badger1

Hi fellow Steppers,

I am working through my step 7. I blogged about it here, and I am writing on this sub-forum to basically ask for tips, help, encouragement, etc.

I am an agnostic and I have a conception of HP that is working for me. But the problem with that is that Step 7 is a little more complicated for me. As I cannot just pray humbly to have my defects removed. I have to work on it. I have to put in effort. What I have no control over is the outcome. That is something I am trying to really internalize.

So it comes to this. I have identified my defects. The biggest ones are Fear of failure, procrastination, untidiness and arrogance. I have a good start on all, but having lived like this for over 40 years; I am finding it difficult to enact the changes in my life.

I have got suggestions from my sponsor, the groups I go to and the interwebs. But it looks like I am trying too hard. Too many voices.

My question is: Has anyone else had a similar experience working this step? How did you continue? Is it okay to start working on this step, not expecting immediate results but gradual change; but go on to working Step 8? By that I mean, if I wait for all my 'defects' to be taken away before I do step 8; I will be waiting a loooooong time!

I am finding that praying every morning is really helping me get started in the day. I still have the crippling fear of failure and it is leading to procrastination. I see that clearly now and am working on it all the time.

Thanks

Zencat

As freethinker in AA I found working the 'agnostic' steps more in line with being true to myself. I use a homemade Tibetan prayer wheel for all my prayers. I simply write the prayer on a small piece of paper, put in inside the wheel, and spin it. For changing the harmful thoughts and behaviors that hinder my sobriety and personal growth, I use CBT and DBT for that, links below.

DBT Skills List
cbtrecovery

Hope I could Help.

AA Agnostica

PaperDolls

Yep, I have a similar experience. It was (is) gradual for me.

I became aware of my defects of character. That was a huge step. I rewrote the 7th step prayer to be more specific to me. More meaningful to me.

I never understood just saying the prayer and then poof, their gone. I've met very few people that say that's how it worked for them.

I've shared in meetings that most of my defects that I listed and 'asked' to be removed are gone ..... and then new ones crop up, and then the old ones come back, etc.

I have to work on it on a daily basis.

It's progress, not perfection. So yes, move on to step 8.

Gal220

The step does NOT require you to be free of character defects before moving on. That would be impossible. We see our defects and we ask our higher power (or our friends and accountability partners) for help in overcoming them. But, as you pointed out, we eventually start changing our behavior (whether that's with the help of a higher power or not). I was very overwhelmed at this step. I thought I had to be this perfect person now that I saw all these glaring defects. If I could do that, I wouldn't be in this mess to begin with!

But eventually, with the help of my sponsor, I came to realize this step is just all about willingness and perseverance. I see my defects. I want to do better. When situations arise, I take the opportunity to do the right thing. That's it. In the process, I realized I "liked" some of my defects too much to want to get rid of them. So then I worked on willingness.

UncleMeat69

God's schedule v. my schedule:

I was 23 years sober before HP removed my smoking addiction,
even though I listed it as a 7th Step defect that I wanted
to get rid of. I have had many defects removed thru the years-
sometimes quickly or sometimes slowly, but HP
is in charge of scheduling.

As far as moving on to Step 8, you did that one when you did
your 4th. Step. Paragraph 3, Page 76 of BB (3rd. Edition). So having
your list, I suggest you start making your amends with due diligence.
Remember the 12 Promises are in Step 9 - Don't you want to get
some of those goodies ?

Finally, you can start doing 10, 11 & 12 immediately to ensure your
prolonged sobriety which is contingent on keeping in "fit spiritual
condition." That should go on for a lifetime.

sugarbear1

my higher power takes away my defects of character....not of my choosing, but those of that higher power.....

I can become aware of my patterns of behavior and I can attempt to not react, to think before I speak or act......

it's all a process of change....

badger1

Thanks you everyone who has taken time to reply. I really appreciate it.

I was feeling that I don't need to be 'perfect' before I proceed to step 8. Nice to be reinforced in that idea. And I had completely forgotten about AAAgnostica. Thanks for reminding me of that resource.

I have already started doing step 11. I go to a Step 11 meeting, and I realized that after step 3, I have a concept of my HP that works for me. Nothing is stopping me from doing step 11. So I started with some prayers. The funny thing is, I became an Agnostic when I was around 18. I grew up saying prayers from the Vedas and learning all those chants and shlokas by heart. Now I realized that those prayers and chants and shlokas can be easily adapted to my AA practice. It does not even have to involve the religious aspect of Hinduism at all. So I have started chanting vedic prayers in the morning. Now that I know the meaning and not doing them heedlessly, it actually makes sense. Whenever I am in meetings where they end with the Lord's prayer; I just do my Vedic chants!

