your favorite links on moderation, controlled drinking, and the various 'drink normally' stories
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your favorite links on moderation, controlled drinking, and the various 'drink normally' stories
Hiya....
I have a good friend who has recently begun toying with the idea of adopting the label "alcoholic" in observing his patterns of relationship with alcohol.
He is presently at the stage of "making a no more than two drinks commitment". Also "realized that Martini's are the real problem.... gotta stay away from them".
He is consciously aware that this experimentation and focus on limits is basically "controlled drinking" - but I wanted to share with him some actual firsthand stories of attempts at moderation.
I shared with him some of mine... but figured a link or two out to stories here would be a great follow up.
Just wondered if you might have readily to hand one or two really solid thread examples on the topics of 'moderation' and 'controlled drinking'.
Please post your favorites here
Thanks!
FO
I have a good friend who has recently begun toying with the idea of adopting the label "alcoholic" in observing his patterns of relationship with alcohol.
He is presently at the stage of "making a no more than two drinks commitment". Also "realized that Martini's are the real problem.... gotta stay away from them".
He is consciously aware that this experimentation and focus on limits is basically "controlled drinking" - but I wanted to share with him some actual firsthand stories of attempts at moderation.
I shared with him some of mine... but figured a link or two out to stories here would be a great follow up.
Just wondered if you might have readily to hand one or two really solid thread examples on the topics of 'moderation' and 'controlled drinking'.
Please post your favorites here
Thanks!
FO
Giving up is NOT an option.
Join Date: Jan 2015
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Here's a story for you - not a link, but a story. This is about a friend of mine. He was sober for 16 years. He went back out. Decided he could control his drinking, and he did, for a while. Drank only beer. Limited to two or three at a time. Didn't drink every day. Fast forward to a couple of years later, and he was sitting in the cab of his pickup with a loaded gun in his lap, about to commit suicide after hitting a rock bottom of a DUI, losing his job and home, living in his truck. He didn't kill himself that day, instead he called someone and went to inpatient treatment. But it's an example of the slippery slope of moderation. Simply doesn't work for a lot of us, if we are truly addicted. Even after 16 years of sobriety.
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Thank you!
Particularly relevant will be those stories of "high bottom" folks who began to recognize the issue - but continued on despite that because it hadn't gotten "bad enough" to convince them that sobriety was a better way.....
and the tales of how it went from there.
Particularly relevant will be those stories of "high bottom" folks who began to recognize the issue - but continued on despite that because it hadn't gotten "bad enough" to convince them that sobriety was a better way.....
and the tales of how it went from there.
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Originally Posted by Anna 
FreeOwl, you can just use the Search function on this website to search for threads.
Just casting my net broadly as a means of getting faster more targeted results.
I know that many members have 'favorite' threads and often post / re-post so I'm lookin' for an assist.
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There are countless threads/posts to read, but being alcoholics, we are stubborn SOB's in that way that no matter what you show them, it's not going to do anything until he is finally ready to truly admit, and commit to sobriety.
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Originally Posted by Forward12
There are countless threads/posts to read, but being alcoholics, we are stubborn SOB's in that way that no matter what you show them, it's not going to do anything until he is finally ready to truly admit, and commit to sobriety.
and yet, looking back every story I heard, every experience that was shared with me, every warning and example I was given..... in retrospect was one small piece of my own journey to acceptance and understanding.
It's why community is so vitally important and why as sober living folks it's so essential we retain our willingness to share that story over and over and over and over again....
We cannot make 'em do it, but we can be a part of their awakening and the journey to their own choice.
I am thankful for every story, every AA meeting, every post, every person that took the time to share with me or point out to me or offer me an experience.... because they all contributed to where I am today.
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Possibly the saddest story I know:
Addiction, Drunk Driving, and Suicide: The Struggles of Audrey Conn, Founder of ?Moderation Management? - The Daily Beast
edit: Well, that's not the best link, but if you read the details of Audrey's journey, it is a slow-moving tragedy.
Addiction, Drunk Driving, and Suicide: The Struggles of Audrey Conn, Founder of ?Moderation Management? - The Daily Beast
edit: Well, that's not the best link, but if you read the details of Audrey's journey, it is a slow-moving tragedy.
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I seem to recall there was a poster on SR a couple of years ago who was utterly convinced that he could moderate his drinking if only he applied a rigorous enough system. He kept a long-running log of his efforts which was heartbreaking to read because he was the only person who couldn't see that he was fooling himself over and over.
My porous memory can't recall anything specific enough to turn up meaningful results on a search, but I do recall he was from Alaska. Maybe someone else with a better memory could turn up that thread.
My porous memory can't recall anything specific enough to turn up meaningful results on a search, but I do recall he was from Alaska. Maybe someone else with a better memory could turn up that thread.
