Epictetus

I hope this doesn't trigger anyone, but if I don't ask if anyone has experienced this than how can I overcome it.

This has happened too many times. I'm feeling fine. I'm feeling rational and i know what I have to do. I'm feeling rational. I can see the problems of my life and I can see the potential solutions. And I put plans in place and then I take action. And everything is good. Then it comes.

Terrential thoughts of darkness. of life has no meaning. Of feeling insignificant. unloved. unwanted. horrible bloody thoughts that come in my sleep. I don't ask for these thoughts.

and then if life is not worth living. why not be comforted by insert substance (note: I don't want these thouthts nor the substances)

anyone similar and how to get through

Anna

I used to have very negative thoughts of feeling worthless, and that there was no purpose to my life. I was depressed and it did ultimately lead me to drinking, which of course, made things worse.

For me, antidepressants help. I think you are in early recovery and that's a very emotional time. Hopefully those feelings will ease up soon. If not, or if they become too much, do talk to your dr.

january161992

the tool God gives us to think about ourselves less and about others more is called service

when we are helping others we are thinking about our (perceived) problems less

helping others (being of service) is the #1 contributor to my intact sobriety date!

saoutchik

That is the way that you, me and i'm sure many others often see life - as a series of obstacles to be overcome.

Perhaps this outlook is the problem in as much as we see a bunch of issues or obstacles and adopt the view that if they can be overcome we will, maybe not achieve personal nirvana but at least arrive at some pleasurable and satisfying state of mind.

In real life of course this is never achieved as issues tend to be ongoing and new issues or new events occur all the time.

Proponents of mindfulness suggest that we live more in the moment and that we should try to take pleasure or satisfaction from being on life's journey for its own sake. That sounds logical to me although it's not a state of mind that I have come close to attaining - something to consider though maybe.

That said, if you are experiencing these dark thoughts regularly then I would really recommend that you speak to your doctor about it to try and get some professional help or prescription.

Epictetus

I wish I could find a doctor that would actually listen. Or perhaps I don't open up enough. It's really strange but I fantazize or daydream about being able to open up to someone and that person actually listening and getting to the bottom of the matter. I reckon that whatever is at the bottom of "this" is the solution to long term sobriety and "happiness" (long life even).

Probably sounds silly as rationally accepting that alcohol (alcoholism and being an alcoholic) is the major answer to the puzzle of my life and leading a sober life is the key to solving that puzzle seems the most rational (meaning? motivation? answer?) driving force to keep going......yet......

....that early morning....sudden......death chill.......feeling of aloneness and I don't what......that just arrives out of now where....usually in the middle of the night or early morning upon rising........

.just sudden dread. And that sudden thought. Crushing. and the thoughts of why not alcohol... even though in that moment I am so grateful to wakeup sober and with energy and peace of mind.

I bloody hate it and can't explain it. And I even feel so guilty as I don't really have anything to feel bad about. so many other people have it so much worse

least

My depression got better after I got sober, and I think that was because my antiD's work as they should now. It did no good to take them if I was drinking a depressant all the time.

What I had to force myself to do was to appreciate my own worth. It's hard sometimes, but I would call on my close friends and family to encourage me. I had to remind myself that I mattered to my friends and family, even if I didn't matter to myself.

I am so grateful to my shrink for putting me on sertraline all those years ago. It levels the playing field for me and makes a huge difference in my attitude.

I hope you'll make use of our support to help you feel better about yourself.

Epictetus

I totally agree with what you have written.

As strange as it may seem, I would never go through with what the dark thoughts say, as if it comes to that why not give myself totally to religion/enlightenment/alturisum? (and from a selfish point of view: the dream trip of backpacking in South America for a minimum of one year).

Oddly, AA never really interested me (well, I never really looked at/I don't know). I thought you can just quite and improve the hell out of all areas of your life (work on goal/elevate yourself) and then I had the strangest damn dream about being in an AA meeting and I don't know what the hell was going (can never make head nor tail of my dreams) but it seemed that I was long term and helping someone. I woke thinking damn I think I have to say that I am (alcoholic!!!!!). Weird that I hate saying yet it sounds liberating.

maybe that's the meaning.

Dee74

that was a really hard cycle for me. I wanted help but I was scared of opening up completely because 1) I was terrified I'd be put away or drugged up to the eyeballs, and 2) shame and pride, and 3) because no one had really helped me/understood me up to that point.

I had no choice but not to drink in the end because drinking would demonstrably end in my death.

So I didn't drink.

I got a little help from counselling but it was mainly the not drinking that helped me get to a point of dealing with old demons and ultimately having a full and serene life.

I believe you can get there too Epictetus

Its hard to have good mental health when you're poisoning yourself on a regular basis.

D

Epictetus

I reckon it's a good start speaking (writing) about it here. I think I'm recognising a pattern and acting before a tragic consequence: I put on a brave face, go on the sober path, then don't say anything when the dark thoughts come. I see that usually it's an excuse (am I being hard saying excuse or not?) well an excuse or a reason or a trigger I don't know....but usually all my rational thinking is overwhelmed and bang I think....what's the point?

And the subterranean death wish. Definately the stumbling block.

ThatWasTheOldMe

I wanted to kill myself when I couldn't stop drinking. It's because alcohol is a depressant. If you have those thoughts when you're sober, you should check yourself into an ER.

When you're sober, all of your thoughts change. You can take care of yourself. You can live. You can be happy. Alcohol destroys your brain chemistry.

ThatWasTheOldMe

It is absolutely the most amazing thing I've ever done for myself - getting sober.

