feel like a clam opening up
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feel like a clam opening up
I dont know what to title this, I feel like a clam shell opening up and its scary
I want to say thank you to everyone, especially a few of you who pushed me and challenge my thinking and shared how recovery worked for you.
I'm too confused to say a lot tonight. Ive come back to many things said to me here and I had a long conversation with a woman who runs our local alanon meeting, did that when I was in tears and now it feels very uncomfortable.
A couple updates. My husband did get released from the rehab and he was there almost a month. He that d it but says he was exposed to me the program.
He once again was set to go away to the rehab out f state he has been excited about but has never been able to clinch the entrance.
This time around, husband checked in with work and they really are anxious for him to come back. Know hes out on medical but not the details. He wan s to work and loves his work
His probation officer also requested a meeting. Not sure if you to remember how he spoke to me. Husband was going to be rode hard because he agreed to 180 of treatment plus 180 of just staying out of trouble. The guy old told me he was going to be forced to do meetings, get a sponsor, work the steps and get a time card stamped. He was going to be drug tested and be thrown in jail if he didnt follow the rules.
My husband met with him and he asked why he wants to go away o another rehab when he already did 30 days. He told him he doesnt expect trouble with hin , no priors or anything. He said he is required to show hes still in some kind of treatment and once a month therapy won't work but if he does 2 meetings per week. One of NA and one of AA and tu ns in his proof sheets then they will be cool. He said go to more than 2 and he won't even be drug tested. He has to check in once a week to drop off those proof slips.
After meeting with him, he decided to cancel rehab and called his dr to release him from medical leave. He started back up to work today.
That part s good but now he doesnt think he can fit therapy in with his required meetings.
As you probably assumed would happen after he got home he was incredibly sweet and had been self vd of sex for a month. He didnt force me to be clear. I love him despite it all and I wanted to be with him. I also know I should have waited because at this point he was still leaving for rehab and I felt we had our guided family week ahead of us to discuss things.
And now I'm crushed. I feel like what has any f f his been for and is he even dealing at all with the relapse or is I only damage control and how he suffered going through all this.
Plus I told him I had just restarted birth control so he needed to use protection and I will just say it down happen every time. I even went to walmart was going to get a plan b but was too ashamed with customers all sitting there. I was probably too Late anyway, it was after he dropped out of rehab agreement. Leaving walmart I was sitting in my car and all these thoughts hit me of what many hav said. He is an addict and he took the immediate reward of skipping out on rehab, he took the the immediate reward of having unprotected sex because it felt better to him, he will take he easy way of just sitting in meetings and although I honestly have my doubts they work very well. (I'm only being honest) he isnt even going to try.
And then later I called the alanon woman and she made a lot of sense. She agreed its all addict behavior and she explained like id never heard before or was not receptive to. He is different because his composition is that of an addict. I affects all he does, his lack of emotion, self centered behabior, quick fixes, easy way, lack of respect for rules and authority and morals and right and wrong. It was a little like I opened up my clam shell and heard this for the first time. Is it true? Is he different in his whole being because of this? And this is why people need to actively work a program or or is they fall back into this behavior. Its because he is addict first above all?
I feel sick. I dont know what's true. She was kind to me and I cried a lot. She says I need to decide if I want t be with an active addict. Even if he stays off drugs while on probation he is not in recovery and he will show his addiction in other ways. She told me ive been enabling him because ive denied he is an addict. Sure I said he needed help but I have not admitted he is an addict at his core. I am powerless to change this but denying it allow him to keep on denying it too. She said he has to reach a point where he admits this and is willing to surrender to it and then he can begin living n recovery. She is hinting that I need to force him to leave until he completes probation and says there is hope he will grab onto the program if its all he has. His parents are out and not enabling him, but she says I still am. She also says indeed to really read codependency book because its written all over me even giving in to my own impulses to sleep with him, make him happy too but denying any harm and abuse he caused me. Denying my pain and taking he easy way out. She asked how much of me I need give away before I admit I hav no self. She invited me to the meeting this week but I feel strange now I talked to her so much.
