seasaw

me and my extremely loving and supportive partner recently moved in together. our stuff is kind of all over the small city apartment, and we've spent the last week shuffling it all together, getting rid of duplicate cuisenarts, downsizing our wardrobes so they will both fit in the closet, and so on.

he works full-time and i am home most of the time, so i have been doing a lot of the 'nesting'. but here it is saturday, and he happened to wake up a couple hours before me with a ton of energy so he is getting a lot done; as i write this he is rearranging furniture, hauling things downstairs, deep cleaning the kitchen.

and i'm still getting through my morning coffee and i can't stop feeling this tense, rigid, uncomfortable feeling - 'is he wishing i would get up and help? is he doing all this tidying and cleaning as a way of saying he wishes i had been doing all these things? should i be helping right now? should i burst into action? is he raging in his head right now? he sounds cheerful enough but is her really? is this the start of the build up of resentment? i haven't done the dishes from the amazing dinner he made last night yet, and now i can't because he's cleaning the kitchen... will he tell me if it bothers him? should i say something? will he think i'm needy if i say something?' UGH.

i DID say 'i feel weird that you're doing so much work and i'm just sitting here drinking my coffee.' and he smiled and said 'i'm sorry you feel weird. we're doing normal things. not everything has to have an emotional charge to it.'

he feels like cleaning right now. i don't. and that's ok. RIGHT? i know that i have done my 'share'. i know that he's not the sort to keep score. but what if i'm not doing my share??? what if i'm being lazy. i hardly got anything done yesterday...

i can just so connect this to feelings of 'i'm not doing enough'. AND i can connect it to 'i don't want to be my [messy, lazy, let someone else clean up after me, i can leave it for a day which turns into a week] mother' fears.

seasaw

ps - it is an indescribable feeling to be able to ask SR these questions, to have a place to write these thoughts out and know they'll be read by people who understand, instead of keep them completely to myself. thank you.

Lovenjoy

this is really nice! relax sweetie, yes it's ok that you were both doing what you each wanted to... (maybe a little codie to analyze it!)

p.s. i liked reading your thoughts on this cause i sometimes do this run around in my head when i'm cleaning wondering if other family members think i'm resentful they're not helping and i'm trying to insult them or something. when it's just me cleaning cause i like to! so i do get it but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar!!!

seasaw

and then cry a little, show him my post here, explain (ramblingly and not effectively) what this board means by the word 'codie', why i was crying... holy toledo. i swear i'm good in an actual crisis.

he thanked me for showing him, said he likes to just get things done in bursts sometimes, gets in 'the zone', that he's just doing things the way he normally does them, that he doesn't want me to feel guilt when he gets those bursts of energy. (also that he'd be happy to help me research ways to erase all memories and traces of my mother from my brain. )

i'm going to use that 'cigar' line as a mantra, i think.

Carlotta

OMG your post really struck home with me.
I am an ACOA myself and my codependent mother would be going crazy especially on Saturday mornings cleaning, working and moaning that she was "the slave", "Cinderella" etc. I swear that every time that woman lifted a finger, it became a mass production and an opportunity for major guilt tripping.
If my mom was up to cleaning, there was a serious price for not joining in. To this day as an adult, if I see someone doing house work around me I get that queasy anxious feeling that I should be doing something and I generally join in.
I am single right now but when I was in relationship I just could not stand the idea of my partner working while I sat there and relaxed...almost gave me anxiety attacks.
Yes it is ok not to feel guilty and yes normal people will just be doing their things...but we were not raised normal.

Kialua

That was well thought out. And yes it sounds very familiar. Always expecting the other shoe to drop. My alcoholic dad would be fine one moment then explode the next and of course blame me, a little kid hiding in her room, and beat me. No wonder my heart pounds when I hear someone in another room down the hall working away. Even worse if they drop something and get mad. My nervous system is expecting them to come find me and take it out on me, never mind that it hasn't happened in decades, my body still reacts until I tell it to calm down.

