New here, husband possibly has problem
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Join Date: Sep 2016
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New here, husband possibly has problem
Hello. This is my first time posting here. I'm hoping to get support and help as I prepare to talk to my husband about his drinking.
We have been together 7 years, and truthfully, his daily drinking has bothered me from the start. But as I saw that he was responsible, didn't miss work, didn't get "drunk," didn't drink and drive, etc. I swept my concerns under the rug.
He drinks two glasses of wine every single day. The only exception is when we are out of state, visiting some relatives of mine who have a zero tolerance policy. He does fine then.
He retired a few years ago, so he is at home every day. I noticed then that he started falling asleep earlier in the evenings than he had when he was working. On weekends, he will start dozing off in the middle of the afternoon. When I come home from work Monday through Friday, he will already have had a glass of wine.
You might be asking, well, why did I wait so long or why am I wanting to speak up now. We're getting older (in our mid-fifties) and I'm worried about the cumulative effects of 14 drinks a week. Also...and I just recently put this together...although he's always been a bit of a hothead, I never connected that to his daily drinking, but I'm starting to wonder.
The truth is that he is very easily offended about lots of things, but especially about his drinking. One time, his mom made what I thought was a completely innocent joke on his Facebook page about his drinking, and I "liked" it. Well, that made him angry. Lots of things make him angry, really. We could be having a lot more arguments but for the fact that I let a lot of things go.
Boy, this is sounding worse the longer I write. Ha ha. Anyway, that's where I'm at.
We have been together 7 years, and truthfully, his daily drinking has bothered me from the start. But as I saw that he was responsible, didn't miss work, didn't get "drunk," didn't drink and drive, etc. I swept my concerns under the rug.
He drinks two glasses of wine every single day. The only exception is when we are out of state, visiting some relatives of mine who have a zero tolerance policy. He does fine then.
He retired a few years ago, so he is at home every day. I noticed then that he started falling asleep earlier in the evenings than he had when he was working. On weekends, he will start dozing off in the middle of the afternoon. When I come home from work Monday through Friday, he will already have had a glass of wine.
You might be asking, well, why did I wait so long or why am I wanting to speak up now. We're getting older (in our mid-fifties) and I'm worried about the cumulative effects of 14 drinks a week. Also...and I just recently put this together...although he's always been a bit of a hothead, I never connected that to his daily drinking, but I'm starting to wonder.
The truth is that he is very easily offended about lots of things, but especially about his drinking. One time, his mom made what I thought was a completely innocent joke on his Facebook page about his drinking, and I "liked" it. Well, that made him angry. Lots of things make him angry, really. We could be having a lot more arguments but for the fact that I let a lot of things go.
Boy, this is sounding worse the longer I write. Ha ha. Anyway, that's where I'm at.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Hi there, and welcome! Well, it's hard to say, based on what you've written, whether your husband is an alcoholic. Still, alcoholism can develop later in life--mine didn't seriously kick in until I was in my 40s. And it can start with stuff like drinking to fill the time, boredom, etc.
A couple of things. Regardless of whether he is, or isn't, an alcoholic, if his drinking bothers you, that's legitimate. You could express your concern that he might be filling his time in an unhealthy way, and see whether he has any interest in pursuing a job, volunteer work, or even a really absorbing hobby. You could tell him that maybe there's nothing to worry about, but that it's easy to become depressed or develop other health problems when there's nothing to do.
Second, you can certainly look into Al-Anon for yourself. He might see nothing in his life that needs changing. Al-Anon will help you channel your worry into more productive avenues--working on living the most fulfilling life YOU can, regardless of what he does.
See, whether he's alcoholic or not, you can't force other people to change. If he doesn't want to, you will have to decide what you are, or are not, willing to live with. Nothing drastic needs to be decided this minute. But it might be good to have a conversation with him, and to also look into help for yourself--there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and it might do you a lot of good.
A couple of things. Regardless of whether he is, or isn't, an alcoholic, if his drinking bothers you, that's legitimate. You could express your concern that he might be filling his time in an unhealthy way, and see whether he has any interest in pursuing a job, volunteer work, or even a really absorbing hobby. You could tell him that maybe there's nothing to worry about, but that it's easy to become depressed or develop other health problems when there's nothing to do.
