What do you think?
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What do you think?
I know I've been posting a ton and I'm super annoyed by it. I'm tired of hearing myself talk about my RAH and my marriage. I'm tired of trying to figure it out and I wish I could find my way out of my fog. With that being said...I'd like some feed back please.
For those who may not know, I lost my baby girl in our second trimester last March. One week after she passed I found out my husband after 19 years had relapsed on heroin. Exactly one week later my husband lost his job. Was clean for 8 weeks then relapsed again which i found out in July. The passing of my baby was one of the most difficult things I'd been through in 43 years. I knew this baby would be the last I'd carry given my age and my husband's addiction. My husband and I have no relationship. We barely speak, we don't sleep together and haven't been intimate in over a year. I have no desire to be intimate with him. I'm still processing the pain from loosing my baby and my husband's addiction. He has been giving me the cold shoulder since Thursday. I went to dinner with a friend and when I got home he barely spoke to me. So finally after 2 days of the silent treatment he tells me he really misses me. He loves me and he wants to put an effort into our marriage. He's been sober 6 months now. I don't trust him, I'm still hurt and I don't know if I can get over what happened. I told him how hurt I was, I told him I am working on my recovery and I'm doing the best I can. He wants to start holding hands, be intimate, cuddle etc...I told him I appreciated him talking to me about it. He said he's been giving me the cold shoulder because he is so upset and just wants his wife back. During our conversation he said he has been around coworkers who just had babies and it made him think of us getting pregnant again. This made me so upset. He said he has goals, he's networking, wants to move, have his own business in 5 years etc...then he says he pictures me being pregnant again. It made me so mad, I felt as though he was using it against me. Maybe I'm just being paranoid but it didn't feel genuine and I felt he was using my pain and vulnerability to manipulate me. I still don't know what to think. This was yesterday morning. He was really moody since then, short with the kids, cold shoulder again and blames it on me. He says I still haven't put an effort in to show I love him. I told him I'm sorry I'm not giving him what he wants but I'm doing the best I can. His attitude is awful, he is accusatory and even complained because he had a migraine and wanted me to give him a massage which I didn't. He didn't ask, it was a passive aggressive thing..."i won't be able to get some sleep because i need a massage". I told him I will not do anything nice like that because of the way he is acting towards me. Is this normal behavior? I know he is frustrated about our marriage and maybe he has a right to be upset. But what is my part in this? What are your thoughts?
For those who may not know, I lost my baby girl in our second trimester last March. One week after she passed I found out my husband after 19 years had relapsed on heroin. Exactly one week later my husband lost his job. Was clean for 8 weeks then relapsed again which i found out in July. The passing of my baby was one of the most difficult things I'd been through in 43 years. I knew this baby would be the last I'd carry given my age and my husband's addiction. My husband and I have no relationship. We barely speak, we don't sleep together and haven't been intimate in over a year. I have no desire to be intimate with him. I'm still processing the pain from loosing my baby and my husband's addiction. He has been giving me the cold shoulder since Thursday. I went to dinner with a friend and when I got home he barely spoke to me. So finally after 2 days of the silent treatment he tells me he really misses me. He loves me and he wants to put an effort into our marriage. He's been sober 6 months now. I don't trust him, I'm still hurt and I don't know if I can get over what happened. I told him how hurt I was, I told him I am working on my recovery and I'm doing the best I can. He wants to start holding hands, be intimate, cuddle etc...I told him I appreciated him talking to me about it. He said he's been giving me the cold shoulder because he is so upset and just wants his wife back. During our conversation he said he has been around coworkers who just had babies and it made him think of us getting pregnant again. This made me so upset. He said he has goals, he's networking, wants to move, have his own business in 5 years etc...then he says he pictures me being pregnant again. It made me so mad, I felt as though he was using it against me. Maybe I'm just being paranoid but it didn't feel genuine and I felt he was using my pain and vulnerability to manipulate me. I still don't know what to think. This was yesterday morning. He was really moody since then, short with the kids, cold shoulder again and blames it on me. He says I still haven't put an effort in to show I love him. I told him I'm sorry I'm not giving him what he wants but I'm doing the best I can. His attitude is awful, he is accusatory and even complained because he had a migraine and wanted me to give him a massage which I didn't. He didn't ask, it was a passive aggressive thing..."i won't be able to get some sleep because i need a massage". I told him I will not do anything nice like that because of the way he is acting towards me. Is this normal behavior? I know he is frustrated about our marriage and maybe he has a right to be upset. But what is my part in this? What are your thoughts?