NWGRITS

I don't know where I inherited the obsessive picking up and expecting everyone to do their chores quickly and efficiently gene, but I'm working on NOT being that mom who explodes when kids don't clear their spots after meals. We had a housekeeper when I was young and my mother has never been a cleaner. My grandmother did everything for me when mom couldn't afford the housekeeper anymore (well she could, but it cut into her drinking money). I've had a raging Crohn's Disease flare the last two weeks and haven't done squat around the house. It's driving me absolutely insane.

ajarlson

Enjoy having a loving and "normal" partner! My partner and I moved in together last year and he's so patient with all my anxieties, and it has made such a difference in my whole outlook on life. We both do our things with no judgement or resentment and it's such a relaxed atmosphere - the drama free zone LOL. One reason I went NC with my mom is that I finally started to realize that a drama free life was possible (or almost, I suppose there's always a little drama) and she was the last piece that was preventing me from that peaceful life I had always wanted.

DoubleDragons

I relate to this post, so much, Seasaw! In fact, sometimes if my husband is in one of those modes and I am not, I first feel guilty and then a little resentful because I really want to just relax yet I feel "guilty" doing it. However, I have to own my feelings. He isn't making feel guilty. My guilt is either irrational from living with my childhood drama, or fair, if I know that in my heart that I haven't been doing my fair share around the house. I think in any good relationship, communication is key. When we were kids, healthy communication was non-existent. It was constant guessing, and analyzing the adults' moods and needs and feeling required to fulfill those needs without a clear idea what the hell the needs of the adult were (how sick is that?!?) I read recently that to communicate well, say in your situation, you could say, "Lover, when you start a frenzied clean-up in our apartment, I feel guilty. I feel like you want me to pitch in and help or that you think I am not doing enough of my fair share of cleaning. Tell me where I am wrong.". The last sentence is key. It really helps clear up any confusion on either end.

Thanks so much for sharing! It is amazing how much we ACOAS are alike in so many ways. I like to think that my whole problem is dealing with my dysfunctional FOO, but I forget that a lot of my daily actions with other people are still affected by my background.

seasaw

kfjghlsdhgliusrhgslkjdfn I am bursting with amazement and gratitude for finding a group of people who actually relate to the way that I think about things sometimes. Your responses are all helpful.

yesterday we got into it a little because i responded to something he said with emotional reactivity instead of waiting to sort through my thoughts and feelings... we're both pretty sensitive so it took a whole day to mend it out. i would love to find a book about how to navigate being an ACOA and in a relationship? i know i need to simply focus on myself and understanding things. i just ordered four books on amazon and started re-reading a book i already had.

i think one boomerang effect of being in this kind of 'recovery' AND in a relationship, for me, is that i'm so deeply in discovery mode (you mean there's a REASON i think and act this way? i didn't even realize i DO this, or that - i totally DO do that) - any time something comes up with me and mr. seasaw, i want to derail the whole conversation into an explanation of why i do certain things and how i am working on them. and he has seriously heard ENOUGH about my mother.

makomago

With your post I much identify!

I would identify myself as both ACA and CoDA - the BRB states the terms are interchangeable and I see them very much in that way.

If my partner is doing a 'chore' or even fulfilling an obligation and I'm not, I feel guilty, regardless of whether I've done my share. It gets even worse for me if she is doing a chore that she clearly doesn't want to do.

Here is an example of 'clearly' doesn't want to; chores are done loudly, with much bashing and crashing, they're done at a frenetic pace. BTW She confesses that my observation is correct. She acts like a surly teenager (sometimes)!!

Note: I know that's (surly teenager comment above) is a bit rich coming from me, I'm not taking her inventory, it's a description not an indictment :-)

Anyway, the one that isn't correct and the thing that is SO VERY DANAGEROUS for me, a real indicator of my codie/aca type flawed thinking, is this....

It's when I start thinking, or fearing what my partner is thinking. Because sometimes I can cross a line when I start to know what she is thinking - that's insanity on my part. I can do this a lot my ego boundaries have collapsed at that point and I can no longer differentiate between my feelings and theirs i.e. I take them on and DON'T own my own.

Thanks...

Mracoa

Oh the scars we carry.

When you don't feel like doing housework and your partner does, you have a few choices:

- suck it up and help. Be moody and pissy, but do your part.
- suck it up and help, be appreciative and supportive of their effort.
- let them do their thing, be moody and pissy about how you feel guilty.
- let them do their thing, be appreciative and supportive of their effort.

Attitude is everything. Yes, sometimes people try to push our buttons and get under our skin. But most of the time they just want to get some work done.

makomago

Thank you for sharing the choices you have, is that what choices you exercise?

I love the appreciative and support their effort option, I say this in good spirited humor, but picture the scene...

Grumpy partner doing chores she doesn't want to do, bashing and crashing (as per my example earlier) and I execise YOUR (not my) option 4.

