Pressmetilihurt

Hi everyone,

FreeOwl

tomsteve

good questions,press. something the BB addresses:
Lack of power, that was our dilemma. We had to find a power by which we could live, and it had to be a Power greater than ourselves. Obviously. But where and how were we to find this Power?

Well, that's exactly what this book is about. Its main object is to enable you to find a Power greater than yourself which will solve your problem. That means we have written a book which we believe to be spiritual as well as moral.

you can develop a relationship by working the steps.
notice step 12 says-having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps...
by working the steps, we feel our HP at work and have developed a relationship with him/her/it.

something else from the BB:
We needed to ask ourselves but one short question. "Do I now believe, or am I even willing to believe, that there is a Power greater than myself?
do you believe there is a power greater than you?

thomas11

In 2015 I started on a quest for the truth. The truth about many different things because as I thought of what we've been told or taught is often not true, or misleading. I believe this is by design because knowledge is power. One of the subjects I researched was a higher power/god whatever you choose to call it. I came to the conclusion that there is no way we exist by mere happenstance. We are here for a reason and with a purpose. I could go on and on, but that's the gist of it.

sugarbear1

First, you are being cared for, so when you work through step 4 you know you will be okay. Then we continue to move forward with the rest of the steps....

Meditation helps, but in my early sobriety, I couldn't sit still for a minute let alone 20! Baby steps......

MindfulMan

I got sober without developing a relationship with God, and I'm a hardcore agnostic. When I tried 12 Step I couldn't name and give myself to a higher power. It felt completely foreign and inauthentic to me. I used other groups and methods instead. TPCH I owned my alcoholism, looked at the data and saw that the odds were nearly 100% that if I took a sip of alcohol (or line or whatever) I would be back in rehab at some later date. So I resolved to never drink again, and I've stuck to it. Once I took it off the table, I pretty much lost all cravings for it.

Not to say that any of this needs to apply to you, 12 Step has worked miracles for many. But finding your higher power and focusing on God is not essential for recovery for everyone, and it's often presented that way in various recovery situations. Neither is 12 Step for that matter. But have a sobriety plan and follow it.

I just couldn't force a square peg in a round hole.

entropy1964

I was actually thinking about some of this today while talking to a 'friend' who is struggling with recovery. The whole black and white concept that my abstinence is contingent on anything. For me, its really not.

Like Mindful I simply can't have faith in God or a higher power. And I have tried over and over with no success.

I'm not saying that one shouldn't try to connect with God or the spiritual if that is in you to do. But I think completely believing that if one doesn't have a spiritual transformation that person is doomed to fail is folly.

I can stay sober no matter what. If the divine finds me in the process, cool. If not my abstinence is contingent on one thing: Not Drinking.

WeThinkNot

Wow that's a heavy question.

I've always believed there is a God and another plane that is beyond the mortal realm. During my sobriety I've questioned whether God saved me because I stopped drinking out of the blue. There were so many bad consequences due to my drinking over a long period of time and I didn't think anything would make me stop. Then one evening I decided I was done and my compulsions were gone.

Did God save me? That occupies my thoughts frequently when I do my morning meditations. I see members on SR that joined ten years ago or longer that still struggle with sobriety. Then I wonder if God saved me, why doesn't He save the others?

I guess the first step would be to find some quiet time to meditate. Dig deep and ask yourself if you believe there is something greater or if this is ultimately all meaningless.

D122y

Press,

All I really know that is when I pray the Lords Prayer or Hail Mary's I feel strengthened and content.

The Lords Prayer is the go to prayer for all occasions.

It is a mystery about God and the whole religion thing in general, but I want to stay super clean by any means.

I pray constantly and go to church almost never. I give people as much help as I can all the time. I do my best and anything more would be flailing. Think trying to swim better...a person can only swim as good as they can...anything else is not going to get them anywhere.

I studied the words of the Lords Prayer and, mysteriously, I was saved. This is the mystery of faith.

Thanks.

