heartcore

I was originally posting this as a response in Myrrah's thread about having emotional outbursts, and realized that it was a "big deal" for me and that I should likely open up and start an independent thread on it so that I can get feedback and support:

I'm with you, sister. I'm in my 5th month, and just had an "emotional outburst" last night which left me feeling "hungover" and ashamed this morning.

Sorry, I don't want to be discouraging, but I don't think it has to do with one month or five or a couple of years of sobriety. Frankly, I'm not even very hopeful that there will come a day in which I wake up with my "brain healed" from the ravages of drugs and alcohol. For me, what it comes down to, is that I carry a tremendous amount of hurt and damage - from my childhood on up to now... I've done therapy and many many years of recovery work and my steps and lots of deep conversations with girlfriends and journaling and prayer and blah-de-blah-blah. I understand my emotions a lot better as a result. Yet I still have self-esteem issues, and feel discouraged, and angry that after all that work I still feel so discouraged.

Most of the time, I'm okay in recovery. Right now, I have my adult daughter staying with me, and yesterday she commented that my life was incredibly boring - just work and recovery and the puppy (ok, she approves of the puppy). She's right. I'm usually content inside that, the quiet rhythm of my life, but with an outside set of eyes seeing it for its smallness I wanted nothing more than to open it wide with a bottle of wine. A moment of joyful sharing...

I read the Tolstoy article on another thread this morning, his observation that drinking silences the conscience. I agree with this, and also recognize that it silences discontent - whether with one's life, or relationship, or self.

I believe that the trick to lifetime or longterm abstinence is "building a life so grand that you don't want to drink over it..."

But no matter how many yoga classes or frolics with the puppy I include, I am still deeply lonely, and so it just ain't grand. As much as I enjoy the social aspects of AA meetings, none of those folks are people who's "lives I would want." There is no one in any of my meetings that I would want to become a close friend with (although I value them as acquaintances and sobriety peers).

Part of this is that folks in my meetings tend to be very low-bottom alcoholics, so I have very little in common with their stories. I live in a rural area (but am not from/of here - came here to work), and so most of these folks do not share any of my interests. The shares in meetings tend to be testimonies to how AA saved them from the dark waking-up-in-their-own-sh** alcoholism (very tent revival). It isn't a specific meeting (to avoid the advice to seek a more appropriate meeting); there are very few meetings here, and I've found this to be the case at all of them.

I took my daughter to a few of my meetings, and she made that same comment. I had been thinking it, but hadn't said it aloud or admitted it to myself. "They're losers, mom. Why would you surround yourself with people like this?" she asked. And suddenly, I don't want to go back and I want to drink wine and I just want my old life back.

So, all my enthusiasm is shattered.

I'm not going to drink. I woke up this morning, "suited up and showing up." Interestingly, my emotional outburst last night was with my daughter, because in her comments on everything in my life, it has "ruined everything" - which wasn't a nice thing for me to say or lay on her. But - she's right. And that's what hurt so much. Everything that I was proud of having built in sobriety, she trashed. Like an intervention on my sobriety.

And she's right. This is not me. And that is a devastating thing to have heard spoken. "Life is short, mom," she told me, "you're wasting it..."

Yikes! I feel like I got hit in the head with a brick...

FreeOwl

I get this. All of it.

What I've been coming to believe is that you're dead right. This stuff will always be with us. And through our lives, more hurt will come.

Because we are human. And part of being human is being hurt.

Sometimes we will feel far more upbeat and happy. Sometimes, we will crash down and feel pretty damn despairing.

For me, coming to accept this.... to be compassionate for myself and yet not cling to the sadness and let it run wild - has been really enlightening.

Enthusiasm shattered? Yeah, I get that too.

The good news is, just like your enthusiasm - the 'shattered' will pass. It always does. We can be grateful for the glumness because it means we're alive and still FEELING. We can recognize that it's ok not to feel ok.

LBrain

that's a tough one heartcore...

Soberpotamus

I'm pained by your post Heartcore. I can very much relate.

Although, I want to say: No one can trash your recovery and your life, not even your daughter!

Life is short, and I too struggle with examining the quality of my new sober life. I'm extremely dissatisfied on so many levels. But life is in the living. We are constantly shifting and carving it out, right?

No one is allowed to waltz in and take that away. Judgements don't have to be embraced and taken to heart to the point of irreparable damage.

If I were you, I'd just take this pronouncement from her in stride... it is ok to have a simple life. Simple doesn't always mean boring.

