pebbles02

Are there any normies out there that have dated men with many years in sobriety that could just not commit after a year and also had intimacy issues? I dated a guy that was great, truly the best, and had so much in common with him. He had a problem being intimate. He saw me as classy and wife material and loved our steady forward progression together. Said it was the easiest relationship he'd ever had. (Said all his others were roller coasters of crazy) I was the only girl he had introduced to his parents. But he couldn't be intimate with me because he didn't want to objectify me. I tried to get him to explain what exactly that meant. But he never could. I was patient and understanding and gave him time to figure it out. He began to pull away towards the end when it was time to move forward in the relationship. i.e. say I love you which he still hadn't done. He said I was his best friend, wife and mother material, everything he could want but that he couldn't move forward and had no idea why-half of him wanted to-the other half didn't. He said he kept sabotaging our relationship and even in one night broke it off and then freaked out and changed his mind. There is clear confusion there. He said we had that amazing emotional connection but that he just couldn't sleep with me. Clearly trying to find a way to to connect the emotional side with the intimate side with a girl I believe he truly loves but perhaps doesn't know how to combine the 2 without objectifying me. anyone else out there have a similar problem?I saw some older forums where girls had almost the exact problem but would love to chat with someone who has recently experienced this. it breaks my heart

Hangnbyathread

Don't know if this will shed light on it or not, but I'm going through a bit of an exercise myself.

I'm starting to develop a nice relationship with a lady who is a phycisian. I've been reserved in demonstrating any physical assertion. Didn't think it was appropriate. Early on, still new, a physician etc.

And it's been like 2 dates so I'm not even the type to think it for a few dates anyway.

So after our second date, out of the blue 2 days later, I get a text, "Do you enjoy being with me" Yes very much I respond. "Well you haven't even tried to kiss me so I'm starting to wonder. I thought maybe you didn't fund me attractive". No I like you very much so far.

"Is it because I'm a doctor"? That was the first time that was asked and I admit it did play some part in being reserved towards her. Which until that moment I didn't give much thought to. So I said, yes I think it does but I'm also a gentleman and don't consider anything like that until I get to know the person.

Her response. I'm a woman first, and women like to have a confident man. And I'd like to kiss next time if you're OK with that. I'm starting to feel like you don't want to.

I said.....I think I can force my way through that next time....and laughed. She laughed back and said good.......you're kissing a woman not a doctor, please let me know that.

Message received.......I know we have plenty of that opened up now.

Men can consider intimacy as lessening what you are to them. I could admit to myself that she was right, because she was a doctor, I just thought about her differently than a woman. My bad. And I'll do my best to let her know......OK I Got This now!

LexieCat

All kinds of people out there have all kinds of issues. Like alcoholism, they are issues that the individual has to see as a problem and be motivated to change. I'm sorry for your heartbreak.

Ariesagain

Some people are asexual, some men have a Madonna/***** dichotomy, some men are gay but can't admit it to themselves...been there.

Maybe the most important thing to understand is that there isn't anything you can do or say to talk someone out of having this essential conflict and that it isn't personal...in this case, it really isn't you, it's him.

I'm so sorry for your hurt.

AnvilheadII

you don't mention alcohol, so i'm not sure why you picked a sober recovery forum, but....

there are a ton of reasons why he may have chosen not to have sex with you. maybe he was only able to perform with crazy psycho-b!tches, maybe he has ED, maybe he has mommy issues, daddy issues, maybe he's gay, maybe he's a porn addict. there is simply NO WAY to know. but it doesn't sound like both partners are HEALTHY in this relationship.....

LLLisa

I read that the man in question has "many years of sobriety"...

LexieCat

Ah, yes, missed that.

Well, I do know that a lot of alcoholics have had relationship issues--AA even recommends (in the Big Book) an inventory specifically related to sex. It could be that this guy had a history of "using" women and doesn't quite trust himself. That's pure speculation, but it's possible. Or he simply has other issues he has yet to address. Either way, it hurts for someone who's become attached to feel rejected in that way.

NYCDoglvr

I don't think this has anything to do with addiction. He's been saying he's not available for an intimate relationship and giving a bunch of nebulous reasons. When someone says "no", believe them and move on to someone who wants intimacy.

pebbles02

Thank you everyone for your insight. He has admitted to sabotaging many parts of his life-including our relationship because he is afraid to lose control and jump in completely. He thinks everything happens from 0 to 100, that once he says I love you, we move in, get engaged, get married and have kids all in a very quick progression.

