BlueChair

I have been thinking about the stages it takes to get to acceptance. These are working concepts for me. I thought I would share them, and maybe people would like to talk about their own experiences with each stage in the process. (Denial, Anger, Fear, Grief, Acceptance)

Denial

Any change or loss in your life is likely to bring denial. Honestly looking at the situation and how it came to be, taking responsibility must come first. Once you own the problem then you can do something about it. It is only when you are making decisions about your life, making the choices that allow change to take place that healing begins. With necessary change, life will begin to improve. Change the mind to change the body to change life.

cleaninLI

Bc thank you for these posts! I can relate to these stages in my own life. There have been a few tramatic experiences or big changes in my life. A see where I have gone thru these stages.

Just for the sake of focusing on addiction. I would like to explain how these have related to me and my recovery.

I would say that denial was pretty much what kept me deep in my active phase of addiction. Telling myself that I'm not really addicted. "I can quit at any time." Or saying "I will taper off the pills." Even when I knew I had a problem could not quit or taper, I justified my use by thinking "Everyone is addicted to one thing another, so it's no big deal".

allforcnm

Hi Blue,
Thank you for posting these questions. Im going to answer all of them based on my own experiences but it will take me a couple days. During this whole experience I think I can break my denial down into two things: not understanding my husband was addicted, and my own behaviors.

With my husband, he became addicted after being on prescription pain medicine for a long period of time due to an injury and multiple surgeries. His addiction happened when he started using the meds for his mental and emotional pain, instead of his physical pain. I didn’t realize he was doing this until his behavior started to change. Prior to this, I don’t feel like I was in denial because his behavior hadn’t changed very much, and how would I have known? When his behaviors did start to change and he didn’t recognize it was causing damage to our relationship that is actually when I think I was first hit with denial, or maybe it was just ignorance because I didn’t understand addiction and I thought he was just choosing to use drugs over me; I didn’t see there was more going on. It took me a long time to realize he needed help, and even longer to realize it was possible for me to help him obtain proper medical care.

Those were both due to denial and lack of knowledge.

The other thing that I know I was in denial about was my own behaviors. I acted out because of my own emotions; many of the ones you listed here. But at the time I felt like I only did these things because of him. His actions were causing me to have these reactions. So it was his fault things in my life were not going the way I wanted, and it was his fault I was acting in ways that were against my beliefs. It wasn’t until I got into therapy that I realized I had to hold myself accountable for my own behaviors. No matter what he did, or regardless of what happened in my life at any time – I still had a choice of how I responded. Realistically this was something I knew; something my parents had even instilled in me; but in the turmoil of all that was going on I seemed to forget.

BlueChair

((Cleanin)) ((Allfor)) thank you both.

Ive tried to look at denial in past, present, future. ((Past))

When I found out he was using drugs, found out all the things he did when he was high it broke my heart and I felt unsure of who he was, or if I knew him. Questioned if our relationship meant more to me than him, or why else would he have done all those things he knew would hurt me? I feel at peace now I know how much he was under the control of the drugs. He was doing things were hurting him but because we have a relationship, it was hurting me as an extension. He never intended it to, never thought any of it through with clear thinking.

It still made me go back and look at our whole relationship to see if I was missing and it had been dysfunctional in some way? I dont think it ever was, no one who knows me/us has come forward when I asked them if they saw some kinds of weird dynamics between us.

When I had counseling in the beginning she started out by asking questions about me, my childhood growing up, relationship with my parents, sister and other people. I know it is because they can look at your life and find patterns of destructive behavior, or if you are weak in certain areas of your life then they can trace back to where it possibly began.

She came up with things that she feels helped define who I am, what I believe in, but she didnt think I sought out my husband because part of me was unhealthy and I was using him to fill a void. She said most healthy people select a partner who is similar to them, has qualities they admire. There are other things like marrying for necessity, money but I didnt do any of those things.

I feel better now about the past, I think I got scared because it felt like everything I trusted was shaken up. Ive read where people were drawn to the addict personality because they have their own issues of codependency from neglect issues or whatever and addict traits are to take, and they want to mother or give and it makes an unhealthy match. I dont see codependency between us. The only thing I see now is I let him handle a lot of responsibilities in our marriage where I should have been more involved. I realized after he got sick there was a lot I didnt know about our finances and things. Is it bad though? Ive talked to a my parents and some relatives and it seems to work out that way sometimes.