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Thanks all...
This was originially intended as a PM to Dee - because he is notoriously great at being there to post very specific, very value-rich threads. I know that sometimes he has them tagged or flagged or otherwise marked for easy reference and retrieval.
I was unable to PM Dee, so I thought I'd just post it here. Searching isn't yielding me the stuff I have in mind..... I just KNOW we have a few really standout threads about moderation and controlled drinking where people have shared their various stories....
Will keep at it.
Thanks for the link nonsensical - that was particularly good. I also sent my friend chapter 3 of the Big Book....
This was originially intended as a PM to Dee - because he is notoriously great at being there to post very specific, very value-rich threads. I know that sometimes he has them tagged or flagged or otherwise marked for easy reference and retrieval.
I was unable to PM Dee, so I thought I'd just post it here. Searching isn't yielding me the stuff I have in mind..... I just KNOW we have a few really standout threads about moderation and controlled drinking where people have shared their various stories....
Will keep at it.
Thanks for the link nonsensical - that was particularly good. I also sent my friend chapter 3 of the Big Book....
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It's just a really common story.
Not everybody who decides to cut back is an alcoholic, and not every alcoholic decides to cut back.
Nobody wants to accept that they are alcoholic or even have a drinking problem. How do you know anyway? We don't normally arrive at this conclusion without sufficient evidence.. and that is different for everyone, but how can you know that you are an alcoholic (a person who can not control their drinking) if you never try to control your drinking? How often do you try to do something once and after the first unsuccessful attempt, just accept that you can not do it?
Your friend is not going to believe that he can't drink in moderation just because others have tried and failed. He wants to be able to drink in moderation, he is going to try and try until he feels like giving up.
Not everybody who decides to cut back is an alcoholic, and not every alcoholic decides to cut back.
Nobody wants to accept that they are alcoholic or even have a drinking problem. How do you know anyway? We don't normally arrive at this conclusion without sufficient evidence.. and that is different for everyone, but how can you know that you are an alcoholic (a person who can not control their drinking) if you never try to control your drinking? How often do you try to do something once and after the first unsuccessful attempt, just accept that you can not do it?
Your friend is not going to believe that he can't drink in moderation just because others have tried and failed. He wants to be able to drink in moderation, he is going to try and try until he feels like giving up.
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well the point isn't that I'm trying to change my friend or convince him that he is or isn't an alcoholic.
He actually said to his wife recently "I'm worried that I'm an alcoholic". He is a very intelligent person, with a PhD in sciences related to the brain. He actually has a pretty good understanding of addiction and has been observing himself with what I think to be a pretty honest and insightful eye.
We discussed my belief (one he shares) that it's less important whether we 'are an alcoholic' or 'aren't an alcoholic' than the impact alcohol has on our lives. He also evidenced a lot of awareness of how alcoholism works and a concern for the 'point of no return' after which it can really run away without any further hope of control.
What I hope to offer him in follow up is simply some 'real world' stories and examples. Because there are lots of them. And they have been helpful to me in my life in becoming a "high bottom" recovery story. I didn't have to lose it all or get to the point of despairing hopelessness to finally decide that - for me - embracing sobriety was the way I wanted to go.
He may or may not feel a need to embrace sobriety. He may or may not have anything more than a tendency to overdo it sometimes. He may or may not "be an alcoholic". The point is he is a person I care about who reached out to me to share and discuss a bit about his concerns and obervations of himself. He's witnessed my own sobriety journey and it's been an influence to him..... so I am responding to that by offering a little follow up in the form of others' stories that he may benefit from.
That's what it's about. Attraction, not promotion. Sharing experiences without judging or diagnosing. Being there as a fellow, a friend, a support, an example and a source of further insight. Here is a person who isn't on recovery boards, doesn't go to meetings, hasn't yet arrived at a firm belief that there is a bigger 'problem' - but is reaching out and clearly stating his concerns.
When I encounter that, I respond with some sharing and support. Where they take it from there is up to that individual. I don't preach or harass or annoy or try to change or convince anyone. But I do offer a little something that they may not have yet been exposed to.
He actually said to his wife recently "I'm worried that I'm an alcoholic". He is a very intelligent person, with a PhD in sciences related to the brain. He actually has a pretty good understanding of addiction and has been observing himself with what I think to be a pretty honest and insightful eye.
We discussed my belief (one he shares) that it's less important whether we 'are an alcoholic' or 'aren't an alcoholic' than the impact alcohol has on our lives. He also evidenced a lot of awareness of how alcoholism works and a concern for the 'point of no return' after which it can really run away without any further hope of control.
