When the A loses control
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 384
When the A loses control
I've been talking closely to a recovered A and he's been helping me through this situation immensely. He's the father of one of my best friends and I trust his word. Something we spoke about over the course of the last week has been a little heavy on my mind. He said that my ex was trying to show he has control in small ways, because lately I've been saying and doing things that show he's losing control over me.
I'm a little confused and scared by this. As a Codie I thought that I was the one with control issues, but it seems it can go both ways.
Does anyone have experience or input on dealing with an A who is losing control of one of their enablers and acting out?
Makes me sad I'm talking about someone I shared my life with like this. I wondered earlier how it got so bad and the answer came immediately, because it was never that great to begin with.
I ran towards my ex in order to get away from my father. I thought my ex would save me and we'd live happily ever after. I let a lot of things slide that I shouldn't have. I had no self respect. I used him. Being with him was a much better alternative at the time. I feel like he took advantage of my vulnerability and manipulated me based on my dreams. I fell for every line hook line and sinker. I really thought it was real. Up to the very end
I'm a little confused and scared by this. As a Codie I thought that I was the one with control issues, but it seems it can go both ways.
Does anyone have experience or input on dealing with an A who is losing control of one of their enablers and acting out?
Makes me sad I'm talking about someone I shared my life with like this. I wondered earlier how it got so bad and the answer came immediately, because it was never that great to begin with.
I ran towards my ex in order to get away from my father. I thought my ex would save me and we'd live happily ever after. I let a lot of things slide that I shouldn't have. I had no self respect. I used him. Being with him was a much better alternative at the time. I feel like he took advantage of my vulnerability and manipulated me based on my dreams. I fell for every line hook line and sinker. I really thought it was real. Up to the very end
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Central O-H-I-O
Posts: 1,689
Expanding, here's my take. My AW has low self-esteem, trust issues, etc. I think she feels out-of-control because she doesn't know what she wants in life, she's depressed, she feels low.
So, in response to that, they try to control others to make themselves feel like they have power. Now, if they put more energy into fighting their own demons and trying to control that - we all wouldn't be here. But, it gives her a sense of worth when she can try to control me and have 'power' over me. It's a defense mechanism I think.
I probably didn't explain this well, but I hope you get the idea. Many A's are also codies themselves, so the need to control is inherent.
COD
So, in response to that, they try to control others to make themselves feel like they have power. Now, if they put more energy into fighting their own demons and trying to control that - we all wouldn't be here. But, it gives her a sense of worth when she can try to control me and have 'power' over me. It's a defense mechanism I think.
I probably didn't explain this well, but I hope you get the idea. Many A's are also codies themselves, so the need to control is inherent.
COD
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I don't think control issues are, per se, an alcoholic trait. Alcoholics usually want to control other people just enough so they don't get in the way of their drinking. Or, sometimes, to prevent loss of a relationship that, to them, represents "normality" ("I can't be that bad because my g/f is still with me").
If they are controlling in OTHER ways (e.g., who you see, what you do, what you spend, etc.) it's more likely to be a "power and control" issue--which is what abusive people have in abundance. Sometimes that manifests more readily when the alcoholic is drinking (e.g., coming out in violent behavior where maybe it doesn't ordinarily get to that point).
So I don't know which category your ex falls into, but it certainly seems you're much better off without him.
If they are controlling in OTHER ways (e.g., who you see, what you do, what you spend, etc.) it's more likely to be a "power and control" issue--which is what abusive people have in abundance. Sometimes that manifests more readily when the alcoholic is drinking (e.g., coming out in violent behavior where maybe it doesn't ordinarily get to that point).
So I don't know which category your ex falls into, but it certainly seems you're much better off without him.
Forum Leader
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
When my late husband stopped enabling his alcoholic/addict son, the reaction was sometimes subtle attempts at manipulation and sometimes violent anger.
It's that last bit you need to be careful of...
Please take care!
S
It's that last bit you need to be careful of...
Please take care!
S
Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 99
Originally Posted by Seren 
When my late husband stopped enabling his alcoholic/addict son, the reaction was sometimes subtle attempts at manipulation and sometimes violent anger.
It's that last bit you need to be careful of...
Please take care!
S
It's that last bit you need to be careful of...
Please take care!
S
Read my thread to see what that last bit can look like.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,792
My AXH hated when I would do something that he couldn't control.
I remember going to a parties toward the end of our marriage. AXH was always negotiating with me about what time we could leave. I hated it and would have loved to have taken two cars because we were always the last ones to leave, so he always won. I eventually started asking friends to drive me home and just leave him. I loved it, he hated it. (Control)
I remember going to a parties toward the end of our marriage. AXH was always negotiating with me about what time we could leave. I hated it and would have loved to have taken two cars because we were always the last ones to leave, so he always won. I eventually started asking friends to drive me home and just leave him. I loved it, he hated it. (Control)
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
E, I don't think XAH had "control over me" issues in the sense Lexie mentions in her post, but he definitely had a lot invested in controlling what I saw him do/heard him say/thought about him, if that distinction makes sense to you at all. The facade he constructed was very thorough and it took me a loooong time to see thru it, altho he was definitely helped along by the fact that I didn't particularly want or try to see thru it for most of that time.