The other thing is my inlaws, especially my mother in law made me feel guilty because I didnt know he was using sooner. She said I was living with him and how could I not know something was wrong? I knew something was different and I felt a little neglected because he was gone a lot but I thought he was working. I had seen him get like that before when working he becomes absorbed in what hes doing until its done. I was also working and had things to keep me busy, wasnt worried and thought it would pass.

Ive felt responsible for not seeing it, and then I think even if I didnt know he was using i knew something was wrong, why didnt I talk to him or tell him how I felt?

When he did the first binge and didnt come home I called his parents, but then after he came home and told me what happened he didnt want anyone to know. If I had told them it might have made a difference and the second binge wouldnt have happened. Is that denial, or guilt?

hopeful4

Denial is the most powerful. I had my head in the sand for years, not only about my husband and his addiction, but also my addiction to my husband. Sometimes I look back at those days and miss them because I honestly thought we had issues but was in such denial about how serious the issues were.

I remember when I first started going to CR and realized that I was in denial and wondered where to go from there? Could I ever be well again? Now I realize that while I am not in denial, my AH still is. He just Friday told me how I was overreacting to "A couple of beers," that get mixed w/all sorts of Rx drugs. No, I am not. One of us is still in denial, that person is not me. Unfortunately I am having a problem with the action part. Not for myself, I would leave in a second and would have long ago if I did not have two children to think of.

My AH said that when a car gets a flat tire you don't get rid of the car, you fix the tire. I told him that once you have spent so much energy and money trying to fix the tire and it keeps breaking over and over, you trade it in for a different car because you eventually realize that driving on a tire that could explode at any time is hazardous to your safety.

I went through the grief stage already. I go in and out of the anger stage. I am out of denial and thankful I am past that one. Fear is next, and I have alot of work to overcome that one, although I am a work in progress. Only until I am free will I have acceptance.

Thank you BC for posting this and provoking such thought in all of us!

cleaninLI

Thank you guys for your responses about denial. That helped me to understand my husband better. I think he went through the same as you. Not so sure it was denial as much as ignorance..... Not knowing much about addiction. I think he knew people can and do become addicted, but never had that kind of thing happen to him before. Didn't realize it was happening. Your right it comes on slowly and can be kind of suttle at first....not too mention we(addict side) keeping it secret....down playing it and our own denial.

I remember him angry and taking it personal too. Saying stuff like, "If you really cared about us you would just quit!" Or "I can't believe you would choose drugs over your family!"

Bc I think my husband and I were healthy too, when we married. We enjoyed each others company. We have similar interests....similar outlook on life. I know I was impressed with my husband's intelligence...I thought he was interesting and I liked his open-mindedness. I would have to say most of my husband's codependent/enabling type of behaviors were primarily a result of misunderstanding addiction and addict behavior. As time went on and my addiction grew worse....he started setting bounderies.

Hopeful one thing came to mind while reading your hubby's flat tire analogy was his alcohol consumption being like deliberately rolling the fixed tire over nails. That is how sabotaging drinking can be during recovery. I would say the majority of addicts switch addictions....even if he's never had a problem with alcohol in the past. I read this so many times here. "I can drink or use some other drug. I've never had a problem with it." That statement is "classic denial". Uh yeah, because you had your DOC.....take that away and the addict in you will find another DOC to replace it. Of course I'm not saying that alcohol will be the substance he chooses.... but, isn't he better safe than sorry? At least I know for me that if I drank.... it would certainly become a problem.....better not to drink. I know this is hubby's "denial" not yours....it must be so hard knowing what's right and watching someone you love making the wrong mistakes over and over again. That would be extremely frustrating!

Hugs and prayers to us all.

Thank you again.

BlueChair

Been doing more reading on denial, found this article even thought its talks about denial from a business perspective, I can shape it to fit the current situation of unsteady waters Im in, thought Id share.

10 Signs your in denial
Steve Tobak, Moneywatch

People make all sorts of excuses for the mistakes they make. I know I do. And so do you, I'm sure. Which is fine because most mistakes have little impact so they're no big deal.