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Originally Posted by cynical one 
I'm so sorry for the loss of your baby. Have you had any grief counseling either individually or as a couple?
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Thx for all you've shared. Going on what you've shared there are obvious problems which may or may not be linked to other problems below the surface which are not so obvious.
*Losing the baby*
How does a parent heal from the kind of loss when; "Hello" means "Good-bye"? It's brutal. It's not as easy to grieve the loss of a pregnancy as people think it is. It's one of the hardest things to grieve. And, it can put a pretty big strain on a marriage. Many marriages just don't recover from that kind of blow. Death of someone close can lead to relapse. I'm not saying that to "excuse" him, but it happens all to often that people turn (again) to old coping skills when faced with emotional pain.
*You don't want to be intimate with him*
It's possible you could be having anhedonia due to depression and depression due to losing a baby and coping with an addict. Things that would under "normal" circumstances bring you pleasure just for whatever reason aren't doing it for you. Some of that is just pure burn-out. Some of it is likely grief. Some of it coping with his addiction and all the worries that brings to you. And then of course coping with the rest of life ALL AT THE SAME TIME. It sounds like he is practically begging you to give him some love and affection. In your honesty you are indicating you really don't wish to touch him or be touched by him. It's sad whenever a marriage comes to that, but maybe the wounds can be healed somehow.
You've been married a long time. Even in the best of circumstances and no undo strain you can lose the spark. I don't' know that I have the answer for THAT per se because it sounds like you are not even attracted to him and his relapse is disgusting to you. Hard to be loving, affectionate when you are disgusted. Cold shoulder:-some people do that when they are actually hurting inside...
If he were to stay clean, would you forgive him for relapsing?
*Losing the baby*
How does a parent heal from the kind of loss when; "Hello" means "Good-bye"? It's brutal. It's not as easy to grieve the loss of a pregnancy as people think it is. It's one of the hardest things to grieve. And, it can put a pretty big strain on a marriage. Many marriages just don't recover from that kind of blow. Death of someone close can lead to relapse. I'm not saying that to "excuse" him, but it happens all to often that people turn (again) to old coping skills when faced with emotional pain.
*You don't want to be intimate with him*
It's possible you could be having anhedonia due to depression and depression due to losing a baby and coping with an addict. Things that would under "normal" circumstances bring you pleasure just for whatever reason aren't doing it for you. Some of that is just pure burn-out. Some of it is likely grief. Some of it coping with his addiction and all the worries that brings to you. And then of course coping with the rest of life ALL AT THE SAME TIME. It sounds like he is practically begging you to give him some love and affection. In your honesty you are indicating you really don't wish to touch him or be touched by him. It's sad whenever a marriage comes to that, but maybe the wounds can be healed somehow.
You've been married a long time. Even in the best of circumstances and no undo strain you can lose the spark. I don't' know that I have the answer for THAT per se because it sounds like you are not even attracted to him and his relapse is disgusting to you. Hard to be loving, affectionate when you are disgusted. Cold shoulder:-some people do that when they are actually hurting inside...
If he were to stay clean, would you forgive him for relapsing?
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Do you think that maybe you're ready to talk about with someone? As a way to deal with the loss and perhaps put some of the anger to rest. I understand the anger, I get it, I really do... but I also know that it's like a poison when we carry it around with us- and once we start to release it, it's like a boulder being slowly lifted off of our souls.
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Join Date: Jan 2016
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First off I'm sorry for your loss.
Secondly I agree with cynical one.
Thirdly If you can't move forward with your spouse, and build a healthy relationship again then I'm afraid the resentment will be further damaging to both of your recoveries.
Secondly I agree with cynical one.
Thirdly If you can't move forward with your spouse, and build a healthy relationship again then I'm afraid the resentment will be further damaging to both of your recoveries.
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Husband had already started using well before I lost the baby. I'm angry because of the $25,000 that disappeared over time. Our retirement money. I'm angry that he hasn't had a steady job in 10 years. I'm angry that we haven't had a family vacation because he never accrues vacation time because he jumps from job to job. I'm angry because my partner in life isn't someone I can lean on. I'm angry because the life I imagined is not what we have. I thank God every day our boys are healthy. I thank God for my career because without it we couldn't pay the bills. It's a huge strain to be the only financial stability.
I'm resentful, disgusted and angry. I want an equal partner. Partner being the most important.
I'm resentful, disgusted and angry. I want an equal partner. Partner being the most important.
