Cadence57

OK, my ex A b/f "quit drinking" (in quotes because we are currently 1500 miles apart and without evidence to the contrary, I have to trust this to be true). He emailed me and said that he's going to dinner with a co-worker. In my reply I asked him if he had a plan, he's tried quitting in the past and failed. Male bonding and beer seem to go hand in hand and I know having a beer would be a temptation. Well, he took offense - said I insulted him. Then he said:
Truthfully? No, I don't think he has a plan. I also know if he keeps doing what he's been doing, he's going to continue to get the same results. AND, I know that it's not my problem. But how do I address his assertion that he quit and resumed because he wanted to... I mean, that's just plain old quacking, isn't it? Yes, he did quit (6mos.- a "long time" in his eyes) and he did resume and the problems resumed as well.

I'm still so new at this and the distance between us makes this so much more difficult. I could handle my parents' alcohol abuse -- it was a lot easier to detach from them... but this - this is different... I guess because romantic relationships are about the future, where parental relationships are more about the past (childhood).

I should add that I am trying to be supportive. I'm trying to encourage him but I guess I don't know HOW to do that and my attempts are taken as insults to his sensibilities or something.

Truth

Have u ever gone to an al anon meeting? i just started but i feel they are helping me already. Your ex has to want to change. you can't control him and u didn't cause his behavior and u cannot cure his behavior. Right now it might be helpful for you to focus on yourself.
also in regards to romantic relationships- we tend to get into relationships that mimic our relationships that we're comfortable in, which are the ones we had with our parents. That is why they are so hard to let go of. I am trying to work through some of this stuff myself too.

Magichappens

Marti,
Quack Quack, Boo hoo. I haven't found an alcoholic yet who can't rationalize and convince themself ( and us) that what they are doing makes sense. How dare we question anything they say. I have learned that whenever Mr Magic makes a decision, whether rational or not, it is his responsibility. I tell him it's up to him to make decisions about his life, and he can do what he thinks is best. I, on the other hand, have to make decisions that are based on my best interest, and will do that.

If he goes off in a direction that is detrimental to me, I have the ability to take care of me today. He has the right to make whatever decisions he wants, and the ability to deal with whatever those decisions bring. I will tell him how I feel, but I also tell him that my opinion in no way should be taken as manipulation. Only how I feel. He can do with it as he pleases.

You have a right to tell him how you feel. He has a right to do what he thinks is best for him. Hopefully, he does the right thing. But if not, that is his right too. If he tries it, and it doesn't work, oh well. Live and learn. Just take care of you. Keep seeking support and it will work out like it is supposed to. Hugs, Magic

smoke gets in my eyes

Hi Cadence.

It's very confusing at first. We want to "be supportive" of the person we love but we wind up trying to monitor their recovery. I did it too. I sent literature. I tried to get Dino to join this site. Blah-di-blah. I wanted to help. It took a long time for it to sink in. Dino might very well be better off if I could control him. But I can't. So the trick becomes being supportive of all the good things he has become- praising the results rather than monitoring the process.

It's so nice to be able to rely on you.
How is the job going?
You're looking really fit.
You seem so confident.
Here... you're competent... figure this out for me.

Yeh, it's still controlling because it's still manipulation. We tell them how great they're doing because we want them to want to keep hearing it. But all forms of courtesy are little manipulations and it feels a whole lot better on the other end to be "encouraged" with praise rather than insinuating queries. And it also relieves us of trying to be omniscient. We can never get inside someones head. We can never know how their recovery is reeeeeeally going. But results are a thing we can see and evaluate. Fair game!

Great topic!

Hugs,
Smoke

Chy

Great post Smoke!

Cadence57

Hi Truth,
Yes, I've recently started attending Alanon (just 2 meetings so far) and, yes, I have found it to be helpful so far.
I'm painfully aware of how our romantic relationships mimic our relationships with our parents -- I actually thought I was moving away from that issue, only to find out (7 months into the relationship) that he is an alcoholic... Water seeks its own level...
Thanks!