Once in a great while, however, we make big mistakes that have big consequences. Which is inevitable if you take risks, as you should if you want to get anywhere in business and in life. And that, like it or not, leads to a particularly hairy dilemma: How to take big risks while minimizing the downside.

Long ago I had a boss who always used to tell me, "Try not to make mistakes you have to live with." He was actually referring to the way his ex-wife took him to the cleaners in a nasty divorce and custody battle. For better or worse, that was his unique way of cautioning a young apprentice. You know, I never forgot what my boss said, probably because I took it to mean a lot more than he intended. I think of it this way: "Try not to screw up so badly that you have a disaster on your hands." And when you're an executive or a leader, the consequences of your actions can impact lots of people in big ways.

I can't say my execution has been flawless over the years, but I do my best. And the longer I'm on this planet, the more I realize that mitigating disaster is all about one word: Perspective. You see, just about every time I've seen somebody -- a CEO, VC, entrepreneur, personal friend -- screw up in a way that can best be described as a disaster, that one word --perspective -- was always missing from the equation.

Now, I know what you're thinking. Smart people do dumb things. Leaders let their egos and hubris get the better of them. The Peter Principle is alive and well in companies big and small. There are all sorts of reasons why people and organizations fail. Yes, that's all true; I've said as much in the past. But there's a big difference between attaching pithy labels to a problem and coming up with a pragmatic way to identify a major failure mode before it happens. It turns out that there are plenty of warning signs when a person or an organization is too close to a situation and can't see the forest for the trees. And when that happens, when people feel their options are limited, they often behave desperately, recklessly and stupidly.

So, whether it's you, your manager, your CEO, or your company, learn to recognize the signs of a profound and chronic lack of perspective before it's too late and you end up with an unmitigated disaster on your hands:

1. You try to control things you can't and ignore things you need to change. Yes, that's sort of the opposite of the serenity prayer, I know. But that's what people often do when they're afraid to face something big. Go figure.

2. Intolerance of bad news. You're surrounded by yes-men who tell you what you want to hear and sugar-coat the truth. Always a sign that you're hiding from reality. Usually followed by some sort of disaster.

3. You've got all the answers and no questions. Whenever you hear an executive or business leader say, "I don't have to ask customers; I know what they'll say," that's bad news. Instead of "customers," you can also substitute "the board," "employees," or any stakeholder.

4. You're secretive, holding information too close to the vest. The problem with barriers is that they keep information in and out. By definition, that means lack of outside perspective and objectivity.

5. Status quo rules. "That's the way it's done," "that's how we've always done it," or "we've never needed that before," are often heard.

6. Dysfunctional organizational structures form. Anything along the lines of silos, bunkers, or ivory towers means executives or organizations are closing themselves off from outside communication or from each other.

7. People suggest you've got your head up your you-know-what. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

8. You're overconfident -- you think everything is fine no matter what. The Grateful Dead said it best: "When life looks like easy street, there is danger at your door." When you get too comfortable at the top, look out below.

9. You don't want to "burden others" with your problems. Not wanting to appear human or flawed to others is a common sign of narcissistic or psychopathic behavior. Not a good sign.

10. You're unusually stressed. Anxious, short with people, bad-tempered, same thing. Your mind knows something's wrong and this is how it tells you you're afraid of something and you're not directly confronting the cause.

BlueChair

Thank you for sharing, Ive been giving a lot of thought to what your saying here. Not trying to presume but it sounds like your worn down because his addiction has gone on for a long time, and had waves of better and worse? I dont know right now how I will feel if that happens to me. I know there are things I can do to protect myself like keeping the focus on myself, making sure I tend to my own interest, goals. I think it must not be something I will be able to answer until that time comes. But it helps me to gain your insight, and I think about how it must be with children involved. I want to have kids in a few years but is it wrong to possibly subject them to future addiction problems, even if he makes it through this relapse. Is it ok if I know they will be provided for? or is the risk of emotional damage too much? I dont know, and I feel in a way its a place your in now weighing the bigger picture with your kids involved. Thank you for being so honest.

allforcnm

The future isn't certain for any of us even when addiction isn't involved. There are a multitude of health problems out there, not to mention car accidents, or the old standard: getting hit by a bus...its ok if you dont have all the answers today in regards as to what you want your future to look like, kids, etc. My therapist used to tell me that the human mind can only process so much at a time. It takes as long as it takes... to find our own truths.