And I started not thinking I could get all this out to you here. Please tell me do you to think what she is telling me about my husband, addicts, addiction and that I'm enabling him? I need time alone to care for me. That part i know is true because I'm confused, torn up.
*
I want to say thank you to everyone, especially a few of you who pushed me and challenge my thinking and shared how recovery worked for you.
I'm too confused to say a lot tonight. Ive come back to many things said to me here and I had a long conversation with a woman who runs our local alanon meeting, did that when I was in tears and now it feels very uncomfortable.
A couple updates. My husband did get released from the rehab and he was there almost a month. He that d it but says he was exposed to me the program.
He once again was set to go away to the rehab out f state he has been excited about but has never been able to clinch the entrance.
This time around, husband checked in with work and they really are anxious for him to come back. Know hes out on medical but not the details. He wan s to work and loves his work
His probation officer also requested a meeting. Not sure if you to remember how he spoke to me. Husband was going to be rode hard because he agreed to 180 of treatment plus 180 of just staying out of trouble. The guy old told me he was going to be forced to do meetings, get a sponsor, work the steps and get a time card stamped. He was going to be drug tested and be thrown in jail if he didnt follow the rules.
My husband met with him and he asked why he wants to go away o another rehab when he already did 30 days. He told him he doesnt expect trouble with hin , no priors or anything. He said he is required to show hes still in some kind of treatment and once a month therapy won't work but if he does 2 meetings per week. One of NA and one of AA and tu ns in his proof sheets then they will be cool. He said go to more than 2 and he won't even be drug tested. He has to check in once a week to drop off those proof slips.
After meeting with him, he decided to cancel rehab and called his dr to release him from medical leave. He started back up to work today.
That part s good but now he doesnt think he can fit therapy in with his required meetings.
As you probably assumed would happen after he got home he was incredibly sweet and had been self vd of sex for a month. He didnt force me to be clear. I love him despite it all and I wanted to be with him. I also know I should have waited because at this point he was still leaving for rehab and I felt we had our guided family week ahead of us to discuss things.
And now I'm crushed. I feel like what has any f f his been for and is he even dealing at all with the relapse or is I only damage control and how he suffered going through all this.
Plus I told him I had just restarted birth control so he needed to use protection and I will just say it down happen every time. I even went to walmart was going to get a plan b but was too ashamed with customers all sitting there. I was probably too Late anyway, it was after he dropped out of rehab agreement. Leaving walmart I was sitting in my car and all these thoughts hit me of what many hav said. He is an addict and he took the immediate reward of skipping out on rehab, he took the the immediate reward of having unprotected sex because it felt better to him, he will take he easy way of just sitting in meetings and although I honestly have my doubts they work very well. (I'm only being honest) he isnt even going to try.
And then later I called the alanon woman and she made a lot of sense. She agreed its all addict behavior and she explained like id never heard before or was not receptive to. He is different because his composition is that of an addict. I affects all he does, his lack of emotion, self centered behabior, quick fixes, easy way, lack of respect for rules and authority and morals and right and wrong. It was a little like I opened up my clam shell and heard this for the first time. Is it true? Is he different in his whole being because of this? And this is why people need to actively work a program or or is they fall back into this behavior. Its because he is addict first above all?
I feel sick. I dont know what's true. She was kind to me and I cried a lot. She says I need to decide if I want t be with an active addict. Even if he stays off drugs while on probation he is not in recovery and he will show his addiction in other ways. She told me ive been enabling him because ive denied he is an addict. Sure I said he needed help but I have not admitted he is an addict at his core. I am powerless to change this but denying it allow him to keep on denying it too. She said he has to reach a point where he admits this and is willing to surrender to it and then he can begin living n recovery. She is hinting that I need to force him to leave until he completes probation and says there is hope he will grab onto the program if its all he has. His parents are out and not enabling him, but she says I still am. She also says indeed to really read codependency book because its written all over me even giving in to my own impulses to sleep with him, make him happy too but denying any harm and abuse he caused me. Denying my pain and taking he easy way out. She asked how much of me I need give away before I admit I hav no self. She invited me to the meeting this week but I feel strange now I talked to her so much.
