcohol 36 times. Obviously, I can’t be 100% sure, but simple common sense tells me what it is.
I’ve saved these videos in case they’re relevant.
it’s not me trying to control or cure it, but it makes me feel like crap seeing it for my own 2 eyes.
I really don’t know what I’m asking, if anything. Just something that seems counterintuitive to me.
my attorney recommended it, as well as another poster yesterday.
I understand the need to document for future reference.
im having a hard time how doing this, while important, helps me stay on my side of the street.
tonight for example I’m sitting here combing through home security videos that are trained right on the garage where the alcohol is kept. I’m saving videos in which AW, opens the fridge and grabs a drink. This fridge is for two things, her cakes and alcohol. So it’s getting opened for one or the other, there is no third option.
Just the past 9 days, she went in and came out with alcohol 36 times. Obviously, I can’t be 100% sure, but simple common sense tells me what it is.
I’ve saved these videos in case they’re relevant.
it’s not me trying to control or cure it, but it makes me feel like crap seeing it for my own 2 eyes.
I really don’t know what I’m asking, if anything. Just something that seems counterintuitive to me.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Western US
Posts: 9,018
Yeah. Ugh Tim. This can not feel good.
Your situation is beyond my experience so I don't have any advice. I would think keeping your eye on the goal which is the health and happiness of your children and yourself. Also if you can realize that the only hope for your wife may be getting out of her way so that she can hit rock bottom . . . if she has one.
Decades ago a man told me of going to a priest when he realized his wife was alcoholic. The priest was a sober alcoholic and advised, "Throw her naked into the snow. Lock the door and do not listen to her screams". So many years later this still sounds horrible and there is still a truth to it.
I'm so so sorry for what you are going through. I hope someone has some practical advice.
Your situation is beyond my experience so I don't have any advice. I would think keeping your eye on the goal which is the health and happiness of your children and yourself. Also if you can realize that the only hope for your wife may be getting out of her way so that she can hit rock bottom . . . if she has one.
Decades ago a man told me of going to a priest when he realized his wife was alcoholic. The priest was a sober alcoholic and advised, "Throw her naked into the snow. Lock the door and do not listen to her screams". So many years later this still sounds horrible and there is still a truth to it.
I'm so so sorry for what you are going through. I hope someone has some practical advice.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,254
If an attorney advised sadly that might be the best way to go. Documentation is a pain. And make sure you jot down notes if not a full journal with times and what you observed-it's not a novel get right to the point. Dates and times are crucial not just what they did because with dates and time in context it can show a pattern. Hopefully when presented with the evidence they won't bother to pursue action and you get what you want or need out of it.
Good Luck and Stay Safe!
Good Luck and Stay Safe!
sage
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 704
I think there's a difference between keeping a log with notes for court purposes and checking up on everything she says and does (so maybe you don't need to count how many times the door is opened, rather just what has happened in that video) . . .
So yes, scan the video and merely save the relevant ones and log the date and video times, and for what. As far as other entries, merely log what has happened by date, time, and if anyone witnessed it. It will be impossible to rely upon your memory if you are asked to testify about any or all of it, no matter how good you might be under pressure. I know I'm not good under pressure, can't remember what day it is, let alone what happened three days or three weeks ago. This will also give your attorney much better documentation upon which to base your case, and a basis for requests as far as supervised visitation or pre - visitation breath tests, etc.
It might be hard to let it all go, so once you've saved the files and logged everything, find a way to let it go, meditate, exercise, go for a run or swim, find a way to detach from everything you've logged so that you are not carrying any of that with you into the next day.
So yes, scan the video and merely save the relevant ones and log the date and video times, and for what. As far as other entries, merely log what has happened by date, time, and if anyone witnessed it. It will be impossible to rely upon your memory if you are asked to testify about any or all of it, no matter how good you might be under pressure. I know I'm not good under pressure, can't remember what day it is, let alone what happened three days or three weeks ago. This will also give your attorney much better documentation upon which to base your case, and a basis for requests as far as supervised visitation or pre - visitation breath tests, etc.
It might be hard to let it all go, so once you've saved the files and logged everything, find a way to let it go, meditate, exercise, go for a run or swim, find a way to detach from everything you've logged so that you are not carrying any of that with you into the next day.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 316
I did this, although thankfully I never had to use it. It is painful, but just some thing you have to get through for your kids. Try not to obsess over it (I obsessed over it), really all I can say is that you will feel so much better once this part is over. And you are getting there.