BlueChair

Last week when I went to the counseling session we spent a little bit of time discussing denial. I showed her the list I found of behaviors leading up to denial and she liked it a lot. She suggested I make my own list up and try to identify signs just for me, so Ive been working on that. She asked why I was so worried about being in denial, did I think I was in denial ? I dont think so but I guess what worries me is I dont have all the answers for things like what will happen if he relapses once, twice or many times. what about having kids together? She said not having the answers is not denial. Knowing enough to ask the questions breaks denial.

“Have patience with everything that remains unsolved in your heart. Try to love the questions themselves, like locked rooms and like books written in a foreign language. Do not now look for the answers. They cannot now be given to you because you could not live them. It is a question of experiencing everything. At present you need to live the question. Perhaps you will gradually, without even noticing it, find yourself experiencing the answer, some distant day"

Rainer Maria Rilke

HumbleNumb

Thank you for this thread my friend, BC... I appreciate you and all the others, in your openess and honesty about this topic.

The first thing I learned when my AH and I began our recovery together over 4 years ago was the word "denial"... as one friend put it, "It ain't no river in Egypt"...

Here's been the journey for me... I don't think I was in any sort of denial when I walked in the doors at CR all those years ago... I knew we would never make a life together if something didn't change, and I was holding out for anything, just something... to change in our lives before it all went to "you know where" in a "you know what"...

Change did happen after that very first CR... and it was amazing to see how we both began to change and grow... Especially for him... and for him to be walking and talking and sober.. and HAPPY about being sober for the first time in nearly 40 years of his life! It was NO joke, and over that first year, our love grew deeper, our appreciation for one another grew stronger, and he literally became the man of my dreams right before my eyes... compassionate, loving, adoring, respectful, honest, and committed to recovery and to his faith. Needless to say, I fell deeper in love with him than I ever thought I could be... and he proposed, and I said YES! THIS man, THIS man... was who I wanted to be my husband, forever and ever... amen!

I was introduced to denial after everything in our lives started to go so very well... Trust and integrity were restored and stronger than ever, and I have literally never been happier in my entire life than I was that first year... sober, living right, loving each other, and I finally had someone I knew I could count on for anything. I often bragged how we were each other's accountability partners... yeah, right!

Early into the second year of marriage, I realized he had lied to me... and I was almost thrown off my high horse... (yes, I said almost)... I was mad, but kept quiet... and I excused away behavior that was clearly active addiction... just because "I knew we were both changed, and we had come through so much together" and "most people would give ANYTHING to have the kind of marriage we have"... and I'm sure some would.. but my reality is nothing like I thought it would be when we got married. He's changed, because of his addiction... and sadly, it has changed me a little too... (hear that? maybe its more denial knocking on my door)... I realize change has happened to both of us as a result of his choices... but I still have to take responsibility for my own reactions...

I'm a work in progress... and I'm trying... for me, and maybe for him a little too... but I know there's hope, there's always hope... and for ME (Love bears all things, hopes all things)... I LOVE him... not the man he "could" be, but the man he is... flaws and all.

allforcnm

Great post HumbleNumb. What you posted first about accepting responsibility for our own actions. That realization hit me hard at first; not proud to say it but I blamed my reactions to addiction related things on my husband; it was his addiction after all.... That part of your post just jumped out at me.. it took me a while to see my part clearly.

And the last part I quoted because it is just beautifully written and I can tell very heartfelt. Thank you for sharing.

BlueChair

((HumbleNumb))

Thank you !! Your words came at a time when I needed them.

Yesterday was a blue day, Im thinking if I surround myself with negativity then I become negative in my thinking, have to make a change. We had our family session last night and it always makes me feel better. Today i have my own session after work. I know all things work together.

((thank you))

cleaninLI

Humblenumb that was a beautiful post! I can relate to it in so many ways! My husband and I just celebrated our silver wedding anniversary. I remember for many years I used to complain about my husband "if only he was a little more ambitious, not so laid back, helped me more around the house, communicated his feelings/emotions a little more......and the list goes on".....but now after all those years of wanting to change him...mold him into my "ideal husband".....I've come to the realize that if he were all those things.....he wouldn't be himself....the man I love, my best friend.

