What works and what doesn't
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bklyn. NY
Posts: 1,859
What works and what doesn't
I'm not a newcomer, but this has to do with my early sobriety.
I was just reading some posts in another thread from someone who keeps struggling with getting and staying sober. I still can't help but to compare myself with these people, and wonder what I did differently. I got sober once, in 1984, after about 1000 previous attempts that were utterly unsuccessful. I should actually say I was treated for alcoholism once. And the treatment worked.
What I realized in the posts I was reading was that the person struggling was arguing what works and doesn't, and going to great lengths to prove their point. I never did that. I never read up on, studied, checked statistics, thought about, or even experimented with different things. I just acted. What I learned from that is that regarding this idea of sobriety (and probably 99% of other things in this world), knowledge means very little. Action means everything.
AA is what worked for me, but I don't believe this idea, or sobriety is limited to that. I was taken by the hand to a detox, and then an AA meeting, and I blindly trusted that whatever I was being told was to help me. I listened, I acted, and it worked. Had I stopped to say, "let me think about this," I'm certain I'd have found lots of reasons it might not work. I learned about the tabula rasa theory long ago, and because of the pain I was in, it was easy to apply. And necessary.
I've found these ideas to be helpful in many other areas of my life, also.
So... I guess there are 2 things (with the same these) here I feel work. Regardless of one's plan of action.
1. Action as opposed to knowledge.
2. Starting with a blank slate, as opposed to thinking we know it all. My contention is that until we're able to successfully get and stay sober, we don't know how to get and stay sober. Regardless of how certain we are that we do.
I'm certain there are lots of things like this apply to whatever methods people are choosing to stay sober. Would love to hear other people's thoughts, as I think this could turn into a really useful thread. For newcomers, and those with a few years under their belts as well.
[disclaimer] Of course there will be exception to anything anyone posts as there are no absolutes, but I think ya all get the idea
.
I was just reading some posts in another thread from someone who keeps struggling with getting and staying sober. I still can't help but to compare myself with these people, and wonder what I did differently. I got sober once, in 1984, after about 1000 previous attempts that were utterly unsuccessful. I should actually say I was treated for alcoholism once. And the treatment worked.
What I realized in the posts I was reading was that the person struggling was arguing what works and doesn't, and going to great lengths to prove their point. I never did that. I never read up on, studied, checked statistics, thought about, or even experimented with different things. I just acted. What I learned from that is that regarding this idea of sobriety (and probably 99% of other things in this world), knowledge means very little. Action means everything.
AA is what worked for me, but I don't believe this idea, or sobriety is limited to that. I was taken by the hand to a detox, and then an AA meeting, and I blindly trusted that whatever I was being told was to help me. I listened, I acted, and it worked. Had I stopped to say, "let me think about this," I'm certain I'd have found lots of reasons it might not work. I learned about the tabula rasa theory long ago, and because of the pain I was in, it was easy to apply. And necessary.
I've found these ideas to be helpful in many other areas of my life, also.
So... I guess there are 2 things (with the same these) here I feel work. Regardless of one's plan of action.
1. Action as opposed to knowledge.
2. Starting with a blank slate, as opposed to thinking we know it all. My contention is that until we're able to successfully get and stay sober, we don't know how to get and stay sober. Regardless of how certain we are that we do.
I'm certain there are lots of things like this apply to whatever methods people are choosing to stay sober. Would love to hear other people's thoughts, as I think this could turn into a really useful thread. For newcomers, and those with a few years under their belts as well.
[disclaimer] Of course there will be exception to anything anyone posts as there are no absolutes, but I think ya all get the idea
.
Canine Welfare Advocate
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 10,962
Originally Posted by Joe Nerv 
I1. Action as opposed to knowledge.
I also had to be completed vested in the process. One hundred percent committed to sobriety.
That bell or bike person
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: london
Posts: 4,978
It's one of the reasons i like the metaphor of riding a bike ,
you can read a book and understand how to ride a bike or fly an aeroplane but you can't ride a bike or fly an aeroplane .
m
you can read a book and understand how to ride a bike or fly an aeroplane but you can't ride a bike or fly an aeroplane .
m
Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 346
I also agree that action is the only way to get sober. However, knowledge is what keeps me sober. Obsessively studying what addiction is what stopped me from trying to moderate. Honestly, I was looking for an out. Only through research and acceptance of the fact that I did this to myself was I able to come to terms with the fact that I had to put in the work and dig myself out of it.
I really like this ^^^
I can't remember or seem to find the exact quote but somebody on here replied to me something along the lines of "statistics aren't facts, you chose whether or not something is going to work for you". It really stuck with me.
Originally Posted by Joe Nerv
t until we're able to successfully get and stay sober, we don't know how to get and stay sober.
I can't remember or seem to find the exact quote but somebody on here replied to me something along the lines of "statistics aren't facts, you chose whether or not something is going to work for you". It really stuck with me.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,860
Joe,
Thank you so much for this insight.