One of the creepiest moments was shortly after he'd moved out (at my request). He had come back to pick up some last items, and we were standing at the door. I don't remember exactly what we were talking about, but I remember I said "I want you to know I have never purposely told you something that wasn't true." He got this strange, distant look on his face and in a cold voice that I scarcely recognized said "but I lied to you all. the. time. You knew exactly what I wanted you to know, and you saw exactly what I wanted you to see. I watched you and listened to you and I always knew what you were doing, but you never had a clue what I was up to."
Expanding, I could not have been more freaked out if his head had spun 360. It was weird, and I don't think I'll ever forget it. In fact, I hope I don't forget it! It was one weird blip in 20+ years together, but it just freaked me out...
One of the creepiest moments was shortly after he'd moved out (at my request). He had come back to pick up some last items, and we were standing at the door. I don't remember exactly what we were talking about, but I remember I said "I want you to know I have never purposely told you something that wasn't true." He got this strange, distant look on his face and in a cold voice that I scarcely recognized said "but I lied to you all. the. time. You knew exactly what I wanted you to know, and you saw exactly what I wanted you to see. I watched you and listened to you and I always knew what you were doing, but you never had a clue what I was up to."
Expanding, I could not have been more freaked out if his head had spun 360. It was weird, and I don't think I'll ever forget it. In fact, I hope I don't forget it! It was one weird blip in 20+ years together, but it just freaked me out...
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
I think honeypig summed up my experience pretty well - my RAH wasn't so much interested in control over ME as he was control over his façade/lies/manipulations. His AV needed to control his environment in order to protect his secretly growing alcohol dependency. He loved nothing more than for me to go my own way, doing my own thing & ignore him altogether so that he could do as he pleased. Any external display of control was always more about creating smoke & mirrors to distract me from whatever he was really up to.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 384
Thank you guys, that actually clears some things up. I never thought of my exA as "controlling" per say but there were controlling... elements. It was a feeling I had but no real proof.
I think what my friend's father was trying to say was that, he wasn't trying to control me but control certain things to make him feel as though he had power. He's very into mind tricks and manipulations
I think what my friend's father was trying to say was that, he wasn't trying to control me but control certain things to make him feel as though he had power. He's very into mind tricks and manipulations
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,388
Speaking from experience, when I left, my ex's behavior became chaotic. I do not think he was doing things to control me, at least not anymore, but to control and maintain the reality he created. For example, he did not tell his family we got divorced, and he kept lying about his health issues (he had a "small heart attack," and actually it was alcohol withdrawal - 5 or 6 times since January, or even more, at certain point, you stop counting). All I know now is that he lies a lot. He has these "euphemisms" that he uses.
What Lexie said:
"Alcoholics usually want to control other people just enough so they don't get in the way of their drinking. Or, sometimes, to prevent loss of a relationship that, to them, represents "normality" ("I can't be that bad because my g/f is still with me")."
Exactly like this, but more bizarre. Jaw-dropping.
The last paragraph you wrote could have been mine. Only, I was not exactly running away from my dad, but our family structure was shaken after my mom died. And I thought that a relationship would help me heal.
Do something nice for yourself today. Something to distract you. We may wonder and wonder and wonder. But it helps no one.
What Lexie said:
"Alcoholics usually want to control other people just enough so they don't get in the way of their drinking. Or, sometimes, to prevent loss of a relationship that, to them, represents "normality" ("I can't be that bad because my g/f is still with me")."
Exactly like this, but more bizarre. Jaw-dropping.
The last paragraph you wrote could have been mine. Only, I was not exactly running away from my dad, but our family structure was shaken after my mom died. And I thought that a relationship would help me heal.
Do something nice for yourself today. Something to distract you. We may wonder and wonder and wonder. But it helps no one.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 982
Originally Posted by LexieCat
Or, sometimes, to prevent loss of a relationship that, to them, represents "normality" ("I can't be that bad because my g/f is still with me").
Or controlling the way that other people saw me, so that I looked like the crazy one with all the problems (not denying that I have my fair share of issues too), couldn't possibly be him. He made sure everyone else saw only the charismatic, chivalrous, funny side of him. Very few saw the side that I did...
Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 223
^ I had the same experiences. If I was labeled as crazy then nobody would listen when I asked for help. Like you, nobody else saw the side that I did-that was only saved for us at home. My first husband was an alcoholic but was not violent. The second? Different story!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 202
Originally Posted by Expanding
Something we spoke about over the course of the last week has been a little heavy on my mind. He said that my ex was trying to show he has control in small ways, because lately I've been saying and doing things that show he's losing control over me.
I'm a little confused and scared by this. As a Codie I thought that I was the one with control issues, but it seems it can go both ways.
Does anyone have experience or input on dealing with an A who is losing control of one of their enablers and acting out?
I'm a little confused and scared by this. As a Codie I thought that I was the one with control issues, but it seems it can go both ways.
Does anyone have experience or input on dealing with an A who is losing control of one of their enablers and acting out?
The trigger for it in her case was me trying to intervene when my own doctor told me I needed to get my ex into rehab immediately.
By me intervening, I was signalling loud and clear to her that I was not going to participate in the facade that her drinking was not a life threatening problem, which she was trying to convince herself and everyone else.
So I signalled loud and clear that I was not going to allow her drinking to control my decisions.
At that point, she went on the most destructive rampage I had ever seen, convinced her family of origin that I was the cause of her stress and that was why she was drinking etc etc. It was ludicrous. This all happened within an hour of me trying to convince her to go to rehab.
Interestingly, narcissists do the same thing. Although not all drinkers become narcissistic, a lot of drinkers behave in a completely self centered way that is a lot like narcissism.
This article talks about how narcissists panic when they lose control over another person, and there are parallels here to alcoholics losing control ...
The Narcissist Out of Control - The Narcissistic Life
Sociopaths do a similar thing ...
https://datingasociopath.com/2014/05...g-is-possible/
Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 202
Originally Posted by Kboys
Or controlling the way that other people saw me, so that I looked like the crazy one with all the problems (not denying that I have my fair share of issues too), couldn't possibly be him. ... Very few saw the side that I did...
When I intervened and tried to convince my ex to accept treatment for her drinking, my ex immediately told her family of origin that I was suffering from depression and anxiety, which was something that I was ashamed of and did not want her family to know about.
However, I was not suffering clinical depression, but had situational depression - a short term form of overwhelm in response to an overwhelming situation - the major cause of which was her drinking.
The definition of situational depression at ...
https://www.elementsbehavioralhealth...al-depression/
... reads ...
Situational depression is a short-term form of depression that can occur in the aftermath of various traumatic changes in your normal life, including divorce, retirement, loss of a job and the death of a relative or close friend. Doctors sometimes refer to the condition as adjustment disorder. A person with situational depression may have symptoms that are more or less identical to someone with clinical depression; however, there are certain key differences between the effects and treatment of these two disorders. ...
Most people with situational depression develop symptoms within roughly 90 days following the event that triggers the condition. Depending on the individual, these symptoms can include listlessness, feelings of hopelessness, sleeping difficulties, sadness, recurring bouts of crying, unfocused anxiety, unfocused worry, loss of concentration, withdrawal from normal work or leisure activities and withdrawal from friends and family. ...
In many circumstances, mild cases of situational depression will disappear on their own if you take certain steps to limit their effects. Potentially helpful steps include getting regular exercise, eating a nutritionally well-balanced diet, establishing regular sleeping habits, discussing your situation with close friends or loved ones, joining a formal support group and participating in a hobby or other pleasurable leisure activity.
Most people with situational depression develop symptoms within roughly 90 days following the event that triggers the condition. Depending on the individual, these symptoms can include listlessness, feelings of hopelessness, sleeping difficulties, sadness, recurring bouts of crying, unfocused anxiety, unfocused worry, loss of concentration, withdrawal from normal work or leisure activities and withdrawal from friends and family. ...
In many circumstances, mild cases of situational depression will disappear on their own if you take certain steps to limit their effects. Potentially helpful steps include getting regular exercise, eating a nutritionally well-balanced diet, establishing regular sleeping habits, discussing your situation with close friends or loved ones, joining a formal support group and participating in a hobby or other pleasurable leisure activity.
With me then labelled as having "a disorder", one of her parents then used my depression and anxiety as reasons for why I was "not suitable" to be my ex's spouse.
So at the very moment that I absolutely needed some love and support, the support I had was taken away from me in order to point the finger of blame at me.
The whole episode was absolutely disgusting behaviour.
For anyone to treat someone suffering from any form of depression like that is truly vile.
A person feeling depressed and anxious, because their spouse's drinking is destroying everything and the drinking could very easily claim their spouse's life, is one of the most natural and logical consequences of alcoholism.
And yet, a way was found to spin this around and use it as a weapon against me. The sober spouse suffering the effects of the alcoholic's drinking suddenly becomes the cause of the drinking. Ta da !
A drinker whose brain has been hijacked by alcohol can claim the brain hijacking as some excuse for acting in this way. Their sober family can not.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
