What are we really doing???
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 5
What are we really doing???
I am new to this forum and appreciate that we can express out opinions and life experiences here in order to help us define our lives with input from others about their life experiences. I am relatively new to recovery and can relate to many stories I have read about her and it has inspired me to share mine.
The woman I fell in love with labels herself is an "alcoholic" I put that word in quotations because I believe that it is a label that impedes her personal growth, I have watched and experienced her make choices that have been very destructive to her well being and the well being of others I have supported her in treatment twice and this is the second go around of her "sobriety". I believe that labelling oneself as an alcoholic or anything for that matter will limit your personal growth because it set a set if rules that apply specifically to you based on the last 200 years plus that we have defined the label we attach to our existence. I believe we have been through certain interactions where we have made beliefs about our selfs that aren't necessarily true and trying to identify those negative believes and irradicate them from our sense of self is the keys to finding happiness because that I what we are all pursuing is it not. As a young child I was emotionally neglected from the age 5 or 6, and because of that neglect in those specific moments I made a belief up about myself based on my perception of what had happened not knowing that what I believed wasent true but I made it my truth and gravitated towards similar interactions to solidify that negative belief I made up about my self. As I have experienced sobriety with my "A" nothing has changed except the drinking and actually things could not be worse for our relationship however that is a contribution of choices each of us has made in regards to the dynamics of a healthy relationship, what I have recently learned is there is no difference between an alcoholic and a non alcoholic, we are all the same struggling to gain inner peace the problem is that not to many people I have encountered have peace and I believe it is because they are not looking for peace where they should be as well as myself, the human heart and mind will never find peace if it is continually looking outward for it. It is only within you'll find peace and I believe it is a life long journey. I love my wife a I love myself and I will never label her it is counter productive to the thoughts and minds if us both.
The woman I fell in love with labels herself is an "alcoholic" I put that word in quotations because I believe that it is a label that impedes her personal growth, I have watched and experienced her make choices that have been very destructive to her well being and the well being of others I have supported her in treatment twice and this is the second go around of her "sobriety". I believe that labelling oneself as an alcoholic or anything for that matter will limit your personal growth because it set a set if rules that apply specifically to you based on the last 200 years plus that we have defined the label we attach to our existence. I believe we have been through certain interactions where we have made beliefs about our selfs that aren't necessarily true and trying to identify those negative believes and irradicate them from our sense of self is the keys to finding happiness because that I what we are all pursuing is it not. As a young child I was emotionally neglected from the age 5 or 6, and because of that neglect in those specific moments I made a belief up about myself based on my perception of what had happened not knowing that what I believed wasent true but I made it my truth and gravitated towards similar interactions to solidify that negative belief I made up about my self. As I have experienced sobriety with my "A" nothing has changed except the drinking and actually things could not be worse for our relationship however that is a contribution of choices each of us has made in regards to the dynamics of a healthy relationship, what I have recently learned is there is no difference between an alcoholic and a non alcoholic, we are all the same struggling to gain inner peace the problem is that not to many people I have encountered have peace and I believe it is because they are not looking for peace where they should be as well as myself, the human heart and mind will never find peace if it is continually looking outward for it. It is only within you'll find peace and I believe it is a life long journey. I love my wife a I love myself and I will never label her it is counter productive to the thoughts and minds if us both.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Welcome, and with all due respect I think you are very wrong about alcoholics being "just like other people." We aren't. I've been in two marriages to alcoholics and am almost seven years sober, myself, and I've been around recovery from alcoholism since my first husband got sober 35 years ago.
If you truly want to support your wife's recovery, accept her acknowledgement of her alcoholism. True recovery involves plenty of personal growth. Is she involved in AA? That program is ALL about spiritual and personal growth, not about feeling bad about oneself.
If you haven't checked into it, Al-Anon might be very helpful for you.
If you truly want to support your wife's recovery, accept her acknowledgement of her alcoholism. True recovery involves plenty of personal growth. Is she involved in AA? That program is ALL about spiritual and personal growth, not about feeling bad about oneself.
If you haven't checked into it, Al-Anon might be very helpful for you.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
I am a recovering alcoholic.
I still identify with the label because if I forget who I am, I am in peril.
Alcoholism isn't just a psychological issue. There is a physiological component to it and a genetic predisposition. I hope you can take some time to work on your issues around this truth. I would suggest reading some recovery based literature.
