Frustrated
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 18
Frustrated
Can someone please help me to understand before I lose my mind. I am not in recovery, my partner is and has been for three years (CA and AA). He goes to meetings, just started sponsoring, goes to detox to bring people to meetings. He's doing a great job with his recovery and I mean that when I say HIS RECOVERY. What is with Al-Anon and the 5 G's? Get off his back, get out of his way, get onto yourself, get to meetings, give him to God. Isn't recovery easier with a community of supportive people? Why would I give him to God or get out of his way. Why am I labelled codependent when I have my own life, my own interests? What is with the 4 M's, mothering, manipulating, managing, martyrdom? Why am I accused of these things when I am not his mother, he has one and I have a son. I refuse to save anyone. If he can't do his recovery on his own or manage his own life, he is no good to me. I'm sorry but I get so frustrated with fingers pointing and labels tossed at me. I am a normie, codependent, why am I not seen as a healthy support? Don't get involved, leave him alone, wow, do relationships even last. I'm sorry if I sound angry, I am just questioning things and need some clarification. Thanks for listening.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
Hi scarlet -- you do sound very frustrated, but I admit I am having a hard time figuring out what it is exactly that you are looking for...there are some contradictions in your post I can't quite unravel. Any chance of a little more information? Sorry you're so upset, I hope we can help!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 18
I have tried Al-Anon, those are the messages I am receiving. I don't see how they are supportive or how they help. The chapter in the BB for Wives, tells us not to get jealous, don't nag. So are we as partners suppose to just shut up, be still and not feel the things humans feel. What exactly do you find contradictory? I feel like those of us on the outside get no respect. It just seems like when you think you are being supportive and understanding, you get the finger pointed at you and are made to feel like crap or you're codependent. Has anyone else felt this way? Are all Al-Anon groups like this? Or have I just tried the worst of the worst. Do relationships even work out? Sorry but my head is spinning.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience with Al-Anon. I haven't been to Al-Anon myself, but from what I understand, many people have found that it helps them take their focus off the alcoholic and onto themselves. Alcoholism is a family disease, and it affects all members of the family whether they realize it or not.
My mother is an alcoholic and my father severely codependent. By constantly protecting her from the consequences of her actions, her disease progressed at an alarming rate, and the effects that their relationship dynamic had upon their three children was tremendous...and invisible. I think my dad would have had the same reaction to Al-Anon's principles as you have, but I wish he would have tried it out anyway. For all his protecting her and blinding supporting and agreeing with her, for trying to manage everything in an effort to not upset her, for hoping she would realize how her behavior was hurting others but never mentioning it, for of all that -- and he did that for about 30 years until his health wouldn't let him anymore -- nothing he did made a difference in improving the actual circumstances. She didn't want to recover, and he couldn't make her. All he did was keep her from wanting to.
More often than not I have heard on these boards, "Take what you want and leave the rest." If you are okay with how things are going for you, then it doesn't matter what other people say or think or where they point their fingers. But if you're hurting or confused or things in your life are becoming unmanageable, you might ask yourself if what you're doing now is making the difference you want it to. If not, perhaps there's a way to get through the feelings of being judged and to listen. It costs nothing, and if it doesn't work for you, you are absolutely allowed to let it go.
As for your last question, Do relationships ever work out? -- mine didn't, but that was for the best, for me. Where I have read of successful relationships is when both parties have dedicated to working their own recoveries individually and allowed their partner to do so without interference. By focusing on themselves and not the other person.
This is really confusing stuff, Scarlet, so don't beat yourself up if it feels overwhelming. The best we can ever do is be honest with ourselves about where we're at, whether we're happy, and whether we're waiting for others to validate us as opposed to learning to validate ourselves.
Please keep posting and talking. We want to listen and we've all been there. No one here wants to make you "feel like crap" or label you anything. We do want you to know you are supported and there is a way through all of this. Sending you strength and patience.
My mother is an alcoholic and my father severely codependent. By constantly protecting her from the consequences of her actions, her disease progressed at an alarming rate, and the effects that their relationship dynamic had upon their three children was tremendous...and invisible. I think my dad would have had the same reaction to Al-Anon's principles as you have, but I wish he would have tried it out anyway. For all his protecting her and blinding supporting and agreeing with her, for trying to manage everything in an effort to not upset her, for hoping she would realize how her behavior was hurting others but never mentioning it, for of all that -- and he did that for about 30 years until his health wouldn't let him anymore -- nothing he did made a difference in improving the actual circumstances. She didn't want to recover, and he couldn't make her. All he did was keep her from wanting to.