The likely way I think something like this would play out is that you just telling her you have this, maybe even showing her your documentation one day (obviously where you have it saved another places) will be enough where she will not even fight you. That is what happened to me. She is going so far down the wrong way that while she may say she will not let the kids go easily, you having all of this documentation and evidence against her and her knowing that may be all you need to save yourself from any kind of court battle.
The likely way I think something like this would play out is that you just telling her you have this, maybe even showing her your documentation one day (obviously where you have it saved another places) will be enough where she will not even fight you. That is what happened to me. She is going so far down the wrong way that while she may say she will not let the kids go easily, you having all of this documentation and evidence against her and her knowing that may be all you need to save yourself from any kind of court battle.
Yield beautiful changes
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: A home filled with love
Posts: 1,699
I’ve been down this path. My attorney recommended that I record conversations with my ex, journal about our encounters, save all text/written communications, and take photos/videos as evidence of his drinking to excess.
It totally sucked. Focusing on his behavior so much was not the healthiest move in my personal recovery. But. It was necessary to protect my child, and THAT gave me peace of mind.
As a previous poster mentioned, my overwhelming pile of evidence was never actually required in court. My EXAH knew that I had proof of his addiction (and refusal to treat it), thus he never fought me for custody. I was granted a divorce and child custody by default. He never responded to the proceedings at all.
I know it is hard to document the destruction of someone you love. But that documentation may very well help save you and your kiddos.
Run, meditate, eat cake, breathe deep, go to Al-Anon, post here, etc…. after you document so that you can release that pain and fixation as much as possible. It is VERY hard to focus on your own faults/flaws/problems when you’re spending so much time recording someone else’s!
You are doing great. This is miserable business.
Take care.
-TC
It totally sucked. Focusing on his behavior so much was not the healthiest move in my personal recovery. But. It was necessary to protect my child, and THAT gave me peace of mind.
As a previous poster mentioned, my overwhelming pile of evidence was never actually required in court. My EXAH knew that I had proof of his addiction (and refusal to treat it), thus he never fought me for custody. I was granted a divorce and child custody by default. He never responded to the proceedings at all.
I know it is hard to document the destruction of someone you love. But that documentation may very well help save you and your kiddos.
Run, meditate, eat cake, breathe deep, go to Al-Anon, post here, etc…. after you document so that you can release that pain and fixation as much as possible. It is VERY hard to focus on your own faults/flaws/problems when you’re spending so much time recording someone else’s!
You are doing great. This is miserable business.
Take care.
-TC
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,653
Yes, that's really what I was going to say. You may never need to use it, I hope you won't have to.
Does it feel creepy and crappy?? I'm sure it does because even when you were just talking about it I found it creepy. But it's not really.
If you actually hated the other person (for some justifiable reason) I can see getting a sense of satisfaction out of it. To prove to a court that your wife is an alcoholic can't feel good, it is counterintuitive to being kind, if nothing else.
But, what choice do you have? None, you have no other choice. This is the only feasible way and if you don't do it, the alternative is 50% custody with no sober monitoring.
I'm sorry you have to though. Perhaps remind yourself, as you review the footage, a scenario where you are living elsewhere (or she is) and this is her behaviour around the kids.
Does it feel creepy and crappy?? I'm sure it does because even when you were just talking about it I found it creepy. But it's not really.
If you actually hated the other person (for some justifiable reason) I can see getting a sense of satisfaction out of it. To prove to a court that your wife is an alcoholic can't feel good, it is counterintuitive to being kind, if nothing else.
But, what choice do you have? None, you have no other choice. This is the only feasible way and if you don't do it, the alternative is 50% custody with no sober monitoring.
I'm sorry you have to though. Perhaps remind yourself, as you review the footage, a scenario where you are living elsewhere (or she is) and this is her behaviour around the kids.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: uk
Posts: 2,428
Yes, it's all so ugly and creepy.
I was advised by the medical team to start recording my alcoholic husband during the last stages of his illness due to the potentially damaging things he would say to protect myself from his financial damage, however he then passed so I didn't have the vileness of actually doing it.
Shudder.
