football84

Hi everyone,

I am new to this group and am reaching out simply for any advice, encouragement, knowledge sharing, anything...

My father, age 56, is an alcoholic and has been for over 7 straight years now. Let me clarify though that he has experienced alcohol abuse in the past, recovered, and bounced back.

His drinking continues to get heavier (he drinks beer) and so do the signs of illness. His eyes are very yellow and droopy, his hands and arms have blood spots everywhere, he has had diarrhea issues for quite some time, his hands shake when he hasn't had a drink yet, and most recently he is experiencing short term memory issues. Just yesterday he contacted me three different times throughout the day to ask me the same exact question not remembering that we already spoke about his question for over 10min during his first call. This is not the first instance, he forgets what he had for dinner, forgets where he needs to be, etc. It's awful. He had a scheduled doc apt to get checked out and told us all he went, only to find out he never did. He does not want help and has said that many times. To him he does not have a problem.

Since then my mother scheduled a new doc apt and took him where they did some tests. His ammonia level is high, but not extremely high, a 44. They are scheduling a CT next week and then will go from there. What is pissing me off is the fact that the doctors don't seem to be creating any urgency or concern out of this. We have all had conversations with my father about our concerns and support and without hearing it direct from a doc I don't think it's ever going to set it.

This entire thing is shredding me up because I am seeing the turn that he is taking. I am depressed for him, for my family, for everyone. I have dreams of finding out that he's dead and I periodically wake up crying. This just sucks and I feel helpless. I'm 29 and have a lot of firsts in my life to experience yet that I want him to be a part of.

Have any of you had experiences where the doctors just didn't seem to be saying/doing enough? Based on everything I've read..and I've done ALOT of
reading..everything he's experiencing sounds like signs of liver failure/alcoholic dementia.


Have any of you done an intervention without an invention specialist? If so, how did that go? What did you do to prep for that meeting?


Any advice is apprecaited. At this time I just feel alone. Some other family members just keep saying there is nothing we can do, it's sad, blah blah blah. But I cannot just keep watching it happen. I understand he has to want to get better, but I also believe that we have a big role in getting him prepared to begin that new journey. If we don't do the research and contact rehab facilities, it will never happen.

lovetohikect

Hi there and welcome from another relative noobie. This is a great place to meet people who understand and care!

I am a little puzzled about a couple of the things you mentioned. Your dad has had an appointment, blood work, and is now having a CT? Of his liver? You said that the doctors aren't doing more than that at present but you would like them to do ... what? Apparently his blood work doesn't show cause for immediate concern? But, you would like them to focus in more closely to some of his other physical symptoms, such as coloration, apparent mental state, and his digestive issues? Or at least stress to your father the necessity of stopping drinking and entering a helpful program?

I guess I must say that I'm not entirely surprised that if your dad's blood-work doesn't show off the chart liver enzymes or other signs of ongoing liver destruction, his docs won't necessarily be pushing for immediate hospitalization. An awful lot of the time, medical doctors look at the numbers rather than the patient and they won't really do anything that the numbers don't seem to justify. Also, liver damage is sort of an odd thing, it can take a very long time for the liver to become non-functional and his doctors may well be waiting to see the pictures before they decide on what kind of action to recommend.

Finally, and it is very sad to know this but, in this country (I assume you are in the U.S.), people are permitted to drink themselves to death all the time. The standard for getting someone forced into rehab is really, really high. Of course I can't possibly know what the situation is where you live, but where we live, we have learned that the Probate Court will not generally commit someone for substance abuse unless they are at the (very well-documented) edge of death. Not too cheerful but there it is.

Good luck to you - living with someone in your father's condition is a darn hard thing, so try and take care of yourself the best you can, too.

Jane

lillamy

Hi there,

I'm really sorry to hear about your dad. And your pain is very clear and loud. It must be heartbreaking to see him continue down this path especially after having spent years being sober.

Intervention: I've never been part of one. I know two cases where it worked, in both a specialist was involved. In both cases, also, the alcoholic in question had a lot to lose -- job and family were both on the line. And in both cases, bosses and family members were completely ready to follow through with the ultimatum: You either go to rehab or we fire you and leave you, respectively.

Unless you see a doctor who specializes in addiction issues, I doubt you'll get someone to tell him to his face what's awaiting him. I'm also betting that once in the room with the doctor, your dad downplays his alcohol consumption. I've been in the room with an A when a doctor asked him how much he drank -- and he lied through his teeth. And I didn't have the guts to correct him. Don't expect that your mom would, either.

I think sadly, even if a doctor told him, there's no guarantee he would respond to it. My ex -- who was about the same age as your dad -- simply listened, said "mhmm" and went home and continued drinking. Even though his doctor listed what he could expect if he didn't quit -- starting with impotence and ending with losing limbs.

56 is very young for a person to show signs of dementia. I'm not a doctor but I worked with dementia patients when I was younger, and the only patients I ever encountered who were under 60 either had early-onset Alzheimers or Wernicke-Korsakoff Syndrome (alcohol dementia).