And I started not thinking I could get all this out to you here. Please tell me do you to think what she is telling me about my husband, addicts, addiction and that I'm enabling him? I need time alone to care for me. That part i know is true because I'm confused, torn up.
*
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
it's not even about how much YOU are enabling as it is how much he is MANIPULATING you. and how much you are willing to allow him to do so.
he never really intended to go to that fancy rehab......he never really intended to get sober....he never intended to change......he knew you would bend and cave. he just had to make it SOUND like he was serious.
we say to watch their ACTIONS, not listen to their WORDS.
you wanted sex to be the bond that put you two back together.....he just wanted sex. and didn't CARE about the possible CONSEQUENCES of having unprotected sex.
he is not thinking about how ANY of this affects you, only what is in ti for him.
he never really intended to go to that fancy rehab......he never really intended to get sober....he never intended to change......he knew you would bend and cave. he just had to make it SOUND like he was serious.
we say to watch their ACTIONS, not listen to their WORDS.
you wanted sex to be the bond that put you two back together.....he just wanted sex. and didn't CARE about the possible CONSEQUENCES of having unprotected sex.
he is not thinking about how ANY of this affects you, only what is in ti for him.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Forget for a moment about enabling. That's about how what you do affects him.
Think about how what you're doing affects YOU. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I think your husband is dangerous to you. I think your accommodating him in the ways you are (allowing him to live with you, risking an unplanned and unwanted pregnancy) is dangerous to you.
Your husband is, from everything you've described, is an alcoholic/addict with no interest in getting sober and staying that way, and an abusive man who doesn't care what he does to you.
That's what I think.
Think about how what you're doing affects YOU. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I think your husband is dangerous to you. I think your accommodating him in the ways you are (allowing him to live with you, risking an unplanned and unwanted pregnancy) is dangerous to you.
Your husband is, from everything you've described, is an alcoholic/addict with no interest in getting sober and staying that way, and an abusive man who doesn't care what he does to you.
That's what I think.
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Northwest
Posts: 4,215
I'm glad to hear from you...I've been wondering how things were going.
When you're a person who's always been fortunate enough to be in circumstances you could control, by hard work or intellectual analysis, when you first confront a situation that is completely immune to both and that changes everything you assume about your life as you want it to be...it's brutally painful. And we keep going back to what we've always done...analyze and put in more effort.
With an addict, as they say in my part of the world, that's just pissing down a well. Yes, right now he still has a job waiting because they don't know yet. They will. He's already alienated his parents. So it will end up being him, his addiction, and you...you will be less and less a person to him and more and more just the thing he uses to get what he wants.
There comes a tipping point in addiction where the person is effectively gone and only the addiction remains. Getting back from there requires a superhuman effort even when the addict is committed to working on it...and your husband clearly is not.
I'm so glad you've found some in-person support.
Sending you a hug.
P.S. Were you there for the meeting with the probation officer? It may not have gone down the way your husband is saying it did...
When you're a person who's always been fortunate enough to be in circumstances you could control, by hard work or intellectual analysis, when you first confront a situation that is completely immune to both and that changes everything you assume about your life as you want it to be...it's brutally painful. And we keep going back to what we've always done...analyze and put in more effort.
With an addict, as they say in my part of the world, that's just pissing down a well. Yes, right now he still has a job waiting because they don't know yet. They will. He's already alienated his parents. So it will end up being him, his addiction, and you...you will be less and less a person to him and more and more just the thing he uses to get what he wants.
There comes a tipping point in addiction where the person is effectively gone and only the addiction remains. Getting back from there requires a superhuman effort even when the addict is committed to working on it...and your husband clearly is not.
I'm so glad you've found some in-person support.
Sending you a hug.
P.S. Were you there for the meeting with the probation officer? It may not have gone down the way your husband is saying it did...
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
aliciagr....yes, the alanon lady is right on.
I suggest that you go back and read all of your prior threads...over and over.....
Lots of people get through the probation period and then drink as soon as they get off probation.
