Why are they always so perfect?
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Why are they always so perfect?
I am now 3 weeks into my split from my XABF and have been reading so many past and present posts which have really helped me make sense of all of this.
So many of our stories have striking similarities in places. One thing I have picked up on in particular is the fact that in the beginning at least, many of us describe our relationships with As as perfect, being soul mates, so compatible, basically prince charmings.
This was certainly true of my relationship. However in many of the posts people seem to have become more aware of their As issues much quicker than me (around 2 years and I took 5) and also seem to experience much more negative and abusive from their As which even in the end I never did- ok I am not deluded, cheating is NOT ok but by this point he was so deep into the alcohol that I genuinely believe his brain did not process that this would affect me and it was all about trying to grasp at anything to make him feel happy, which of course it did not and sent him spiralling even more as he dealt with the guilt and shame. Looking back he certainly became more distant in the last year but even admitted to me that was due to all the secrecy and denial meaning he was gradually mentally isolating himself which made sense.
I know every case will be different but as I try to make sense of all of this I have concluded we were genuinely in love for a very long time but as the disease progressed and changed him and it became his sole preoccupation, this is when everything started to break down and end in a complete wreck.
I suppose my question is this- some of the posts I have read seem to support my reasoning in that alcoholics do love but they are compelled to chose their addiction over that love, this does not mean the love was never real but the addiction is too strong and they are not ready to fight it. But other posts seem to be saying that alcoholic types and those with personality disorders do not really know themselves and so project the personality they think you want- hence why they seem to be the perfect partner and sole mate we have always been looking for. These relationships seem to break down pretty quickly but we were pretty blissfully happy for most of our time together. I would interested to see what you guys think?
I know you can drive yourself crazy trying to understand the addicts brain but it is more about future relationships. In addition to the really valuable red flags I will take away with me going forward, am I now also supposed to be worried about someone who seems perfect for me and treats me well and is kind and considerate??
So many of our stories have striking similarities in places. One thing I have picked up on in particular is the fact that in the beginning at least, many of us describe our relationships with As as perfect, being soul mates, so compatible, basically prince charmings.
This was certainly true of my relationship. However in many of the posts people seem to have become more aware of their As issues much quicker than me (around 2 years and I took 5) and also seem to experience much more negative and abusive from their As which even in the end I never did- ok I am not deluded, cheating is NOT ok but by this point he was so deep into the alcohol that I genuinely believe his brain did not process that this would affect me and it was all about trying to grasp at anything to make him feel happy, which of course it did not and sent him spiralling even more as he dealt with the guilt and shame. Looking back he certainly became more distant in the last year but even admitted to me that was due to all the secrecy and denial meaning he was gradually mentally isolating himself which made sense.
I know every case will be different but as I try to make sense of all of this I have concluded we were genuinely in love for a very long time but as the disease progressed and changed him and it became his sole preoccupation, this is when everything started to break down and end in a complete wreck.
I suppose my question is this- some of the posts I have read seem to support my reasoning in that alcoholics do love but they are compelled to chose their addiction over that love, this does not mean the love was never real but the addiction is too strong and they are not ready to fight it. But other posts seem to be saying that alcoholic types and those with personality disorders do not really know themselves and so project the personality they think you want- hence why they seem to be the perfect partner and sole mate we have always been looking for. These relationships seem to break down pretty quickly but we were pretty blissfully happy for most of our time together. I would interested to see what you guys think?
I know you can drive yourself crazy trying to understand the addicts brain but it is more about future relationships. In addition to the really valuable red flags I will take away with me going forward, am I now also supposed to be worried about someone who seems perfect for me and treats me well and is kind and considerate??
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Ally......the dating period is to have an opportunity to get really...really....acquainted with another person. Everybody tends to put their best foot forward during the early period, I think.
But, they can't keep it up forever.
to me....I think the trick is to give it enough time.....and, to see the person in a variety of circumstances....when they are sick, when they are experiencing a difficult loss. Observing how they treat other people in their lives--their parents, children, co-workers, waiters in the restaurant. How close and loyal are they to their friends. How much do they drink. How do they treat you.....
Do you feel appreciated and respected (all of the time). Well.....you get the point.....
I think you have to have a good idea of what your own needs are and how you tend to function in relationships. do you have baggage from your past---your growing up years?
I think it is important to be willing to "throw the fish back" if it doesn't fit the requirements. If you can't walk away, if necessary.....you probably shouldn't be getting involved.
It takes about 2years for the attraction hormones to wear thin---and begin to see the person more realistically!