I really have started identifying when my defects crop up and am making a conscious effort to not do what I used to do before. That is a beginning. I know what the problem is; I kinda know what the solution is; and I am going to live the solution. Also, the humility part comes in when I realize that I have control only on my action and not the results. This is another thing I am getting used to.

So thanks again. This helps. :-)

Joe Nerv

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

The step doesn't say, "Decided to start working on my character defects". Nor does it say I asked god to help me do that. What those 2 steps mean to me is that I became completely willing to let go of anything and everything that might be getting in the way of my usefullness to myself and others, and then that I ask and believe that god will take care of that for me. My experience has proven that it works. And that doing the opposite, trying to "not" do things, or fix myself does not work. That's me playing god again. That's me thinking I know what needs fixing, and then thinking I have the knowledge and power to do it.

As uncle meat stated, my clearest sober example came with my 2 1/2-3 pack a day cigarette habit. Tried quitting 100s of times, and only smoked more. Resigned myself to the fact that I was going to die a smoker, and one day, unplanned, through a serious of unsolicited coincidences I went without a cigarette. Was so excited about that I had a go at 2 days, then 3... it's now been almost 20 years since I smoked a cigarette. My experience was the same with alcohol. Until I surrendered, until I quit trying to fix my drinking problem, it was impossible for me to stop.

That has been the case with so many other things. First that comes to mind is punctuality. I could not show up on time, and if I showed up at all it was actually a pretty big deal. I got a job where it was essential that I was on time. Haven't been late for work in 20 years. Haven't missed paying (or been late on) a bill in the same amount of time. Trust when I say that is NOT me, nor my doing. I had some heavy duty issues with sex and commitment. I'm now happily married, in a committed relationship. I could go on and on with this stuff. I was acutely aware of all the defects that were running me. I no longer desired any of them, was completely willing to let them go, and lo and behold... many of them are now gone. And not by my choosing. And not by my effort. And certainly not in my time .

The thing with this step and me is I had to go at first on blind faith. It didn't seem logical that these things would just be "magically" removed, for the asking. Poof, I'm healed, didn't have to do anything. Snapped my fingers, asked god, and the job was done. And that wasn't the case. They took time to be healed, some, a very long time, even decades, but it happened. And I only really have complete faith being able to look back. People often say, "I only have today," and regarding my sobriety that's true, but regarding my sober experience, it's not. I know things looking back now, that I couldn't possilby know, until they actually happened. Healing through the 7th step is one of those many things.

While I don't want to get overly complicated about this, I do have my own set of beliefs about how this works. I'm not one who believes there's an old bearded man sitting in the clouds with a notebook (or ipad ) who says, "Hey, Joe's ready! Let's start cleaining this guy up!" I do however believe in a benevolent and healing universe. The only thing that comes between that universe and me, is me. And I believe the steps to be an excellent means of getting "me" out of the picture. Out of my own way. When I do that, I allow the healing energy in, and I believe I am naturally transformed. Over time.

I also believe getting out of my own way and not trying to control things leads me to the experiences I need in order to facilitate that change. A good example would be with commitment/sex issues. I wind up being attracted to the woman who's going to give me lots of what I need for healing there. I go through lots of pain, do lots of stupid things, those stupid things land me in couples counseling, acoa meeting.... I hear, I experience, I learn, I grow. Some people might consider that "working" on their defects, but trust me when I say it wasn't work. It was things that I was led into, and I wasn't led into them thinking I'm going to fix my commitment issues! It was because I was nuts in love or lust with some woman, and didn't want the pain involved if we broke up. Which is usually what happened anyway . I hope this makes sense, as I'm trying to get a whole lot across in a very small space. What I'm basically trying to say is that when I let go and let god, I seem to be given all that's necessary to get where it is I need to be going, and be healed. When I play god, I get into even more trouble. All I feel that's needed from me is the wililngness, and the faith.

Anyhoo... this has been my experience with the 6th and 7th step. I've still got a long way to go, which is why I never consider myself done with this stuff.

If you're completely willing and you've humbly asked your HP to remove your defects, I'd say you're ready to move on. Just do so trusting that you are being healed. Even if it doesn't seem or feel like you are.

badger1

This. Thank you.