Oh, I could say so much more but I won't Just know I am in a similar place and I feel for you.

mistory5

First thing that came to my mind after reading this twice was: how about adding some activities that aren't built on drinking with non recovery groups? Have u ever looked into meetup.com or maybe something that has to do with volunteering. It helps me to envolve myself in some things that don't have to do with recovery. Imo I think this is part of shaking the hold of alcoholism for me. Did u feel this way about your AA peers b4 your daughter brought it to your attention. Is your AV messing with your head to try to send u back to what it really wants: a drink?

heartcore

Jennie -

Thanks for the "no one is allowed to waltz in and take that away..." If you knew my daughter, you'd know that every such pronouncement is preceded by a "waltzing in" to the room. She is in that early-20s "I know all and am by far the coolest person here" place.

The funny thing is that she came here to take some time out of her "very exciting and glamorous life" to get sober.

And I'm sure that AA meetings in LA would have been more her style; I live in very rural Alaska, so the guys at my meetings are literally wearing suspenders and flannel shirts and rubber boots and have long dingy white beards and spit chewing tobacco into styrofoam cups as they share...

I have a soft affection for all of them, because they have been kind to me, but - really - it is more an anthropological experience than one in which I will be understood or would aspire to grow into their lives.

I believe that sobriety wisdom and hope cuts across all social and educational lines, but when she said that I thought "am I really HIDING here in sobriety?" Hiding from all the artsy, ambitious expectations of every other part of the world? Hiding from the people who talk politics at dinner parties? Just safely tucked into a dirty little room with old mountain men who think I'm doing just fine even though I'm not doing anything at all?

Simple and Zen, chopping wood and carrying water - choice or default? intention or retreat? me or pretend? joy or fear?

Verte

Youth serves a purpose. It propels us to do things that with some thought we otherwise would not. It is beautiful and treacherous.

Hold your head high, Heartcore. Daughters' words can hurt tremendously can't they? I know because I am a daughter and I have hurt my mother very much in order that we not remain blind to each other in this lifetime.

Reclaim your enthusiasm. Nothing has changed. Feel good about your life and hold your head high, as before her words. Suggest that instead of passing judgement upon your life choices and circumstances that she tell you about her own? A constructive conversation that brings you closer to understanding each other while respecting the fact that you are separate beings living in close proximity. And wish to remain this way. Life has a way of humbling us all, your daughter included, if we are fortunate. Tell your daughter that you love her are proud of her and pray that she suffer just enough in this lifetime, but not too much.

Was it Arnold that said "I'm not a Loo-sah" or was that "It's not a too-mah"?

Soberpotamus

Is it healing for you? Or is it stifling?

In my twenties, I moved to two large cities. One very large city. I craved the bustle, the noise, the lights, and busyness of it. Because, inside, I'm quite solitary.

Most of my life, I've realized I either need to live in the heart of a city, or in the middle of nowhere Alaska sounds really amazing. But I can definitely understand if you are getting stir crazy.

Are you hiding? Well, I hide. I'll admit it. But that's just me. I alternately push myself hard, and then I retreat. In my twenties, I pushed hard. I paid the consequences. I'm in my late thirties now, and I'm resting.

I think it's perfectly ok to want to sit still at some point. And just be. Maybe you are doing that? Catching your breath maybe?

Aellyce

I relate to some of this, heartcore, and emotional states like this definitely come and go for me in recovery. In my case, it's not so much about feeling lonely, but more about not being sure where I want to take my life next... sometimes I really feel overwhelmed with too many things in my head, too many possibilities, and just not forming a truly useful "whole".

I'm soon coming up on a year of sobriety, and the dynamic of how I've been experiencing these doubts and questions throughout the course of my recovery have been interesting... lots of changes. Each time I get into this kind of "state", it's different a bit. And I would say, it does get easier to cope with it; the little local "crises" also get lighter with time, or perhaps I'm just getting used to experiencing these things sober, after many years of drinking.

One thing that works for me well, and this is also what my therapist recommends to me all the time, is trying to not take my doubtful thoughts and feelings super seriously. I feel that you and I (well, a bunch of us on SR for sure) may be a little similar in that we like to dive into all sorts of stuff deeply, both intellectually and emotionally. It's is a trait that is definitely a double-edged sword, as you may know well, and creates a lot of extra dimensions to these existential moments.

