applewakesup

I have a question about the AA approach to recovery. I know that the SMART approach is different in this regard, but I am trying to understand what each espouses.

The first step in AA is admitting powerlessness over alcohol. Last night I went to a meeting and I seemed to get the impression that in order for one to become sober, the alcoholic must admit s/he can't do it his/herself and then the higher power helps out. I know that some groups say your higher power can be anything - even the universe, but still, it has to intervene on your behalf it seems.

However, the speaker also said that the one thing he can control is that he won't pick up a drink. So, isn't that having some control over alcohol?

I fully understand the need to admit you can't control it once you get started, but living in abstinence is a form of power over alcohol, is it not? I'm not trying to be difficult. I don't believe in any sort of supernatural power having a conscious will that affects my life in any way. I believe there is a universe (obviously) but not that it makes decisions, especially not about my behavior.

I am also sorry if this is an analytical question, but I am a scientist and I think logically. If you are able to help me understand, it would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

ScottFromWI

For most the concept is that we do have the power to make the decision to not pick up a drink in the first place, but that once we start we lose control.

There is no exact scientific answer though, because we truly don't fully understand how addiction works. I wanted scientific answers too, but for me the real breakthrough moment was when I was able to accept that i AM an alcoholic, and I'll probably never know WHY I am. Once I was able to accept that I could move forward and recover.

AnvilheadII

you've got a pretty good take on things.....

Powerlessness is about being powerless OVER alcohol - and that life is unmanageable. as long as the alcoholic DOES NOT DRINK, he cannot become inebriated, get stupid, get drunk, and otherwise be UNDER the INFLUENCE of the substance.

alcohol has BEEN the Higher Power for a long long time. and the alcoholic goes to INSANE lengths to worship at that alter. drinking became THE central focus to the exclusion of everything and everyone else.

so the concept of a Higher Power is really about finding another kinder more benevolent power that will do us no harm and not DEMAND we hand over our jobs, drivers licenses and liver.

most alcoholics have underlying reasons why getting drunk, getting numb, became so important. many alcoholics have done things while drunk that brought more shame and guilt. the never ending pile on. alcohol became like liquid duct tape, ain't nuthin' it can't fix.

that's where the quitting is the easy part, it's the STAYING quit that's a b!tch. next bad day, next argument with the wife, next flat tire, next non winning lotto ticket.....and there goes the phenomenon of craving again. the obsession. it is believed that allowing for a Higher Power that is not US and is not BOOZE to come into our lives, and by working the steps, that that obsession can and will be lifted. and we won't end each day clawing at the wallboard cuz we want a drink so damn bad it hurts.

tomsteve

step 1-We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.

were- past tense.
i WAS powerless over alcohol. but i worked the steps. as a result of working the steps, the 10th step promises occured:

And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone - even alcohol.
For by this time sanity will have returned.
We will seldom be interested in liquor.
If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame.
We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically.
We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation.
We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us.
We are neither cocky nor are we afraid.
That is our experience. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition.


HOWEVER, it is only the 1st drink i have power over. i have the power to control my actions
i think control over alcohol and power over alcohol are 2 different things. control is action. power it thought.

nova84

Thanks for asking the question applewakesup, it was interesting to read people's responses as never having done AA myself I had always been somewhat confused by powerless statement...makes more sense now. Thanks all x

least

As was said, once I drink, I have no power over it. But I do have the power not to drink the first one.

I'm powerless over the effects of alcohol, but do have the power of choice. I choose not to drink. But in order for me to get to that point, I had to want to be sober more than I wanted to drink.

Gottalife

You ask a very good question. The speaker said he could choose not to pick up a drink. If I could have done that I would not have needed AA or the higher power.

The fact for me was that I had lost the power of choice in drink, and I never got it back. I could choose not to drink for a period, sometimes hours, sometimes days but I could never stay stopped, which is the heart of the problem. To paraphrase the big book, at certain times I was without an effective mental defense against the first drink.

The thoughts that should have stopped me, if they occurred at all and mostly they didn't, were hazy and easily pushed aside in favor of the insane idea that this time I could have a drink and a good time without the usual consequences. This insane thinking occurred even just minutes after standing before the judge to face the consequences of some previous drinking bout. This is what powerless meant to me. Even with the intention to stay sober for the day, I still found myself drinking, having started again without any conscious thought.

All this is explained in detail in the first forty or so pages of the big book. I read that, and have no trouble identifying. It describes me very well. It may not describe you, and that is fine.

The concept of admission of defeat, personal powerlessness, seems to be a prerequisite for spiritual experience, which is the AA solution to alcoholism. It seems that if one's own power is adequate, there is no good reason to pursue a relationship with a greater power. It usually takes a severe beating at the hands of John Barleycorn, or some very honest thinking or insight, to see and accept personal powerlessness over alcohol.

Hope that helps.

I said earlier I didn't get the power of choice back. That is not promised in the big book. It says in part, that the problem has been removed, it does not exist for us, making even the need for choice absolutely redundant. I could no more choose to drink today than I used to be able to choose not to drink. That is the power of spiritual experience.

JamesfrmEngland

Im a (psychological) scientist too and the contradictions were partly why aa didn't work for me

tomsteve

which contradictions are you referring to?

i thought you were a medic?

JamesfrmEngland

I originally qualified as a psychologist, I meant the contradictions with what I know about psychology, for instance even when someone drinks they still have 'power' or choice or free will are the words I prefer (although it may be reduced).

AnvilheadII

the OP asked for insight and opinions into AA's concept of powerlessness. not yet another thread about why AA doesn't work for someone...............

tomsteve

oh, well try to tell the drunk whos halfway through a 5th of jim beam that they have the power of choice to stop right then.
have you been able to do it? have you been able to do it every time?

the psychology is only a theory, not a fact. the fact is there are many alcoholics who cant stop once theyve had a drink. theyve gone to the next stage of alcoholism.
proof of that all around this site alone

applewakesup

Thank you all for your insights. I believe that AA is a fantastic organization for many, many people. I do believe it works best for those that are truly desperate, who may in fact, not BE ABLE to stop without AA and without some sort of faith.

I don't think it is a good place for me at this time. I know that drinking has caused problems in my life, and that as I age, hangovers have gotten worse, even with less drinking. For that reason, I believe I should stay away from alcohol. It has been difficult for me, but I do not find it impossible. I do not believe that I am immune from the sort of desperation and loss that many here have experienced, just that I haven't had that happen yet. I have decided to be proactive about drinking before I have major losses in my life.

I am grateful for this site, where it is safe to ask questions and receive support, no matter where we come from. Thank you all again for taking time to answer my questions. I appreciate it.