Equestrian83

con art·ist
nouninformal
a person who cheats or tricks others by persuading them to believe something that is not true.
"the debonair con artist lives by scamming rich women"

So my therapist said today my xabf was a con artist. Which find of rubbed me the wrong way. Not trying to defend him but I still believe him to be a nice guy. No I dont want him back because he did lie for 9 months about alcohal and his past. I still feel most of everything else was not a lie.

He was selfish yes
He lied about the drinking yes

Not sure he was in a place to have healthy relationship but wanted one.

Advise interpratation?

I think maybe she wants me to be mad but I'm not. Still sad but honestly I feel pity for him and hope he gets his crap together for his own sake. It's a waste of a life. I know I can do better and we have talked on here about using angry to push forward.

E

trailmix

I don't know him, of course so I can only give my opinion. Con artist or not? Does your therapist know anything about addiction at all?

Here is the thing, if she doesn't then I don't know that she can give an accurate interpretation of his behaviour (I'm also not trying to defend him).

He was great, he was kind he was thoughtful and then he let you know he was an alcoholic and couldn't actually function without his alcohol anymore.

Is that a con? I don't know, I wouldn't interpret it that way. A con has intent, intent to harm. Did he intend to harm you? Did he say, I'll pretend to be a nice guy and then decide he just couldn't keep doing that, or is he basically a nice guy who also happens to be an alcoholic and he felt he needed to go back to drinking (more drinking that is)?

I don't know the answer, you have more insight than anyone, I just think it's unusual that she would come to that conclusion so quickly, if she is familiar with addiction at all.

LifeRecovery

My two cents only.

My exAH was a con artist when it came to his addiction. He was conned by the promises alcohol offered to him....the numbing, the ability to be social, the fact that he "Did not have a problem."

I believe because he was being conned by his addiction, he had to defend it....and in all honesty he was telling me his best truth at any given period of time BUT it was a house of card to protect his addiction.

In my opinion he was a con artist because he himself was being conned.

Shredder22

I get tough love but there is a time and a place.
He never loved you.
It was all fake.
He's broken
He doesn't love himself

I agreed but I walked out and felt sad. He quit for 3 months I got him a great job. He was doing machine operator 60 hours a week 5:45am -3 pm. I dropped him off his first day and cheered him on. He was so nervous the night before. He was like ty you baby for believing me I love you. 90 days daily I got an 11 am text I'm on my 15 I love you call if you can. 1 pm was lunch he called and told me all about the day. He even said I think about you a lot when I'm working. I havnt treated you properly, I'm sorry for all the times I was an *******. He got me beautiful flowers with his first check. 90 days later he injured himself a pinched nerve he needed surgery. Tdi approved him for 1400 it was gone fast and so was he. Yea, he ignored me, ghosted me, said vicious things but the whole year wasn't a disaster. I hope one day he doesn't not think of me as some crazy lady and sees how much I loved him. I also hope one day I will stop beating myself that if I didn't go crazy we would still be together. It also hurts his own mother whom I always respected said I bring out the worst in her leave the family alone. She said I worry too much about what people think. I'm codependent i want everyone to like me.

As far as my therapist she is great but they don't live with us. They don't see the glimmer of hope, clean days, nice gestures. I guess they want us to keep from going back. I cried typing that out.

Equestrian83

Not really sure her background with addiction. I felt it was a little off. Yeah he was a nice guy with a handful of problems. Yes he lied to hide them, but I dont feel there was intent to harm or to get me.

Equestrian83

Your not crazy
Your not crazy
Your not crazy

Dont let them determine your self worth. That voice that talks inside about how you look today or how much you get done or how much you eat or don't eat. The one that thinks about if we should shave or not shave our legs lol. That voice is the one that matters. Is it a nice voice? Or is it over critical? Be nice to yourself! If you got out of bed today and did only one thing because yesterday you didn't, be proud. That voice needs to be a cheerleader not a critic! (I am working on a less critical voice myself... some self love)

Yes I agree that they were not presant and have to piece things together from what we say.
L
Hugs
E

aliciagr

With my own husband when he was in active addiction - I know that he loved me and was a good person, but he felt that he needed to protect his addiction, needed to protect me from his addiction. The shame and guilt because deep inside he knew what he was doing wasn't right or the way to handle his issues. He knew that if I found out then I would would worry, want him to stop and seek help if he couldn't. he couldn't fathom stopping because of the mental and emotional dependency.

So in a way he became a con artist. Not to hurt me, but to have his cake and eat it too. To portray what he thought he should be, what he was before the addiction kicked up. To keep things good between us, to not hurt me. To keep normalcy, but to still keep using and hiding it.

I don't know your therapist, how many sessions you have had, etc. But I can see how the term could be used and the both of you could be correct. He is a good person, just in a bad place with serious issues. And the con was just to hide what was too painful and awful to share outright.