The usual response here to "what can I do to help?" is "not a whole lot." That's what I would usually say. But I think with him calling you three times in a day to ask the same question, maybe mentioning to the doctor that you are concerned about alcohol-induced dementia would at least be worthwhile? I'm guessing the CT scan might give you some answers about quite how expansive the damage to his brain is, and that might be a point in time when you can ask some pointed questions of the doctor.

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. I know it sounds trite but I worry about you taking on too much responsibility here. Addiction is hell to deal with. And as much as you want to help him or save him, I hope you aren't taking on too much responsibility for him. At the end of the day, sad as it is, you can't help a person who doesn't realize he needs help.

unsureoffuture

I agree with everyone else in that there isn't much you physically can do for him unless he is willing to accept help. Interventions only work if the person is willing to accept the help. You cant force him to go and even if he does, he will just return to his old ways once home until he is ready to change. I like you thought if only I could get my AH there it would change everything. I tried an informal one with my AH after consulting a professional (they are very expensive). Didn't work, blew up in my face. He didn't and doesn't want help and I can't make him get it.

Have you told your father exactly how you feel? Have you sat down with him and said look dad, I see x, Y, z. over the past year and it is destroying me to watch you go through this? He may be in denial about how this affects you. Most A's are. If you havent, it may be worth a shot. Also join Al-anon if you can. There are local meetings in your area. You will find it a great source of support and knowledge in how to deal with your father. Best of luck to you. I know how hard it is to watch this disease destroy them.

football84

Thank you everyone for your replies. I fully understand that I cannot make him do anything he doesn't want to, but I do at least want to make some tools available to him (treatment programs, counseling, etc) and if he uses them, great..if not, well then I did what I could and I can go on knowing that.

I know that I shouldn't put so much on my shoulders, but it's impossible not to when you used to have such a close relationship. My sibilings are not nearby so I see the impact more than anyone. His family members are not at all close, so no one else is approaching him about the issue, they just ignore it completely.

I guess what I'm really seeking, and what none of us here can answer, is candid feedback from the doctor on the outlook, etc. Not knowing what is going on with his body and the true severity is the hardest part. I think my head is all over the place because we don't know what is happening to him. Hopefully after the CT we'll get more info and be a little more at ease (as much as we can be anyway). As I mentioned in my previous post he has been an alcoholic for several years. The reason it is now bothering me more than ever is because of his new behaviors which are true signs that something is really wrong and it is all becoming more real.

Thank you all again..I appreciate your comments more than you know

Fandy

The physician's office MUST protect your father's privacy about his illness, this is the law in most states. Unless your father gives express permission, they cannot discuss his illness or treatments with you.

The decline in his cognitive functions can be brought to the doctor's attention by your mother who probably does have his permission.

again, doing "a lot of reading" does NOT give you the ability to DX your father, you're just playing doctor. Let the bloodwork up and CT scan and hopefully referral to both a neurologist and Gastroenterologist show what's up with his body.

otherwise, I would just ask your father if you can go to the doctor with him and act as his patient advocate. Many times, patients do not bring everything to the doctor's attention when they are asked what is wrong. Having a patient advocate with full notes and information can really help to dx and pinpoint the problems he is having. You are also less likely to LIE to the doctor about how much alcohol he drinks daily.

football84

Thanks for your reply! I am fully aware that I cannot get the details from the doctor (I am a volunteer first responder so am very familiar with HIPAA and other privacy laws) however my mother will be accompanying him and will share the information with me. And I’m not trying to play doctor, but rather just simply understand what could be happening and what he could be experiencing. I am taking what I read with a grain of salt, although most information points in only a few different directions. This is why though I’m eager for the results he’ll be getting on the 20th… we’ll finally have some real answers!

inpieces314

I once did an intervention without an interventionist. However, I went to school for this, so I kind of knew what I was doing-and only kind of, because it was on the ABF (although it was before we were together), so I was personally involved, which I would not recommend.

This was a long time ago, when he was on both pills and alcohol, and he did give up the pills afterward, although obviously, not so much the alcohol.

The problem with someone your dad's age is that they are already set in their ways, he already knows he has a problem, since it has been on and off for a while, and if they already lost everything, an intervention is not going to work because there is nothing else to lose. And what you think is an important thing to lose, he may not-which is the problem.

My grandfather had alcohol-related dementia, and there were seriously holes full of alcohol in his brain-it looked like swiss cheese. That damage took 30 years of full-fledged alcoholism, and it was irreversible. It was like Alzheimer's, the way he acted, he would get up and leave the house and not know where he was going. Even when he became sober, he still had those episodes. It was very sad.

And in the end, it doesn't matter what the diagnosis is, if he is not willing to stop drinking. Or, it could be too late, like my grandfather (I am not saying he has the same problem, just that his problem could be irreversible). Sometimes hearing that the alcohol is killing them is not enough to make them stop drinking.

lillamy

If you're a first responder, you probably have pretty specific fears in your mind already.

Is there any chance he would let you go with him to the appointment?