Just a few of my own thoughts on this subject......
dandylion
But, they can't keep it up forever.
to me....I think the trick is to give it enough time.....and, to see the person in a variety of circumstances....when they are sick, when they are experiencing a difficult loss. Observing how they treat other people in their lives--their parents, children, co-workers, waiters in the restaurant. How close and loyal are they to their friends. How much do they drink. How do they treat you.....
Do you feel appreciated and respected (all of the time). Well.....you get the point.....
I think you have to have a good idea of what your own needs are and how you tend to function in relationships. do you have baggage from your past---your growing up years?
I think it is important to be willing to "throw the fish back" if it doesn't fit the requirements. If you can't walk away, if necessary.....you probably shouldn't be getting involved.
It takes about 2years for the attraction hormones to wear thin---and begin to see the person more realistically!
Just a few of my own thoughts on this subject......
dandylion
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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alcoholics do love but they are compelled to chose their addiction over that love
Also, I think it's important to remember that men and women get rejected in all kinds of relationships, and it actually happens pretty frequently. Men and women leave their partners for a wide variety of reasons. I honestly don't think it's about whether the love was real or if it ever existed, I think what it really comes down to is what is easier to live without. For many addicts, they decide that they can live without certain relationships, jobs, etc. before they can live without their drug of choice.
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Originally Posted by dandylion 
It takes about 2years for the attraction hormones to wear thin---and begin to see the person more realistically!
And that was what I really thought. It was my shortcoming, my lack of love. I wasn't good enough, I wasn't trying hard enough.
And here I am on a fall evening, 20 years later, with Van Morrison on the stereo, dogs at my feet, a bobbin of yarn on the spinning wheel and tears in my eyes, about a man who I somehow remember as pretty much perfect for me, but who continues to slip away on a tide of alcohol and denial.
Ally, I have no answers for you. I can only applaud you for having the courage to ask the questions.
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Join Date: Jun 2015
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Hi Ally
Funny thing you bring up this question of love. I have been thinking about this for days now. Did he ever really love me? How could someone who claims to love me act like that? Was it all a facade? On and on.....
I have finally realized that the answer to the question is yes. He loved me. The only way he knew how to love. Unfortunately his definition of love and my definition of love are two different things. For myself I believe that when you love you don't lie, cover up, manipulate or disrespect, respect being a big thing in my world. I had never done any of the above in the 5 years we were together. It really doesn't matter to me if those things were done while he was intoxicated. It still happened and I am not and cannot excuse that behavior from someone who claims to love me. He always called me his best friend. Best friend??? That's a joke.
I'm sorry Al, I'm rambling, guess this is a sore subject for me.
Again, everybody has a different take on the word love. Did he love you like you needed? Expected? Is the love that he shows you enough? That's the question.
Ro
Funny thing you bring up this question of love. I have been thinking about this for days now. Did he ever really love me? How could someone who claims to love me act like that? Was it all a facade? On and on.....
I have finally realized that the answer to the question is yes. He loved me. The only way he knew how to love. Unfortunately his definition of love and my definition of love are two different things. For myself I believe that when you love you don't lie, cover up, manipulate or disrespect, respect being a big thing in my world. I had never done any of the above in the 5 years we were together. It really doesn't matter to me if those things were done while he was intoxicated. It still happened and I am not and cannot excuse that behavior from someone who claims to love me. He always called me his best friend. Best friend??? That's a joke.
I'm sorry Al, I'm rambling, guess this is a sore subject for me.
Again, everybody has a different take on the word love. Did he love you like you needed? Expected? Is the love that he shows you enough? That's the question.
Ro
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honeypig......how could you have known.....that Van Morrison is my favorite musical performer of all time! !
I suspect that we were both raised with fundamental beliefs that love can conquer anything.....that if our love was "pure" and unconditional, it could overcome all obstacles and that it.....in some kind of divine justice, it would all come back to us, in the same kind.
What we were not told....was, that those kinds of principles were applicable to regular relationships...where both people are relatively.....somewhat healthy.
With people who also shared that same value. We were also NOT told that addiction turns it all o n its head. That addiction can alter the brain of another person so that they, effectively, are not a real participant in the relationship in any kind of equal way......
Spinning wheel...really?.....seriously? do you really spin your own yarn!?.....
Iam so amazed (and warm in the heart). I spent my early years in the deep Applachain mountains....with n o running water or electricity....but, we DID have store-bought fabrics.....lol!
honey....you are still mourning (of course). I sure do understand....