More often than not I have heard on these boards, "Take what you want and leave the rest." If you are okay with how things are going for you, then it doesn't matter what other people say or think or where they point their fingers. But if you're hurting or confused or things in your life are becoming unmanageable, you might ask yourself if what you're doing now is making the difference you want it to. If not, perhaps there's a way to get through the feelings of being judged and to listen. It costs nothing, and if it doesn't work for you, you are absolutely allowed to let it go.
As for your last question, Do relationships ever work out? -- mine didn't, but that was for the best, for me. Where I have read of successful relationships is when both parties have dedicated to working their own recoveries individually and allowed their partner to do so without interference. By focusing on themselves and not the other person.
This is really confusing stuff, Scarlet, so don't beat yourself up if it feels overwhelming. The best we can ever do is be honest with ourselves about where we're at, whether we're happy, and whether we're waiting for others to validate us as opposed to learning to validate ourselves.
Please keep posting and talking. We want to listen and we've all been there. No one here wants to make you "feel like crap" or label you anything. We do want you to know you are supported and there is a way through all of this. Sending you strength and patience.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
scarlet....lol. You are not the first person to ask these same questions.
From the way I look at it...those things that you mentioned are to help with the OVER enmeshment that is so common in relationships with an alcoholic or addicted person. Also, some of the "control freak" behaviors that some spouses use in order to try to control the alcoholism. Many spouses try desperately to control and "fix" (and, drive themselves crazy in the process).
I understand that you are in the process of some self-examination. To me that is a good thing for all humans to do. (part of taking responsibility for our own stuff, ya know).
If the shoe does not fit...don't wear it. If the LABEL doesn't fit...don't wear it, either...lol.
I say....continue to learn and self-evaluate. Try to keep an open mind, and be as honest with yourself as you can be...but, in the end, you will have to reach your own conclusions.
About relationships....some do make it, and, a lot don't. It is often pointed out, in recovery circles, that a relationship stand a better chance when both partners work a program separately. BUT, IT IS NOT A GUARANTEE.
People in recovery are not the same people that they were before recovery. In many respects, it is like a brand new relationship.
If you feel angry, don't feel bad about saying so. It is not good to stuff feelings. All feelings are genuine and real to the person experiencing the emotion. How that feeling is handled is what is important.
This is "tuff stuff", scarlet. No doubt about it.
dandylion
From the way I look at it...those things that you mentioned are to help with the OVER enmeshment that is so common in relationships with an alcoholic or addicted person. Also, some of the "control freak" behaviors that some spouses use in order to try to control the alcoholism. Many spouses try desperately to control and "fix" (and, drive themselves crazy in the process).
I understand that you are in the process of some self-examination. To me that is a good thing for all humans to do. (part of taking responsibility for our own stuff, ya know).
If the shoe does not fit...don't wear it. If the LABEL doesn't fit...don't wear it, either...lol.
I say....continue to learn and self-evaluate. Try to keep an open mind, and be as honest with yourself as you can be...but, in the end, you will have to reach your own conclusions.
About relationships....some do make it, and, a lot don't. It is often pointed out, in recovery circles, that a relationship stand a better chance when both partners work a program separately. BUT, IT IS NOT A GUARANTEE.
People in recovery are not the same people that they were before recovery. In many respects, it is like a brand new relationship.
If you feel angry, don't feel bad about saying so. It is not good to stuff feelings. All feelings are genuine and real to the person experiencing the emotion. How that feeling is handled is what is important.
This is "tuff stuff", scarlet. No doubt about it.
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: East Coast
Posts: 865
Alanon saved my sanity. Did I like it at first? NO I was mad as hell that I had to get help, this was his problem. But I am so glad I stuck it out.
In my personal experience it did take a few meetings for me to share AND it took me a while to find the right meeting, the right "fit".
At the end of the day it is your choice and hey, Alanon may not be for you and that is perfectly fine.
I read thru some of your older posts and there were some good links in them. Perhaps revisit them when you have a moment.
I might also suggest to try and read Codependent No More, it is a great resource!
And like Sparklekitty mentioned "Take what you want and leave the rest".
In my personal experience it did take a few meetings for me to share AND it took me a while to find the right meeting, the right "fit".
At the end of the day it is your choice and hey, Alanon may not be for you and that is perfectly fine.
I read thru some of your older posts and there were some good links in them. Perhaps revisit them when you have a moment.
