The Ted Bundy Analogy....
Getting there!!
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Join Date: Mar 2012
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The Ted Bundy Analogy....
This analogy, while an extreme, really helped me reach acceptance.
Ted Bundy was a handsome, charismatic, intelligent man with a very evil, dark side. Some may been even call it an addiction. He was a sociopath. The how's and whys of he became one are simply to complex for my understanding. Bottom line, he just was.
My husband was a handsome, charismatic, intelligent man too with a very dark, evil side. His addiction enabled him to have no empathy and no conscience. He destroyed so much and still has not accepted that fact. He doesn't need to, I know my own truth. I no longer need his validation of the pain he caused.
While I am not comparing the evilness of a serial murderer to an addict. I am comparing the similarities and acceptance of it all.
Jon, the founder of SR and an addict wrote this....
My name's Jon. I'm an addict. And this is what addicts do. You cannot nor will not change my behavior. You cannot make me treat you better, let alone with any respect. All I care about, all I think about, is my needs and how to go about fufilling them. You are a tool to me, something to use. When I say I love you I am lying through my teeth, because love is impossible for someone in active addiction. I wouldn't be using if I loved myself, and since I don't, I cannot love you.
My feelings are so pushed down and numbed by my drugs that I could be considered sociopathic. I have no empathy for you or anyone else. It doesn't faze me that I hurt you, leave you hungry, lie to you, cheat on you and steal from you.
My behavior cannot and will not change until i make a decison to stop using/drinking and then follow it up with a plan of action.
And until I make that decsion, I will hurt you again and again and again.
Stop being surprised.
I am an addict. And that's what addicts do.
__________________
I will never understand how or why. I really don't care if addiction is a disease, choice, or medical issue anymore. Quite frankly, I am tired of asking, discussing, debating, and researching the subject.
My husband no longer cared how much he hurt me, if he "murdered" our family, or destroyed a once happy live. He was unable to care! Period!!
Although he had many positives attributes (we all do, including a man like Ted Bundy) his one big dark side - was enough to finally end it. It just is what it is.
Time to rebuild, move on, and learn the lessons I needed to.
ETA. I am not trying offend any addict. I simply using an example to help those who are still struggling to find acceptance.
Ted Bundy was a handsome, charismatic, intelligent man with a very evil, dark side. Some may been even call it an addiction. He was a sociopath. The how's and whys of he became one are simply to complex for my understanding. Bottom line, he just was.
My husband was a handsome, charismatic, intelligent man too with a very dark, evil side. His addiction enabled him to have no empathy and no conscience. He destroyed so much and still has not accepted that fact. He doesn't need to, I know my own truth. I no longer need his validation of the pain he caused.
While I am not comparing the evilness of a serial murderer to an addict. I am comparing the similarities and acceptance of it all.
Jon, the founder of SR and an addict wrote this....
My name's Jon. I'm an addict. And this is what addicts do. You cannot nor will not change my behavior. You cannot make me treat you better, let alone with any respect. All I care about, all I think about, is my needs and how to go about fufilling them. You are a tool to me, something to use. When I say I love you I am lying through my teeth, because love is impossible for someone in active addiction. I wouldn't be using if I loved myself, and since I don't, I cannot love you.
My feelings are so pushed down and numbed by my drugs that I could be considered sociopathic. I have no empathy for you or anyone else. It doesn't faze me that I hurt you, leave you hungry, lie to you, cheat on you and steal from you.
My behavior cannot and will not change until i make a decison to stop using/drinking and then follow it up with a plan of action.
And until I make that decsion, I will hurt you again and again and again.
Stop being surprised.
I am an addict. And that's what addicts do.
__________________
I will never understand how or why. I really don't care if addiction is a disease, choice, or medical issue anymore. Quite frankly, I am tired of asking, discussing, debating, and researching the subject.
My husband no longer cared how much he hurt me, if he "murdered" our family, or destroyed a once happy live. He was unable to care! Period!!
Although he had many positives attributes (we all do, including a man like Ted Bundy) his one big dark side - was enough to finally end it. It just is what it is.
Time to rebuild, move on, and learn the lessons I needed to.
ETA. I am not trying offend any addict. I simply using an example to help those who are still struggling to find acceptance.
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Bill Wilson describes alcoholics: self-centered in the extreme, selfish, grandiose, enormous ego with low self esteem with enormous self-will. "His majesty the child". The few alcoholics who do get sober and get into recovery do change, but it takes years and a lot of hard work.
Bill Wilson describes the person I used to be (got sober in 1991) but your description of Ted Bundy doesn't. Alcoholism is a slow progressive disease and no one stays charismatic and intelligent for very long.
Bill Wilson describes the person I used to be (got sober in 1991) but your description of Ted Bundy doesn't. Alcoholism is a slow progressive disease and no one stays charismatic and intelligent for very long.
