love4menotu

Hi guys.

Need your input again.

My recovering partner who was so loving, warm and honest whilst drunk / not in recovery... has turned cold. In just a few days after sobriety. Just about three weeks in. And here I thought a miracle had happened.

I am sitting here admitting to myself that I liked him better before sobriety. Now? Not so much. He's very self absorbed and withdrawn. So the dichotomy here is that I prayed for him every day, he is on a good path but his actions in that regard are a little suspect.

No AA, just willpower. Admits he is exhausted by therapists and the like. Just wants to put it behind him that he is an alcoholic. Secretive, hiding phone, phone convos in another room...

This is not the same man who just weeks earlier was so humble and admitting that he needed help.

It's this quiet, falsely overconfident man that scares me. This man could hurt me deeply if I am not very, very careful.

I'm detaching with love.. I've got to? Right? Isn't this what I have to do, for me?

Or is this all just early recovery... and I'm overreacting because just a few weeks ago he was near death and I can't let it go that the situation has changed?

I'm concerned about me. I'm concerned that I'm letting myself be drawn into an abusive relationship again, because I promised myself if I felt this was not good for me, I would leave. The last few days have not been good for me. I've been reacting emotionally more than I have in six months. Thought I had enough recovery under my belt to take care of myself better.

Now I'm not so sure.

Alanon, private therapy and exercise have gotten me through worse. But I am backsliding. I can feel it happening.

L

Hammer

Sounds like maybe both.

Sounds like -- Early Recovery AND Not Working a Program.

You have probably followed what the early recovery stuff is about? Their "normal" state was sedated. Now it is confused.

And on the other hand . . . .

"Not Working a Program" is a much nicer way of saying what is sometimes called "Dry Drunk," at which some folks take offense, so I will just give you the industry link . . . . What Is A Dry Drunk? | Addiction Recovery Basics

As far as you -- oh yeah. Detach and Distance.

love4menotu

Hi Hammer and thanks.. I've copied the following from that link and honestly, I can see four out of the seven destructive patterns at work in my partner. I know from the past that the only thing I can do is work my program as hard as I wish he would work his. But the truth is, everytime he gets sober for an extended period he becomes the over confident selfish prat again. And what's worse, in his less lucid moments he knows this. This is what is so frustrating, when he's as down as he can be he's very introspective. When he's rid himself of the depressant, he's (I suppose) his true self. So if my program is accepting him as he is, unadulterated, I've gotta accept this is him. Or move on. Damn.. this hurts. I've loved this man for years.


Here are some destructive patterns and actions that can result from dry drunk thinking:

1. We become restless and irritable and discontent.

2. We become bored, dissatisfied, and easily distracted from productive tasks.

3. Our emotions and feelings get listless and dull, nothing excites us anymore.

4. We start to the engage in the euphoric recall that is yearning for the good old days of active using and for getting the pain and shame of use.

5. We start to engage in magical thinking we get on realistic and fanciful expectations and dreams.

6. The last thing we want you is engaged in introspection to improve ourselves.

7. We start to become unfulfilled and have the feeling that nothing will ever satisfy our yearning or fill the hole in the sole.

Hammer

Or maybe just leave his crap out of it. But that is what I used to say, too. Now I would suggest YOU (and I) work OUR Programs as hard as we wish we would work OUR Own Programs. THAT works much better than me. No competing or comparing with an A. No way one could likely keep up with me on a Full Bore run, anyway.

Yeah, Bad Habits form on all sides, huh?

Here are some destructive patterns and actions that can result from US Thinking about dry drunk thinking:

1. We get tied up into their crap.

Their Crap is No Place I Wanta Be. How about you?

love4menotu

Ha. No their crap is not a place I want to be. If only because there isn't a dang thing I can do about it.

My crap however.. there's a lot I can do about that.

In fact, I'm going to get my butt outside and go for a run. And then I am going to make a nice lunch and perhaps go buy myself a pretty pair of shoes.

And I'm gonna be grateful that I am alive. And that I can see the man I love as his sober self. And that I love myself enough to know all of this is just what it is. It's life. And that if I chose to do so, I can walk away.

And still be happy. For him and for me.

Thanks for the kick up the arse Hammer.

L

Hammer

huah!

involved

To accept something doesnt mean that you have to like it. It means that you just understand thats just how things are...ie. homelessness, war, poverty
Then once you accept...you decide what you will do with that knowledge and make choices that are right for you based on that knowledge. Ie if you accept that he is abusive, then do you accept being abused? what is the right choice for you, based on that knowledge? You can only change you...

So do you accept a life with an abusuve husband, or move on?
Or something entirely different...your choice.

love4menotu

Look, I've been abused. This is indifference, yea it hurts, but it isn't going to kill me or punch me or make me want to kill myself.

My partner is lots of things that are wonderful. Otherwise, I wouldn't be here. I ask myself every day if I want to continue and every day I say yes. Today however, I said no.