I might also suggest to try and read Codependent No More, it is a great resource!
And like Sparklekitty mentioned "Take what you want and leave the rest".
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
You sound good and thoroughly pissed off. I can relate to that.
I fought the idea of Al-Anon for a long time, because it pissed me off that people told me I needed to do something just because he was a &*#$^& drunk. To me, it felt like if he had broken a leg and they told me that I should go have a cast put on my leg.
My situation was different than yours, because my ex wasn't in recovery. And maybe that's the thing that makes it difficult for you to see any usefulness with Al-Anon.
For me, I got desperate as his drinking got worse, and got to the point where I felt like "&#*$ it, if they tell me it will help to do cartwheels in the town square on the first Tuesday of every month, I'll do it!
So I don't know about your history with this man, if you were together while he was actively drinking, or if you got together once he was already in recovery? See, what I found -- and it took me one heck of a long time to see it -- was that as much as I thought that I was completely unaffected and that if I could just get him sober or get him out of my life, I could go back to living a normal life, that wasn't true.
And maybe you are, as you say, a normie, and you don't need Al-Anon. I found that I had learned a bunch of coping behaviors to put up with living with a drunk -- coping behaviors that were unhealthy and breaking me down both emotionally and physically. Being able to identify those, and start weeding them out, was really helpful to me.
I also was not in a position to afford counseling, so Al-Anon was sort of my "free counseling" where I could listen to and identify with other people who had gone through similar things. I didn't think there was anything wrong with me -- but then I'd hear other people tell stories where they acted the same way I acted, and I'd look at them and think "well, YOU're screwed up, lady"... and then realize that wait, I act the same way...
I think I went to about ten meetings before I felt like I had any use for them whatsoever. And I went to a few different ones before I found a group I felt I could relate to.
And the other thing I see in your post is that you really want to help your husband. So that's the other thing that was hard for me to grasp -- that there really was nothing I could do to help my husband. That the best way I could help my husband get sober was to make sure I was acting rationally and lovingly, that I had boundaries and that I didn't allow him to be the center of my world and run my life.
I will admit that every single thing Al-Anon taught me was completely counter-intuitive at first. Every single thing. The only thing I can tell you is that it worked for me, and it's continued to work for me. I still go to meetings 9 years later -- not because I'm dealing with an alcoholic, but because the program allows me to identify when I engage in unhealthy behaviors, and work to get rid of them. I now mostly see it as a personal development program, minus having to wear a suit and pay someone $5,000 for a weekend course.
I fought the idea of Al-Anon for a long time, because it pissed me off that people told me I needed to do something just because he was a &*#$^& drunk. To me, it felt like if he had broken a leg and they told me that I should go have a cast put on my leg.
My situation was different than yours, because my ex wasn't in recovery. And maybe that's the thing that makes it difficult for you to see any usefulness with Al-Anon.
For me, I got desperate as his drinking got worse, and got to the point where I felt like "&#*$ it, if they tell me it will help to do cartwheels in the town square on the first Tuesday of every month, I'll do it!
So I don't know about your history with this man, if you were together while he was actively drinking, or if you got together once he was already in recovery? See, what I found -- and it took me one heck of a long time to see it -- was that as much as I thought that I was completely unaffected and that if I could just get him sober or get him out of my life, I could go back to living a normal life, that wasn't true.
And maybe you are, as you say, a normie, and you don't need Al-Anon. I found that I had learned a bunch of coping behaviors to put up with living with a drunk -- coping behaviors that were unhealthy and breaking me down both emotionally and physically. Being able to identify those, and start weeding them out, was really helpful to me.
I also was not in a position to afford counseling, so Al-Anon was sort of my "free counseling" where I could listen to and identify with other people who had gone through similar things. I didn't think there was anything wrong with me -- but then I'd hear other people tell stories where they acted the same way I acted, and I'd look at them and think "well, YOU're screwed up, lady"... and then realize that wait, I act the same way...
I think I went to about ten meetings before I felt like I had any use for them whatsoever. And I went to a few different ones before I found a group I felt I could relate to.
And the other thing I see in your post is that you really want to help your husband. So that's the other thing that was hard for me to grasp -- that there really was nothing I could do to help my husband. That the best way I could help my husband get sober was to make sure I was acting rationally and lovingly, that I had boundaries and that I didn't allow him to be the center of my world and run my life.