Cadence57

Rationalization... yes. That's what he's doing, he's rationalizing his alcohol abuse... drinking because he chose to. Slowly but surely I'm beginning to understand the mentality of it all. It's not easy because there is no logic involved (I mean, why would someone who has had SO many problems with alcohol choose to pick it back up after quitting???). I'm still fighting this, I can tell - I'm still trying to make sense of something that makes no sense. Ah, can't wait til the next meeting!!


Like you, I know I can take care of myself if his efforts to quit fail and he chooses to drink again. The miles between us make it a little easier to accept. I'm pretty clear with him about how I feel - I think that's one of the reasons he decided to quit this time. This site has been a God-send to me (as well as countless others, no doubt) and I can't wait to go to my next Alanon meeting - I really need it!

Thanks Magic!
Marti

Cadence57

Hi Smoke,
Thanks for the great advice. He just quit earlier this week. I can't wait for the day when I can tell him how nice it is to be able to rely on him... I can't wait. One of our biggest problems is the fact that the only thing I can count on, is that I can't count on him... not to keep promises, or follow through, or do what he says or... or... or... it makes trusting this whole "quitting thing" kinda difficult, but until he proves otherwise, I will trust him.
It is very hard to be supportive without monitoring - or appearing to be monitoring him - I guess it's a fine line. LOL I've sent him some of the great affirmations from this site and, yes, I'd love for him to join SR and take advantage of the wonderful support and advice here. I really do believe that it makes a HUGE difference.

I do believe that, if he really is not drinking, I should be able to see some difference in him... more than just not being drunk... at least I hope so!

OK, I'm going to try to maintain a positive attitude and keep my nose out of his business. Positive reinforcement - just like I did with my kids when they were little. I'm also going to try to not take things so personally - I'll probably save myself a lot of hurt and heartache that way.

Thanks!
Marti

DesertEyes

Hey Marti :-)

You know, one think I have learned here is that it's ok not to be perfect :-) I don't have to be perfect Al-Anon 100% fully recovered overnight. I'd like to be, but I'm not. Me thinks you're doing just fine over there, doing exactly what's right for you at the speed that's best for you.

I'm praying for ya :-)

Mike :-)

Cadence57

Thanks Mike!
I must admit to being a perfectionist - I try to the perfect girlfriend, responding perfectly with exactly the right words... I suppose that'd be boring if it was even do-able... I guess I just want to say and do the *right* thing. I emailed him tonight and told him that I'm keeping my nose out of his business. He made mention of the fact that I've never "been there" and because of that, he finds "words of wisdom" from me to be annoying -- and I can understand that so... I'm going to tend my own garden and let him worry about his. I think it's the best thing to do.
Marti

myselfagain

Why are you even bothering to try to salvage this relationship?????????
So you want to be where a lot of these folks are in 5 10 15 years, wondering if this is the day that he starts drinking again.............
WHY DO THIS TO YOURSELF???????????????????????????????????
He has moved 1500 miles away from he so he can do what he wants to do w/o YOU bothering him. Learn from this mistake and go on with your life.
Just my 2 cents................

Magichappens

myselfagain,
"Many people find contentment and even happiness, whether the alcoholic is still drinking or not." Al-Anon has taught me that it is ok to love alcoholics. That wasn't the problem. The problem was that I didn't know how to love me.

Some people stay in their relationships. They find that there is enough good there to make it worthwhile. Some leave. Whatever people decide to do, they can recover and heal. Those who have found that inner peace support others to do the same. I am forever grateful that I wasn't judged for wanting to make it work. Those who hadn't lived it gave me advice. Those who had lived it gave me support. Finding a place where no one judged me for loving an alcoholic was a very healing thing. Hugs, Magic

Cadence57

I ask myself the same questions and it all boils down to what we have when he's NOT drinking. As it stands, we are not back together. But if he stays sober, and if he gets help, then perhaps we can work it out. I'm willing to give him that chance if he's willing to work for it. In the meantime I'm doing my thing and I am learning to take care of me. I'm trying hard not to worry or plan any further into the future than tonight's meal.

As far as the move is concerned, he moved because that's where the work is - he's in the tropics (paradise from the sounds of it), the work conditions are excellent, the money and benefits are excellent and I pushed him (hard) to go for it. I'm thinking it was a good move (for a lot of reasons).

