Boundaries vs. Control?
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 27
Boundaries vs. Control?
Hi everyone,
I haven't been on in a while, but I've been reading. My ABF has been in rehab since early March, out of state. I have seen him since he's in florida very close to where I and (possibly, I'm up in the air) he are moving. The majority of my family lives there and we have discussed moving there for a year and a half. After his last major relapse, I told him that I was moving with or without him and put my house up for sale. As it turned out, the only rehab of the dozens we called that accepted his insurance and had an affordable copay happened to be 20 minutes from my parents, so I'd drove him down after 2 weeks in detox/partial rehab aND so far he has stuck with it and wants to stay there with me.
He's in a phase where he is allowed to work, so he's working for my father alongside my brother for now until he gets his license back (dui). I just had a gut feeling that he wasn't entirely embracing his recovery but when I ask about it he gets angry and says he's sick of talking about it and he obviously wants sobriety or he wouldn't be there... so I backed off and looked for a ions instead. We talk several times daily aND his moods are pretty stale often.
Well, today I sold my house and we talked about me being there in a couple of weeks to find a rental for now and me moving after closing in June. Seemed exciting, but I just have this nagging gut feeling that him being away from his son in nj and not being in a program (I don't care what one as long as he is comfortable with it) makes him a huge relapse and flight risk. It scares me and he knows that.
My brother told me today that my ABF told him that he is planning to have a beer once he's out of rehab and that since vodka is his problem beer occasionally should be fine. Um, what?! I promised my brother I wouldn't tell him what he said so I approached it like this:
Now that the sale is going through and im.looking for places, I think we need to have a serious talk about where you stand on wanting sobrietya. I know the discussion irritates you, but I need to know so that I can make decisions for myself and my family going forward.
He said that he can't promise he won't have a beer every now and then
I asked why he would be willing to put himself at risk of declining again, then dropped the lecture. He said that I was controlling and that he was not going to sit around and let me try to control everything he does... here's where my question of boundary vs control comes in.
My response was this: when we were sitting with your counselor for the family session you said that you know that if you drink than you're going to lose me. You're right, I can not control what you do, but I have to control my own life and watching you decline again and going through this again is not something I want to have to go through for myself. If you do not intend on staying completely away from alcohol like we talked about and you promised, I can not be part of that. Of course it's your choice and it's not me telling you what to do. If you choose to drink, it will be your decision alone, however,It's my boundry andy limit to not be with an active alcoholic. I love you no matter what, but the choice to be with me has to include sobriety. I'm sorry, but it's where I stand.
I don't know his response yet, he turned his phone in for the night but I know he saw the text. Was what I responded with really a boundary or is it actually control? The line blurs for me and he is paranoid about being controlled or questioned on anything, especially this.
Ugh, now to come to terms with standing firm on this and being willing to break my own heart... gotta love addiction
I haven't been on in a while, but I've been reading. My ABF has been in rehab since early March, out of state. I have seen him since he's in florida very close to where I and (possibly, I'm up in the air) he are moving. The majority of my family lives there and we have discussed moving there for a year and a half. After his last major relapse, I told him that I was moving with or without him and put my house up for sale. As it turned out, the only rehab of the dozens we called that accepted his insurance and had an affordable copay happened to be 20 minutes from my parents, so I'd drove him down after 2 weeks in detox/partial rehab aND so far he has stuck with it and wants to stay there with me.
He's in a phase where he is allowed to work, so he's working for my father alongside my brother for now until he gets his license back (dui). I just had a gut feeling that he wasn't entirely embracing his recovery but when I ask about it he gets angry and says he's sick of talking about it and he obviously wants sobriety or he wouldn't be there... so I backed off and looked for a ions instead. We talk several times daily aND his moods are pretty stale often.
Well, today I sold my house and we talked about me being there in a couple of weeks to find a rental for now and me moving after closing in June. Seemed exciting, but I just have this nagging gut feeling that him being away from his son in nj and not being in a program (I don't care what one as long as he is comfortable with it) makes him a huge relapse and flight risk. It scares me and he knows that.
My brother told me today that my ABF told him that he is planning to have a beer once he's out of rehab and that since vodka is his problem beer occasionally should be fine. Um, what?! I promised my brother I wouldn't tell him what he said so I approached it like this:
Now that the sale is going through and im.looking for places, I think we need to have a serious talk about where you stand on wanting sobrietya. I know the discussion irritates you, but I need to know so that I can make decisions for myself and my family going forward.