Also, I do believe there are many who believe its usually the case that in relationships involving a person with a substance use disorder - its a simply dynamic where the addict is incapable of feeling love for another but is only looking for someone to use. Hence the concept of con artist.. In my opinion it may be true in some cases, but its a stereotype that doesn't fit the majority of people who are dealing with use' disorders. Much may depend on how far progressed the addiction has become I suppose.

Anyway, if you go back to the therapist, maybe open it up for discussion. My therapist would often say something, ask me a question just to make me think. Often the therapist really doesn't hold the answer. Instead they are trained to help us find the answer ourselves by opening up new ways to look at things. It may help confirm our existing feelings or spark new ones that lead us to where we need to go.

dandylion

This sparked a memory of a situation that I experienced....I had a friend, once, that was seething angry about her relationship....it was all she could talk about, and was in turmoil much of the time....One day she informed me that she had heard of a spiritual counselor that was highly recommended, and decided to see her....
Afterward, she raved about the counselor....how perceptive she seemed and how comfortable she felt in her presence....and how encouraged she felt....
After the second session...my friend was furious about the counselor and said that she would never go to see her again! I asked her why---and she told me that the counselor had said that she (my friend) "had a lot of anger inside".....

My friend exclaimed, with an irate face...."I am not going to see anyone that thinks I am angry!"...…..

I just looked at her and smiled.

dandylion

Equestrian...
One of the "pearls" of therapy/counseling....is to refrain from criticizing the person's partner's boyfriend, husband....because the person has a lot of themselves invested in the relationship..thus, a lot of their own identity....
So, when someone criticizes the partner...if feels like they are being attacked (criticized), themselves.....
The natural reaction, then, is for the person to feel the need to defend the partner.....

Usually, the best action is to validate the person's feelings....without comment about the partner...until the person feels safe enough with the counselor to begin to identify her OWN misgivings about the partner......as she no longer feels attacked.....


Another "pearl"...….is not to use certain strong words with a client....such as "angry". Strong words can be so emotionally laden....It is usually best to wait until the client uses the word, themselves, first. For example....when seeing an angry person...it is best to simply ask them to "describe how they are feeling"....rather than saying "you seem to be very angry".....


LOL...this probably has no real direct connection to you and your circumstance...but, I just got on a roll thinking about "pearls"...lol....
(there is a whole manual of pearls)…...

Leelee168

I would use “con artist” to describe my former abusive A fiancé; the longer we are apart, the more I recognize that this was the case. When he was removed from the house, I had so many illusions of who he really was before the alcohol got to him—all the “good” times and the person who once might have actually loved me. I was stuck in that for a long time and it was hard to move through the grief of losing a relationship, albeit an abusive one. My first inclination was always to make excuses for him and his bad behavior and that continued for a long time. And honestly, there are still some days I feel badly for him and make excuses, but far, far fewer than there were initially.

Now I see that he used me for my job—which brought us a very good income and lifestyle. He used me for my things, which brought comfort to his life. He used me to get what he wanted, but did not want to work for—he wanted to drink. The lies I have uncovered and the secrets he kept from me, in an effort to maintain his life of drinking, are unbelievable. Some days I feel like I could be one of those shows on Discovery ID. Is he a con man? Absolutely. He was very skilled with the lies, manipulation and cover up.

Give the emotion some time to become less raw. Time will help you to see more clearly.

Best to you.

trailmix

I guess my concern is labelling inaccurately, it has all kinds of connotations.

Conman or liar? Defensive move or destructive intent?

I guess it's like calling someone a narcissist. Narcissism is on a scale, there are people with actual narcissistic personality disorder and there are people all over the scale (we all have some narcissism, there are normal amounts to be had!)

If we just throw "conman" around then anyone who lies could be called a conman I suppose. I don't know, maybe i'm just getting hung up on the label, I just don't see that it is helpful unless it is proven.

Not to take away from anyone who feels this is the case, to each his/her own description/experience, of course.

SmallButMighty

Of course this is just my opinion, but I believe all addicts in active addiction are con artists. All the ones I've known have been... and unfortunately I've known far too many.

Maybe this therapist has been jaded by her experience with alcoholics. Perhaps it was not professional to share that opinion however...

hopeful4

Did you tell her it bothered you to hear that? Just curious.

NYCDoglvr

I wouldn't call him a con artist, which implies he has some control over his words and actions. He's an active alcoholic and will say or do anything to protect their drinking. Nevertheless you are right in letting go......there is nothing you can say or do that will affect an alcoholic's drinking. Save yourself.

velma929

Yup, correct. The 'con' isn't short for 'convict, ' it's short for "confidence man;" the person who would gain a person's confidence to scam him or her. Presenting himself as available for a relationship, lying to you was wrong. Moving into a relationship without any consideration for how his drinking or lies would hurt you concerning himself only with what would make him happy, pretty much fits my definition of a con artist.