ArtFriend

I have had to go full no contact with my alcoholic brother due to constant verbal and psychological abuse. He has 4 kids (all in their 20s). I have had a fairly decent relationship with all of them until I went no contact with their dad. Now, none of the kids will speak to me. I am not understanding this. I can understand they want to be loyal to their dad, but why shut me out? I never ever say anything negative to the kids about their father. Never have and never will. It's between me and him, not the kids.

SparkleKitty

Unfortunately, you can't control what their father is saying to them, so it's possible he has portrayed himself as a victim in this scenario and they believe it.

Family dynamics in addicted families don't always make sense. If his kids are in denial about his alcoholism, they will be until they're not anymore. It may be that the best you can do is be there for them if and when they do reach out. Hang in there, I know it's hard. I've had to let go of my relationship with my own R(?)A mother and I have a lot of family members who judge me for it and only listen to her side of things. But then, I also have others who have seen her toxicity for themselves and who reached out in understanding later.

As always, the best you can do is take care of and protect yourself.

ArtFriend

Thanks Sparkle... that makes sense. I just feel badly that I have been unfairly portrayed by my brother. One of his sons emailed me and said that "he hates it when his dad and I do this". I thought there was an opening for some dialog there and I asked him if I could call him to discuss it. He stopped communicating altogether. I wish I make them see that I am not the evil woman they think I am.

SparkleKitty

I agree, it's really unfortunate. I hope they come around soon and at least give you a chance to tell your side of things. Rooting for you!

lillamy

You can only control you.

I think it was a member here years ago who had a situation where his AXW left him, and her adult children (from an earlier marriage) would not continue communicating with him, despite the fact that he was the only father figure they had ever had.

He made the deliberate choice to not expect anything from them, but to keep loving them. He sent them birthday cards, graduation cards, Christmas cards, small gifts (nothing big, nothing that said "I'm trying to buy your love" -- just small things), and didn't push the communication, just kept on telling them he loved them and thought of them.

I don't know what happened to those relationships, but I remember that his actions struck me as being very loving and very sincere -- not expecting anything in return, but always letting them know they were in his heart and thoughts.

NYCDoglvr

I'm sure it hurts a lot and yes, it is unfair. Perhaps it helps to see this as a temporary situation. Pray for them and for your brother. Things tend to work themselves out but in the meantime we're powerless over other people's thoughts, words and actions.

thotful

I have a similar experience. I have two siblings that I am estranged from. I have tried to direct the communication through them, but they refuse to resolve our issues.

My first estranged brother has 3 kids: 15 years old, 12 years old, and 8 years old. I was a very large part of their lives before the break. Last year I took the oldest boy to the Godzilla movie. Had to ask permission of the parents, and they agreed. I picked him up and we had fun. I honestly don't know what the kids hear on the other side (I have said nothing about it to them - but guess what? kids overhear things). Nothing I can control. I've seen them only a few times over the past few years. It's sad. My brother and his wife have NEVER, not once, expressed any interest in working to have my relationship with the kids be maintained. I want nothing to do with the parents because of their unapologetic abusive behavior. It's a really sucky set of collateral damage. When the kids are old enough to be on their own, things might be quite different. We'll see...

My second estranged brother has 2 kids. They're very young. They were both born in the midst of the estrangement. I don't know them at all.

I like the holiday card idea. I might consider that. Especially if I can make it clear that the card is for the children.

I have 6 brothers and a sister. Some are very open about the situation and understand my perspective, support my sobriety, etc. Others are hush-hush and don't want to get involved but are still in my life. 1 brother is quite upset with me. It's possible we won't have a relationship given his recent behavior (doesn't return calls, e-mails, not informed about important events in his life, etc). So, they're all responding in different ways.

I used to get super upset at the thought of the messed up stuff that would come out of my 1st estranged brother's mouth. That I would have no defense against it. That he could lie, exaggerate, or completely misrepresent the situation. I asked family members to back off and have them request that my brother address his issues with me (try not to get in the middle).