One of the many things I've learned from the wise journeyers on SR is that we can benefit so much from what others have to offer. Like you, I have noticed that when folks try to carve out their own solutions -- finding their own answers -- it is an exercise in frustration. Your observation about starting out with a blank slate is a good one. Let others write upon it and learn from their messages.
Again, really good message.
Thank you so much for this insight.
One of the many things I've learned from the wise journeyers on SR is that we can benefit so much from what others have to offer. Like you, I have noticed that when folks try to carve out their own solutions -- finding their own answers -- it is an exercise in frustration. Your observation about starting out with a blank slate is a good one. Let others write upon it and learn from their messages.
Again, really good message.
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
Like Axiom, knowledge was helpful to me early on. However, action is what propelled me forward into sobriety. And I agree with Mecanix about the bike metaphor and sobriety - you simply can't be sober until you put that drink down and move on into recovery.
I like to think I used both - knowledge coupled with action. I certainly made some mistakes along the way and was humbled to find out that I can't advance beyond where I actually stand at this moment in time along the recovery continuum.
I like to think I used both - knowledge coupled with action. I certainly made some mistakes along the way and was humbled to find out that I can't advance beyond where I actually stand at this moment in time along the recovery continuum.
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
Thinking is way overrated. It is used as a defense against action, a retreat from reality, and as camouflage for fear.
Anyone can be smart. I am most moved by people who comment on my heart, rather than my intelligence.
When thought becomes a burden, an obstacle to acting on our own behalf, we are either lying to ourselves or giving in to our fears. Often both. Things do not "get better" on their own. No amount of thinking, no matter how "deep," will save us from ourselves.
http://buddhazen101.tumblr.com/post/...poisoned-arrow
Anyone can be smart. I am most moved by people who comment on my heart, rather than my intelligence.
When thought becomes a burden, an obstacle to acting on our own behalf, we are either lying to ourselves or giving in to our fears. Often both. Things do not "get better" on their own. No amount of thinking, no matter how "deep," will save us from ourselves.
http://buddhazen101.tumblr.com/post/...poisoned-arrow
Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,087
Nice post, and couldn't agree with you more.
However, I would also say it's important to read up on some of the medical details of alcoholism. How it damages you, what to expect during withdrawals and in early sobriety, how your body will slowly heal itself, etc. Just basic things are even good to know, such as most alcoholics have a vitamin B deficiency, etc.
To be honest, I never even knew there was such a thing as alcohol withdrawals until I started having them. Didn't know DTs existed until I joined SR.
However, I would also say it's important to read up on some of the medical details of alcoholism. How it damages you, what to expect during withdrawals and in early sobriety, how your body will slowly heal itself, etc. Just basic things are even good to know, such as most alcoholics have a vitamin B deficiency, etc.
To be honest, I never even knew there was such a thing as alcohol withdrawals until I started having them. Didn't know DTs existed until I joined SR.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: southeastern USA
Posts: 310
Someone told me in reference to my always "thinking about it" that that is 'Paralysis by Analysis'. What's worked for me is to humble myself and accept that my best thinking just kept me drunk and if I was to get sober I'd best listen and follow the advice of those who had actually stopped drinking and stayed sober. Wonder of wonders--that has worked.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Nice post, thanks Joe.
I'm in the camp that likes to use both thinking and acting in recovery. For me, action without forethought and evaluation is more just impulsive action... the kind that kept me drinking in the past. But it's true that thinking and researching addiction and recovery, instead of doing it, does not lead us out of the hole at all -- my story is a good example, with years of official research on addiction. Never stopped me from drinking, it only made me more desperate knowing all those details actually. But once I decided to get sober and stuck with it, learning and knowledge had become very important and constructive in my recovery. For me, it's best as a balance: acquiring the information, and applying it in constructive, active ways. I've never been good at blankly following any order, but definitely after I failed quitting drinking for years on my own, everything I learned from others here on SR made the necessary difference. Together with doing it, obviously.
I think that putting down the drink is really simple and it does not require any thought, but maintaining sobriety would have never worked for me without serious planning and constant consideration of potential barriers and evaluation of my progress in early sobriety. It becomes an effortless, natural way of being with time, but the early days had to be planned for me.
I'm in the camp that likes to use both thinking and acting in recovery. For me, action without forethought and evaluation is more just impulsive action... the kind that kept me drinking in the past. But it's true that thinking and researching addiction and recovery, instead of doing it, does not lead us out of the hole at all -- my story is a good example, with years of official research on addiction. Never stopped me from drinking, it only made me more desperate knowing all those details actually. But once I decided to get sober and stuck with it, learning and knowledge had become very important and constructive in my recovery. For me, it's best as a balance: acquiring the information, and applying it in constructive, active ways. I've never been good at blankly following any order, but definitely after I failed quitting drinking for years on my own, everything I learned from others here on SR made the necessary difference. Together with doing it, obviously.
I think that putting down the drink is really simple and it does not require any thought, but maintaining sobriety would have never worked for me without serious planning and constant consideration of potential barriers and evaluation of my progress in early sobriety. It becomes an effortless, natural way of being with time, but the early days had to be planned for me.
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