nikie

Hi,
I'm new here, I live with my AH and have been going to al anon meetings for the last two weeks. The detachment thing was such an eye opener for me and I have changed my attitude a lot already and feel it has made a huge difference in my life.
I have a bit of a problem though with the God/Higher Power thing. Every one in my al anon group is very spiritual/ religious and I have a hard time trying to apply the steps because I don't really believe in a God.
The people I have talked to have suggested several options for a higher power (ie the group, buddha etc.) but they just don't work for me.
I am a very practical person and just can't convince myself no matter how hard I try, it just feels fake. I feel I can't work the steps until I have a clearer picture of who my higher power is , in the meantime I feel a little lost and confused at the meetings. Any help or suggestions would be very much appreciated, i'm getting a little discouraged here.

sweeks

Perhaps it could be your fully recovered self that you are searching for?

frankly

I don't know how to answer that because I fully believe in a higher power. I just feel it in my heart and when I place these things in my higher powers hands I just get a feeling of relief and peace. Maybe calling it fate would help. I mean we can not control what will happen. Or call it the goodness in the world. Or call it the love in your heart. Whatever you can make work for you.

siren

I know what you mean, I am kind of in the same boat. This is my first post here as I was looking for a board that wasn't strictly al-anon. I have been to a few meetings, but I am not comfortable with the whole concept. The only thing I was able to do was to generalize my higher power to be somehow related to fate or destiny. But then I have trouble reconciling that with the concept of free will. I don't know yet, I am too new to it all.

Hopefully, we will all find our way.

jlu

For what it's worth.... my husband has a hard time with God as well (a lot of anger and resentment towards him but that's another story..) Anyway, he chose 3 men (dad, stepdad, and best friend) that passed away as his higher power(s).. his "angels" he calls them. Seems to be working for him.

minnie

Hi guys

I have been going to al-anon for a couple of months now and I had the same problem with the HP idea.

Here's a link to a recent discussion that may shed some light, or at least spark some thoughts.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...t=higher+power

Love

Minnie
xxx

paradox

Early on I used to think of my higher power as my higher self. That part of us that deep down instictively knows what the optimum choices and the destructive choices are. I think we all have that but denial and confusion cause us to lose contact with that part of ourselves.

Ann

For me, God was and is my Higher Power, but not the God I grew up with in religion, but a loving forgiving God who I have grown to trust and with whom my relationship is one-on-one, without any doctrine attached.

I find this Higher Power when I walk the beach, or work in my garden, or in the woods, or see the moon and stars. It is the sense of nature, the universe and a power that keeps the world beautiful and is never ending.

Cap3

Hey nikie,I hear you,although ive never had that experience,about God..I do however understand,when there is something that i just cant bring myself to believe in,and,,others do,and i just dont.All the people can tell me,and share,with me,but it just didnt,convince me.Im talking here about some of the beliefs that i had,had when i was new to recovery programs.The more i struggled the harder it got,. The more i struggled the more confused i was..All i know for sure is that my beliefs then were not working for me,in my life.That much i knew for sure.Thats why i headed for a recovery program.To learn how to change.To learn a different way to live my life.My way wasnt working.Beliefs can change.They are mine,and mine alone.I can open my mind,my heart,and be willing..Thats it for the beginning.To be willing.No judgements.Let go of expectaions.Let go of all of my old dialog.That i was telling myself.And to start living in the principals of the 12 steps.Do the do things.If its hard to work the 12 steps without believing in God,this is what your telling yourself.You own this.You can change this type of thought whenever you want to.Let the program work inside of you.If your stuck.Seek,search,God,yourself.Without making the judement call,im practical,.Being practical,has never helped,me,with the deep hurt,feeling lost,,etc,,etc,,that i have felt during my life.These are spiritual feelings.Im mostly what you cannot see.Spiritual/phyical.You and i cant see thoughts.Feelings.Only can see the results of those.Spritual issues,requires spiritual solutions,i believe.Common sence,then tells me,that there is a spiritual solution.I saw what the others in the rooms had,and i wanted that.Peace,harmony,being able to cope with life ,s issues,without tearing oneself up.I wanted recovery.And was willing to go to any,all lenghts for it.Even to let go of some of my,old beliefs.Once i opened myself to new concepts,the struggle was over.But as long as i held onto some of my old beliefs that were not working in my life,then i was struggling against myself..Remain open..Willing......

equus

nikie,

I keep an open mind as to whether I would try al-anon in the future but the Higher Power thing would probably be one of the biggest things against. Have you seen what else is available in your area? I'm in the UK but recently found there were other means of gaining the support which are less well known.