Second, you can certainly look into Al-Anon for yourself. He might see nothing in his life that needs changing. Al-Anon will help you channel your worry into more productive avenues--working on living the most fulfilling life YOU can, regardless of what he does.
See, whether he's alcoholic or not, you can't force other people to change. If he doesn't want to, you will have to decide what you are, or are not, willing to live with. Nothing drastic needs to be decided this minute. But it might be good to have a conversation with him, and to also look into help for yourself--there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and it might do you a lot of good.
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Join Date: Jan 2016
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Are you certain he isn't drinking more than that? Two glasses of wine doesn't usually have that much of an effect on a long-term drinker?
If you're certain, than there could be something else going on...depression, early dementia, something else medical...time for a checkup?
If you're certain, than there could be something else going on...depression, early dementia, something else medical...time for a checkup?
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Join Date: Sep 2016
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Thanks to both of you, and Aries, actually, as I was typing, that very thought popped into my head...how do I know how much he really is drinking during the day?
I have really only a hazy idea of how much wine he buys because I don't drink it that often (he does all the grocery shopping). I just have the memory of when he was working and he would come home and have two glasses of wine. Now that he's home, it certainly could be more.
I worry about the health effects. I'm also becoming more aware of how much I tiptoe around his temper. I tiptoed around my sister's temper for years, but then I pushed back at her earlier this year because she pushed me too far. Now she barely speaks to me, and you know what...I kind of like it that way
Maybe that's what gave me the thought to focus more on my husband's daily drinking. I think it affects his personality. I'm getting tired of stuffing it down when he upsets me. I am absolutely going to say something (the right way, kindly, ha ha) very soon.
I have really only a hazy idea of how much wine he buys because I don't drink it that often (he does all the grocery shopping). I just have the memory of when he was working and he would come home and have two glasses of wine. Now that he's home, it certainly could be more.
I worry about the health effects. I'm also becoming more aware of how much I tiptoe around his temper. I tiptoed around my sister's temper for years, but then I pushed back at her earlier this year because she pushed me too far. Now she barely speaks to me, and you know what...I kind of like it that way
Maybe that's what gave me the thought to focus more on my husband's daily drinking. I think it affects his personality. I'm getting tired of stuffing it down when he upsets me. I am absolutely going to say something (the right way, kindly, ha ha) very soon.
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 202
Originally Posted by LexieCat 
A couple of things. Regardless of whether he is, or isn't, an alcoholic, if his drinking bothers you, that's legitimate.
I found this on the Marriage Builders website. It reads ...
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"What is an alcoholic? My definition of an alcoholic is someone who cannot follow the Policy of Joint Agreement because of their craving for alcohol. If your drinking in any form bothers your spouse, and you cannot or will not give it up for his or her sake, I consider you an alcoholic because alcohol is more important to you than the feelings of your spouse. "
--------
An explanation of the Policy Of Joint Agreement is here ...
The Policy of Joint Agreement
There are 3 articles about spouses drinking here ...
Alcoholic Spouse #1
Alcoholic Spouse #2
Alcoholic Spouse #3
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Join Date: Jun 2016
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Originally Posted by speakingup53
I'm also becoming more aware of how much I tiptoe around his temper. I tiptoed around my sister's temper for years, but then I pushed back at her earlier this year because she pushed me too far. Now she barely speaks to me, and you know what...I kind of like it that way
Maybe that's what gave me the thought to focus more on my husband's daily drinking. I think it affects his personality. I'm getting tired of stuffing it down when he upsets me.
Maybe that's what gave me the thought to focus more on my husband's daily drinking. I think it affects his personality. I'm getting tired of stuffing it down when he upsets me.
At first she was very angry only when she was drunk.
Over time though, as her drinking got worse, there were more and more occasions where even when she was sober (or at least I think she was sober), her behaviour when she was sober became more and more like her drunk personality.
Either that or she was drinking even more often than I realised, which is a possibility of course.
Over time the drinking absolutely affected my ex's personality. By the end of it all she was far more often acting like her drunk personality. It got to the point where seeing what was her "sober" personality became a rarer and rarer thing. I became the typical "walking on eggshells" partner.
Unfortunately it's one of the ways in which alcohol abuse is a progressive disease.
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I'm not sure I agree with tthguy's "definition" of an alcoholic. I suppose if you posit that someone truly wants to please one's partner, but cannot due to a compulsion to drink, it might be true.