Aellyce

Don't know about God, but the HP I think it can be taken as a completely practical thing if you are so inclined, and it sounds like that's what you already have there. A form of treatment that requires external "power" to be effective, similar to a doctor. The fact that getting and staying sober requires very dramatic life changes that are hard (or impossible) to implement merely using our own known resources. Accepting external guidance and wisdom from others who have a great deal of experience and success. I am not an AAer but used bits of that method and what I wrote was my own version for myself. It seems to be working.

Mango212

I ask for "eyes to see, ears to hear and strength to embrace the illogical."

I challenge God/Higher Power to show up in my life. To say "show me!" and ask for eyes to see it. I say "Thank you" often. Before and after recognizing anything more going on.

This works for me. I started out by doing this many times a day for two weeks. What I got out of it kept me curious.

Connecting with some kind of "greater than self" seems to be a natural occurance I see happen often. One day at a time. It's a journey.

Mango212

A God acronym I like is "Good Obvious Direction".

As I learn to listen to my healthy inner voice and cultivate it, this gets easier.

columbus

Surrender.

Surrender to accept.

Gottalife

Step one is identifying the problem, step two selecting the spiritual path as an option for recovery, step three is a decision to put that selection into effect, steps four to nine put that decision into effect, steps ten to twelve are the twenty four hour way of life through which we can continue to grow spiritually.

The spiritual awakening resulting from this course of action is explained in appendix ii, and is described in the program as often being felt from the point at which a sincere step three is made. For me it was dramatically revealed after step 5, steps nine and ten also have amazing promises attached.

You could also read William James' Varieties of Religious Experience, which covers the subject in great depth in work he did well before AA existed. His ideas form part of the basis of the AA program.

Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr also contains a lot of useful information and an interesting perspective on the AA program.

I eventually abandoned the concept of a "shopping list" God whose job was to fix everything I thought was wrong in the world. Trying to get Him to do my will didn't seem to work. Now I seek a "God directed life" where through prayer and meditaion I look for and receive inspiration and quidance on how to play my part in life.

I have a few examples where tragedy and malevolence have struck, and by drawing on His strength and guidance has enabled me to come through not only without the need to drink, but having done the things that a normal sane person would do, like taking care of the people who depend upon me. As one member put it, "the Higher Power was on deck to see me through".

All my experience with the God of my understanding came as the result of the steps. I took the action required on faith that something might come of it. After the action came the experience upon which my faith is built.

DriGuy

Good question. I suppose it means a lot of different things, so many different things, often with so many different assigned attributes that it loses any meaning, except at an individual level. A god is what is implied. If you don't believe in a god, do you need to find another higher power, and what would that be?

Most of the AA membership believes it is essential to rely on a higher power, although in brief moments of honesty, Wilson allows for other possibilities, but he seems to mention this begrudgingly. He clearly thinks/wants alcoholics to adopt a higher power of a spiritual god type nature.

Is the group a higher power? I suppose you can designate the group as such, but by common definitions, the group is not a god. More importantly is it essential to have a higher power? The group is helpful, and for me it seemed essential, so I afford it some honorary credit, but to call it a higher power, doesn't really achieve what Wilson intends. To me the group can provide a level field for discussion. Neither the group or you is higher to the other. You trade information and learn from each other. < FROM EACH OTHER> This is the power of the group, which is a power you can tap to gain knowledge, strength, and find support.

If you don't believe in god type things, I wouldn't make too much an issue out of it. Living a joyful life in recovery works well without the requirement of spirituality.

Like you, I made an issue out of he higher power thing early in the program, and went on one final religious quest seeking one, but you can only bend meanings and semantics to a point. In the end, your recovery is your responsibility, and it is so whether or not you believe a higher power is standing by your side.

Guener

I could not reconcile some of the steps with my own beliefs, but I did find some good things from people who do have a higher power to rely upon if I couldn't myself.

One thing is that I am not the center of the Universe. I don't know how existence came into being, but my presence here is pretty irrelevant to the order of things. I understood that I needed tremendous help to go through this effort to become sober, that I couldn't rely on myself as the guiding force alone to get things settled down. I was tremendously self-centered and selfish, and I realized that in talking to others, including in AA meetings.

I connected with the Serenity prayer pretty well.

nez

My truth is not found in my ego. I find my truth by improving my conscious contact with my soul.

awuh1

Here's my experience.
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...xperience.html (Having had a spiritual experience)