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 413
Yes, I understand what you're getting at, Lovemenow, but I agree with the op, for me, the Ted Bundy example doesn't quite sum up our situations.
We codies tend to wear rose-colored glasses, idealize others, and be in denial about what is in front of our noses. There is a dysfunctional dance in an addict / codependent relationship, and we codies are just as much a part of that dance as the addict is. I couldn't control and am not resonsible for the horrible things my addict partner did, but I could have been more perceptive and backed out long before I did. The fact that I chose to believe what I wanted to hear and the time I wasted because of that is on me -- not my ex. Especially since his actions were telling me the truth.
In fact, I bet someone could write a pretty good "I'm Jane, I'm a codependent, and this is what I do...." story. The lying, stealing and leaving you cold might have to change to something to do with controlling, but the rest of it would be a match.
We codies tend to wear rose-colored glasses, idealize others, and be in denial about what is in front of our noses. There is a dysfunctional dance in an addict / codependent relationship, and we codies are just as much a part of that dance as the addict is. I couldn't control and am not resonsible for the horrible things my addict partner did, but I could have been more perceptive and backed out long before I did. The fact that I chose to believe what I wanted to hear and the time I wasted because of that is on me -- not my ex. Especially since his actions were telling me the truth.
In fact, I bet someone could write a pretty good "I'm Jane, I'm a codependent, and this is what I do...." story. The lying, stealing and leaving you cold might have to change to something to do with controlling, but the rest of it would be a match.
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Mmm, yeah, I wouldn't equate alcoholics/addicts with sociopaths. Most alcoholics/addicts do have a conscience in there somewhere, they just bury their feelings under their DoC and push any guilt to the side so they can go on drinking/using.
Addicts and alcoholics can get well, too. They remain alcoholics/addicts but they recover and are capable of developing real feelings again. Sociopaths are sociopaths for life, to the best of my knowledge, and there's no treatment to make them have empathy for others.
Addicts and alcoholics can get well, too. They remain alcoholics/addicts but they recover and are capable of developing real feelings again. Sociopaths are sociopaths for life, to the best of my knowledge, and there's no treatment to make them have empathy for others.
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As I said, I am not comparing Ted Bundy to addiction! I am saying....many of us keep asking why, how, when, where. Those questions just don't matter. It just is!
Also, I often said "but clean and sober, my husband is a wonderful man." But at his addiction became bigger then him, his negatives crossed out his positives. Now if he worked a strong recovery, maybe in a year or so....those qualities could come back. But I was not willing to wait around any longer. I did my time of living in hopeful fantasy.
With all that said, I think so many of us blame the substance and refuse to really look at the person. We blame cheating, abuse, both physical and verbal on the drug. I truly believe drug addiction is just but a symptom of a bigger problem...for most!
Also, I often said "but clean and sober, my husband is a wonderful man." But at his addiction became bigger then him, his negatives crossed out his positives. Now if he worked a strong recovery, maybe in a year or so....those qualities could come back. But I was not willing to wait around any longer. I did my time of living in hopeful fantasy.
With all that said, I think so many of us blame the substance and refuse to really look at the person. We blame cheating, abuse, both physical and verbal on the drug. I truly believe drug addiction is just but a symptom of a bigger problem...for most!
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Originally Posted by LexieCat 
Yeah, I get your point now. Either way, there's nothing WE can do to change who/what someone is. That's an inside job for them.
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Originally Posted by BadCompany
Ted Bundy? Really?
I think I did a poor job of explaining.
Let's use - the man who comes home drunk, terrorizes his family all night long, physically and emotionally abuses them.
Does it really matter if he is an alcoholic or not? Does it matter that he can be wonderful when he is sober? Is alcohol really to blame or that he had a bad childhood, his boss is a SOB?
Or the man who comes home drunk and rapes his wife? Does being an alcoholic excuse this behavior or is alcohol a system of something much darker.
The wife that cheats on her husband and neglects her children. The list could go on.
Codies love to make excuses, blame everything and everyone and deny the truth. Most of us say....but he can be so wonderful. Well yeah, even Ted Bundy projected some positive images....working on a suicide hotline, campaigning, had a fiancé. But deep down, he was just evil. Drunk or sober, he was just evil.
Many of us been with some very sick people, who projected some projected some positive qualities. But addict or not, they were simply very sick and not nice people. Addiction can be used an excuse for many of us struggling to come to terms with our realities.
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I totally get what you are saying. I really think addiction does follow a lot of the sociopath traits. I have been thinking that for a long time now. When you Google sociopath, it is almost the same thing as "I am an addict". I think the difference being the fact that MOST addicts do have a conscience somewhere buried under the BS whereas a sociopath is a sociopath.
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Originally Posted by LoveMeNow
As I said, I am not comparing Ted Bundy to addiction! I am saying....many of us keep asking why, how, when, where. Those questions just don't matter. It just is!