Thanks for your post.....
dandylion
I suspect that we were both raised with fundamental beliefs that love can conquer anything.....that if our love was "pure" and unconditional, it could overcome all obstacles and that it.....in some kind of divine justice, it would all come back to us, in the same kind.
What we were not told....was, that those kinds of principles were applicable to regular relationships...where both people are relatively.....somewhat healthy.
With people who also shared that same value. We were also NOT told that addiction turns it all o n its head. That addiction can alter the brain of another person so that they, effectively, are not a real participant in the relationship in any kind of equal way......
Spinning wheel...really?.....seriously? do you really spin your own yarn!?.....
Iam so amazed (and warm in the heart). I spent my early years in the deep Applachain mountains....with n o running water or electricity....but, we DID have store-bought fabrics.....lol!
honey....you are still mourning (of course). I sure do understand....
Thanks for your post.....
dandylion
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Join Date: Aug 2014
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Ally, I reached out to the A's forum about 6 months ago with the same questions. This is what they said ......
Life was all about facilitating drinking. My partner was a 'bit player' to support/enable me. My behavior is completely unacceptable and it is 100% typical of an alcoholic. We make terrible partners because - and this will be hard for you to hear - we love alcohol far more than we love our own partners. We will sacrifice anything, relationships with family, our business, our self respect, anything, to feed our addiction. We can't help it, alcohol takes over our brains and we do not think rationally.
I believe that they did love us more than alcohol when you first get together. Then the terrible disease takes over and that becomes their number one priority, facilitating when he will get his next drink. Hugs my friend we are here for you!!
Life was all about facilitating drinking. My partner was a 'bit player' to support/enable me. My behavior is completely unacceptable and it is 100% typical of an alcoholic. We make terrible partners because - and this will be hard for you to hear - we love alcohol far more than we love our own partners. We will sacrifice anything, relationships with family, our business, our self respect, anything, to feed our addiction. We can't help it, alcohol takes over our brains and we do not think rationally.
I believe that they did love us more than alcohol when you first get together. Then the terrible disease takes over and that becomes their number one priority, facilitating when he will get his next drink. Hugs my friend we are here for you!!
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Hugs, friend. This exact thing has weighed heavy on my heart lately. I'm still mourning-and echo honeypigs words almost exactly: the first real glimpse into the drunk monster my then husband could become was just two weeks after our wedding-almost two years after we met. We were at a friends party and he got so drunk that I didbt want to get in the car with him. I told him I would not ride home with him. He, in front of many people, screamed at me "you're my fu**ing wife-get your a** in the car". When I said, no, he drove off leaving me there at the party alone. Needles to say this was ten years ago but at the time I remember thinking "what did I do?!, did I not love him enough and that's why he treated me that way?!, etc). That was one of the first times that turned into one too many times and I had enough-more than enough. As my therapist stated, a normie would have walked out on that relationship after that event-but not me, damnit, I loved him and I knew he loved me so I kept trying to love him through all his demons, rage, etc. Until I woke up.
The love was real, but the addiction and unresolved issues were stronger and wrecked everything good that was there-and there was a lot of good.
I seriously hate every damn thing about alcoholism. It kills marriages, people, innocent childhoods and most importantly, souls. Only Gods unconditional love is strong enough to bring an alcoholi to his knees and raise him back up in His image. We were never their first love to begin with-just accomplices along for the ride.
Love to you!
The love was real, but the addiction and unresolved issues were stronger and wrecked everything good that was there-and there was a lot of good.
I seriously hate every damn thing about alcoholism. It kills marriages, people, innocent childhoods and most importantly, souls. Only Gods unconditional love is strong enough to bring an alcoholi to his knees and raise him back up in His image. We were never their first love to begin with-just accomplices along for the ride.
Love to you!
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Join Date: Jun 2015
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The love was real, but the addiction and unresolved issues were stronger and wrecked everything good that was there-and there was a lot of good.
I seriously hate every damn thing about alcoholism. It kills marriages, people, innocent childhoods and most importantly, souls. Only Gods unconditional love is strong enough to bring an alcoholi to his knees and raise him back up in His image. We were never their first love to begin with-just accomplices along for the ride.
I seriously hate every damn thing about alcoholism. It kills marriages, people, innocent childhoods and most importantly, souls. Only Gods unconditional love is strong enough to bring an alcoholi to his knees and raise him back up in His image. We were never their first love to begin with-just accomplices along for the ride.