He said that he can't promise he won't have a beer every now and then
I asked why he would be willing to put himself at risk of declining again, then dropped the lecture. He said that I was controlling and that he was not going to sit around and let me try to control everything he does... here's where my question of boundary vs control comes in.
My response was this: when we were sitting with your counselor for the family session you said that you know that if you drink than you're going to lose me. You're right, I can not control what you do, but I have to control my own life and watching you decline again and going through this again is not something I want to have to go through for myself. If you do not intend on staying completely away from alcohol like we talked about and you promised, I can not be part of that. Of course it's your choice and it's not me telling you what to do. If you choose to drink, it will be your decision alone, however,It's my boundry andy limit to not be with an active alcoholic. I love you no matter what, but the choice to be with me has to include sobriety. I'm sorry, but it's where I stand.
I don't know his response yet, he turned his phone in for the night but I know he saw the text. Was what I responded with really a boundary or is it actually control? The line blurs for me and he is paranoid about being controlled or questioned on anything, especially this.
Ugh, now to come to terms with standing firm on this and being willing to break my own heart... gotta love addiction
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Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 4
I don't see your response as controlling. I see it as setting limits that were previously agreed upon as well as a way for you to protect yourself, even if it means you are breaking your own heart to do so. I hope whatever happens, that you find your happiness.
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Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 171
You aren't being controlling. You are reaffirming the boundaries that you set, since his rehab stint will be over soon.
I can't speak for everyone's intentions, but I question his intentions telling your brother that he's going to start drinking again once he gets out of rehab. The admission itself is a red flag, but telling someone that he pretty much knows will tell you? It feels almost like he's being proactive in setting up a fight and reason to relapse.
Either way, sticking to your own boundaries is not controlling him; it is simply controlling your own environment which you are entitled to.
I can't speak for everyone's intentions, but I question his intentions telling your brother that he's going to start drinking again once he gets out of rehab. The admission itself is a red flag, but telling someone that he pretty much knows will tell you? It feels almost like he's being proactive in setting up a fight and reason to relapse.
Either way, sticking to your own boundaries is not controlling him; it is simply controlling your own environment which you are entitled to.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 157
I think what you stated is a clear boundary. One thing to remember, however, is that for boundaries to really work, you have to enforce them. Unfortunately, it sounds like he is still in denial since he says he plans to drink again. Also, his response saying that you are trying to control him is very common. My STBXAH said that same thing...in fact told me that if I had not tried to control him in the beginning, his drinking probably wouldn't even be as bad now. Um, ok.
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
I think it was a very healthy boundary. It seems like the minimum requirement is at least one year of sobriety (the one year AA chip for instance) in order to *start* trusting them and even then there is no guarantee.
You handled it very well! Congratulations for placing your inner peace first and foremost and giving it the importance that it has.
In your place I would make plans for myself, to live by myself or with roomies, family, (healthy non-addicted people). I shared a place with someone similar years ago and all that happened was that I kept enabling his drinking, as long as there was "someone with him" (even if I chose to drank a soda) in his twisted mind "things were not as bad".
How convenient to be paranoid about "being controlled"! that is a way to discount your very valid concerns. It's the alcoholism speaking.
Even if it breaks your heart to enforce boundaries, at least it would be one time, and then you would recover... if you continue with this guy I can bet your heart will be broken over and over again. It doesn't look like he is ready to recover yet, and it's not your fault, you don't have any obligation to be there and see if he actually recovers or not someday at the expense of your sanity, mental, physical and emotional well-being.
It is OK if we want to love a person but sometimes that love has to be from a distance, for our own sake.
Just my two cents.
You handled it very well! Congratulations for placing your inner peace first and foremost and giving it the importance that it has.
In your place I would make plans for myself, to live by myself or with roomies, family, (healthy non-addicted people). I shared a place with someone similar years ago and all that happened was that I kept enabling his drinking, as long as there was "someone with him" (even if I chose to drank a soda) in his twisted mind "things were not as bad".
How convenient to be paranoid about "being controlled"! that is a way to discount your very valid concerns. It's the alcoholism speaking.