Sitting in a couple of AA meetings per week does not mean that they absorb the benefits by osmosis. Like, just sitting in a garage does not make a car....
It requires intensive work and a wiliness to do what it takes--without whining and complaining......
Unwilliness to not use protection is about as selfish and disrespectful of y ou as it can get......
dandylion
I suggest that you go back and read all of your prior threads...over and over.....
Lots of people get through the probation period and then drink as soon as they get off probation.
Sitting in a couple of AA meetings per week does not mean that they absorb the benefits by osmosis. Like, just sitting in a garage does not make a car....
It requires intensive work and a wiliness to do what it takes--without whining and complaining......
Unwilliness to not use protection is about as selfish and disrespectful of y ou as it can get......
dandylion
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Alicia....there is a song, performed by Bill Withers......the title is "Use Me"
It is the song of the co-dependent.....written from a co-dependent's point of view about the relationship.....
You might take a listen.....(Bill Withers is terrific)
www.youtube.com/warch?v=NcFaVFTDwcs
It is the song of the co-dependent.....written from a co-dependent's point of view about the relationship.....
You might take a listen.....(Bill Withers is terrific)
www.youtube.com/warch?v=NcFaVFTDwcs
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Bill Withers Use Me (audio) Use Me (audio) Music Video | MetroLyrics
Try this one.....this one should work!!!
sorry about the other one...
dandylion
Try this one.....this one should work!!!
sorry about the other one...
dandylion
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
Yes I agree with the Al Anon woman. This is a pervasive pattern with him in the 3 recovery programs he has either attended, or planned to.
1) He described as ineffective. The Director of that program told you that he was not in recovery, and that he saw nothing from your AH to indicate willingness to get sober. The Director was blamed for "wanting money"
2) He got drunk, stole and assaulted his parents resulting in jail and a 30 day stay in rehab not of choice. #2 Rehab was not attended.
3) He begged and promised and plead with you to help him get out and get to the Rehab of "choice". There, he would be able to attend programs he was interested in and felt he would be able to achieve success.
You did move mountains to get him out. He then successfully conned his probation officer into agreeing to let him go back to work. Is not going to to the rehab you worked so hard to get him into, and is now saying he is too busy for therapy.
In a further move proving his selfishness, he had unprotected sex with you WHEN YOU ASKED HIM NOT TO, putting you at risk for an unplanned, unwanted pregnancy in which the timing really couldn't be worse.
I agree with Lexie, I believe he is dangerous to you. I see nothing he has done since he got home that says otherwise. Being nice - lets see how long that last.
1) He described as ineffective. The Director of that program told you that he was not in recovery, and that he saw nothing from your AH to indicate willingness to get sober. The Director was blamed for "wanting money"
2) He got drunk, stole and assaulted his parents resulting in jail and a 30 day stay in rehab not of choice. #2 Rehab was not attended.
3) He begged and promised and plead with you to help him get out and get to the Rehab of "choice". There, he would be able to attend programs he was interested in and felt he would be able to achieve success.
You did move mountains to get him out. He then successfully conned his probation officer into agreeing to let him go back to work. Is not going to to the rehab you worked so hard to get him into, and is now saying he is too busy for therapy.
In a further move proving his selfishness, he had unprotected sex with you WHEN YOU ASKED HIM NOT TO, putting you at risk for an unplanned, unwanted pregnancy in which the timing really couldn't be worse.
I agree with Lexie, I believe he is dangerous to you. I see nothing he has done since he got home that says otherwise. Being nice - lets see how long that last.
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 844
Thanks. I need time I guess. Very confused but I thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Its doubtful I could have got pregnant because we were trying prior to his relapse, before we moved and it didnt happen. That was hard on us both. I'm sure in his mind he figured there was no risk and again what I was asking wasnt necessary. Minimizing my feelings I know.
I think his probation officer probably told him the truth and lied to me. He also told him see that by going to meetings it would smooth things over with his wife because women want to see action being taken. He hates the meetings so I dont dont think he would go if he didnt feel it was the easiest way out for him.