... Yay, you go girl, I love that vacuuming, keep it up, I appreciate your effort. That's it get right in those corners (whilst I sit here being appreciative and supporting) your effort.

I'm not sure that would work very well for a harmonious relationship, I don't think the bashing and crashing would diminish as a result.

OK... I'm taking that a bit far, I know. But in fun, that's all :-)

Almost no relationship is one sided as far as I can tell. Both parties have a responsibility to own their part> This as I see it (which admittedly is not very reliable) is to negotiate like adults. If one party (in my relationship) wants something the other doesn't then a quick piece of negotiation is necessary. The choices are known and an accord can be reached only by each expressing what is 'actually' happening for them. Otherwise it is codie guess work and mind reading... at least from my perspective.

e.g. Hey, I don't want to do all the chores on my own. Can you help please.

Start negotiation

Or, Hey, I'm sitting here doing nothing, I don't want to do the chores, do you want my help.

Start negotiation

And I'm not talking about a business meeting, these things can be as simple as Yes, please. Or No, you're fine.

If both, or one of either me or my partner does not express their particular want or need, then I as a codie start guessing and mind reading and then sometimes resenting what I think she thinks. That is nuts on my part. This is not about the chores, this is about the communication, the feelings, the relationship and it's smooth running. What this all says to me is BOUNDARIES.

thanks...


I may not meet that responsibility very well (yet) BTW, but that is why I am doing a program and working/talking on the issues that affect me.

OGK

"If both, or one of either me or my partner does not express their particular want or need, then I as a codie start guessing and mind reading and then sometimes resenting what I think she thinks."

Brick.....head.....ouch! Welcome to my spin cycle my friend. Great share, I relate, 100% for all things in life! not just my partner in it. I call this..."deception by perception". Bad things happen when....I "guess".

Thanks for this, a gentle reminder always helps to keep me on task.
OGK

seasaw

Is this an ACOA thing? I do this ALL THE TIME. I drive myself CRAZY with it.

For example... I can't play my own music when I'm in the car with most people, even friends - even mr. seasaw. I get SO self-conscious of my choice in music and what they are thinking about it that I get flushed, my heart rate goes up - a few times I've started to get migraine symptoms (the sweats, blurred vision, anxiety) and had to pull of the highway and take an anti-anxiety medicine to calm myself down, which of course made me extra self-conscious. It's horrible.

sisterbear

Yes, or you could call it codependent as well. When you were little you had to figure out what your parent was thinking and feeling so that you could give them what they needed and minimize the hurt on yourself. It's why we are anxious, hyper vigilant, and always attuned to what others are feeling.

OGK

"When you were little you had to figure out what your parent was thinking and feeling so that you could give them what they needed and minimize the hurt on yourself. It's why we are anxious, hyper vigilant, and always attuned to what others are feeling."

What was the process you took to figure this out? And if I may, what did it feel like to apply it to your life moving fwd? This makes 100% as it relates to me moving past my causes and conditions. Great share.
OGK

tromboneliness

I had this little incident today, where my wife borrowed my car to go get some groceries. When she got back, she skidded the car into a snowbank in the street behind our house. She came in, and seemed almost terrified to tell me about it, because in her FoO, there would have been H3ll to pay. I just grabbed the keys, said no, don't come out with me, I'll take care of it, and spent a few minutes shoveling until I could get the car out, and parked it in the garage (down the street, where I rent an extra garage space). She still -- after 20 years we've been together -- doesn't get the fact that I'm Not. Her. Father. I don't hit the ceiling over every little thing! It's not a crisis when you get the car stuck in the snow, and you're not an idiot for doing it! (I mean, sure, I was a little annoyed, but it's no big deal, and we just do the next right thing and carry on!)

These things take time to get... I was going to say to get over, but maybe we never do get over them, entirely....

T

Kialua

I never could figure it out. My alcoholic father was too unpredictable. I tried my best all the time and knew I had to, and just when I thought I knew how to answer correctly a certain situation it didn't work the next time. One day it worked the next time it didn't. Just being hyper vigilant was the only thing I could do. It did help me later in life to be able to read "normal" people to a certain extent, but even with that I would go over the top into motives and reasons I didn't need to.

irisgardens

Wonderful share. Needed to be reminded that I am always 'reacting' even when I am doing better...it is kind of a slippery slope of what came so naturally but no longer works.