I was advised by the medical team to start recording my alcoholic husband during the last stages of his illness due to the potentially damaging things he would say to protect myself from his financial damage, however he then passed so I didn't have the vileness of actually doing it.
Shudder.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
I think a lot of the Al Anon catch phrases are meant to make life easier in relationships where people cannot leave or have made the decision not to.
She created this mess, Tim. You're just trying to salvage the rest of your life, your kids, and your finances. I think it's even a good thing for you to do, as it also proves to you both just how bad this really is.
Eye on the goal. Separation papers. A life in a peaceful home.
She created this mess, Tim. You're just trying to salvage the rest of your life, your kids, and your finances. I think it's even a good thing for you to do, as it also proves to you both just how bad this really is.
Eye on the goal. Separation papers. A life in a peaceful home.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 46
It does feel so icky, Tim. It goes against what we believe a partnership should be- loving and open. But as you know, you are beyond that and her behavior has brought you to this point. It’s about the kids now, like everyone said. Like trail mix said, the kids will be living with this behavior if you don’t document it.
The videos actually helped my solidify my decision to leave. To see my ex staggering and badgering me in front of our daughter made me sick. Your mind lays tricks on you living with an A but there is no denying a video as proof of the awful situation you’re in.
Stay strong, you can do this.
The videos actually helped my solidify my decision to leave. To see my ex staggering and badgering me in front of our daughter made me sick. Your mind lays tricks on you living with an A but there is no denying a video as proof of the awful situation you’re in.
Stay strong, you can do this.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 565
Wow such great advice and support and understanding from everyone - I hope it helps give you courage and strength in a completely crappy situation. As painful and sickening as it must be to keep careful track of everything, I think it will ultimately help your recovery and might prevent the "maybe it wasn't that bad" feelings of regret or guilt that are so common here.
I didn't need to prove or document my XA's out of control behavior to anyone other than me, but since I did weirdly "forget" over and over how bad it was and I kept giving him another chance (ugh), it helped me immensely to listen to a slurring, ranting, incoherent voicemail that I had saved OVER AND OVER when I was tempted to reach out to him and break no contact. It would have been good evidence in court if I had needed it. And it really kept my eyes open to the reality of the situation when I wanted so desperately to just close them again...
I didn't need to prove or document my XA's out of control behavior to anyone other than me, but since I did weirdly "forget" over and over how bad it was and I kept giving him another chance (ugh), it helped me immensely to listen to a slurring, ranting, incoherent voicemail that I had saved OVER AND OVER when I was tempted to reach out to him and break no contact. It would have been good evidence in court if I had needed it. And it really kept my eyes open to the reality of the situation when I wanted so desperately to just close them again...
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 534
YES to what Spiderweb and SpiderQueen said. I recorded some of our arguments when he was drunk and also kept some voicemails. It still shocks me to listen to his sheer HATRED and cruelty towards me when he was drunk. I have a difficult time listening to them.
They wouldn’t be of any use to me legally—our children are grown, most financial stuff is cut and dry—but when I get worried that divorce isn’t the answer, it helps to hear his ugly, slurring words. And to be fair, it’s shocking to hear the hatefulness I spewed right back towards him.
I also wrote notes concerning our arguments, starting several years ago, because I’m not good at recalling details during fights.
TimJ, I got sober 9 years ago. He didn’t. With hindsight, it would have been better for us if we’d split up then.
I’m so sorry for what you are going through. It resonates deeply with most of us on this side of the forum!
I think you are wise to handle this nightmare now instead of enduring more frustration and heartbreak.
They wouldn’t be of any use to me legally—our children are grown, most financial stuff is cut and dry—but when I get worried that divorce isn’t the answer, it helps to hear his ugly, slurring words. And to be fair, it’s shocking to hear the hatefulness I spewed right back towards him.
I also wrote notes concerning our arguments, starting several years ago, because I’m not good at recalling details during fights.
TimJ, I got sober 9 years ago. He didn’t. With hindsight, it would have been better for us if we’d split up then.
I’m so sorry for what you are going through. It resonates deeply with most of us on this side of the forum!
I think you are wise to handle this nightmare now instead of enduring more frustration and heartbreak.
Last edited by Zevin; 06-06-2022 at 11:09 AM. Reason: Forgot to add SpiderQueen!
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