So I'm saying no today. Tomorrow I will ask myself again.

Thanks,

L

love4menotu

An update...

It's worsening. He does not want to see me, and of course I assume this is because he is drinking again.

I don't know anything for sure, and I'm sure as hell not going to investigate.

I'm packing up my mental suitcase, preparing for the onslaught of guilt, hurt and generalized pain to come my way. From me of course, no one else will do it to me.

I've realized that I suffer from a chronic and debilitating case of dipshititis.

How stupid am I, to really think alcoholism would go away, just because he said so. And even if he's not drinking, the way I feel right now he may as well be.

Sick.. this is sick.

And right now that quote in my signature line is pure hypocrisy..

ladyscribbler

So sorry. I remember when I was hanging so much hope on someone else's recovery and it all turned out to be a lie. I was devastated and filled with rage. Later I came to see that my expectations caused those bad feelings more than his actions. Hugs. This too shall pass.

love4menotu

I have called it quits so many times with this man, sometimes for years at a time, and always come back.

I don't really understand it, I've never had a relationship like this one.

He was sober for four years. This relapse has lasted four months. I keep thinking I'm overreacting, since he's been sober before and can do it again.

At least that is what I am hearing.

He also lives with his brother who also has substance abuse problems, and he is wanting to help his brother. I see them as two individuals keeping each other in addiction / codependency.

Nothing I can do about this. I know.

This is a great challenge to my own personal recovery. Keeping up detachment but still being a caring person to my partner. This is a very hard road to hoe. In the past, I've left people this toxic. But this guy? Under my skin, has been for years.

The kindest, sweetest, most gentle person I've ever met. And also the most selfish.

I gotta figure this out.

suncatcher

Hi love4menotyou, I relate to your post in so many ways. My A is not a dry drunk, but a self absorbed drunk. I've been detaching but still have those recurring bouts of dipshititis. Keep working on you. I'm sorry for what you are going through. Sending peaceful thoughts your way.

healthyagain

Oh, I so too can relate. See, my hubby has greatly reduced the frequency of drinking BUT tends to be horrible when sober...super withdrawn, super pessimistic, hurtful, toddler like, barely communicating...and it makes me really wonder if I like him better when he is drunk. But honestly, I do not like his behavior at all. He is still an alcoholic who does not want to accept that it is a huge problem. What I have learned in the past two months is, sober or drunk, IT DOES NOT MATTER! It is the same person who is so messed up in the head. But you know what, so am I! I ended being with him, and I have so much work to do on myself. There is only one life. Do not waste it.

love4menotu

thank you healthyagain...

I just asked him for a month of no contact. Used my battles with depression as an excuse. But the truth is, would I really allow a relapsing alcoholic in my life no matter how good of a person he is?

The answer is no.

I don't care how much effort I put into my own self care. I would never be able to rise above the constant uncertainty that being with even a recovered alcoholic would bring.

He just responded via text... "whatever you say".

These are not the words of a man who loves me. Those are the words of a very tired, very self absorbed person. A person who is tired of life and tired of the struggle.

I want to be happy. He's not.

Pray for strength, for me and for him. Strength for me to stay away from him, and for him to stay away from booze.

L

love4menotu

Writing here again today so I don't reach out to him and make things worse.

My head is so wrapped up in him today.. can't stop thinking about him.

Any suggestions to help me get through today?

L

ladyscribbler

Not sure how the weather is where you are, but if it's nice maybe take a walk and enjoy the weather. Take along a notebook, find a bench or an outdoor cafe and treat yourself to a fancy coffee and watch the world go by.
Hugs. Sorry you're having a hard time.

SparkleKitty

Do you have Netflix streaming? Or cable OnDemand? Or Amazon streaming? Find a show you've always wanted to watch, start with episode one, and go. Immerse yourself in someone else's story for as long as you can.

Other ideas: exercise, start learning a new language, write -- either write your own story down in a journal or write a new story about a woman who gets a second chance to have a different life, phone your family or friends to chat. Ask them about their life and their day and what their dreams are.

Above all, you just have to get through today. If that's too much to think about, concentrate on the next hour, the next half hour, the next fifteen minutes.

You will get there, to the place where this is not so hard or overwhelming. I have been where you are and as hard as it is to trust that there is peace and happiness ahead, you have to try to believe it is, and that you will get there on your own power. Promise.

love4menotu

THIS IS REALLY HELPING ME TODAY.....

Real Love

March 13, 2013 By Susan J. Elliott


Real love is a permanently self-enlarging experience. – M. Scott Peck

Dysfunctional and destructive love affairs make our lives smaller. We lose sleep, family, friends, material things, money and time at work. To the extent we ever had it, we lose self-respect and self-esteem. We lose our ability to think clearly and independently. We become used to losing things, we become used to the narrowness of our lives and our willingness to let this other person narrow it even further.