We all know that is a slow process which I tried to explain. Introducing a girl (me) to his parents for the first time, his mom and i having a relationship, him meeting a girl he says is marriage and mother material, and that is his best friend perhaps was too much for him. Too overwhelming, too foreign of feelings. Perhaps finding someone that he considered a classy well-rounded girl (which was he said was the first time he;s dated someone like me) that he could really connect with, made it hard to have a sexual relationship. Who knows?

But I loved him and saw a future with him so I was patient. No one can fault me for that. @AnvilheadII I was healthy, I am healthy. I know this was a struggle for him so I let him take time to figure it out and give me more explanation. Unfortunately he was afraid to address it and be fully open about the intimacy block. I know I walked away from it with grace, dignity and patience because I loved him. I hope he can figure it out, because I want him to be happy and be able to fully jump in without being scared and sabotaging himself.

I know some girls have dealt with this. There was an older thread i read. Was just hoping that someone currently was dealing with the same situation. Thank you hangnbyathread for you story

pebbles02

NYCdoglover I have read up on this issue and talked with others and he even said himself it does have to do with addiction. I have talked with other addicts and they do say sabotaging is common and well as having intimacy issues. Would have saved me a lot of pain to just walk away at the beginning but we all know it's not a simple or black and white decision. especially when feelings are involved and you love everything about this person

AnvilheadII

pebbles, i'm sorry, i should have changed the stressor in my statement:
it doesn't sound like BOTH partners are healthy....i in no way meant to indicate that you were the not healthy one.

aliciagr

Interesting dilemma Pebbles.

I dont have an exact comparison but a few thoughts.

Id be careful about using his past addiction as the cause of behavior. In my experience, the addiction comes about due to underlying issues. The attachment issues may go deeper into his past. How he learned to relate to women, possibly family dynamics he gre up with?, maybe a period of time where he used them for physical pleasure but avoided emotional contact. Picking women who were not marriage material. And now if he has found someone who he cares about, who is deeper than what he knew,, he doesnt know how to combine friendship with sex. You see it with people who become friends first. Thats what me and my husband did. And it was scary to make the leap to romance for fear of losing friendship.

Has he ever considered therapy, or the two of you seeing a relationship expert together? Might explain a lot and help him deal with what's on his mind.

bluelily

This reminds me of the "relationship" I had prior to my xabf. At some point I became romantically involved with my best (platonic) male friend. There had always been some subtle sexual tension between us, only we never became physical, I believed it was because we didn´t want to complicate things and we got along so well as friends. Really, I thought I could count on him for anything, he was so kind and understanding and we could talk about everything.
At some moment I realized there was no reason for us not to become involved with each other, talked about it and he responded very enthousiastically.
Only the strange thing was that as time went on after this conversation (over the phone) we never met in person. I thought I had to be patient, not pressure him because I figured he probably had some trust issues or was too busy (he was working in another town at the moment, though he still came over almost every weekend so there was no real obstacle for him to see me). Things could´ve just withered away but he made sure to let me know he really cared about me and wanted me in his life. He messaged every day and sent me photos of himself, and asked for photos of me.
This went on for months and it was very confusing.
I didn´t know what the problem was and wasn´t sure how to ask. We talked over the phone and through webcam and he really seemed to want to be with me. When I asked him why he didn´t come over he came up with lots of excuses and explanations, said we´d do that another time.
We did meet months later, at that point I was eager to be physical with him. We met for about an hour and only kissed some because he "had to be somewhere else" and that was it. I never saw him again. We did keep in touch as we had done up to that point, him writing almost every day, sending pictures of himself, asking for pics of me. The only times we saw each other naked (sort of) was through webcam.
It was beyond weird.
I wondered if he was gay, involved with someone else, had commitment/mommy/whatever issues. It took a toll on my self esteem. Until I realized I was just wasting my time and it wasn´t my business to sort out his relationship problems.
So then I just send him a message saying Listen, I´ve fallen for you and this is completely unsatisfying for me so I´ll have to get away from this "thing" we´re having. I figured that way the ball was in his court and I didn´t have to analyze him anymore, try to understand what was going on, why I wasn´t worthy of a normal relationship!
He was completely taken aback, then tried to get me into these exchanges again but he never made any real effort to see me in person, just tried to talk himself out of seeing me but keeping me as some sort of romantic penpall. It was so absurd I finally told him Jeez, why can´t you just sleep with me like a normal person?
He was very ofended and broke all contact after that.
Only to resume contact some months afterwards. By then I knew not to answer him anymore and I´m happy I didn´t.