Even if it breaks your heart to enforce boundaries, at least it would be one time, and then you would recover... if you continue with this guy I can bet your heart will be broken over and over again. It doesn't look like he is ready to recover yet, and it's not your fault, you don't have any obligation to be there and see if he actually recovers or not someday at the expense of your sanity, mental, physical and emotional well-being.
It is OK if we want to love a person but sometimes that love has to be from a distance, for our own sake.
Just my two cents.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
So, let's say he changes his tune and now swears up and down that he won't drink once he's out. Does that mean you take him into your home (what with your boundary and all)?
Seems to me it's pretty clear where his head is at. In my experience, as long as someone holds (secretly, in their minds) even the slightest reservation about their ability to drink now and then, they will. Only a matter of time.
If I were you, I'd hold off on any plans to move in together unless/until he is solidly sober for at LEAST a year. (A year out of rehab, that is.) You've got your family there--do you have a job or other means of self-support? I certainly wouldn't want to rely on him. I think it's pretty much a guarantee that he will say what you want to hear, but from where I sit, he's a poor bet for staying sober for long.
Seems to me it's pretty clear where his head is at. In my experience, as long as someone holds (secretly, in their minds) even the slightest reservation about their ability to drink now and then, they will. Only a matter of time.
If I were you, I'd hold off on any plans to move in together unless/until he is solidly sober for at LEAST a year. (A year out of rehab, that is.) You've got your family there--do you have a job or other means of self-support? I certainly wouldn't want to rely on him. I think it's pretty much a guarantee that he will say what you want to hear, but from where I sit, he's a poor bet for staying sober for long.
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 27
When I planned the move, I did it relying solely on my income and didn't take his into consideration since it was basically a variable. I wanted to make sure I would never be stuck by relying on him financially, it's actually part of why I'm moving, it's more affordable.
He responded saying that he was trying to fix his life and move forward and that it wouldn't be spending his life being told what he can or can't do. I told him that we had already discussed that him being sober was a requirrment for a relationship with me and that he clearly still wants the option to drink beer. Said I was not okay with that and that I couldn't be with him. I guess we broke up. He says we're breaking up because he can't be with someone so controlling, I reinforced that I do not and have not said a word about any other decisions in his life but sobriety is my limit. I don't think it's really hitting me yet, but I know that I had to do this. I have never loved anyone so much and never wanted this, but I guess I had to break my own heart now to save it in the future. Now, I'm just waiting for it to hit me and planning how to get through.
He responded saying that he was trying to fix his life and move forward and that it wouldn't be spending his life being told what he can or can't do. I told him that we had already discussed that him being sober was a requirrment for a relationship with me and that he clearly still wants the option to drink beer. Said I was not okay with that and that I couldn't be with him. I guess we broke up. He says we're breaking up because he can't be with someone so controlling, I reinforced that I do not and have not said a word about any other decisions in his life but sobriety is my limit. I don't think it's really hitting me yet, but I know that I had to do this. I have never loved anyone so much and never wanted this, but I guess I had to break my own heart now to save it in the future. Now, I'm just waiting for it to hit me and planning how to get through.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
It doesn't matter what spin he puts on it. He can call it controlling, you can call it what you are/are not willing to live with. Look at this as a win-win. He gets to have his "occasional" beer, you get to have your freedom to build a great new life for yourself.
One suggestion--as you've no doubt gathered, from reading the threads here, continued contact between the two of you will make it much more difficult and painful for you. I'd let your dad know that you've broken up. You can't tell your dad not to employ him (that's his business), but you can tell your dad and your brother you'd rather not hear any further "news" or reports of conversations they've had with him. Trust me, you're better off not hearing about it.
One suggestion--as you've no doubt gathered, from reading the threads here, continued contact between the two of you will make it much more difficult and painful for you. I'd let your dad know that you've broken up. You can't tell your dad not to employ him (that's his business), but you can tell your dad and your brother you'd rather not hear any further "news" or reports of conversations they've had with him. Trust me, you're better off not hearing about it.
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Join Date: Mar 2015
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Thanks Lexi. I still have most of his things at my house in Nj and he's coming next weekend to visit his son, so I guess he will pick stuff up then. Who knows if he'll stay with my father for work by his choice, but I won't ask for his employment to change. I am going to tell my family the situation today and guess go from there.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Just a tip, I'd have a Plan B in mind as far as his picking up his stuff. Ask how many folks here have wound up providing long-term storage for an ex's belongings.