So when you said "I LOVE him... not the man he "could" be, but the man he is... flaws and all." You reminded me of that.....so thank you!

In fact, not too long ago my husband said to me "if I knew then, what I know now.....about you and your addictions. I still would have married you because the good years out weight the bad ones." I thought that was very nice of him to say....kind of surprised me actually....because I really did hurt him deeply.

Idk about you guys, but this thread is very emotional.

hopeful4

BC...I just saw this, not sure how I missed it before, I am sorry! I would not trade any of it for anything, he gave me my children. I love them like no other beings on this earth, it is a love I have never experienced before. You are correct, his addictin has went in waves. It has been really terrible at times and then totally clean for long amounts of time. It is the fear that it can be terrible again that drives me to the anxiety. I stupidly thought I was protecting my children from even knowing what was going on. That is a joke, they are much more perceptive than I ever ever thought.

I think my answer to you is that if you want children with this man, I would make him prove he can stay clean for the long term. You also know that even after the long term he could relapse. My best advise is to understand that children cannot be around addiction, it is absolutely toxic to them. They cannot understand it in the same way you can. You are very articulate and have done so much work into addiction, their minds just don't work in that way. They look at ACTION, all the time. My answer is that it depends on your resolve and the promises you can make to yourself and to any children you may have if he relapses. I believe the best thing to do is to get out immediately if there is a relapse in the home, and believe me, it is not easy. You are constantly judging which is worse, the affects of divorce or having an addict in the home. I still am not positive of the answer. Currently my husband hardly ever drinks. I don't think that is acceptable in any way. However, I fear he will spiral out of control if I leave him. My older daughter thinks the same thing (she is 14), she voiced that to me over the weekend. She is afraid of that. My heart cracked hearing her say that because we have not discussed that before.

My mind understands addiction much more than hers does. I have had enough therapy and CR and training in addiction to know that even if he would spriral out of control, even if it lead to his own demise, that it would not be my fault. I would not blame myself, I cannot be responsible for another person. However, I know my children don't know that. So for now, I am holding still. Watching, and yes, fearing. Not for me, but for my kids. They have lost respect for him due to his own actions and that breaks my heart for them and for him, because he cannot see it.

I know my kids will be provided for. I also know their wellbeing emoationally is something you cannot put a price on or buy, and the responsibility of that is HUGE.

I hope I have not overwhelmed anyone with this post, it is alot longer than I intended. I guess I have a hard time typing out all I feel, and my feelings seem to change in waves by the day too. It helps to type it out and get it out of my head and be able to try to explain it all to someone else.

So for anyone who has suffered through reading all of this...Thank You!

I hope you all have a blessed weekend!

BlueChair

Im sorry Cleanin, and Everyone !

I had my counseling session last night, and the doctor said, she can see my mind is always working, and she wanted me to know its ok if I let it take some time off. I came up with all these interesting things my mind could do, wont share all those, but it ended with the idea sometimes we need to stop and smell the roses, or walk barefoot in the sand and feel at ease with the unusual feel sand between our toes.

Im trying to take her advice today, but will write more later.

All of your shares here give me MUCH to think about and Im grateful you've taken the time to share with me.

BlueChair

When I started this thread on denial I felt like I needed it to revisit all of the things Ive learned these past few months, and explore what I might be overlooking. I think the biggest thing was I felt like I should have done more to be prepared for a relapse, but I wasnt expecting one. I knew it could happen so there wasnt complete denial, but I minimized the possibility in my mind because it had been a long time for him. I think what my counselor said was right, its not so much Im not putting all the pieces together, its more like I cant have all the answers right now to things I havent experienced. Im still satisfied our relationship is solid, my feelings are genuine, and there is nothing inside me broken that drew me to him or his personality. Im satisfied there is nothing wrong with his personality, his addiction is only a tiny part of him.I was worried about that for a little while because Ive heard others share similiar ideas and how they were more or less in denial of their own self, what motivates them, repeating bad patterns. I had to look at all that for my own sanity. I think Ive moved past denial now, Ive turned over all my stones.