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"If he were to stay clean, would you forgive him for relapsing?"
I'm sure I would eventually. But then there is the worry of it happening in the future. If I let my guard down I'm so afraid of it happening again but I know I have no control.
I'm sure I would eventually. But then there is the worry of it happening in the future. If I let my guard down I'm so afraid of it happening again but I know I have no control.
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Ok you're really angry with him (I would be as well), and you're still grieving about the baby, you have no physical attraction, and are generally fed up.
He's struggling, wanting affection, wanting sex or even cuddles (fair enough from his POV, men equate that with love), relapsing, generally stuffing up his life. He can't handle the fact that you're withdrawing from him and only copes with it by being PA.
Your marriage is in a lot of trouble, and probably the only way to save it is to do as much marriage counselling as you can afford. Maybe you need to think about whether you want to stay with him, but if you do, make a commitment to work for it rather than drift unhappily along. He may be behaving like an AH, but at least he came out openly and told you what was bothering him, and that's hard for a many men.
Excuse me if I sound brutal, but you need to take over the finances. How did he manage to fritter away $25,000 before you realised? That's your money too, and supposed to be for your boys, and if your AH can't handle it, make sure it goes where he can't access it. Even if you've left it to him in the past, now is the time to act.
PS when you've saved a little, you and boys go have a holiday, even in a tent.
He's struggling, wanting affection, wanting sex or even cuddles (fair enough from his POV, men equate that with love), relapsing, generally stuffing up his life. He can't handle the fact that you're withdrawing from him and only copes with it by being PA.
Your marriage is in a lot of trouble, and probably the only way to save it is to do as much marriage counselling as you can afford. Maybe you need to think about whether you want to stay with him, but if you do, make a commitment to work for it rather than drift unhappily along. He may be behaving like an AH, but at least he came out openly and told you what was bothering him, and that's hard for a many men.
Excuse me if I sound brutal, but you need to take over the finances. How did he manage to fritter away $25,000 before you realised? That's your money too, and supposed to be for your boys, and if your AH can't handle it, make sure it goes where he can't access it. Even if you've left it to him in the past, now is the time to act.
PS when you've saved a little, you and boys go have a holiday, even in a tent.
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"Excuse me if I sound brutal, but you need to take over the finances. How did he manage to fritter away $25,000 before you realised? That's your money too, and supposed to be for your boys, and if your AH can't handle it, make sure it goes where he can't access it. Even if you've left it to him in the past, now is the time to act.*"
No worries you're not brutal. Fortunately the money was part of his 401k which rolled over to an IRA in his name only. I never had access to it. Since we were married he has never wanted to pool money, have a bank account together etc...we had a money market account together but it was depleted because we had to pay bills with it while he was out of work. He never wanted a joint checking because he said he didn't like the way I balanced my check book. It would be too hard for him to manage.
No worries you're not brutal. Fortunately the money was part of his 401k which rolled over to an IRA in his name only. I never had access to it. Since we were married he has never wanted to pool money, have a bank account together etc...we had a money market account together but it was depleted because we had to pay bills with it while he was out of work. He never wanted a joint checking because he said he didn't like the way I balanced my check book. It would be too hard for him to manage.
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mama...
I wasn't aware that you had lost a baby. I am so, so sorry.
Regarding your AH:
I read and reread this a few times, and each time I reread it, I got more angry. We read a lot about poor behavior here, but seldom does reading about it make me angry. This, however, does, and that's because it's a brazen attempt at emotional manipulation while you're grieving the loss of your baby. Brazen, and frankly despicable. That's what I think about it.
As for what to do...
You have a lot of soul searching to do, mama, and that's complicated by the fact that you're still grieving. So instead of offering advice, I'm going to ask you one simple question: what is best for you?
And what is best for you is not necessarily what you want. It seldom is. What is best for you is mostly determined by being honest with yourself about what's important to you, what you need, and what you're able to give. So it's a simple question, but it's also a hard question to answer.
We can help you sort that out, but the heavy lifting is up to you.
Please keep us posted.
I wasn't aware that you had lost a baby. I am so, so sorry.
Regarding your AH:
So finally after 2 days of the silent treatment he tells me he really misses me. He loves me and he wants to put an effort into our marriage...He wants to start holding hands, be intimate, cuddle etc...I told him I appreciated him talking to me about it. He said he's been giving me the cold shoulder because he is so upset and just wants his wife back. During our conversation he said he has been around coworkers who just had babies and it made him think of us getting pregnant again. This made me so upset. He said he has goals, he's networking, wants to move, have his own business in 5 years etc...then he says he pictures me being pregnant again. It made me so mad, I felt as though he was using it against me. Maybe I'm just being paranoid but it didn't feel genuine and I felt he was using my pain and vulnerability to manipulate me. I still don't know what to think.