More than anything I feel odd about anything which asks not to be questioned.

Magichappens

God, or lack of, is a personal thing. The practical tools of Al-Anon work. Realizing that we can't control another (step 1), Believing that we can get better if we use the tools(step 2) Stop fighting to do things our way, and trying new ways to handle our life (step 3) Taking stock of our life and how we may need to change (step 4) Discussing these things with someone who has been through what we have, and seems to have gotten better (step 5) becoming willing to see how we have caused much of our own problems, and maybe we need to try something different ( step 6) beginning to apply the tools to our daily life in the areas that cause us problems (step 7) seeing how our relationships with others can improve (step 8) working to have healthy relationships (step 9) Continuing this process to improve our abilities to use the tools we have received (steps 10 and 11) Sharing what we have learned so that others can find the peace this has given us (step 12).

Whether or not the word God was used, I needed a new way. I needed practical guidance. I needed help. Sifting through the things that I couldn't handle, and finding the things that I could use was essential for me to get better. Nothing in Al-Anon is chiselled in stone. I have had enough of rejecting things that might help because some of the things didn't appeal to me. I take help wherever I find it. Sort of like sifting for gold. There is going to be a lot of dirt before you find a nugget. Remember that Al-Anon tells us to "Take what we like, and leave the rest." Hugs, Magic

Cap3

Hey Magichappens.You say,,remember that al-anon tells us to take what we like and to leave the rest.I have to be honest here.Ive never heard,or even read that,from any litiure from the al-anon program.Ive also never heard that,going to face to face meetings.Now it could very well be there.But ive never seen it,or even heard it.The first time ive ever heard this,is on the recovery message boards.This is true.Ive heard that the recovery programs are "suggested",as a way to recovery..But any sponsor ive had,always asked me to "follow" program.Even the things that i might at the time disagree with.To go to any,all lenghts.Ive found personally,that those who emphise,suggested,,or take what ya want to leave the rest,are simply not willing,to even be open to the 12 steps.What would i take out?When im not even recovered yet?I may just be taking out the very thing,thats going to change me.All the principals are a design for living.All has helped me to change,to grow.and im glad that ive never heard this until i came to the message boards...
Thanks for letting me share,my own experience here,,,

Magichappens

Cap,
That slogan is read in the opening to my home meeting. I agree that we have to become open minded to get recovery. But open mindedness comes in stages. I was one who had to stick my toe in the water before I jumped in. For those who don't believe in God, as they have been taught God is, I have found it is better not to try to force the idea. All those people who had a concept of God that they could live with didn't have to struggle with that.

A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet. I believe that God works through the Al-Anon program. The results are a wonderful gift. But in order to receive the gifts of understanding, peace, and serenity, we have to first take baby steps. "Take what you like" is a way to not pressure ourself to take on too much. I put enough pressure on myself to begin with. The program teaches us to be gentle with ourself. If someone had told me my first meeting that I had to take it all or I wasn't going to be ok, I'd have probably left. Sure there are things that we must face that are difficult, but we have time, and time is a great tool.

Not everyone wants what Al-Anon offers. That is perfectly ok. There are many paths to recovery. But to say that someone should be able to walk in the door open minded and willing to take everything without question or doubt is a big demand. I just wasn't that well. Hugs, Magic

minnie

I agree with you, Magic. If I hadn't read on here about taking what I like and leaving the rest, I would have been in an even bigger mess. I would not have been able to
cope with being so overwhelmed.

What I have found is that by taking what I could identify and what appealed to me at the time, it made me take baby steps which was what I needed. Now, having learned and practiced some of those lessons, I can move on and take something else I like, which I had left in the past. And so the process continues........