HTown

i was suicidal while drinking. now, a few years sober it never enters my mind. no more guilt or shame. just a lot of inner pride and more self-worth.

i too try to be mindful each day and for a time I was on an anti depressant as well. my regular doctor gave it to me. i also did some cognitive behavior therapy which taught me to reframe things. very often writing out things on paper helps. you might want to consider a gratitude list and also write down these dread feelings. what are you afraid of? is it death itself, well there is no escape for anyone there.
is it a wasted life or life unlived? you will never escape those feelings while drinking, but you can make goals and attain them living a sober life. good luck

AnvilheadII

the relief tat sobriety offers does not come in the first 12 hours after the last drink. it's takes time. for most, the changes are gradual. 8 days, 2 weeks, a couple months - that is not the end goal. recovery is a process, not a once and done. along the way the course is going to be bumpy - it's like having one of those lingering chest colds - you start to feel better, than not so much, then better, then a little setback.

if over time, we do not feel markedly improved, then we definitely need to see a doctor. we can write down our concerns on a piece of paper and take it with us to the appointment. we'll see a nurse or technician first, to take our vitals, we make sure they record our concerns. we can hand the paper over to the doctor and ask that it be recorded into our chart. but we don't also include a list of medications that WE think WE need. doctors are resistant to anything that appears like med shopping. we are honest, and we ask for help.

Epictetus

When I heard people say "Death, insanity, jail" it sounded like they were just repeating a tired expression.

I can now 100 % agree with those that say it's progressive and every relapse it gets worse. I considered strongly the river when I was in the belly of the beast (alcohol/drugs) and felt I couldn't climb out of it. I have climbed out of it several times and yes it does get worse each descent. When you think you've hit the bottom and you could never experience anything worse, there is another waiting for you that you never could have imagined. There is a hell worse than the worse hell we have experienced. I could never have imagined how sinister and dark this could get to. There is no end to this pit.

What worries me is thinking I have an underlying death wish rather than a direct suicidal wish.

Between sobriety and addiction there is no comparison. The last five years I have experience more time sober than time trapped in addiction. but why each fall? everthing seems to go great and then boom. something. I look at my partner interacting with her family and the following morning I wake up feeling empty, like I have no support. My family are not close. Well I am no close to them. Too many bad decisions. Isolating myself to protect myself. Isolating myself believing they were/are toxic. then trying to reach out and making a mess of it/or overdoing it and feeling weird about it after.

parents close to death and the family will part.

younger brother's life crumbling to pieces and I feel responable as I didn't do enough. Even though I tried. I remember a kid saying to my brother damn I wish my older brother was like that (my brother told me) as I took him to concerts and tried to spend time with him as the old man did nothing but cause stress. yet I am still haunted by guilt and nightmares that I didn't do enough for him.

This is the sort of crap that has made me fall before. hopefully it's better to write it here rather than keep it in and then finally drink.

apologies for negative post

least

You can always vent your feelings here.

Early recovery can indeed be a rough ride, but little by little, it does get better.

Epictetus

Thank you Least.

Thank you all.

Too often burying everything under the carpet.

Very much appreciated all of your replies.

Guener

I have always been in a fairly lonely place, feeling different from those around me, persistent thoughts of death since I was young. And then alcohol covered those feelings up for a long time. Even in recovery I wonder what I would do if I had a serious illness like cancer, would I submit to treatment ...

My family is largely broken apart and progressing further down that road after the death of my father, my mother at an advanced age, and I am not close to my half-sisters and brother. That type of support, family, is largely unavailable to me, and I have no strong interest in trying to build upon what does happen to be there. It is decidedly strange compared to what I see in others' close circles.

My depression and anxiety are largely subsided by medication, therapy, and through my own mental practices. Sobriety is a huge factor in being able to deal with these factors for me now. Drinking no longer brings any form of respite from my other problems in any way.

I've done some jail time, felt like I was hopelessly incurable, and contemplated in an active way suicide, all in my past.

The question for me lies in finding things worth living for today. I see my vocation as a form of service, am lucky to be in such a job, and it brings meaning into a significant part of my life. Still, I know I need to do more to pursue happiness in broad forms that will encourage my desire for living the way that does give me a sense of place and of positive self-image. I have been struggling to do these things for decades but with less clarity than I have now in sober living.

It doesn't occur to me that there will be a psychic leap into finding a space where I am well defined in how I see things for myself, but I do try to work on it some each day. It is imperfect but takes me forward, bit by bit. I am no longer in a deep well or paralyzed at moments through anxiety, thanks to what I do now, repetitively.

Self-sabotage was a big player in my former strategy of continuing my addiction. I have to be aware of it as a threat when my AV comes up and when I am faced with challenges that seem unfair or prompt feelings of "screw this life". Addiction is highly persistent for me in the way that it works against doing all of this work for myself and for the sake of me being a contributor in my community. It really is a day at a time for me, still.

Early recovery is full of very difficult emotions and pulls, confusion and moments of wonderment for me. I really don't know if I could go through a relapse and come out alive or not. So, I try to foster my motivation and probably need to take better account of what I am grateful for now. There are outside things to address and internal goals that are going to take years for me to set straight, and that can seem overwhelming. All I can do is chip away at things and try not to see myself as somebody doing hard labor forever, it's a far better thing that I do.

gettingsmarter

I would like to add that there is nothing wrong with taking antidepressants. I fought my doctor for years over it. I finally gave in after about 2 years of sobriety. Getting sober made a huge difference but I would still get very depressed and think things would never get better.
Long story short they probably saved my life. They gave me kind of a life vest long enough to learn to walk again emotionally.