As for what to do...
You have a lot of soul searching to do, mama, and that's complicated by the fact that you're still grieving. So instead of offering advice, I'm going to ask you one simple question: what is best for you?
And what is best for you is not necessarily what you want. It seldom is. What is best for you is mostly determined by being honest with yourself about what's important to you, what you need, and what you're able to give. So it's a simple question, but it's also a hard question to answer.
We can help you sort that out, but the heavy lifting is up to you.
Please keep us posted.
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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I'm so sorry for your loss mamaof3boyz.
On reading your post, I noticed an acute number of "I" statements coming from your AH, He has goals, wants a business, etc. But what do you want? Is he interested in that, in you? You did say that you want a partner. I dunno, from what you wrote, all the focus on himself and not you, kinda makes me nervous, doubtful.
On reading your post, I noticed an acute number of "I" statements coming from your AH, He has goals, wants a business, etc. But what do you want? Is he interested in that, in you? You did say that you want a partner. I dunno, from what you wrote, all the focus on himself and not you, kinda makes me nervous, doubtful.
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I'm so sorry for your loss mama. That's heartbreaking to read.
As for your husband, I have to say that I always wanted to attribute ALL of my ex's bad behavior to his drinking. I had it in my head that if he got sober, all the other abusive, bad and otherwise unacceptable behavior would end. So my mission in life was to get him sober. At the time, not knowing any better, that seemed like a "manageable" task to me.
He never did quit, so I don't know how that would have worked out, but it seems like a lot of people (here and in my Alanon groups) have a loved one get sober and then discover that it wasn't drugs or alcohol causing the cruel, manipulative behavior, and that there never was a great guy or wonderful woman in there somewhere. It was the same person all along.
I had a talk with my therapist awhile back, and she asked me if I'd ever get back together with my ex. I said, well, maybe if he completely changed into a completely different person. Then I laughed and said, instead of waiting around for that to happen, it would probably be easier to find a completely different person if I was interested in another relationship.
As for your husband, I have to say that I always wanted to attribute ALL of my ex's bad behavior to his drinking. I had it in my head that if he got sober, all the other abusive, bad and otherwise unacceptable behavior would end. So my mission in life was to get him sober. At the time, not knowing any better, that seemed like a "manageable" task to me.
He never did quit, so I don't know how that would have worked out, but it seems like a lot of people (here and in my Alanon groups) have a loved one get sober and then discover that it wasn't drugs or alcohol causing the cruel, manipulative behavior, and that there never was a great guy or wonderful woman in there somewhere. It was the same person all along.
I had a talk with my therapist awhile back, and she asked me if I'd ever get back together with my ex. I said, well, maybe if he completely changed into a completely different person. Then I laughed and said, instead of waiting around for that to happen, it would probably be easier to find a completely different person if I was interested in another relationship.
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My thoughts: that is is a manipulative a$$hole. As soon as it did not go the way he wanted it to, he started being a jerk to you.
I am so sorry for the loss of your baby. I think it's tragic that he bring up a baby at a time like this.
Many, many hugs to you.
I am so sorry for the loss of your baby. I think it's tragic that he bring up a baby at a time like this.
Many, many hugs to you.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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doesn't sound like he's been holding up his end of the relationship for a long time
that would make me angry too
who wants to be intimate with someone who their angry with,
and who uses manipulation tactics to get what they want?
it's maybe time to really think about what you want from life
and what steps you need to take to get it
that would make me angry too
who wants to be intimate with someone who their angry with,
and who uses manipulation tactics to get what they want?
it's maybe time to really think about what you want from life
and what steps you need to take to get it
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Originally Posted by mamaof3boyz
I'm angry because of the $25,000 that disappeared over time. Our retirement money. I'm angry that he hasn't had a steady job in 10 years. I'm angry that we haven't had a family vacation because he never accrues vacation time because he jumps from job to job. I'm angry because my partner in life isn't someone I can lean on. I'm angry because the life I imagined is not what we have.I'm resentful, disgusted and angry. I want an equal partner.
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mama, I'm so sorry .