Welcome to the forums.
I still identify with the label because if I forget who I am, I am in peril.
Alcoholism isn't just a psychological issue. There is a physiological component to it and a genetic predisposition. I hope you can take some time to work on your issues around this truth. I would suggest reading some recovery based literature.
Welcome to the forums.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
alcoholism isn't a label like "stupid" - it is the name given to a specific illness. In a medical context alcoholism is said to exist when two or more of the following is present: a person drinks large amounts over a long time period, has difficulty cutting down, acquiring and drinking alcohol takes up a great deal of time, alcohol is strongly desired, usage results in not fulfilling responsibilities, usage results in social problems, usage results in health problems, usage results in risky situations, withdrawal occurs when stopping, and alcohol tolerance has occurred with use ( "Alcohol Use Disorder: A Comparison Between DSM–IV and DSM–5". November 2013. Retrieved 9 May 2015).
the solution is for the afflicted person to address their condition, abstain from ANY alcohol and it is suggested they seek some form of treatment or therapy or self-help support. because alcoholism is a physical compulsion coupled with a mental obsession, just NOT drinking is often not enough to enact a true CHANGE and freedom from the bondage of addiction.
achieving recovery can be a very rocky road with stops and starts, periods of sobriety and relapse. it also opens the door to a tumult of emotions, anxieties, and fears. ever run into someone about 4 days off cigarettes? ever cross the street to AVOID someone 4 days off cigarettes? LOL
while you can walk with your wife on this journey, the path is truly HERS. i support the suggestion that you too seek out whatever help or support you find beneficial for your own growth.
the solution is for the afflicted person to address their condition, abstain from ANY alcohol and it is suggested they seek some form of treatment or therapy or self-help support. because alcoholism is a physical compulsion coupled with a mental obsession, just NOT drinking is often not enough to enact a true CHANGE and freedom from the bondage of addiction.
achieving recovery can be a very rocky road with stops and starts, periods of sobriety and relapse. it also opens the door to a tumult of emotions, anxieties, and fears. ever run into someone about 4 days off cigarettes? ever cross the street to AVOID someone 4 days off cigarettes? LOL
while you can walk with your wife on this journey, the path is truly HERS. i support the suggestion that you too seek out whatever help or support you find beneficial for your own growth.
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: east coast
Posts: 1,332
Realizing I was an alcoholic saved me. I wasn't just a morally bankrupt bum. I had a real illness and could get better with the help of others just like me. Labeling oneself an alcoholic is often the first step to a successful recovery
aka Nesty
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Northern Vt.
Posts: 1,554
I couldn't just say "Oh I have a Drinking problem- No big deal ".. Wrong I have a disease/illness which is Alcoholism . I will always be in some type of recovering.
In my opinion - There is No cure - except Pure will & hard work to over come this addiction . I will always Be an Alcoholic , but I stand proud to say - I'm Sober today & try to stay that way for Life
I hope you & your wife can figure out some future plans to over come this Beast - that can Kill us in the End - If we don't stay strong to Fight it .
In my opinion - There is No cure - except Pure will & hard work to over come this addiction . I will always Be an Alcoholic , but I stand proud to say - I'm Sober today & try to stay that way for Life
I hope you & your wife can figure out some future plans to over come this Beast - that can Kill us in the End - If we don't stay strong to Fight it .
Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 171
I understand what you are saying. I never wanted to label my exbf as an alcoholic while I was with him, because of the negative association it had. It is a condition, though, and it is present when one has an addiction to alcohol and continues using alcohol, even though it causes them many problems in their life. That's a simplified definition, but it is pretty much the basis of the condition. The alcoholic differs from the rest of us by this association, because they do not stop the destructive behavior that comes with alcohol abuse.
What you say on a deeper level, though, is correct. The attitude of correcting negative behavior does come from within. In that aspect, the alcoholic is no different than the rest of us.
The challenge is changing the meaning of the term and label of alcoholic to mean a legitimate illness or condition that the person is suffering from, and remove the negative stigma associated with it as a base problem. Mental health and its labeling of conditions, in general, has this issue, but it doesn't mean that the names of these conditions should be ignored, or thrown out the door. I think that more work needs to be done to remove the negative stigma surrounding these conditions, instead of accepting them.