Not the comparison, but the responses. All by A's, if I tracked correctly? First thing is always "me?" You talking about me? The AAAAA thing we joke about. It really is NOT. If the shoe does not fit . . . do not wear it. I sort of follow what LMN is talking about. Mental Illness, if I understand correctly? Not saying that all A's have notable Mental Illness, but a LOT of folks with severe Mental Illness(es) have Alcohol and Addiction issues, as well. Even the AA Big Book speaks (very briefly) to that in the opening paragraph of Chapter 5, How It Works. Which is also where the Big Book discusses what it takes to recover -- Honesty.
For folks with severe Mental Illness, or Personalty Disorder type Mental Illness -- Honesty can be a Very Difficult Thing. Chances are, if that were (any of) you, you would not be here trying to work on and improve [y]ourselves.
Also, I often said "but clean and sober, my husband is a wonderful man." But at his addiction became bigger then him, his negatives crossed out his positives. Now if he worked a strong recovery, maybe in a year or so....those qualities could come back. But I was not willing to wait around any longer. I did my time of living in hopeful fantasy.
With all that said, I think so many of us blame the substance and refuse to really look at the person. We blame cheating, abuse, both physical and verbal on the drug. I truly believe drug addiction is just but a symptom of a bigger problem...for most!
With all that said, I think so many of us blame the substance and refuse to really look at the person. We blame cheating, abuse, both physical and verbal on the drug. I truly believe drug addiction is just but a symptom of a bigger problem...for most!
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my take away is the CHARMING thing....I see that soooo many times here....when we met he was so CHARMING.....we broke up but he came back and was so CHARMING.....I meant to say no but he turned on the CHARM.
[Middle English charme, magic spell, from Old French, from Latin carmen, incantation; see kan- in Indo-European roots.]
1. To be alluring or pleasing.
2. To function as an amulet or charm.
3. To use magic spells.
smoke and mirrors. magician tricks. spells. illusion.
to me CHARMING is always a red flag.
[Middle English charme, magic spell, from Old French, from Latin carmen, incantation; see kan- in Indo-European roots.]
1. To be alluring or pleasing.
2. To function as an amulet or charm.
3. To use magic spells.
smoke and mirrors. magician tricks. spells. illusion.
to me CHARMING is always a red flag.
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
my take away is the CHARMING thing....I see that soooo many times here....when we met he was so CHARMING.....we broke up but he came back and was so CHARMING.....I meant to say no but he turned on the CHARM.
[Middle English charme, magic spell, from Old French, from Latin carmen, incantation; see kan- in Indo-European roots.]
1. To be alluring or pleasing.
2. To function as an amulet or charm.
3. To use magic spells.
smoke and mirrors. magician tricks. spells. illusion.
to me CHARMING is always a red flag.
[Middle English charme, magic spell, from Old French, from Latin carmen, incantation; see kan- in Indo-European roots.]
1. To be alluring or pleasing.
2. To function as an amulet or charm.
3. To use magic spells.
smoke and mirrors. magician tricks. spells. illusion.
to me CHARMING is always a red flag.
Oh and guess what?? My STBXAH was very charming! And he was my soulmate!
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A neighbor we had from Germany when I was a kid used to say, "yes, but Hitler built beautiful highways..."
One thing from the AA big book that interests me, is describing alcoholism as a "spiritual problem." I have never known even the most secular AAer to deny this. The book also describes the drinking as a "symptom."
For me, this idea is loaded with theological implications.
One thing from the AA big book that interests me, is describing alcoholism as a "spiritual problem." I have never known even the most secular AAer to deny this. The book also describes the drinking as a "symptom."
For me, this idea is loaded with theological implications.
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Location: South Central USA
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Originally Posted by Eauchiche
A neighbor we had from Germany when I was a kid used to say, "yes, but Hitler built beautiful highways..."
One thing from the AA big book that interests me, is describing alcoholism as a "spiritual problem." I have never known even the most secular AAer to deny this. The book also describes the drinking as a "symptom."
For me, this idea is loaded with theological implications.
One thing from the AA big book that interests me, is describing alcoholism as a "spiritual problem." I have never known even the most secular AAer to deny this. The book also describes the drinking as a "symptom."
For me, this idea is loaded with theological implications.
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Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
With all that said, I think so many of us blame the substance and refuse to really look at the person. We blame cheating, abuse, both physical and verbal on the drug.
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 276
Originally Posted by Katiekate
Most of the people I know in active addiction have many characteristics that mirror characteristics I have read about when researching personality disorders, it's kind of uncanny, I get it Lovemenow, totally.
Agree totally. Our marriage counselor used to say that she couldn't say for sure if it was a mental illness or alcoholism mirroring one. Wanted him to stop drinking then see what he really had.
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