PinkCloudsCharley

So after AH's huge blowup the other night about our joint account and me asking why he withdrew money, he came home and we talked. First thing he said is, i need to quit drinking. Uh, ya, ya think? I've heard this song and dance before tho. This time I need to put some boundaries into place.

I've decided on two boundaries: i will not be around him when he is drinking - without exception, and he will never be in the car with our children when he has been drinking.

So when do i bring this up? Things are quite smooth at the moment, and I don't want to rock the boat. But if i wait until he drinks again, it's too late to enforce them without telling what I'm doing.

PinkCloudsCharley

Also, how do I go about talking about it without seeming like a b**** or a cold-hearted wench?

ladyscribbler

Are those your words or his? There is nothing cold hearted about protecting yourself and your children from abuse and danger.
The thing about boundaries is that they don't have to be something you shout from the rooftops. In order to work, they must be enforceable. Do you have a place to go every time he drinks? Are you prepared to pick up and go to that place any time of the day or night, in any and all weather, no matter what? As for the driving children, you will have to take total responsibility for that and just do all the driving yourself, because you can't count on him to be sober or stay sober at any given time.
I tried the boundary of not being around my ex when he drank. He would get up and follow me from room to room, no matter where I went. I had to call the police a couple of times in order to be allowed to leave with our son because he physically tried to stop me. I realized that I would only have peace if I left for good, so I made the boundary that I will not live in a home with active alcoholism. Then I enforced it.
Talking is going to get you exactly nowhere except into a big, pointless energy sucking argument. Boundaries are not words or rules for the alcoholic to follow, they are a catalyst for action on your part. That was my experience with boundaries anyway.

PinkCloudsCharley

Those are a mixture of my words and his, maybe I've heard them enough that they are mine. I do feel like a bag when i talk about this stuff, i feel like I'm focusing on the negative, like I'm reinforcing the drinking by talking about it.

I don't have anywhere to go, but can stay in a separate part of the house. He's usually in the basement anyways. I hate that basement simply because that's the only place he drinks. I can sleep in our two year old's bed if i need to.

I do feel like I need to state the boundaries, i don't want to take him by surprise. I want him to know so I don't have to explain it when the time comes.

ladyscribbler

Why would you have to explain it?

PinkCloudsCharley

As for driving, i do most of that anyway. It's inconvenient but not a hardship. I just need to know when he is drunk because sometimes he can hide it very well.

PinkCloudsCharley

My counselor said I need to be straight forward and clear to him about my boundaries. She said he needs to know what i am doing, why Iam doing it and how I am doing it. It's for me, but he needs to know I'm putting myself and the kids first.

ladyscribbler

That's why I said that you will always be driving, because you can't always tell when he's drunk, plus he could leave the house sober and get drunk on his way to or from someplace.
If you are expecting this boundary conversation to make him be honest about his drinking so that you know when he's good to drive, I think you are going to be disappointed.

ladyscribbler

Understood. Just make sure you're managing your expectations. Any conversation like this is going to be seen by him as criticism of his drinking. He will rage and gaslight and try to make you feel like you're doing something wrong, even if he's sober when you have the talk. Sometimes that sober anger is worse. I always thought so. I think in my mind it had more credibility than the drunk anger, which of course it didn't.
Are you in Alanon at all? I've found that to be a really helpful supplement to individual counseling.

Soberintexas007

I have thought about having that boundary (not being around him when he drinks), but I have decided not to. I just don't see it helping.

PinkCloudsCharley

I can't do Alanon right now. The times don't work between my job and my kids. I tried it before and it was awful, a bunch of old women complaining about who upset them during coffee. Went to that group a few times, didn't get better. Tried another group, they were very cliquey. The night before they had all gone out to a rock concert together and all they talked about was how much fun they had.

I think saying my boundaries out loud will help me enforce them. at the lleast, i won't have to explain myself while I'm enforcing them.

ladyscribbler

Sorry you had a negative experience with Alanon. That's a shame. My first meeting was a dud, but the second one was terrific, and I've never been to one where people didn't go out of their way to welcome newcomers.
Hope this boundary business goes smoothly for you. I remember that feeling of walking on eggshells not wanting to upset him during the "good" times. Ugh. Makes my stomach hurt just thinking about it.
Stay strong. We're always here for you. Hugs to you and your kids.

dandylion

soverylost....your boundaries are completely your and in your hands. It is completely your decision to announce them or not to speak about them at all.
You don't need his approval or agreement. It is up to him to take any reaction that he wants.
As ladyscribbler noted....the reaction will almost certainly be negative. Expect that. Anyone that interferes with the drink (or even mentions it) is regarded as the enemy. So, just be prepared for that.
You have a God-given right to protect yourself. Your feelings are important---In short...YOU MATTER. Just as much as he does. No less. If he thinks you are a B**** or a W****.....well, that is his problem. What he thinks of you is none of your business.