I lost my baby 10 weeks out, and I can honestly say that that period was one of the toughest times we had in our marriage. My husband, as good-hearted as he is, never wanted to talk about it, whereas all I wanted to do was talk about it. There were periods of utter loneliness and anger. You've already endured so much. I don't even know you but I wish I could take all that pain away.
But this story isn't about me - it's about my mom. She lost her son in the second trimester. My dad was a heavy smoker back then, and so when she got pregnant with me soon afterwards, she told my dad in no uncertain times that there was NO WAY that she was stay with him if he kept smoking. And my dad promptly did - because he would have done anything and everything to make sure that she felt safe. And today I see my husband do the same thing day in and day out.
I don't see your husband doing that. What is he doing to prove to you that he would do anything and everything to keep his family safe?
And I couldn't help but think, "He developed a heroin habit and he's pissed off at you for not giving him a massage?" I mean, seriously, WTF?
Actions, not words, will show his true heart.
I lost my baby 10 weeks out, and I can honestly say that that period was one of the toughest times we had in our marriage. My husband, as good-hearted as he is, never wanted to talk about it, whereas all I wanted to do was talk about it. There were periods of utter loneliness and anger. You've already endured so much. I don't even know you but I wish I could take all that pain away.
But this story isn't about me - it's about my mom. She lost her son in the second trimester. My dad was a heavy smoker back then, and so when she got pregnant with me soon afterwards, she told my dad in no uncertain times that there was NO WAY that she was stay with him if he kept smoking. And my dad promptly did - because he would have done anything and everything to make sure that she felt safe. And today I see my husband do the same thing day in and day out.
I don't see your husband doing that. What is he doing to prove to you that he would do anything and everything to keep his family safe?
And I couldn't help but think, "He developed a heroin habit and he's pissed off at you for not giving him a massage?" I mean, seriously, WTF?
Actions, not words, will show his true heart.
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Join Date: Dec 2015
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Your post is hard to read. Years ago I had two miscarriages in a short period of time. The pain of it all was numbing, and I didnt process my emotions in a healthy way. I would suggest working on some of your feelings which MAY be buried behind anger at him.
He doesnt appear manipulative to me, looks to be more fruatration, lonliness and not knowing what to do in order to reach you, and rebuild. Asking to hold your hand, the slightest touch.
I think you need to keep up with the therapy and work on either getting to a place of forgiveness for what his addiction has cost you in borh assets and emotional things.
But realize its cost him too. He must surely feel loss, but can only do what he can to rebuild.
This is where I think you need marriage counseling. But you also have to have the desire to work on the marriage. Do you think you have it?
He doesnt appear manipulative to me, looks to be more fruatration, lonliness and not knowing what to do in order to reach you, and rebuild. Asking to hold your hand, the slightest touch.
I think you need to keep up with the therapy and work on either getting to a place of forgiveness for what his addiction has cost you in borh assets and emotional things.
But realize its cost him too. He must surely feel loss, but can only do what he can to rebuild.
This is where I think you need marriage counseling. But you also have to have the desire to work on the marriage. Do you think you have it?
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
First off, I am so very sorry for the loss of your baby. I think grief counseling separate from marriage counseling might be a benefit to you.
Second, to answer your question…..what do you think………….
I think you need to listen and trust your gut instinct. If you don’t trust him, then don’t trust him. If you feel he’s manipulating you, then he’s probably manipulating you.
His remarks to you sound so very selfish and so very much like an active addict. He’s blaming and accusing and that is not how someone dedicated to drug recovery acts. Counseling or not from what you shared he doesn’t not sound like someone in real recovery.
Your fear of him using again is very real and based on his past history it’s a pretty good indicator for his future history.
Sometimes our anger is inward because we know what we need to do but that FOG keeps us hooked.
F – fear
O – obligation
G- guilt
I think counseling for just yourself is the best gift you can give yourself right now.
Second, to answer your question…..what do you think………….
I think you need to listen and trust your gut instinct. If you don’t trust him, then don’t trust him. If you feel he’s manipulating you, then he’s probably manipulating you.
His remarks to you sound so very selfish and so very much like an active addict. He’s blaming and accusing and that is not how someone dedicated to drug recovery acts. Counseling or not from what you shared he doesn’t not sound like someone in real recovery.
Your fear of him using again is very real and based on his past history it’s a pretty good indicator for his future history.
Sometimes our anger is inward because we know what we need to do but that FOG keeps us hooked.
F – fear
O – obligation
G- guilt
I think counseling for just yourself is the best gift you can give yourself right now.
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