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Join Date: Aug 2013
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For me it was much like the boiling frog analogy where things built slowly (and of course each thing taken alone was "not that bad") until one day it was all seen together as holy he** how did I get here!
And now that I'm truthful with myself, I realize his drinking always made me uncomfortable, even when we were dating.
And now that I'm truthful with myself, I realize his drinking always made me uncomfortable, even when we were dating.
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Ally, most alcoholics aren't monsters, and most monsters aren't alcoholics. While we might love the person there comes a time when the destructive forces drive us away. It might take a long time to come to that point because it seems like a selfish decision, but staying and trying to help is useless to everyone.
Best wishes for your life now. I'm sure you did the only thing possible.
Best wishes for your life now. I'm sure you did the only thing possible.
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Speaking of the addict's/alcoholic brain, have you ever seen what alcohol and drugs do physically to the brain? Yesterday, I watched a short Dr. Phil video where he demonstrates to some young teenage kid what alcohol does to brain and liver, and they compared healthy vs. alcoholic brain. It was shocking. The difference was more than obvious. I knew this before, but these guys really tried to "demonstrate" the difference. Zombies have better-looking brains than that.
Now if involved with an alcoholic, you are dealing with an impaired mind and brain. They do love us, but not the way we think they do, not the way one should be loved. You basically become a tool. My husband (now ex) loved the enabler in me, the innocent young woman who would do everything for his love, and we kept playing the game for a very long time. But young women mature and start questioning. And sooner or later you get to the point when you tell yourself "hey, this is not it." And then he gets mad how do I even dare to break away from him.
That is another thing. They create a reality for themselves, so the addiction survives. They will rather make you look like a monster, as this is something that gives them an excuse. They will blame the whole world. Sometimes they even fabricate stories, only to justify their drinking.
It is just a horrible, horrible disease.
Now if involved with an alcoholic, you are dealing with an impaired mind and brain. They do love us, but not the way we think they do, not the way one should be loved. You basically become a tool. My husband (now ex) loved the enabler in me, the innocent young woman who would do everything for his love, and we kept playing the game for a very long time. But young women mature and start questioning. And sooner or later you get to the point when you tell yourself "hey, this is not it." And then he gets mad how do I even dare to break away from him.
That is another thing. They create a reality for themselves, so the addiction survives. They will rather make you look like a monster, as this is something that gives them an excuse. They will blame the whole world. Sometimes they even fabricate stories, only to justify their drinking.
It is just a horrible, horrible disease.
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This ^^^^. My ex has fabricated many stories to make me out to be the monster and to justify anything and everything. He's still putting alcohol first-before himself-which makes him extremely unstable. I am glad I no longer have a front row seat to watch it continue-that was too heartbreaking and scary.
Was thinking lately about the biblical view of alcoholism and demons-those come from the devil...and they are the surest way to kill love....which comes from God. So really, this is a spiritual battle which is why I choose to fight with prayer.
Anyway, just my two cents! Peace to y'all today.
Was thinking lately about the biblical view of alcoholism and demons-those come from the devil...and they are the surest way to kill love....which comes from God. So really, this is a spiritual battle which is why I choose to fight with prayer.
Anyway, just my two cents! Peace to y'all today.
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One thing I have picked up on in particular is the fact that in the beginning at least, many of us describe our relationships with As as perfect, being soul mates, so compatible, basically prince charmings.
i don't think we can put that ALL on THEM or on alcohol.....we too played a part. we created our own reality.....we chose to see them as our EVERYTHING, OUR Prince Charming. we thought we had found THE ONE.
no one is perfect. so it is no surprise that our chosen one's flaws reared their heads.....it was just a matter of time. yet even when they did begin to show a different self, a raw, unrefined, very imperfect self, we rationalized and justified and minimized the things that did not FIT in our view of perfection.
so who was the more authentic?
i don't think we can put that ALL on THEM or on alcohol.....we too played a part. we created our own reality.....we chose to see them as our EVERYTHING, OUR Prince Charming. we thought we had found THE ONE.
no one is perfect. so it is no surprise that our chosen one's flaws reared their heads.....it was just a matter of time. yet even when they did begin to show a different self, a raw, unrefined, very imperfect self, we rationalized and justified and minimized the things that did not FIT in our view of perfection.
so who was the more authentic?
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Yep very true.
In a way, we were "matching" at that time, I needed a prince charming (or so to say, I thought a prince could solve my problems and fill the emptiness), and he did paint himself as one. And I chose to believe him. And then, when he was not acting like one, I tried harder, because it was hard to accept the reality. But in my defense, I must say that he was a damn good liar.