I worry about it significantly less now. My brother will spew whatever venom he pleases (and subsequently, my family will lie/exaggerate/deny that it is happening). I am told that he's not saying anything anymore. At the same time, I've been in his presence when he says horrible things about FOO members ("our mother is worthless", "the only reason us boys have success is because of our father", "our sister is a waste-of-space"), etc. I suppose the reason for me feeling less upset about his smear-campaign behavior is a couple of things:

1. Anyone that listens to the garbage is probably not someone that will be much support for me anyways - at least...not for now.

2. Anyone that doesn't listen will also happen to be supportive. Win-win there.

3. I have no control over his behavior - I have no control over other's reactions to his behavior - letting go helps me to get serene. It sucks to have my relationships sabotaged. But I wonder...how good is the relationship if SOMEONE ELSE'S words are the deciding factor? That they would leave a relationship simply because...essentially...they were told to. I am glad that I have the strength to not be manipulated in such a way. In some way, I feel pity for the person that lets a beautiful relationship be sunk in the water by a sabotaging iceberg that they didn't see simply because they're not paying attention.

4. My brother doesn't actually have control over anyone. In the end, it is their choice to listen...or NOT to listen. So, ultimately, it will always be their choice to have a relationship with me or not. My brother does not command that. I am MOST definitely afraid that I will be abandoned. I am also working on accepting the choices my FOO members make. They can listen to the garbage and cut our relationship off. OR, they can ignore the garbage and have a relationship with me. I have no control over this choice.

My two brothers are very likely dealing with addiction to alcohol. Their behavior has become more and more selfish, erratic, unforgiving, no-boundaries, etc. They are in complete denial due to being "high functioning" since they haven't experienced DUIs, job loss, marriage loss, etc. A sibling loss can be chalked off to be "thotful's fault". It doesn't surprise me that they need to do whatever they can to deflect blame. Such is the disease at work. Denial is it's greatest weapon. It slowly poisons the alcoholic and just about every relationship they have in their life.

9111111

This would be a hard situation for me too.

Alcoholics often tend to ignore F&F's boundaries.

It would be tempting for me to show the kids my love through words and reaching out, but maybe honoring their need for space and silence is the biggest sign of love you can send them right now?
Sometimes action speaks louder than words.

NWGRITS

Alcoholic families are full of the sickness. It's called a family disease for a reason. The immediate members will almost always band together when one is "attacked". Not much you can do but just be you, and if the window ever opens to communicate, be honest and caring but not overly pushy. That window can slam shut just as quickly as it was opened.

Hawkeye13

In my family, my Aunt and mother fell out and after that time until the day of her death,
my Aunt prohibited all of my cousins from speaking or having any contact with my brother or myself.
We had done nothing. I wasn't even ten years old yet.

Thirty plus years, I guess.
Until she died.

So since my only family was my brother, I
pretty much grew up with no extended family.

So yes, this happens. Kids are told stay away and many comply
to keep difficult parent placated.

Hangnbyathread

In stages over time, my whole family has gone no contact with my brother. To our knowledge he has no addictions, but he displays the patterns. I was the first one, my mom being the last. I also had to decide that it would best to not put his kids into the middle of it all. So while I was never "No Contact" to them, I simply decided it was best to respond when responded to and the boundary was, discussing my brother (their dad).

It brought peace to me, and that is all that mattered. Over the years, and to this day, he remains isolated and has no family in his life. Including his own children.

Now the rub for me. His son, my nephew, is getting married. He has called to discuss my being in his wedding. He wants me to be there. I said this may cause some dire family issues during his very special day as I don't want his dad to have a drama and ruin his wedding. At that point he said, I am not asking my dad to my wedding, so that won't be an issue.

*sigh*.....Now if I go, the nephew will get a bucket full from his dad. If I don't go, I won't be the cause of anything that he and his dad resolve over this on their terms. But not inviting his dad, to his own wedding, won't end well I'm afraid.