ChucktownMC

Hey All,

Posted here before. I'm a recovering alcoholic double winner myself with 22 months of sobriety and very grateful for AA giving me a sober life. The last couple years have been a real struggle with my wife in denial - we were best drinking buddies for 15 years and she's been in and out of a recovery over the last 18 months.

I told her in May after she kept saying she wasn't an alcoholic to go ahead and see if she was a normal drinker. Her parents recently moved across the country to be near our family and they are huge enablers - they were to me, they are to her and they are to her younger admittedly suicidal depressive sister who threw 11 months of sobriety away to start drinking with them again. Well, sure enough my wife started drinking alcoholically again and not respecting boundaries we agreed on for what normal drinking was and what I could comfortably live with as a recovering alcoholic. She was hiding wine around the house, I would come home from a business trip and she'd be passed out in bed reaking, etc.. We have two young kids and I travel for work so I hit my bottom of what I could deal with and also was very concerned about my children. After an argument about the topic at hand two Sunday's ago in which she admitted to drinking during some occasions which she went way out her way to lie about when I didn't even ask - I finally asked her to leave. I gave her a key to a hotel room and told her to figure out what she wanted to do or I would have her legally removed from the house for habitual alcohol abuse.

Luckily, sometime during that 3 day hotel stay she hit her current bottom, walked back in to AA and entered intensive outpatient treatment. This family has a lot of healing to do - if she stays sober. I'm cautiously optimistic. I love my wife and our family and don't want to see alcohol tear it apart.

Anyhow, her parents continue to be an issue. As expected, she called her parents frantically when I kicked her out and they immediately went to protecting their drinking buddy and suggesting she divorce me. She finally got to see how toxic her parents are and that they are intent on destroying our family to protect and not look at their own alcoholic behavior. Personally, I don't want anything to do with them until they get some kind of education on alcoholism and some family therapy. I tried to play the the nice guy for the last 22 months and just tolerate them but at this point a zero contact boundary is all I can do.

My wife and I set boundaries for them in which they may not have unsupervised visits with our children, our children are not to be around them if they are drinking and none of that is up for discussion and likely won't change until the agree to attend a family therapist specializing in alcoholic/addiction families and complete any follow-on work provided to them. They are racist, elitist, judgmental, pompous alcoholics and unfortunately they remind me of some of my shortcomings before I got sober which is very hard to be around. Additionally, all the denial and defense my wife spilled to them about her own alcoholism over the last two years poisoned the situation even worse.

She has been very transparent with me and her sponsor about the manipulation, self-pity, guilt that her parents are trying to use on her the last couple weeks and has since told them they need to agree to family therapy if things are going to get any better. I honestly don't know if her step dad will.

My first sponsor told me that the first person in a family to enter recovery will have hundreds of arrows shot at them and that is certainly my experience with them. My immediate family on the other hand has been so supportive with my mom having grown up with two alcoholic parents. I am super grateful for that.

I don't know what I am asking but I just needed to vent and put this out there. Don't know how I feel about it all. Maybe some others experience with family members like this would help.

BoxinRotz

Congratulations on 22 months sober. I know you want to save your marriage but that is up to your wife to do so. If she continues to drink, you have no other choice but to take care of your children, possibly on your own.

Stay sober. Take care of you. Take care of your children. Let her take care of herself. If she wants this marriage to work, she will make it work and find the strength, as you did, to stay sober.

maia1234

CT,
Sounds like you have a lot on your plate. Congrats on your sobriety, as that is always your number one priority!!!

Are you currently working a AA program? Because my program being a codie, was about me and taking care of me, not controlling what is going on with my addict. I don't want to come off as mean, but all that responsibility on you takes a toll on you mentally and physically. I think that it is wonderful that your wife is in treatment, but you and i both know her sobriety is really none of our business. Protecting your children as you said is your utmost priority.

As you know boundaries are for you, not guide lines for other people. Example: We state we will not let my wife be alone with the kids if she is drunk. We will not let the kids be with my in laws if they are drinking. I will not let my wife drive drunk with the kids. You would make other arrangements if you felt concerned over any of these situations.

What boundary/agreement do you have "that you and your wife set up about her drinking? " Then you state ....You can "have her legally removed from the house for habitual alcohol abuse". I am confused. First- When you are dealing with an alcoholic , what do you constitute normal drinking? You should know this as 22 months ago you were in her shoes and there is no normal with an alcoholic. Second, you can't have her legally removed from the house for her habitual alcohol abuse.