There might, however, be situations where there is no alcoholic obsession/compulsion and the drinking partner does it out of spite or simple stubbornness. In that case, it's certainly unacceptable behavior within the "agreements" that spouses should have with each other, but not a diagnosis of alcoholism.
True alcoholism is defined in the Big Book (and this isn't a medical definition but I don't believe alcoholism is an accepted medical term) as someone with a compulsion to continue to drink once any alcohol is consumed, coupled with an obsession to drink when the person is not drinking. In other words, an inability to not drink, even when the person wishes not to.
Of course, plenty of alcoholics claim they have no desire to not drink, and in many cases that's true--at least not at the moment. But alcoholics generally--sooner or later--find themselves drinking in circumstances and under conditions where they had promised themselves, at least, that they would not.
There might, however, be situations where there is no alcoholic obsession/compulsion and the drinking partner does it out of spite or simple stubbornness. In that case, it's certainly unacceptable behavior within the "agreements" that spouses should have with each other, but not a diagnosis of alcoholism.
True alcoholism is defined in the Big Book (and this isn't a medical definition but I don't believe alcoholism is an accepted medical term) as someone with a compulsion to continue to drink once any alcohol is consumed, coupled with an obsession to drink when the person is not drinking. In other words, an inability to not drink, even when the person wishes not to.
Of course, plenty of alcoholics claim they have no desire to not drink, and in many cases that's true--at least not at the moment. But alcoholics generally--sooner or later--find themselves drinking in circumstances and under conditions where they had promised themselves, at least, that they would not.
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Originally Posted by LexieCat
I'm not sure I agree with tthguy's "definition" of an alcoholic. I suppose if you posit that someone truly wants to please one's partner, but cannot due to a compulsion to drink, it might be true.
There might, however, be situations where there is no alcoholic obsession/compulsion and the drinking partner does it out of spite or simple stubbornness. In that case, it's certainly unacceptable behavior within the "agreements" that spouses should have with each other, but not a diagnosis of alcoholism.
There might, however, be situations where there is no alcoholic obsession/compulsion and the drinking partner does it out of spite or simple stubbornness. In that case, it's certainly unacceptable behavior within the "agreements" that spouses should have with each other, but not a diagnosis of alcoholism.
So often people say that alcoholism is a family disease, and taking the feelings of the partner of the drinker and the effects of the drinking on the partner into account, is done very well by that definition.
It may not fit the traditional definition, but by taking the partner's feelings into account, I think it helps identify when drinking has become a source of problems in a relationship.
I think that extended definition also raises an interesting question - if a spouse refuses to stop drinking for the sake of the relationship, to what extent might that reveal an addiction that otherwise may not be brought to light ?
There are situations like the spiteful drinker example you mentioned, but it is a definition that raises questions about a drinker's motivation and encourages asking if it is an addiction. If someone's drinking is not an addiction, it's not, but there seems to be benefit in that question being raised, and that definition leads to asking that question.
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Thank you to all of you...regardless of how alcoholism is defined, here's how I'm thinking about the issue.
Everything I've read seems to indicate that 14 drinks for an adult male is pretty much the upper limit of what would start to affect someone's physical health.
My husband has been drinking 14 drinks for most weeks for most of his adult life (observed by me for 7 years and self-reported by him for the rest of the time). In my mind, that can't be a healthy thing. If he were insisting upon eating a big bacon cheeseburger every day, I'd have the same concern. It's just that it happens to be alcohol in his case.
And yes, I do feel it has a connection to his irritability. I don't know how well that last statement would go over if I said it out loud to him; most likely, like the proverbial lead balloon would be my guess. And I'm nervous that he feels the need to start before I even arrive home.
Thanks to all of you; you all brought up very good points!
Everything I've read seems to indicate that 14 drinks for an adult male is pretty much the upper limit of what would start to affect someone's physical health.
My husband has been drinking 14 drinks for most weeks for most of his adult life (observed by me for 7 years and self-reported by him for the rest of the time). In my mind, that can't be a healthy thing. If he were insisting upon eating a big bacon cheeseburger every day, I'd have the same concern. It's just that it happens to be alcohol in his case.
And yes, I do feel it has a connection to his irritability. I don't know how well that last statement would go over if I said it out loud to him; most likely, like the proverbial lead balloon would be my guess. And I'm nervous that he feels the need to start before I even arrive home.