What you say on a deeper level, though, is correct. The attitude of correcting negative behavior does come from within. In that aspect, the alcoholic is no different than the rest of us.
The challenge is changing the meaning of the term and label of alcoholic to mean a legitimate illness or condition that the person is suffering from, and remove the negative stigma associated with it as a base problem. Mental health and its labeling of conditions, in general, has this issue, but it doesn't mean that the names of these conditions should be ignored, or thrown out the door. I think that more work needs to be done to remove the negative stigma surrounding these conditions, instead of accepting them.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by LexieCat 
Welcome, and with all due respect I think you are very wrong about alcoholics being "just like other people." We aren't. I've been in two marriages to alcoholics and am almost seven years sober, myself, and I've been around recovery from alcoholism since my first husband got sober 35 years ago.
If you truly want to support your wife's recovery, accept her acknowledgement of her alcoholism. True recovery involves plenty of personal growth. Is she involved in AA? That program is ALL about spiritual and personal growth, not about feeling bad about oneself.
If you haven't checked into it, Al-Anon might be very helpful for you.
If you truly want to support your wife's recovery, accept her acknowledgement of her alcoholism. True recovery involves plenty of personal growth. Is she involved in AA? That program is ALL about spiritual and personal growth, not about feeling bad about oneself.
If you haven't checked into it, Al-Anon might be very helpful for you.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,792
GD- why does she need a label anyway for you to call her this? Can't you say she has an "allergy " towards alcohol?" Not sure why it even matters, are you trying to fight her "diagnosis'? I'm confused I guess.
It sure looks like you have done your homework to help support your wife's addictions with all the meetings and education. I am so sorry for what you have had to "deal" with. I read here a lot of men don't have a lot of patience with their wives drinking problems and up and leave.
From your posting you seem pretty "angry". I get it, as I just divorced my (XAH) after 34 years together. I too spent 2 nights a week in open AA and 2 nights a week in alanon meetings plus SR in the evenings and I learned a ton.
I don't have what you have, (anger), maybe because I gave him to God to watch over him. I couldn't do it any longer?? Maybe you are at that point, who knows? But the last couple years I had to make piece with myself as I didn't like me, or know who I even was. I have come to terms with that, now. Sad that I had to let my X go and find his way, but life is so much better.
Hugs my friend, I hope you find what you are looking for in these walls. Lot of experience talking, ask and you will receive.
It sure looks like you have done your homework to help support your wife's addictions with all the meetings and education. I am so sorry for what you have had to "deal" with. I read here a lot of men don't have a lot of patience with their wives drinking problems and up and leave.
From your posting you seem pretty "angry". I get it, as I just divorced my (XAH) after 34 years together. I too spent 2 nights a week in open AA and 2 nights a week in alanon meetings plus SR in the evenings and I learned a ton.
I don't have what you have, (anger), maybe because I gave him to God to watch over him. I couldn't do it any longer?? Maybe you are at that point, who knows? But the last couple years I had to make piece with myself as I didn't like me, or know who I even was. I have come to terms with that, now. Sad that I had to let my X go and find his way, but life is so much better.
Hugs my friend, I hope you find what you are looking for in these walls. Lot of experience talking, ask and you will receive.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
so i'm confused....your opening post was about the "woman you love" and her battles with alcohol. but your reply post seems to indicate that you have had your own battle with alcohol? you attend AA meetings - ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS - but have trouble with term Alcoholic? it's Friday and i may just not have much functioning brain power after the work................