And even today it is hard, and I have a bitter pill to swallow. But it is what it is.
In a way, we were "matching" at that time, I needed a prince charming (or so to say, I thought a prince could solve my problems and fill the emptiness), and he did paint himself as one. And I chose to believe him. And then, when he was not acting like one, I tried harder, because it was hard to accept the reality. But in my defense, I must say that he was a damn good liar.
And even today it is hard, and I have a bitter pill to swallow. But it is what it is.
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Don't get me wrong I was never under the impression he was perfect, no one is and it is completely unrealistic to think anyone will ever be. Including myself, but he was perfect for me- or so I thought. I don't think it is a case of minimizing flaws as such but it is inevitable the longer you are with someone you will see more of their character and it is whether those parts are acceptable or not.
I never saw anything that was a line for me prior to this year. In fact a lot of the time I thought I was the more difficult one in the relationship, I became irritable and snappy and felt so much guilt but looking back I see even this was a reaction to him distancing himself from me and a total unwillingness to share with me and discuss the future. Now I finally know why- because he didn't see one with me because that also meant one without alcohol. Part of me thinks the cheating was planned to get rid of me as crazy as that sounds. He knew it was the worst thing he could do to me.
I never saw anything that was a line for me prior to this year. In fact a lot of the time I thought I was the more difficult one in the relationship, I became irritable and snappy and felt so much guilt but looking back I see even this was a reaction to him distancing himself from me and a total unwillingness to share with me and discuss the future. Now I finally know why- because he didn't see one with me because that also meant one without alcohol. Part of me thinks the cheating was planned to get rid of me as crazy as that sounds. He knew it was the worst thing he could do to me.
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Ally-I know exactly what you mean! I never thought my ex was perfect-I didn't wabt perfect-I'm not perfect-nobody is....BUT I thought he was perfect for me-meaning we would grow together and learn and not live in denial....I think that's what makes two people last...not perfection. There is no perfect love-we humans fudge it up-Gods love is the only perfect and unconditional love. I think that we too, codependents, are at fault bc we want to badly to believe their words that we don't believe their actions ...and maybe we construct a false reality as well bc the truth is too much for us to bear bc we know we have to make a choice once we accept the truth?! And as anvil said, who was the authentic one???? Stuff to think about. I know for me that was one of the many reasons I chose to leave my marriage-I wanted to live an authentic life and not pretend anymore. I am a woman who will not live with alcoholism (the lies, projection, enabling, dysfunction) and will not allow it around my innocent kids. They will be raised in the truth and to know what love, real love, truly is. Love isn't all roses-sometimes to love someone as God describes we must tell the truth and let others be accountable for their actions, no matter how hard it is. That to me is love. My pastor always tells the truth IS the definition of love. I agree.
Rambling today!! Sundays are my introspective days
Rambling today!! Sundays are my introspective days
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Originally Posted by Ally89
.... many of us describe our relationships with As as perfect, being soul mates, so compatible, basically prince charmings. ....
Originally Posted by Ally89
.... we were genuinely in love for a very long time but as the disease progressed and changed him and it became his sole preoccupation, this is when everything started to break down and end in a complete wreck.....
Originally Posted by Ally89
.... I now also supposed to be worried about someone who seems perfect for me....
I have known couples who had a relationships that lasted forever, but they were not perfect for each other. They just got lucky and managed to grow as individuals along mostly parallel paths. That is why they get featured in the news, because it is so rare.
What I have to worry about in future relationships is how I am going to take care of _me_ such that I am able to get out of a mess _before_ it blows up in my face. How to control my own "addiction to fantasies" so that I can see people as they really are, and not as they have the _potential_ to be. That light at the end of the tunnel? It's not the exit, it's the ***** locomotive and no matter what I do it's not going to slow down. Recovery is about getting out of the tunnel _before_ the train hits me.
Mike
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I have a lot to learn in terms of my own recovery and how I can be happy in myself but I don't think I will ever lose faith that you can place your happiness in someone else too.
Lose your own sense of self and happiness no, but I refuse to subscribe to the idea that it is unhealthy to always be an 'us' instead of 'me'. I know my heart is capable of a selfless type of love and that is what I am taking with me out of all of this heartache. There seem to be a lot of others out there like it too.
Lose your own sense of self and happiness no, but I refuse to subscribe to the idea that it is unhealthy to always be an 'us' instead of 'me'. I know my heart is capable of a selfless type of love and that is what I am taking with me out of all of this heartache. There seem to be a lot of others out there like it too.
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