So speaking more practically: do you like to travel? Do you have the opportunity? If yes, I would really recommend it. It can take the mind off ourselves when we sometimes get stuck in our fixations, and provides chances to experience new things. I can totally imagine that for you, living in that sort of environment sober, is frustrating at times. I've been in that kind of situation -- that's when my drinking escalated and became a serious problem. I now live in a great place with plenty of opportunities to meet interesting people, but I still tend to fall back into "hermit mode" at times. So I'm trying to set up again more frequent travels because that can really pull me out of my head, probably better than anything else. This is all I can come up with at the moment... as I said, I'm also going through lots of dilemmas, doubts, fears, etc regarding the future. They don't make me doubt my sobriety at all, they are more classic existential angst, something I've been prone to in my whole life and now I feel it intensely again in sobriety.

Also, I suggest that you don't listen to your daughter in this. I know it may be hard (well, I don't know since I'm not a parent), but she really may not be the best source of advice if she reacts this way.

Hugs to ((you))

DoubleDragons

I really appreciate this post, Heartcore. I relate to it very much. I am 15 months sober, but I spent most of my adult life (27 years) as a drinker. Ironically, though, part of my motivation to quit drinking alcohol was realizing how small my life had become, revolving around the drink. We would be at a ballgame and my husband would make sure that I had several of those little plastic prefilled goblets of wine so I would be happy, same thing at the beach, same thing on vacation. Everyone else in my family enjoyed these activities without getting stupid, but I felt like a bystander watching everyone else live their lives while I sat by watching and getting drunk.

There are times in my sobriety where I just get too wrapped up in it, almost like drinking. This is one of those times. My Christmas with my extended family sucked, so all of those childhood issues came rolling back (just like you, I have had therapy as well, but the issues don't just disappear). So, I spend too much time obsessing and reading on SR, books on alcoholism, etc. Then I start feeling sorry for myself, my life looks just like a big chore and boring, etc. etc. It is these times that the AV loves to creep into my life. So, I shake things up. I say, DD, you don't get to drink, but what else would make you happy? I give to myself alone time; I make plans to look forward to like seeing a movie or having lunch out with a friend; I rent chick flicks that I want to watch, even though my household is predominantly male; I do things like pick at flea markets, or read for pleasure; I order small treats for myself to look forward to getting in the mail, etc. ~ things that make ME happy. I force myself to do gratitude lists at this time to get out of my funk. The clouds always do pass.

I do think we alcoholic types (especially those of us with FOO issues) have huge codependency tendencies. Sometimes we surround ourselves with needy, hurting people because that is what feels comfortable to us. I used to call myself "freak magnet." I think it is important to have a mix of people in our life, those that we can help, but also those we can look up to and receive help from. I, too, am looking to add more healthy people in my life who I can learn from. I think it is a good goal to have and I think I am getting better at recognizing "healthy."

Heartcore, I think growing is a painful process. But when we look back at where we have been, we realize how good sobriety has been to us in many ways. Our lives are always going to need a little tweaking. That is the nature of life. Hugs and thank you for your honesty!!!

fhl41

I am sorry to hear this heartcore.

I have projected that sort of thing onto my mom (especially in my younger years) only because deep down I was terrified of becoming like her. As I have wised up I have realized what is so wrong with that, she is an amazing, strong, and very wise woman.

She quit drinking when she was about 44....and here I am quitting at 44. I just realized this...bazaar.

Inchworm

Just because your life is "small" does not mean it is undesirable to the extent that you're throwing it away. I have read a lot of your posts, Heart, and I don't come away with that judgment at all. Your daughter is just a child, Heart, who does not yet realize what it means to just be present. What do YOU want?

mecanix

Waisting your time ??? hmm that sure was my drinking years … a slow long crash and burn ..

It was a high and it was a rush ,,,,, such living comes with crashes of epic proportions and whatever the opposite of a rush is .. i guess those days sat in behind drawn curtains with a banging head ?

For me the thing which i now do is to "be the change you want in your life" ..
I don't go night clubing anymore … but now i do go to 5* hotels and stay the weekend and have a nice meal in a restaurant …
Such things are pleasant and glorious … not really exciting .. if you want exciting i suppose jumping out of aeroplanes in parachutes, roller coaster rides and white water rafting might appeal ? a sports car ?

Only thing is ... much like alcohol... such things are temporary and as a human i find myself wanting the pleasure and excitement without one moment of dullness or pain , which aint ever going to happen is it ?

I cannot have it all , i cannot do it all , but i am mostly content and not drinking anymore has been such a relief … I might book a holiday to blue lagoon in Iceland in a moment with all the not drinking money i've saved ..

I dunno , now that you've found sobriety what are you going to do with it ?