I think you might try and hit an alanon meeting. You need to step back and let your wife work her program. You know that sobriety is a one man show and she needs to want this on her own or she will fail again. I agree with her parents stepping away as they are complete enablers, but they are her parents and you can't stop that relationship, even as toxic as it is.

Please take care of you, work your "alanon" program. Protect your children at all costs even if it is to pay a family member or babysitter when you are out of town. This is your boundary stating " I can not trust you and I will leave them with someone I can trust. Would you leave your kids with a drunk babysitter, your wife is no different?

I think that you mean well trying to control all aspects of your life, your wife's life, her parents life, and your kids life. It will eventually back fire because it is all out of your control.

I am hoping that this is the perfect storm for your wife to finally commit to sobriety, but what is your boundary if she doesn't, and you don't need to share it with her, but have a plan. hugs my friend!!

trailmix

You mention your sponsor and your wife's sponsor but do either of you have a therapist or counsellor, in particular your wife? I ask because not only is there an addiction issue there, there is the whole outside family dynamic to deal with.

Sponsors can be wise but they are not therapists and you all will need tools to deal with this if you remain in contact.

I don't have any experience with alcoholic in-laws (thankfully) but I think your idea of no contact right now is absolutely correct. What your wife chooses to do in terms of contact is up to her, of course, but your children (above all) also need to be protected and it's good to see you have firm boundaries there.

I would frankly pull away from that drama completely and just focus on your marriage and your children. None of you need the added stress and drama these other people bring. You have enough healing to do on your own. I do wish you well with that.

ChucktownMC

Hey All,

Thanks for the replies. Maia, I definitely appreciated your response as it allowed me to thoroughly look at what my boundaries are and that they are for me and my children - not her.

My wife on the other hand is continuously being attacked by her parents with the whole menu of guilt, self-pity, etc.. Next will be the writing her out of the will that they always threaten when she brings up her biological father - no big deal to us. It's really pretty sad.

Trailmix - Yes, fortuitously we have a therapist session this afternoon with one of the best family therapists specializing in alcoholism/addiction families in the area - very grateful for that. In-laws are currently refusing any kind of family therapy at their daughters suggestion as they see it as a punishment

So I continue to stay no contact, take care of myself and my children and know that more will be revealed for my wife and it's out of my control.

None the less - it's not fun.

maia1234

Chuck,
You sound like an amazing Dad and of course worry about your family. I know it will be hard to hit the therapist as she needs to get her head on straight, just like you did 22 months ago. Do you remember those early days of sobriety, very foggy. That is where your wife is right now, trying to process this transition again and again, odds are against her to succeed. This is where you need to step up and have a plan.

Sobriety is about growing up, sobering up and working a program, as you know. Its a huge commitment and she has to work at it 110%. She will hopefully attend evening meetings and meeting up with her sponsor, maybe even seeing her therapist more often. Are you ready for her to be "checked" out again? You know that this will not happen over night and life doesn't turn instantly. You will need some friends or your family to help with the kids if you are working or out of town. People that you can count on when a crisis might happen. Have a plan.

Your in laws are no different then an addict, they sound like very sick people. Twenty three months ago would you have liked someone telling you that you are dysfunctional and that you need to see a therapist? Forget it, they don't have a problem with themselves, you do, so technically it isn't their problem to fix, it is yours. And that is what you are trying to accomplish. Going no contact with them might be the best solution for you, as you have enough on your plate to handle. Plus, being removed from the will is truly out of your control, just sounds like a blackmail tactic. If your wife is dead from alcoholism, she/you won't get any money anyway.

Finally, alanon is a program for you and will help you navigate these waters as not to baby her, but to treat her as an adult. Adults have consequences that we all have to adhere too. You need to see where your consequences are if she picks up again. She supposedly is getting healthier in rehab, so this is your time to decompress, smile have fun with the kids and work your program. They say, "it works when you work it".

You got this my friend!! You are 22 months sober and that is an accomplishment in itself. Take one day at a time!!!

ChucktownMC

Hey All,

Wanted to provide an update and seek some more advice. Just hit 2 years of sobriety myself last week on 10/10. Wife has completed IOP Treatment and is involved in AA and appears to be getting better.

Since I last posted her mom continued to guilt trip her about taking time for herself and this family away from her mom and step-dad. BTW, they moved an hour from here 3-4 months ago from across the country. Lucky me. My wife worked with her sponsor to construct a message to her mom that she needed space from her parents to work on her relationship with her immediate family (me and kids) and that she needed them to respect that boundary. Her mom begrudgingly obliged.