I called about setting up another therapy spot for myself. Got one for Monday.
I dont feel in danger of him. Maybe I am. I dont know up or down right now. He knows I'm mad and said he would sleep in the other bedroom. I havent asked him too yet. His last words were maybe he can get into therapy once he is settled back at work and figures out how to handle the time it takes to go to meetings. He has gone to 3 since he met the probation guy last week and tomorrow turns in his proof of attendance.
Its doubtful I could have got pregnant because we were trying prior to his relapse, before we moved and it didnt happen. That was hard on us both. I'm sure in his mind he figured there was no risk and again what I was asking wasnt necessary. Minimizing my feelings I know.
I think his probation officer probably told him the truth and lied to me. He also told him see that by going to meetings it would smooth things over with his wife because women want to see action being taken. He hates the meetings so I dont dont think he would go if he didnt feel it was the easiest way out for him.
I called about setting up another therapy spot for myself. Got one for Monday.
I dont feel in danger of him. Maybe I am. I dont know up or down right now. He knows I'm mad and said he would sleep in the other bedroom. I havent asked him too yet. His last words were maybe he can get into therapy once he is settled back at work and figures out how to handle the time it takes to go to meetings. He has gone to 3 since he met the probation guy last week and tomorrow turns in his proof of attendance.
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,699
You sounds like you are getting a clearer picture of who he actually is - today.
I'm glad you have someone local to reach out to - keep going to meet with her, please! For your own health and sanity...she sounds wise, caring and helpful.
What if you stop listening to what your husband says? I mean, you can listen for the sake of not arguing, but internally - just completely stop. You cannot believe anything he says. Can you only pay attention to the things he does? His words are meaningless because his actions are the opposite of what he says.... and I, like everyone else am worried for your safety with him.
(((HUGS)))
I'm glad you have someone local to reach out to - keep going to meet with her, please! For your own health and sanity...she sounds wise, caring and helpful.
What if you stop listening to what your husband says? I mean, you can listen for the sake of not arguing, but internally - just completely stop. You cannot believe anything he says. Can you only pay attention to the things he does? His words are meaningless because his actions are the opposite of what he says.... and I, like everyone else am worried for your safety with him.
(((HUGS)))
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Alicia...I have a beautiful daughter that I thought. for a while, was the "swine flu (due to the vomiting).....I was on birth control pills and my baby was only 5months old. I was so shocked to find myself pregnant!!
I will send you a PM.....
It would benefit you to use additional birth control of your own if you keep sleeping with him.....
dandylion
I will send you a PM.....
It would benefit you to use additional birth control of your own if you keep sleeping with him.....
dandylion
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 844
I feel like there are different roads and I dont know which to take. The alanon view is supported by many and I hav resisted it and now I'm questioning if its true. I remember someone here in recovery being tough and saying he chose to relapse. And its true he chose to not grab hold of 2 rehabs so far and accept some of thslese ideas. I feel at this moment like I dont want to accept it because I dont want to be with someone who fits that description.
The alanon lady is nice but she is about 60 and I dont feel a connection with her to really share. All the group here is older and ive seen a few younger people come and go. I feel alone there too if it makes sense.
The alanon lady is nice but she is about 60 and I dont feel a connection with her to really share. All the group here is older and ive seen a few younger people come and go. I feel alone there too if it makes sense.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Well, if you keep the focus on things like ages and other superficial differences, yeah, you will feel alone. OTOH, if you identify with some of the feelings and emotions people are going through--their fears and hopes--you will see that those transcend the superficial differences.
And, incidentally, not wanting something to be true doesn't make it NOT be true.
And, incidentally, not wanting something to be true doesn't make it NOT be true.
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
aliciagr....yes, the alanon lady is right on.
I suggest that you go back and read all of your prior threads...over and over.....
dandylion
I suggest that you go back and read all of your prior threads...over and over.....
dandylion
Once the wall of denial starts to crumbly it becomes to hard NOT to see reality. And the more we try to un-see that harsh reality we remain in a state of confusion because there is nothing at all confusing about reality.