Thanks to all of you; you all brought up very good points!
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In my relationship experience, any time someone got overly upset about topic X (alcohol, coming home late, a question about cheating, finances, whatever)...it was too strong of a response due to their inner knowledge of what was happening and the need to defend it or shut it down.
Meaning--the fact that he had to discuss with you his anger over you "liking" a Facebook post related to alcohol is a red flag to me. I wouldn't be surprised if he's drinking more than you know.
Regardless, if it bothers you, you don't have to prove anything--just consider what it might mean for you.
And there's a difference between true concern over his health and concern over how your life is these days (he's irritable, tired all the time, you're walking on eggshells). Make sure you're honest with yourself about what's truly bugging you. Because you have a right to your feelings, and to how you want to live your life.
Meaning--the fact that he had to discuss with you his anger over you "liking" a Facebook post related to alcohol is a red flag to me. I wouldn't be surprised if he's drinking more than you know.
Regardless, if it bothers you, you don't have to prove anything--just consider what it might mean for you.
And there's a difference between true concern over his health and concern over how your life is these days (he's irritable, tired all the time, you're walking on eggshells). Make sure you're honest with yourself about what's truly bugging you. Because you have a right to your feelings, and to how you want to live your life.
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I'm more concerned with his words/actions than I am with his alcohol consumption (let's remember, alcohol doesn't cause bad behavior, it only allows it more easily).
Regarding is consumption, as long as he isn't consuming more than his 2 glasses of wine a day, both the CDC and the NIH/NIAAA both say that 2 glasses of wine a day/14 glasses a week is moderate consumption.................:
CDC - Frequently Asked Questions - Alcohol ...........................:
What does moderate drinking mean?
According to the Dietary Guidelines for Americans, moderate alcohol consumption is defined as having up to 1 drink per day for women and up to 2 drinks per day for men...
https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-he...binge-drinking .....................:
Moderate alcohol consumption
According to the "Dietary Guidelines for Americans 2015-2020,” U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and U.S. Department of Agriculture, moderate drinking is up to 1 drink per day for women and up to 2 drinks per day for men.
(o:
Regarding is consumption, as long as he isn't consuming more than his 2 glasses of wine a day, both the CDC and the NIH/NIAAA both say that 2 glasses of wine a day/14 glasses a week is moderate consumption.................:
CDC - Frequently Asked Questions - Alcohol ...........................:
What does moderate drinking mean?
According to the Dietary Guidelines for Americans, moderate alcohol consumption is defined as having up to 1 drink per day for women and up to 2 drinks per day for men...
https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-he...binge-drinking .....................:
Moderate alcohol consumption
According to the "Dietary Guidelines for Americans 2015-2020,” U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and U.S. Department of Agriculture, moderate drinking is up to 1 drink per day for women and up to 2 drinks per day for men.
(o:
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One other thought...retiring can be a rough adjustment, especially if he was in a position of some prestige or power. It's hard to suddenly learn how to structure an empty day and it can be even harder to adjust to no longer feeling important...or even mattering at all. That life change, especially at a relatively young age, may have triggered him into self-medicating with alcohol...and now he may be addicted.
For the record, when challenged about our drinking, we boozer types have one universal response in common..."I only had two!"
For the record, when challenged about our drinking, we boozer types have one universal response in common..."I only had two!"
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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What Aries was talking about is actually what I was getting at. He may be feeling at loose ends, not sure what to do with himself and his time/his life now that he's retired. I was "retired" for four months before I started my present job, and I wasn't ready to hang it up. Thank goodness I was solidly sober by then, and I would have found SOMETHING to keep me busy and feeling useful, but a lot of people experience a real sense of loss and disorientation/depression when their primary identity is gone (job, parenting, whatever).
So it could be a temporary, situational thing, but still something that should be addressed, lest it become a downhill slide.
So it could be a temporary, situational thing, but still something that should be addressed, lest it become a downhill slide.
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Originally Posted by Ariesagain
For the record, when challenged about our drinking, we boozer types have one universal response in common..."I only had two!"
My drinking also didn't really get out of control until my mid forties. Also, it is not uncommon for retired folks to ramp up their drinking. I know my father started hitting the bar earlier and earlier after retirement to meet his buddies because he was bored sitting around the house and had no hobbies.
Good luck!
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