What I hope to offer him in follow up is simply some 'real world' stories and examples. Because there are lots of them. And they have been helpful to me in my life in becoming a "high bottom" recovery story. I didn't have to lose it all or get to the point of despairing hopelessness to finally decide that - for me - embracing sobriety was the way I wanted to go.
He may or may not feel a need to embrace sobriety. He may or may not have anything more than a tendency to overdo it sometimes. He may or may not "be an alcoholic". The point is he is a person I care about who reached out to me to share and discuss a bit about his concerns and obervations of himself. He's witnessed my own sobriety journey and it's been an influence to him..... so I am responding to that by offering a little follow up in the form of others' stories that he may benefit from.
That's what it's about. Attraction, not promotion. Sharing experiences without judging or diagnosing. Being there as a fellow, a friend, a support, an example and a source of further insight. Here is a person who isn't on recovery boards, doesn't go to meetings, hasn't yet arrived at a firm belief that there is a bigger 'problem' - but is reaching out and clearly stating his concerns.
When I encounter that, I respond with some sharing and support. Where they take it from there is up to that individual. I don't preach or harass or annoy or try to change or convince anyone. But I do offer a little something that they may not have yet been exposed to.
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I don't care how many other people you show me that believe they can not drink in moderation, I know just as many who can - and that is what I want to be able to do, so I am looking at them that can. If I still want to drink, I'm still gonna drink. The only way to prove to myself whether or not I can drink in moderation is to try and try again until I get sick of trying.
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FreeOwl, your threads are usually right up my alley, and they usually get a lot of interest. The tepid response to this one is very telling. Go on out there to Moderation Management and look at their "success stories". See anything you want?
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Free owl
Maybe approach this/his thing from a perspective of identification of a certain point on a continuum . Like how the infamous 'point of no return' is actually proceeded by a/ the point/s , where when the question is asked one such point has been crossed.
Regardless labels he may apply to himself, or whether or not he is addicted and by that I mean that he has stated a desire to quit drinking and yet finds himself consuming alcohol against his better judgement, the idea that controlling one's drinking is a huge identification, and one that for many goes unacknowledged, or really ignored at best, a little faking of reality we try to perpetuate on ourselves.
It is a common occurrence, but when experienced by the individual feels/seems anything other than common. That terminal uniqueness and all.
Ask his man of science side , if objectively , given everything he understands about alcohol abuse and addiction , whether his feelings about his own situation will have any determinative effect. And remind him of the perfect solution. Abstinence.
I'm going to guess unfortunately , that he may opt for more experimentation, or settle for,controlled drinking and limited damage , as opposed to freeing himself completely. I sure as heck tried the former for too long , but thankfully grasped the ultimate benefit of the latter !
Maybe approach this/his thing from a perspective of identification of a certain point on a continuum . Like how the infamous 'point of no return' is actually proceeded by a/ the point/s , where when the question is asked one such point has been crossed.
Regardless labels he may apply to himself, or whether or not he is addicted and by that I mean that he has stated a desire to quit drinking and yet finds himself consuming alcohol against his better judgement, the idea that controlling one's drinking is a huge identification, and one that for many goes unacknowledged, or really ignored at best, a little faking of reality we try to perpetuate on ourselves.
It is a common occurrence, but when experienced by the individual feels/seems anything other than common. That terminal uniqueness and all.
Ask his man of science side , if objectively , given everything he understands about alcohol abuse and addiction , whether his feelings about his own situation will have any determinative effect. And remind him of the perfect solution. Abstinence.
I'm going to guess unfortunately , that he may opt for more experimentation, or settle for,controlled drinking and limited damage , as opposed to freeing himself completely. I sure as heck tried the former for too long , but thankfully grasped the ultimate benefit of the latter !
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Originally Posted by Dee74
Sorry, I don't keep moderation threads flagged, or collected, FreeOwl.
Not my thing.
D
Not my thing.
D
I know that I have seen great examples.... anyway, thanks for checking in.
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Originally Posted by BixBees505
FreeOwl, your threads are usually right up my alley, and they usually get a lot of interest. The tepid response to this one is very telling. Go on out there to Moderation Management and look at their "success stories". See anything you want?
NOT looking for the upside or for defense of moderation. I'm looking for the rearview mirror stories where people who tried it over and over now see their lessons in hindsight.
These can be very useful in looking honestly and rationally at where one's been in one's own attempts to 'control' and 'drink normally'.
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Originally Posted by FreeOwl
just want to make sure you understand I'm not looking for the threads on HOW to moderate. I'm looking for the 'lessons learned when I tried to moderate'.
I know that I have seen great examples.... anyway, thanks for checking in.
I know that I have seen great examples.... anyway, thanks for checking in.
Each to their own but I feel uneasy at using folks as examples of what not to do.
I'd rather help someone with positive examples.
There's no requirement for you to think the same way I do tho.
D
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