Give him a heads-up now that you expect him to take his stuff when you go back, and if he claims he can't get it, ask what he'd like you to do with it, making it clear you are NOT going to move his stuff. Some people suggest renting a storage locker and giving him the key, which isn't a great idea because the storage place will still expect you to pay them (they would have no contract with him), and it might damage your credit if you don't keep paying.
If he's got a friend who can hold his stuff, great. The point is to get it completely OFF your hands. Maybe his friend can rent a storage locker for him.
Give him a heads-up now that you expect him to take his stuff when you go back, and if he claims he can't get it, ask what he'd like you to do with it, making it clear you are NOT going to move his stuff. Some people suggest renting a storage locker and giving him the key, which isn't a great idea because the storage place will still expect you to pay them (they would have no contract with him), and it might damage your credit if you don't keep paying.
If he's got a friend who can hold his stuff, great. The point is to get it completely OFF your hands. Maybe his friend can rent a storage locker for him.
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
If he still thinks he can drink then unfortunately he did not embrace recovery. Step 1 is the admission of powerlessness over alcohol which includes BEER, even if that beer has the lowest alcohol content on the planet.
This is typical active alcoholic thinking. Change the drink and change the result. If one can stay sober completely for a period of time then one can control and moderate themselves. NOT.
I would not move in with him, no how, no way. One year sober is a good point to consider resuming a relationship. Maybe you should tell him that. Controlling? Yes, controlling YOUR own life and desire to not live with an active alcoholic. He can do what he wants.
This is typical active alcoholic thinking. Change the drink and change the result. If one can stay sober completely for a period of time then one can control and moderate themselves. NOT.
I would not move in with him, no how, no way. One year sober is a good point to consider resuming a relationship. Maybe you should tell him that. Controlling? Yes, controlling YOUR own life and desire to not live with an active alcoholic. He can do what he wants.
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: The Beach
Posts: 1,106
I am sorry you are going through this.
I know how much t hurts when an alcoholic partner does not respect your boundaries...when they wont even acknowledge it as a boundary and insist you are trying to control them. As with all non-recovered alcoholics, EVERYTHING is about THEM in their twisted up heads. When something we say or do stands between them and alcohol they see us as the enemy. It sucks.
I didn't just break his heart when I enforced my boundaries regarding alcoholic behaviour in my presence, I broke my heart too...and my children's hearts and my parent's hearts and other people's hearts that loved us as a family unit as well. It was so messy and so painful for so many people. I had to endure quite a bit of anger and disappointment from those around me that did not understand what hell I had been living in.
Regarding my own broken heart; yes it was my decisions that led to my XAH and I breaking up. It hurt and still does. But when I was still with him and he was lying and breaking promises and manipulating me I was much more broken. Yes my heart still aches for the loss of my marriage... but I am NOT broken anymore. With him my heart was being broken on a pretty consistant basis..not only my heart but my mind, my emotions, my dreams, my trust , my soul... and though he never physically harmed me with his body... the physical symptoms I suffered from the anxiety I was experiencing were terrifying. I left and I am no longer broken, I am whole again. That isn't to say I'm not a bit banged up, I have a few cracks still.. but I'm on a steady road to recovery and feeling strong. Getting happier and healthier every day.
I know you are still in shock right now and that you have a big old rollercoaster ride ahead of you in the next few days. But you sound like you have a strong resolve. You set boundaries for your self and are sticking to them. I admire your for having the strength to do that. We are here for you. Come back often and post as much as you need to.
*hugs*
I know how much t hurts when an alcoholic partner does not respect your boundaries...when they wont even acknowledge it as a boundary and insist you are trying to control them. As with all non-recovered alcoholics, EVERYTHING is about THEM in their twisted up heads. When something we say or do stands between them and alcohol they see us as the enemy. It sucks.
I didn't just break his heart when I enforced my boundaries regarding alcoholic behaviour in my presence, I broke my heart too...and my children's hearts and my parent's hearts and other people's hearts that loved us as a family unit as well. It was so messy and so painful for so many people. I had to endure quite a bit of anger and disappointment from those around me that did not understand what hell I had been living in.