After 8 days, Hurricane Florence was hitting NC and of no threat to the Charleston, SC area where we live or her parents that live an hour south of here. There was no potential danger to either of us but her step-dad made a decision to send my wife an extremely rude text stating:

I am shocked and beyond disappointed that you would reach out to me about MY family during this potential disaster. Clearly you do need help with relationships...Good luck with that...

It was completely crazy. Apparently he fessed up to his wife the next day that he did that and she told him to not do it again but justified to my wife that he has trouble with his emotions and they just feel so helpless and hopeless because they can't see her and the grandkids. Same guilt, manipulation as always.

Finally, my MIL agreed to meet with my wife and her treatment counselor for an hour to discuss the ongoing situation. A lot of things were discussed but I was disappointed that my wife did not bring directly her parents pushing her to divorce me and her step-dad sending a completely out of line text stating:

Your husband is severely mentally ill. I don't believe he is even an alcoholic and AA is certainly doing nothing for him. He needs to find help for his mental illness and maybe he can better and fix this situation.

In all honesty, I've been pretty steamed about this since he wrote it. It's crazy to think that they loved me as a drunk and do everything to tear me down and destroy my family now that I am sober and being responsible for their daughter and grandkids. None the less, my wife is extremely codependent of her mom and at 70 days sober doesn't have the strength to stand up to them yet. Trust me, I'm staying aware of her falling in to her old habits of siding with her parents and eventually drinking with them. She did tell her mom she was no where near letting her step-dad back in to her life right now. Of course, her mom justified and rationalized his behavior.

Anyhow, after the treatment meeting my wife took the kids to meet her mom at a pumpkin patch for the afternoon a couple days later. So where am I at in all of this - this is where I am looking for feedback.

I can understand if my wife wants to try to restore her relationship with her mom. However, her mom is a complete enabler, likely alcoholic and narcissist. She is in complete denial of the generational alcoholism in her family, both her daughters issues with alcohol and both men she married in life. Both her and her husband just went on a trip from China and brought home a bunch of toys for the kids and she was angling with my children for grandpa to come see them and bring them the toys they got them. They have always tried to use money and gifts to manipulate people to fall in line or do what they want and personally - we don't need their money.

I have stated to my wife that I don't want our kids anywhere near her step-dad.
She has accepted that. He is a very sick man and his behavior is completely out of line. So here is where I am at - we can play the avoid game which my wife is prone to do and I don't think she has the strength to lay down this boundary to her mom and dad. I'm at the point where I am willing to do it because I have been playing this game with them for 2 years and have been bulldozed by their behavior too many times to count. So do I deliver this boundary to them? Do I just play the avoid game? Do I just let it play out?

Help me, what do I do?

Thank you all for the support.

Mango212

1. Consider the source.

2. Step out of playing the game. Live your own life.

3. One day at a time, let go & let God.

A visual I was given at an alcohol rehab family week is if someone says or does something, keep your arms at your side and picture yourself not picking it up, not reaching out for it, not grabbing hold of it. Let it fall and walk away.

These notes, messages, barbs, hooks -- it's okay to decide not be reeled in.

LovePeaceSushi

It's your wife's responsibility to deal with her parents and tell them what the boundaries are. I have issues with my in-laws as well. They are not alcoholics, but are complete enablers and they despise me and blame me for their son's alcoholism. (I, too, have gotten nasty text messages from them and they also encourage my AH to divorce me) My AH struggles with being able to stand up to them - especially his dad. My husband's therapist/IOP leader says it's his responsibility, so I have gone No Contact and I'm letting him deal with it. AH has said that he would invite them to family day at IOP, but that was 3 weeks ago and no invite has been given. They need some serious education in alcoholism/addiction. Don't subject yourself to them or give them any more opportunities to be nasty to you. Let your wife take the lead on that. In the meantime, enjoy your no contact. I know I am!!!

trailmix

Hi Chucktown. Well, with this amazingly insightful step-Father, who needs therapy and all those degrees lol

I'm sorry but his text actually made me laugh. Yes, easy for me to laugh, not directed at me. Do you ever look at this with a sense of humour?

Honestly, it's all so wacky it might just help.

On a more serious note, from what you have said you are on the right path. Your wife is in very early recovery, you know what that's like. She does need protection from these people and of course that is up to her, to maintain her boundaries.

So glad to hear that you do have the support of a good therapist. Getting sober is hard, maintaining boundaries in relationships where none have existed is hard. Tough road to hoe.