Well, at least it´s clear why an A, real-life bf seemed attractive to me after that experience.
I´ll never know why this so-called friend behaved like he did, but the thing I learned is that it doesn´t matter, you can´t negotiate your way into a physical relationship with someone who doesn´t want to have one with you! Although in theory they tell you you´re their lifelong dream, ideal woman, blahblah. The only thing that matters is what they do, much like with alcoholics.

teatreeoil007

It seems to me that the harder we try to 'figure things out' the more difficult they can become. But, some people are drawn to that which is complicated and bored with things that are simple. It's tempting to put labels on things and on people rather than just let them be and trust the process.

The '0-100' syndrome is also quite common. It's also known as the 'all or nothing' mindset...and I think you'll find it more with people who are very passionate-I could be wrong on that!

My best friend in college was at a dilemma with her now husband in that they began as strictly friend (on her part), but he knew he wanted to marry her from the moment he met her. They will be married for 31 years in Dec. Anyhow, she is the one who 'held out' on becoming intimate for quite some time....2 years in fact. Even though they were dating other people when their friendship formed.....her friends looking on knew these two people were right for one another and that it would not continue as 'just friends' forever....(we were right). It just took awhile for her to switch over from friends to intimacy.

Another thing is when a couple first starts having kids: It's sometimes hard to break out of "parent-mode" into intimacy-mode....the hubby can easily see wife as just "mom" and has a hard seeing her as sexy....

atalose

Usually when I hear someone use the word “confused” it’s because they are not accepting reality because there’s really nothing confusing about reality.

This man was clearly telling/showing you he was not emotionally available to you but you kept on with that journey and he was unprepared to accompany you for that ride.

His reason is really not important, knowing it, still isn’t going to change this situation.

He just wasn’t the one for you, as much as you wanted him to be, endings are sad and I’m sorry this ending is painful for you.

bluelily

I think one of the reasons why it´s hard to let go is because then you´d have to fully accept the rejection. It´s very painful to acknowledge that someone you are very attracted to doesn´t want to be physical with you. I don´t know if it´s a prejudice but in the back of my mind I always believed men will always take an opportunity to sleep with a woman if she´s moderately attractive to them. At least, that is what men will tell you. So having someone pulling you along, being difficult in this matter, is beyond humilliating.
I remember one moment in this situation when I realized I was feeling so stressed out, wanting to "understand", because it was too painful to accept that this guy just didn´t want to sleep with me! It was the worst rejection I could think of. I must confess afterwards I had a one night stand with a random guy just to feel normal again, to feel I wasn´t that repulsive as this friend was making me feel. It didn´t lead to a relationship but I was so relieved after this happened because it erased this whole idea that had been forming in my mind that I wasn´t worthy of the most basic human impulse and being found desirable.

redatlanta

There is quite a bit of information on the form regarding intimacy issue with A's and RA's.

Its not terribly uncommon to find sex issues with an RA.

There could be a myriad of issues from physical, to mental, to both.

But he couldn't be intimate with me because he didn't want to objectify me. I tried to get him to explain what exactly that meant. But he never could.

My guess is the reason he could not is because he made that up. It sounds like something he may have read, or a line from a movie. In other words the BS meter is in the redline.

I know you had deep feelings for him and I am sorry you are hurt. When a relationship begins with this kind of HUGE issue its just not a good sign. This man has issues with SEX not with YOU.....it could even be erectile dysfunction being the problem, and he doesn't want to acknowledge it.

Its good that you walked away...I think it would have plagued you the entirety of being with him.

LexieCat

Thanks for putting into words, red, what was bothering me about that statement. Exactly. It sounds EXACTLY like something he read that would sound like a "noble" reason for not wanting to get it on.

At least he didn't say he was considering the monastic life.

Heck, even Thomas Merton had a few good stories to tell in his autobiography.

pebbles02

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Starting to feel slightly better about this. I mean it just shouldn't have been so complicated and looking back it's just so bizarre to me. Hard to call it quits when you've invested a lot of time and seen him really struggle to explain this me-which he never really could. I put his needs above my own. And realizing it's not me that's the issue was hard, because it really makes you feel unwanted and self conscious as a woman. The need to feel and be desired is essential. I hear from his friends that he's still struggling with this. Thinking that dating and tinder was a fix but now realizing that his behavior needs to change and really figure out what the issue is. I love him and hope he can find some kind of insight. He's a great man-which is why I stuck around for almost a year.

NYCDoglvr

You're right, it even says in the Big Book that alcoholics aren't very good at relationships. Recovery is a long process (in my 25th year I can say it takes decades to change some things). That said, you deserve someone who is ready to commit to a real relationship. I understand hope but you've given it a lengthy period of time and nothing has changed. How will you feel in another year when nothing changes?