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Join Date: Aug 2015
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I quess I need to re word my post because it seems to have been mis interpreted or maybe just not understood. I have no anger nor do I think AA is bad, however through my experience and only mine because I cannot speak to you and yours, I have learned through meetings and through other groups that concentrate on personal growth that there are other ways other than limiting to one specific group. AA. Has a very strong reputation for helping people with a drinking problem I have witnessed as you all have that attend, and I do not believe in labelling anyone as an alcoholic nor do I agree with the fact that I or anyone show submit there power to choose to anyone or thing or God. In the religious sense God created us with free will however AA asks us to relinquish this free will to choose how we manage and control the situations we are faced with everyday, I would not let someone else choose how I should act or what I should do, if I realize I have done something morally incorrect or chose to do something out of hate instead of love I need to ask where that choice is coming from what is it in me that is causing me to make a non loving choice, there are millions of reasons and everyone's are different according to how they have experienced life from birth to the present day, so once I have asked myself and I really need to dig deep as well all do and be honest with our selfs and submit to the healing process of the internal questioning and realize it is about me and not anyone else than I can start to make progress. I believe in support systems and I believe in sharing and I believe that we all are from a place of love, where it gets complicated is what is it that caused me or you to think we didn't come from a place of love that is where our healing begins is tapping into that moment and there could be many for some of us and realizing the belief we had made about ourselves and than ask if it is true. If your truly are spiritual and have a higher power or source of one than you will now that whatever belief you made up about who you are if it is not a belief of love, acceptance and inclusion than you need to change that belief by choosing to not believe it anymore regardless of the opinions of others, your opinion of you is your reality if you don't like your reality than change your opinion. I happen to love my reality and learn to love it a little more every day. I have no anger I love my wife it is she that needs to love herself as we all do.
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Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 171
Basically, you're saying that alcoholism is a symptom of a deeper issue. That is usually correct. Group meetings alone don't cure issues that send you to use alcohol as a coping mechanism. Group meetings encourage outside therapy and counseling if needed, but primarily work as a support system for maintaining sobriety.
Sobriety is the alcoholic's first step to recovery. Then the recovery can really begin.
Sobriety is the alcoholic's first step to recovery. Then the recovery can really begin.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
OK, so I don't get the point, either. I fail to see how acknowledging one is an alcoholic is inconsistent with self-examination and addressing the "causes and conditions" that lead to alcoholism.
I'm bowing out of this thread because it seems like a circular debate that has nothing to do with recovery from the effects of living with someone else's alcoholism.
I'm bowing out of this thread because it seems like a circular debate that has nothing to do with recovery from the effects of living with someone else's alcoholism.
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,792
GD- I have to be very honest with you. I tried to control my X, my adult children, my world for that matter and I couldn't do it. When I truly gave my power to "my God," is when I became at peace with all in my life. I get that you don't want to give your power to anyone else. I didn't for about 30 years either. But I had no choice, but when I finally let things happen as "God" had intended, with out me interfering with solving, saving or what ever happened to the people in my life, is only when I found SERENITY!!! IMO!!!
By passing over my out of control ways to God, and surrendering, is the only time in my life i have been at peace. So I understand where you are coming from and I think its awesome that you love your wife and you love your reality more every day, and that you are not angry? My question is to you.... WHY ARE YOU HERE THEN? Are you here to say there is no higher power to people who like me finally accepted that? I guess I am just not sure why you are telling me that no one should have control over someone else? It has helped THOUSANDS OF alanons and alcoholics and addicts to follow this principal. When we all stop fighting, and start accepting - is when we all can truly heal.
Help me understand???
By passing over my out of control ways to God, and surrendering, is the only time in my life i have been at peace. So I understand where you are coming from and I think its awesome that you love your wife and you love your reality more every day, and that you are not angry? My question is to you.... WHY ARE YOU HERE THEN? Are you here to say there is no higher power to people who like me finally accepted that? I guess I am just not sure why you are telling me that no one should have control over someone else? It has helped THOUSANDS OF alanons and alcoholics and addicts to follow this principal. When we all stop fighting, and start accepting - is when we all can truly heal.
Help me understand???
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: uk
Posts: 368
free will and belief.
Three points, then I will bow out, but I felt they were important to address.
Firstly, most people do not simply invent/make up a belief system for themselves. Most adopt beliefs that make sense to then and which they believe to be true.
Secondly, beliefs that are only inclusive and accepting are very poor ones. One of the main tenets of many religions and belief systems is the aim to be better, healthier, kinder etc. Part of that will always involve rejecting since behaviours and ideas in ourselves and in others, and that is a healthy thing. It helps us grow and it protects us, some things are just unacceptable and learning to love ourselves and others sometimes means walking away.
Thirdly, having a higher power does not have to mean giving up responsibility for our choices and actions. At its simplest, it's about acknowledging that we don't have all the answers and instead of reinventing the wheel, should look to other people's experiences and advice. 200 years of knowledge about alcoholism, for example. Or thousands of years of wisdom in some religions.