Good luck , m

coming_clean

The views of your daughter are exactly the views that got me into doing drugs / getting / wasted / messing up, back in the days when I was a teenager. I was a dog chasing a non-existing bone. Some vague promise made by television and popculture and consumentism that my life was supposed to be awesome all the time.

Isn't life supposed to boring? Doesn't every man and woman fail?
The only way for me to keep sober and content is to keep my life small. Small equals realism to me.

Frolicing with your puppy, mainting a steady job, taking care of your family and bills and stuff sounds like enlightenment to me

doggonecarl

If you don't mind, heartcore, could you define this "grand" life for me in the context of how that will keep you sober?

mns1

hearcore,

I read your post a couple of times and it almost sounds like you are beginning to believe that alcohol is the only thing that can fill the void you are feeling in your life right now. And maybe what your daughter is saying is reinforcing that belief. Don't let yourself think like that.

Alcohol does not silence anything in merely deafens you to the truth. Sobriety isn't hiding, drinking is hiding. You can drink all you want but the TRUTH is that you are going to wake up the next morning and life is going to be right there staring you in the face, only you'll have a nasty headache to top it off.

It also sounds like you are accepting that your future is defined by your past. This doesn't have to be the case. I know this sounds sentimental and cliche, but if you feel like there is something missing in your life, go find it. Think about all the things you enjoy doing, find ways to increase them in your life, and leave alcohol out of it. But don't let yourself fall into the trap of letting your past and your drinking define how you live your life.

And you could always just tell your daughter that comments like that are hurtful and that you really need her support.

Good luck. Don't just settle for what is. I hope you find what you are looking for in sobriety.

Soberwolf

Hi Heartcore the important thing is you know why your doing this dont have your enthuaism shattered why not explain why mum cant drink and how this is isnt a waste of time i think awareness to why you cant drink is needed here and im sure daughter wouldnt say waste of time again if you explained

Do not be discouraged your awesome

Your not wasting your time you are sober sending hugs

Aellyce

I believe in a form of this as well. But instead of it being "grand", I typically think/say "meaningful"... for me myself. And what's meaningful for me may or may not mean anything to another person. This is why it's most often said that a sense of happiness and fulfillment should come from within, because nothing else is sustainable really.

The way all these feelings relate to early recovery, in my view, is that during our drinking, most of us experience a profound disconnection with our internal values, inspirations, motivations ("hearcore" ). Some of us have never even truly explored/established anything like that. So, after years of drinking anesthesia, we tend to stand there "naked" in front of the world, newly exposed and sensitive like a furry animal without the fur... and then everything touches and affects us. Including things that are not necessarily useful influences. We don't have the appropriate filters set up yet, so comments that probably would not hurt many other people, will make us question the whole universe... it's a very tough thing to deal with, I believe, for all of us, whether it's expressed or we swallow it and suffer in silence.

I think that a good life should be "good" and meaningful for its owner primarily, and that is you. It's often hard to find and set up the appropriate boundaries with others, especially loved ones... but I believe it's necessary for the sake of everyone's well-being, even if they are our children. As I said before, I'm not a parent, so it's not easy to imagine the emotional part of it... but what makes sense to me is that if we stand up to your own choices and pursue goals with determination and passion, other people will suddenly think differently of us as well. Relatives included. It's always easy to criticize vulnerable people especially with clear issues, and those that have their own unresolved insecurities tend to target that way automatically. It's not about you, my friend. Don't let it get in the way of defining (finding, creating, etc) your own values and life of choice

Eshgham

Your posts are always awesome.

If you haven't, you might enjoy reading Sartre's philosophy regarding the gaze/other. What he writes about concerns the experience you're describing.

tomsteve

I caught that,too.
Funny thing is:
Here I am, sober peaceful, serene, and content with my life. What do I do for fun?
Take my dog out for a walk in the woods( not just down the paths, but shoot off the paths and IN the woods. And sometimes the more Im around people the more I like my dog!)
Go out in my shop and make dust(sawdust. Woodworkings a passion of mine)
go to meetings
Help others
Read
Spend time with family( my nieces 15 month old son is my best lil buddy and we have a riot!! Legos are fun!!!)
And my life is grand....TO ME AND FOR ME.
Plus being a wee bit of an introvert...all that chaotic stuff isn't for me. Wears me out.
Some people think my life is boring and glum. No fun. I've been told I need to get out and blahblahblah.
Good for them! Me? I'm happy with who I am and what I do.
And refuse to let others opinions of my life direct my life. If I feel there's something amiss in my life, THAT'S when I do something about it.