I have become willing to have my HP remove my defects of character. I was wondering if I should wait till I start seeing 'results' before I need to move on. Everyone here is reassuring me that my willingness and humility are the real step, not results. Makes me feel better, as I thought if I have to wait till my defects are taken away before doing step 8 (which I want to do), then I will be waiting a looong time. :-)

Gal220

Maybe that's just a little bit of fear of 8 and 9?

WMJ1012

If I want the step to work I have to do what it says

LiveInPeace

My sponsor explained to me that Step 7 is not about saying a prayer and poof your character defects are gone. It's about saying the prayer, however you want to word it, and that your Higher Power/Your own concept of God takes them away in His time. In your case as an agnostic, I'm guessing that means your character defects will go away when they go away, if that makes sense.

I find that with losing my character defects, the most important part was the self-awareness. If I realize I have the character defect of procrastination, then over time it gets easier to see procrastination pop up, instead of being blind to it or in denial. Someone once said "You can't change what you don't acknowledge" and that "Awareness is the first step".

Certainly move on to Step 8, since your character defects aren't going to go away right away. It's a process. Nowhere does it say you can't move on to Step 8 until your character defects are gone. Our character defects will never fully disappear in my opinion but we become much more aware of them and we try to act accordingly.

My home group doesn't suggest this, but I know many have found this useful: you may want to check out the book "Drop the Rock". It's not written specifically for agnostics but it's all about character defects. You can change the word Higher Power/God to what it is that you use.

LiveInPeace

Yes, as Joe pointed out, willingness and humility are the key. You don't have to wait. They'll be removed in your Higher Power's time. Remain aware of them and when they appear, ask your HP for help. Move on to Step 8 now.

stevieg46

Hi Badger .

Steps 6 and 7 , we are ''asking Hp to remove our defects and shortcomings '' HP removes them not us .

Step 10 on a nightly review deals with admitting wrongs and promptly dealing with it , daily short comings or defects can be dealt with immediately ''if recognized in time '' if not we do it on reflection in continued inventory or when its suitable for us . ( just my two cents ).

Regards Stevie .

Sobriety date 12 03 2006 , words are easy music is a lot harder .

Eddiebuckle

I would suggest this approach: much like you give thanks for another day sober and work on your spirituality for the daily reprieve, simply ask for awareness of when you might be veering back into the rut of old thinking/reactive behavior and the courage to choose a different path. The steps are about progress, not miraculous overnight changes. If each day you get a little more aware and respond a little bit differently, time will take care of the rest.

Congratulations and good luck!

Gottalife

I view character defects as normal human traits severely out of whack. They have been restored in me to something approximating normal sane reactions. I can't claim the credit for that. It happened in spite of me.

Early on I got the idea that I had to remove my own character defects. I did exactly as one wise man predicted, went after the wrong one and ended up with an even more cleverly disguised defect. In the process I created quite a decent disaster zone in my sobriety, requiring direct amends, and it was painful.

After that, I asked God to take over. Some things changed at once, others took a while with me often repeating the defect over and over until I eventually saw the futility and it became redundant. My mistakes didn't seem to matter as long as I remained willing.

CousinA

I was at a meeting a few weeks ago and heard a man share that he did his 5th Step with a priest in the church where the meeting was located. The priest listened then told him "Don't do any of that anymore". That is Six and Seven as I understand them.

I was a thief and a liar when I was drinking and after I got sober and I'm still capable of both after all this time. When I was unhappy and miserable enough as the result of those behaviors I had the brilliant idea to stop. Who knew? I don't believe in a god or higher power that either creates or removes my character defects. I believe the same as Mike that they're human traits out of control. Instincts in collision as they say in the book.

What I do believe is my day to day life out on the street presents me with endless opportunity to change my behavior once I become willing.

Merry Christmas, if that's your thing.

-allan

mfanch

I was told that step 7 was a prayer, but was also told that I must do my part to look at my shortcomings and adjust my behavior. Not like a robot in that I "act the opposite", but in an "act my way into correct thinking" kind of way.

I ask the universe/whatever to have me be the person it needs me to be so that I am of maximum service. (I imagine myself to be an EQUALIZER that can be adjusted with the slide bars.....)

I also had trouble with this in the beginning as I am a non-theist. I have a higher power who I call "not me", and just execute the directions, because they work. My sponsor told me that I all I had to do was seek. She said it didn't say anything about finding in that sentence. lol

Darwinia

Whether a person believes in an all powerful god or not, character traits will only change over time. Some perhaps will never change. Just try and be the person you want to be sober. You will know what is best.