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Alicia....the best advice I have gotten in life was from my grandmother...as well a countless women that were older than me. I feel a love and indebtedness to them.....
Good advice and truth do not have an AGE!!
I hear you fighting with us...just as your husband is fighting treatment for himself......
Whatever "road" you take....co-dependency will take you down....just as addiction will take down the addict.....
So, it is important to take SOME road and TRUST THE PROCESS.....
Until you are able to do that...I fear that you will run yourself ragged and feel eternally confused......
By the way...since you brought it up---I am 60, at least!
dandylion
Good advice and truth do not have an AGE!!
I hear you fighting with us...just as your husband is fighting treatment for himself......
Whatever "road" you take....co-dependency will take you down....just as addiction will take down the addict.....
So, it is important to take SOME road and TRUST THE PROCESS.....
Until you are able to do that...I fear that you will run yourself ragged and feel eternally confused......
By the way...since you brought it up---I am 60, at least!
dandylion
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Join Date: Mar 2016
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It was huge for me to call her. What I meant was I know she can explain a lot to me and there is a line of what's her business anyway. I mean she runs the meeting but its only her place to explain the ideas and tools to me. Im ok with that and I feel she likes it like that too. She didnt really care it felt to hear how I was feeling or interactions with him. It was more like these are the ideas and this is how far off you are. This is the ideal for him and he is way over here. This is addict behavior and see he fits all of it. This is the projection coming up unless you make changes now. And I know I can be frustrating but she just left it sort of like you will change when your ready. I dont even know what Ineed maybe. Too stupid, naive, resistant to know.
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I'm sorry didnt mean to offend anyone with age. I hope I explained better above. It may be lesson age issue than her holding up her own boundaries of involvement? I probably need that because I know I get bogged down in some details and feelings others would say are unimportant.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
No Alicia...not "to stupid and naïve"......"resistant"--Yes...lol
You are resistant because you are still swimming in the River in Egypt....
dandylion
***helpful hint: When a person is drowning....and someone throws them a lifesaver...it is best not to disparage the quality of the lifesaver...
You are resistant because you are still swimming in the River in Egypt....
dandylion
***helpful hint: When a person is drowning....and someone throws them a lifesaver...it is best not to disparage the quality of the lifesaver...
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,572
An addict is seduced by the "addictive voice." The part of his/her brain that says to fight HARD to keep things just as they are, because nobody wants change, or to have to confront ugly, messy things.
We codie enablers are EXACTLY THE SAME. We have a "codependent voice." It tells us to hang on to the way things are. After all, things could be worse. Or after, all we LOVE our qualifiers. Or after all, our qualifiers aren't as bad as others. Or after all, we did make vows before God. I could go on and on and on. Just as an addict has to engage in the painful, uncomfortable exercise of moving outside the comfort zone of addiction toward emotional health, we have to engage in the painful, uncomfortable exercise of moving outside our OWN comfort zones of enabling, excusing, and tolerating. We make excuses for why we can't seek help, or why we can't change our own behavior.
Yes, it's true that you will get better when you are ready. But the onus is also on you to make some effort--to push yourself even just a little outside of what is comfortable and familiar, toward a life where you value yourself and your own emotional well-being far too much to put up with this crap. Recovery doesn't just happen on its own...
We codie enablers are EXACTLY THE SAME. We have a "codependent voice." It tells us to hang on to the way things are. After all, things could be worse. Or after, all we LOVE our qualifiers. Or after all, our qualifiers aren't as bad as others. Or after all, we did make vows before God. I could go on and on and on. Just as an addict has to engage in the painful, uncomfortable exercise of moving outside the comfort zone of addiction toward emotional health, we have to engage in the painful, uncomfortable exercise of moving outside our OWN comfort zones of enabling, excusing, and tolerating. We make excuses for why we can't seek help, or why we can't change our own behavior.
Yes, it's true that you will get better when you are ready. But the onus is also on you to make some effort--to push yourself even just a little outside of what is comfortable and familiar, toward a life where you value yourself and your own emotional well-being far too much to put up with this crap. Recovery doesn't just happen on its own...
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