I will admit that every single thing Al-Anon taught me was completely counter-intuitive at first. Every single thing. The only thing I can tell you is that it worked for me, and it's continued to work for me. I still go to meetings 9 years later -- not because I'm dealing with an alcoholic, but because the program allows me to identify when I engage in unhealthy behaviors, and work to get rid of them. I now mostly see it as a personal development program, minus having to wear a suit and pay someone $5,000 for a weekend course.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 18
Thank you all for your advice. It is greatly appreciated as this has and is a wild ride.
As for the last post, why do I go to Al-Anon if I'm not in recovery? That's what Al-Anon is there for, family, spouses, etc that need support. My partner suggested it years ago and so did a friend. His sponsor also thought it might help with the craziness that fills my head. Perhaps, I haven't found the right group yet, maybe it isn't for me. All I know is, it's hard sometimes. It's frustrating. You want to be supportive and understanding but then you're told to just let him do his thing. I will find my way. Sometimes it's just a lot to process and accept.
Thank you again
As for the last post, why do I go to Al-Anon if I'm not in recovery? That's what Al-Anon is there for, family, spouses, etc that need support. My partner suggested it years ago and so did a friend. His sponsor also thought it might help with the craziness that fills my head. Perhaps, I haven't found the right group yet, maybe it isn't for me. All I know is, it's hard sometimes. It's frustrating. You want to be supportive and understanding but then you're told to just let him do his thing. I will find my way. Sometimes it's just a lot to process and accept.
Thank you again
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Canada.
Posts: 795
Scarlet, I don't like Al Anon either. H will go to AA when he needs it, we see a non-12 step counselor for individual and marriage sessions, and use craft at home.
There is no one-size-fits-all approach. Al Anon doesn't work for all. I've tried *many* meetings over a period of three years, and still don't feel good in them. That's ok!
And to answer your question, yes, some relationships do work. They are hard, and take work, but doesn't everything worthwhile take hard work? My H and I have committed to working as a team on this, and while sometimes I feel like I want to throw in the towel and say "forget it", this is something I want to work on. It is hard to process and accept, you are right in that! I do not take responsibility for his drinking, but I can help create a supportive environment where he can learn to become a healthy person again, and that's what we are focusing on right now in our counseling.
There is no one-size-fits-all approach. Al Anon doesn't work for all. I've tried *many* meetings over a period of three years, and still don't feel good in them. That's ok!
And to answer your question, yes, some relationships do work. They are hard, and take work, but doesn't everything worthwhile take hard work? My H and I have committed to working as a team on this, and while sometimes I feel like I want to throw in the towel and say "forget it", this is something I want to work on. It is hard to process and accept, you are right in that! I do not take responsibility for his drinking, but I can help create a supportive environment where he can learn to become a healthy person again, and that's what we are focusing on right now in our counseling.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Al-Anon is a recovery program. It's more than just a "support group". A lot of times the "help and support" we are trying to give our alcoholic partners gets in the way of recovery for both of us. If you've been going to Al-Anon for a while, and trying different meetings, and you still find it not helpful to you, then maybe you don't need it. It isn't necessary to go to Al-Anon to support your partner's recovery. It's there for YOUR recovery, if you choose it.
In terms of supporting HIS recovery, apart from staying out of his way so he can do what he needs to do, there isn't a whole lot else you need to do. If you feel you are staying on your own side of the street and not trying to "manage" his recovery, then you're probably doing what you need to do, as far as he's concerned.
In terms of supporting HIS recovery, apart from staying out of his way so he can do what he needs to do, there isn't a whole lot else you need to do. If you feel you are staying on your own side of the street and not trying to "manage" his recovery, then you're probably doing what you need to do, as far as he's concerned.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
An al-anon welcome........
As a newcomer you may feel that you are here for the alcoholic…that your presence here may teach you how to stop his or her drinking. The truth is you are here because of the alcoholic and not for the alcoholic. You will soon learn you did not cause the alcoholic to drink, you cannot control the drinking, nor can you cure the alcoholic. You are here for yourself. You and you alone are responsible for dealing with your own pain. This is your program, it is your recovery from the effects of the disease of alcoholism.
As a newcomer you may feel that you are here for the alcoholic…that your presence here may teach you how to stop his or her drinking. The truth is you are here because of the alcoholic and not for the alcoholic. You will soon learn you did not cause the alcoholic to drink, you cannot control the drinking, nor can you cure the alcoholic. You are here for yourself. You and you alone are responsible for dealing with your own pain. This is your program, it is your recovery from the effects of the disease of alcoholism.
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