In the meantime, like I said, I'm still taking care of myself (or learning to, actually). We're "friends," and I still love him but I'm not putting my life on hold for him again. *THIS* has actually been another "growth" in that I'm learning to be supportive without being manipulating, or prying, or monitoring his progress - it's another lesson in "letting go" and it's one I need to learn.

Marti

Cadence57

Great post, Magic!
I'm working on loving myself. I was brought up to believe that it's "bad" to love yourself... it's self-centered and egotistical... I remember my mother snearing over some actress on TV (who was obviously very impressed with herself) and saying something to the effect of "Boy, she really loves herself, she thinks she's hot stuff" - like it was a bad thing... I know now that there is a difference between loving yourself and being egocentric, but it's still difficult to override those subtle early messages.
Marti

DesertEyes

Definetly me. The perfect husband, perfect dad, perfect friend. But always perfect for somebody else, I never learned that I was supposed to be a friend to _me_.

Yup. That's my illusion too. My codie brain hallucinates that there exists a "right thing to say, or do". I have learned that there is no such "right thing" in the real world. What I'm supposed to say is the "_true_ thing". I'm supposed to say what I _truly_ feel, truly need, truly believe. Once I have spoken the truth then it's up to the other person to choose how they accept my truth.

'course, it helps if I have a clue what I truly feel :-)

"Right or wrong" is what frightened children pursue in an attempt to avoid the pain of an abusive parent, it's how I used to try and manipulate my parents into not hurting me. Now that I am an adult I find that my ACA issues blind me to the truth of my own needs, and so I gravitate towards people that will treat me in ways similar to the way my parents treated me as a child. I allow myself back into a situation where "right or wrong" manipulations are a necesary form of survival.

I understand completely. When my A is out of her disease she's a wonderful, loving, kind person unlike any other I have ever known. If she were willing to work on her own disease, and willing to work _with_ me on our common issues, I'd take her back in a minute. It's her _disease_ I cannot live with, not her self.

I stayed with her the last five years, even though they were emotionally and physically exhausting (to the point that I literally made myself sick) I was not ready to leave. If I had tried I would have been plauged with guilt and regrets. I didn't know enough about _me_ and my own needs to make that step.

Way cool :-) I think you're a little ahead of me there, I'm not doing quite as good at detaching or caring for me. But I'm making progress :-)

Mike :-)

Cadence57

I'm working on being my own best friend. It occurred to me that, if I treated others the way I sometimes treat myself, I'd have no friends whatsoever! Pretty sad.


Yeah, there's that! I've got a magnet full of different smiley faces to convey different moods and feelings - sometimes I look at that to help me pinpoint what I'm feeling. I never put that right thing vs true thing together - you're so right, it's one of those leftover things from growing up with alcoholics.


Yes, that's it exactly. It's not him I can't live with, it's the disease. Been there / done that... never again.

No, I'm not ahead of you, I'm struggling (constantly). It's just a little easier to be detached when there's 1500 miles separating us! It's a good thing, I can't control and I can't manipulate and I can't monitor - I accept those facts and I think I have finally accepted my powerlessness and now I am giving him the freedom to make his decisions (and mistakes) without trying to influence him. Doing those things (or NOT doing them) is part of how I'm taking care of myself... if I'm not trying to influence him, then the pressure is OFF of me - it's out of my hands and that's quite OK; I don't want to be responsible for his choices, his consequences or his life - I have enough trouble taking care of myself!! I'm also taking advantage of this time and distance to do things I enjoy doing.

Marti

DesertEyes

hmmm... hadn't looked at it that way. I like that, I'll have to start using that concept as a guide.

I used to have one of those, I'll have to dig it out.

* lol * Your HP must love you a lot, to go to all the trouble of moving him 1500 miles so you have a little more space for yourself. Perhaps my HP is doing the same for me, by forcing us to separate it may, in the long run, be the best for both of us over here.

Good for you! That's excellent.

* lol * Yup, me too. Gotta keep working on taking care of me :-)

Mike :-)
* waves at Laz *