Cap3

Hi again,taking baby steps,yea i hear you.Thats why there are 12 steps,taken one after another.When im finished step one i go to two,step 3,etc..When i first went to AA,as i go to both programs,it was an open meeting.Another was sharring what all God had done for him.Well,i just walked out.My cousin who had taken me came out after me.And we talked.This brought up old haunts of others teaching me about God,as he understand God to be..For the first time in years i faced,all the anger,resentments,,and all that "stuff" that i had towards God,and those folks who taught me about God.All those years before,i didnt say anything to anyone about how i felt.For i took what i wanted and wanted to face in life,and certainally left the rest,that i never,ever wanted to deal or face it again.Bam right in my face.What now?There was alot of things in program that i had the same effect about.But now was the time to face my fears,,all that negitive stuff,and take positive action.Nothing is forced in program.And nothing is taken away.From my experience.It took me ages,to get over the God issue,and other things that i had had.But through program and God,all that old stuff,,that was holding be back from having a life was gone.And it was from doing all not just a bit of program.If i go for any course lets say hairstylists.I go there and say,hey im only am going to learn about styling.I dont want to learn about the theory to my teachers.And i will only do half of the goverment exam...Im at it again.Old habbit.My way.....just gotta be MY way,,or im just not gonna do it...I guess i was so desperate to get well,for recovery,this alone ,got me to going,with program,as it is set out.Got sick of myself,and i wont do this that,,blah,,blah,,lol..Take what you want to,Leave the rest..encourges me to stay the way i am.Why even bother to go to program,to just take out,things.There are so many paths to recovery.that i dont need my ego to take things out of the Al-anon program,or any other program.The steps are written and ya can say in stone.For they havent changed.Of course,ive heard people do what to change the steps,and the wording in them.,at meeting..
Anyways thanks Magichappens for sharring that...solgan?Not in the Books.There must have been a reason that ive never heard it.or seen it...Intersting.Maybe i was/am blocking it out or didnt notice...hmmmm.Ive heard that in AA not sure if its also applies to al-anon that recovery numbers have done down dractictly in the last few years.Wonder if its because those who are taking what they want to and leaving the rest,is what its about?..Thanks again,,
Take care,,,

Magichappens

It seems to have worked very well for me. I have also seen it in One Day At a Time In Al-Anon. Sorry that you don't like it. You don't have to take it. Hugs, Magic

Magichappens

"How Al-Anon Works For Families And Friends of Alcoholics" Page 381
"Courage to Change" Pages117,321

Magichappens

The official closing for Al-Anon meetings, as laid out by World Services:
"In closing, I would like to say that the opinions expressed here were strictly those of the person who gave them. Take what you like, and leave the rest."
Page 156, Al-Anon Family Groups, Classic Edition

JT

We also used that in the opening to my meetings. I take it to mean personalities more than the program or the steps. When you are sitting at a table of 2 or 20 there are bound to be things said, or approaches to the steps or slogans that don't fit for me.
There is also something at each and every meeting that is going to be said that I will want to take home.

I didn't start recovery with an open mind and if I hadn't been told that I that it was ok not to agree with everything I may not have stayed. I picked a sponsor by choosing someone who had what I wanted...that leaves some people who didn't. Out of the 20 at the table there are going to 6 or 8 takes on the topic and how it applies in her life today. There will also be alot of nodding. People bring different things into a meeting. What is so wrong in taking different things home?

That being said Cap...when I arrived in the rooms I was a very desperate person and I simply did what I was told. I had no God in my life at the time, but when they told me to pray...I prayed. I felt silly but I did it anyway because "they" said it would help. I was willing to go to any length. Today I have a God in my life and a faith that is my comfort.

Working the steps is a process, we don't do it one time and then we are done. Something we may have "left" the first time around is going to be absorbed the 2nd or the 3rd. At least that has been my experience in my 10+ years.

((Hugs))
JT

Magichappens

Page 117 April 26 Courage to Change:
The most important words many of us hear when we first come to Al-Anon are, "Take what you like and leave the rest." Everything about our program is suggested, not required. This gives us the freedom to pick and choose. If we disagree with something, we don't have to use it. If we are not ready to use a Step, slogan or tool, we are free to wait.

Many of us need time to come to terms with the spiritual nature of the Al-Anon program. If we were required to believe in a Higher Power in order to participate in Al-Anon, we might never have continued to attend meetings. Eventually, Many of us do come to believe in a Higher Power because we are free to come to our own understanding in our own time. That way, whatever we learn will have maning for us.

When we take what we like and leave the rest, we give ourselves permission to challenge new ideas, to make decisions for ourselves, and even to change our minds.

Today's reminder
Because I am able to use whatever I find helpful and leave the rest, I can benefit from the experience, strength, and hope of others and still follow my own heart.

"With the help of this program and my Higher Power, I take charge of fashiioning, shaping, choosing what kind of life I will have." "In All Our Affairs"