Therein lies the benefit of labels, faith, higher powers and fellowship. Not having to reinvent the wheel, being humble enough to listen to others and ask for help
Firstly, most people do not simply invent/make up a belief system for themselves. Most adopt beliefs that make sense to then and which they believe to be true.
Secondly, beliefs that are only inclusive and accepting are very poor ones. One of the main tenets of many religions and belief systems is the aim to be better, healthier, kinder etc. Part of that will always involve rejecting since behaviours and ideas in ourselves and in others, and that is a healthy thing. It helps us grow and it protects us, some things are just unacceptable and learning to love ourselves and others sometimes means walking away.
Thirdly, having a higher power does not have to mean giving up responsibility for our choices and actions. At its simplest, it's about acknowledging that we don't have all the answers and instead of reinventing the wheel, should look to other people's experiences and advice. 200 years of knowledge about alcoholism, for example. Or thousands of years of wisdom in some religions.
Therein lies the benefit of labels, faith, higher powers and fellowship. Not having to reinvent the wheel, being humble enough to listen to others and ask for help
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
The most common trait of alcoholism is that the alcoholic spins their wheels trying to control how much they drink, only to fail over and over BECAUSE an alcoholic cannot control their drinking. AA steps start with an admission of this powerlessness. Once a person admits they cannot control how much they drink they can move on in recovery. Without that admission there is not any point. AA does not promote that one give up "all control" to a higher power in the sense that once you do its a cake walk - and that's how your post comes across. One does maintain the free will to walk the path of healing. I think we all know people that think putting their faith in something is all it takes, and then like magic everything is solved. Not. Turning it over to your higher power is nothing more than an admission that YOU are an addict, and YOU can not control your addiction in the terms of moderating it. Faith is what carries humans through tough and discouraging times.
The whole purpose of the step program is about self discovery. Have you really ever been to an AA meeting? It seems like you have not rather are judging it without every having been there because you are talking in circles.
There is a difference between an alcoholic and a non-alcoholic. An alcoholic cannot control their drinking, period. A non-alcoholic can. I don't think you will get very far here with your thought process that everyone is the same. Most people share common experiences for sure and lots of differences. Going back to childhood and/or trying to decipher the "why it happened" is a really fruitless experiment. There are hundreds of thousands of alcoholics that came from good homes, were loved, supported, etc. and yet there are alcoholics. Why is that? You want to pigeon hole "figuring out" why one took their first drink as the root of alcoholism. Bah. Nobody knows if they are an alcoholic when they start drinking. Most people start drinking socially and it has no more meaning than that. To the contrary there are also people who have experienced grave and horrific childhoods or life experiences and they are not alcoholic. Why is that? Shouldn't they be? Certainly one could turn to dependence on alcohol or other substances to deal with pain - but it doesn't mean they are an alcoholic if they do.
Anywho this whole idea of no labels etc I find rather ridiculous. Its a word, and call it whatever you may, it doesn't change the definition. My mother calls her cancer "MM" we have been told never to refer to it by the term "cancer" in her presence. Guess what? Its still cancer.
The whole purpose of the step program is about self discovery. Have you really ever been to an AA meeting? It seems like you have not rather are judging it without every having been there because you are talking in circles.
There is a difference between an alcoholic and a non-alcoholic. An alcoholic cannot control their drinking, period. A non-alcoholic can. I don't think you will get very far here with your thought process that everyone is the same. Most people share common experiences for sure and lots of differences. Going back to childhood and/or trying to decipher the "why it happened" is a really fruitless experiment. There are hundreds of thousands of alcoholics that came from good homes, were loved, supported, etc. and yet there are alcoholics. Why is that? You want to pigeon hole "figuring out" why one took their first drink as the root of alcoholism. Bah. Nobody knows if they are an alcoholic when they start drinking. Most people start drinking socially and it has no more meaning than that. To the contrary there are also people who have experienced grave and horrific childhoods or life experiences and they are not alcoholic. Why is that? Shouldn't they be? Certainly one could turn to dependence on alcohol or other substances to deal with pain - but it doesn't mean they are an alcoholic if they do.
Anywho this whole idea of no labels etc I find rather ridiculous. Its a word, and call it whatever you may, it doesn't change the definition. My mother calls her cancer "MM" we have been told never to refer to it by the term "cancer" in her presence. Guess what? Its still cancer.
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