Regarding my own broken heart; yes it was my decisions that led to my XAH and I breaking up. It hurt and still does. But when I was still with him and he was lying and breaking promises and manipulating me I was much more broken. Yes my heart still aches for the loss of my marriage... but I am NOT broken anymore. With him my heart was being broken on a pretty consistant basis..not only my heart but my mind, my emotions, my dreams, my trust , my soul... and though he never physically harmed me with his body... the physical symptoms I suffered from the anxiety I was experiencing were terrifying. I left and I am no longer broken, I am whole again. That isn't to say I'm not a bit banged up, I have a few cracks still.. but I'm on a steady road to recovery and feeling strong. Getting happier and healthier every day.
I know you are still in shock right now and that you have a big old rollercoaster ride ahead of you in the next few days. But you sound like you have a strong resolve. You set boundaries for your self and are sticking to them. I admire your for having the strength to do that. We are here for you. Come back often and post as much as you need to.
*hugs*
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 216
It seems to me that he still needs a lot of work and still in the denial phase and not accepting that he is in fact a true alcoholic. As for boundaries, I think your approach was good and stated boundaries. The thing with alcoholism is that they don't want to listen to these boundaries. Alcoholism will try to do its best to fight off hearing firm and clear boundaries that target them at their addiction and so what your Abf is doing is very typical of lots of addicts. To blame, Call you "controlling" in attempt to not hear your boundaries. My AH does the same. Whenever I tell him clear boundaries, he tries to tune out anyway he can by not listening: walking away, saying I'm being mean or hurtful to his feelings (when I'm just simply setting boundaries in a healthy way), anything that will deflect from listening, that way it protects his addiction. The more protection an addiction has, the more Powerful it can become. It's a huge fight to try to win.
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 158
Donīt get sucked into the A manipulation. They will always try to confuse you and make it seem like youīre the one with a problem, it almost seems evil (I was often reminded of the film the Exorcist in my dealings with XAbf, he was so manipulative and lying and just plain mean).
The situation is simple:
You canīt force him to stop drinking
but
He canīt force you to be with an alcoholic
Once youīve internalized this it will be easy to stand up for yourself and not to feel guilty about it.
Stay strong!
The situation is simple:
You canīt force him to stop drinking
but
He canīt force you to be with an alcoholic
Once youīve internalized this it will be easy to stand up for yourself and not to feel guilty about it.
Stay strong!
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I think the best thing one can do is live separately from an addict once they are out of rehab. They need to work on themselves, for themselves. Their actions will show pretty quickly how much they embraced their own recovery.
Just my .02
Just my .02
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,792
I had my last drink in late February 2014. I can take Nyquil for a cold, and take the chalice at Mass, however.
I don't really think that I could be classified as an alcoholic, because I have never had the desire to drink again since I quit. In spite of this, I wouldn't DREAM of ever picking up again. This is a boundary I have set for myself, and I live by it.
It seems to me that a recovering alcoholic would have that same boundary for themselves as a bare minimum, to be truly "recovering."
I don't really think that I could be classified as an alcoholic, because I have never had the desire to drink again since I quit. In spite of this, I wouldn't DREAM of ever picking up again. This is a boundary I have set for myself, and I live by it.
It seems to me that a recovering alcoholic would have that same boundary for themselves as a bare minimum, to be truly "recovering."
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
I just had a gut feeling that he wasn't entirely embracing his recovery
but I just have this nagging gut feeling that him being away from his son in nj and not being in a program (I don't care what one as long as he is comfortable with it) makes him a huge relapse and flight risk. It scares me and he knows that.
He is telling you the truth LISTEN to him and believe him – he wants to drink again, he’s not ready to give that up and maybe he never will be.
This relationship ending may be a blessing and I think once the tears stop and the emotional roller coaster of grief calms you will understand the blessing and be grateful for it.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
while not the "outcome" you may have been hoping for, AT LEAST he was straight up about his plans to drink again, instead of trying to con you. be grateful for that! not sure why he went IN to rehab if he is already planning his first of many drinks the minute he gets out.
i'm sorry for this, but your spidey senses were right on and you paid attention!!!!
i'm sorry for this, but your spidey senses were right on and you paid attention!!!!
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,407
When someone shows you who they are......believe them. He is clearly showing you that he is not done with drinking. And his drinking clearly doesn't work for you. Both are fine. He is an adult and can choose to have a beer even if it is killing him. You are an adult and can choose to have a life free of alcoholic drama. Keep your boundaries, they are sane. He will do his best to make you think otherwise.
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