I found it necessary to grow a thick rhino skin.....

good luck.

dandylion

CodeJob

SoVery,

To be honest I did not know about boundaries the first 18 years of my marriage to an A. I did all the usual stuff that doesn't work. Until I realized it didn't work. Then I started living my life without the garage drinker.

When I did learn about boundaries, I put down a big one. No more drinking at home. I said this when my H went cold turkey on his own accord after trying to get Him into a local rehab. I told him this was my last time dealing with this. We had a child. No more drinking at home. Get help. I've heard cold turkey might work in the short term but you need help.

He nodded at me and made it 40 ish days. He relapsed and mouthed off to me in front of DS. This time he was hiding his drink and on vodka hence the mean vindictive voice. Right in front of kid I reminded him he could not live here if he drank. He better get help. He carried on and did zippo so I changed the locks when he went away to 'give me a break and let me calm down.' Believe me that is still a sore subject. It killed me to do it, but seriously I will do it again if need be legality to me is morality.

So that was/is my first boundary.

hopeful4

Those are very good boundaries. Now you just need to plan for when you need them. How will you enforce them. Everyone has to work that out in their head. For myself, I would take my kids and leave if he had been drinking. Problem with that is that we got tired of having to leave, and I could not morally tell him to leave via drinking and driving.

The other thing was that when I told him he could not drink and drive our kids under ANY circumstance, I had to be prepared he would try. Yes, he is that dumb and actually risked OUR children's lives b/c he thought he was fine. It took some very real convincing him that I will call the police if it happened again. He knows I mean that 100%.

I am not saying these things to scare you, more just to get yourself to prepare. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

XXX

53500

You know what, you can be clear at the time you are enforcing your boundaries. When you walk away from him when he is drunk say "I won't be around you when you are drunk".

I've found that announcing something comes off as an ultimatum or threat or even a challenge and can be counterproductive or ineffective. But ACTIONS are always effective. Just do it. Tell him WHILE you are doing it. Maybe after a few times he'll get the message.

But it doesn't even matter if he gets the message, what matters is that you protect yourself and your children.

AnvilheadII

I do feel like I need to state the boundaries, i don't want to take him by surprise. I want him to know so I don't have to explain it when the time comes.

you will need to ENFORCE these boundaries and that means the next time he is drunk in the home, you will need to promptly remove yourself. and he may ask "wherrrrrr r you goinnnn?" and that will be the time to clearly restate your boundary: I will not be around you when you are drinking, therefore i am leaving (the room, the house, the state).

i also agree that since you cannot TRUST him to put his children's safety first and NOT drink then drive with them in the car, he loses that privilege. PERIOD. in that way you are certain of their safety. no guessing, no snooping, no detective work.

he knows he's drinks. and he knows it causes problems. you making changes in how you repond and react won't be a SURPRISE, but it will give him cause to create drama. that's where we get hung up....feeling the need to defend ourselves, explain ourselves, when in fact we should adopt the same approach as the annual fire drill at work....we don't discuss this WITH the alarm, we simply get up, grab our purse, close our office door, and proceed to the nearest exit in a calm and orderly fashion.

Recovering2

Boundaries are for you...not for the Alcoholic. We can't control what they say or do, we can only enforce our boundaries. We don't have to announce them. Whether you tell him your boundaries or not is 100% your decision, there is no right or wrong answer about that. But keep a few things in mind:

*He may disagree with your boundaries and want to argue/bargain, etc. It does not matter whether he agrees or not, your boundaries are not up for debate.

*When he is drinking, don't expect him to remember your boundaries. He will likely not remember anything you said. It will be up to you to just go about enforcing them.

*When you start to enforce boundaries, you will get push back. My counselor told me it would take my A a couple of weeks to figure out that I had changed some things, and things might actually get worse initially. He was right. When my A realized I was acting differently (boundaries) he got madder and tried really hard to pull me back into the crazy. That's when you have to really hold your boundaries.

Boundaries will definitely help YOU, but it takes commitment to see it through. I'm sorry you had bad experiences with AlAnon, don't give up on that. I went to 3 different groups before I found one that was a great fit for me. And if they all seem to be friends when you first arrive, don't let that intimidate you. Over time in those meetings, we do form bonds with each other....no one else "gets us" like fellow AlAnoner's. I couldn't figure out why everyone was smiling, laughing, joking when I first went. Now 2 yrs later I can laugh and smile in a meeting. A lot of meetings have babysitting as well if you have child care issues.