As long as you are dong the next right thing and you seem to be, there is nothing more to be done. Keep on keeping on, stay strong for yourself and your family.

As for the avoiding, she is not ready yet to lay down the law. It will be pretty much ignored coming from you, I would suggest, for now, keep avoiding, over time those boundaries will be enforced as and when she is ready.

Cyranoak

Keep on keepin' on Chuck. Sounds to me like you are being honest with yourself about what you are seeing and what you want from your life. Don't forget your kids-- they have, are, and will continue to take damage from the family's drinking. They need help too. Counseling, Alateen, etc.

My now adult daughter grew into her mother so now I have two-- I didn't start helping her soon enough-- should have done it when she was five.

Good luck Sir!

FeelingGreat

Gee that's pretty extreme interference from the step father. My suggestion is that you control the any meeting up with them by having it at your house which is alcohol free. Or maybe meet with the kids at the mall.

Probably the best your wife can do is work with a therapist on assertive ways to deal with her mother and step father if he has a lot of influence over her. It helps to picture some situations and practice what you're going to say. You could help her with this. The idea is to resist manipulation but not destroy the relationship. You can't learn this overnight but you can get good with practice.

I can understand them wanting to see their grandchildren, and I'm not sure why you don't want them near the SF, but meeting at a neutral place like a playground would take some of the pressure off.

hopeful4

First of all, congratulations on your own continued sobriety. That is wonderful and should be #1 priority for you and your family.

It's not very likely her parents will change. They are addicts themselves, and I am guess are at an age that not many people are willing to make those sort of commitments to changing who they are. I would make plans on how to handle it when your boundaries have to be permanent, what that will look like, and how your wife will handle that.

Secondly, I would focus more on your own children and getting them into age appropriate therapy than her parents. You children are very affected by what is going on in this household and will need help for this. They have likely seen a lot and have been affected by so much. Having an addict parent is very, very stressful on their lives.

Keep venting, keep looking here to SR for support, it's a great resource!

FireSprite

No one's feelings come before the wellbeing of my child. NO ONE. Not her father, not my mother, not anyone.

Let their feelings be hurt, as adults they have every ability to work on that from their side & already have an awareness of the problem (they just don't like it) - protect your kids.

I think Cy said it best -" I didn't start helping her soon enough-- should have done it when she was five" through the filter of his hindsight. You can be proactive here & not necessarily have the same future regrets. (although, there's no way to do any of it perfectly remember - just Our Best)

Mine too. I'm the villain now - not the alcohol, drugs or other huge dysfunctions. Me.

Wish I could see an end to it but my reality is that the longer we stay on such differing paths, the more difficult it is to manage any type of healthy relationship.

ChucktownMC

Hey All,

Just updating and clearing the head.

Wife is now nearly 4 months sober, completed all of IOP treatment, we're actively engaged with the best families of addiction counselor in the area. She has laid out boundaries to her parents and let them know:

1.) If you speak ill of my husband I will not be around you.
2.) If you speak ill of recovery or try to pry in to my recovery with no education on alcoholism and recovery I will not be around you.
3.) They know that they will only see their grandchildren with my wife's supervision and she won't expose them to her families drinking for both them and herself.

I would say all very good progress. Of course like a textbook, they blame me for everything. They have a marriage of zero accountability and taking each other for granted and they feel that is normal. They think that I didn't let my wife make a choice about quitting drinking, though she was in and out of recovery for 18 months and ultimately I let her prove to herself she wasn't a normal drinker. I did allow her a choice - drinking or be with your husband and children. Anyhow, these are extremely sick people I'm dealing with.

I've been doing really good lately not letting their actions or opinions consume my life. We're not spending Thanksgiving with them - they live 45 minutes away - and are spending the day with another family in recovery. It's strange, I can't help but to think of what drama they will spin up after today. It sucks that my intuition has been right about them every step of the way. In fact, even before I got sober I knew that if I stepped out of this madness and got better it was going to be a disaster with them. Thank god I did though...

The funniest thing that I've heard lately is that my father in law is so upset to the point of tears because he thinks I am not letting him have a normal relationship with his step daughter and grand children. Of course, it gets pointed back at me. However, the funniest think I've been thinking about is what his definition of normal would be. For him dysfunction is normal.

Much love and Happy Thanksgiving.

Mango212

Happy Thanksgiving and many blessings for you and your family.

Thanks for the update and congratulations on your sobriety, recovery and developing boundaries.

That's a good perspective on my family of origin as well. Their dysfunction is their normal. I have a new definition of normal. DS11 does, too.