When we have true love, real love, functional love, we don’t lose the people in our lives. Real love does not demand that you give up friends or your time for your friends, in fact it encourages independence and being fulfilled by other people, places and things.

Real love is secure to the point where you can fill your life up with other things. You are a healthy and functional person and your healthy and functional mate trusts and supports you. (and you are both trustworthy–that’s the important part).

Real love does not purposely or unwittingly engulf you. I’ve seen people claim to be healthy but be in completely enmeshed relationships that are unhealthy and they cannot see the enmeshment for what it is. I’ve seen people get taken hostage by someone and taken away from their family, friends, interests and hobbies all the while CLAIMING that the person who is taking them away is just really into them. No. Blending family, friends, interests and hobbies with a new relationship is never easy…but real love not only allows it, but demands it. What is important to you should be important to them.

Real love is not jealous and can let go enough to let someone go off and fill themselves with their friends, their interests, their very important solitude time….knowing that a fulfilled person comes back to the relationship a happy person and that makes the relationship better.

Real love doesn’t make us worry needlessly. It doesn’t make us wait and wonder and watch. In dysfunctional and destructive relationships we are forever hypervigilant…always off our pins, we are always waiting for the other shoe to drop, we cannot figure out, from one day to the next, what is real and what is not. If you are wondering that, chances are NONE OF IT IS REAL. Chances are you are in a bait-and-switch relationship which is designed to keep you forever uneasy.
It is that uneasiness that captures our attention. So long as our attention is captured, we are not thinking about leaving or making ourselves and our life better, we are always focused on our dysfunctional mate. It is hard to FIND the energy to leave so long as we are embroiled, constantly, in nonsense. (anvil note - this made me think of Everhopeful's CHICKEN post!)

Real love is a PERMANENTLY self enlarging experience. There are many people in bad relationships and in denial about how bad those relationships are who will point to the few times the dysfunctional and destructive other allowed for their growth. But chances are, they took it back at some point and the growth was diminished or permanently stomped out. Real love gives without taking it back.

Real love does not HURT. Real love does not play mind games, does not send mixed messages and is not passive-aggressive. If you’re in a relationship where these things are present, chances are you have felt crazy a time or two. That is a narrowing experience. You become so nuts you can’t live your life to the best of your ability. And that is not self-enlarging. It’s damaging and narrowing.

Real Love doesn’t say sorry very often. In the 1970s there was a movie called Love Story whose tag line was “Love means never having to say you’re sorry.” Love Story is the ultimate schmaltzy movie and the line became the punch line for years after its release. However, there is some truth in the much-maligned line. Real love needs to apologize very seldom. And it’s not “doesn’t apologize” because most controlling, anger people never apologize, but “doesn’t NEED to apologize” very often. Love is about taking care of self and taking care of your mate. And those things are in balance to the point where they seldom collide.

Controlling and abusive people get to the point where they cross so far over the line that the controlled person has had enough and is ready to split. It is at that point that the abuser engages in, what I call, “abusers remorse.” I qualify it like that because it is NOT real remorse. It is the remorse necessary to get the other person back in the game and under his or her control. It’s a cat and mouse game played by the cat so the mouse doesn’t get away. Once the mouse believes it is safe to move, the claws of destruction come back out.

The abusive partner will even cry and beg the other person not to leave. They will swear UP AND DOWN that they “get it” and things will be “different this time.” and SWEAR they will go to counseling, go to anger management, go to the ends of the earth just to keep you. They will SWEAR that they saw the light because you were leaving them and they suddenly realized what you meant to them.

Don’t believe it for a second. Again, it’s not REAL remorse. It’s remorse just to keep you in the game. And guess what? Real love doesn’t see this kind of scene EVER. It’s just something that does not happen.

And what happens to abusers remorse? How does the abuser “change back” and reel the contrite stance back in? Why it’s you. It’s YOUR FAULT when things go back to the status quo. You’re not being nice enough, tolerant enough or too bhity, whiny, clingy — whatever. Name that behavior of yours that will cause the destruction and abuse to return. If you fall for abuser’s remorse, this is what you will get…not only an abuser who’s even more ticked off at you…but an abuser who is blaming you for everything that is going wrong.

Real love is the furthest thing in the imagination from this scene. Real love does not seek to place blame. Real love looks for compromise and solutions. Real love does not cause one partner or both partners to stand there wringing their hands endlessly because of what is and is not happening.

Real love does not play games, it does not cause us to lose sleep, friends, jobs, money, time and value in our lives. Real love is an ENLARGING and not a NARROWING experience.

And finally, real love exists. But–and this is a big BUT–it is true that in order to find the right person, you need to BE the right person (I have no idea where I heard this quote, but it’s SO true).

To be the right person you have to do your work. As I say over and over again, WATER SEEKS ITS OWN LEVEL. If you are attracting and attracted to unhealthy and dysfunctional, you are unhealthy and dysfunctional.

Do your work and they disappear and real love has a chance to walk in.