blame shifting
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 90
blame shifting
RA's been sober for 3.5 years, works a good program. Seemed ok, on the surface with his alcoholism. Mostly been good for us. He made me smile, laugh, and I kept him afloat. All of a sudden last 4 mos, I'm seeing this person I don't know. Sullen, angry, irritable. I can't do anything to make him happy. He shares nothing with me, although deep down I feel like maybe he could have relapse issues. Proud, and ego driven, so won't show a thing.
Lately he has developed a pattern of blame shifting. No matter what is wrong, it's ALWAYS my fault. He does it so effortlessly. And he runs from confrontation. I speak my mind, believe in honesty, discussing. I think it drives him crazy. He can't take my openness. He RUNS. I can't reach him.
Now we're 5 days before xmas, and he picks a fight. Definitely picks it for what I don't have a clue. He BOLTS, over nothin. GONE. I'm so sad. And hurt. Bought him so many gifts, didn't see this coming. I'm having such a hard time tryin to figure out how to handle this guy. My gut tells me he's having some relapse issues. Of course he wouldn't tell me. I love this man but am so very very tired of being on this end of things. A pattern. Emotional abuse? I know, I can't change him, only myself.
Should I give up this fight? Is this 'normal' alcoholic behavior? I don't know how to reach him. How to cope...thoughts/comments more than appreciated.
Lately he has developed a pattern of blame shifting. No matter what is wrong, it's ALWAYS my fault. He does it so effortlessly. And he runs from confrontation. I speak my mind, believe in honesty, discussing. I think it drives him crazy. He can't take my openness. He RUNS. I can't reach him.
Now we're 5 days before xmas, and he picks a fight. Definitely picks it for what I don't have a clue. He BOLTS, over nothin. GONE. I'm so sad. And hurt. Bought him so many gifts, didn't see this coming. I'm having such a hard time tryin to figure out how to handle this guy. My gut tells me he's having some relapse issues. Of course he wouldn't tell me. I love this man but am so very very tired of being on this end of things. A pattern. Emotional abuse? I know, I can't change him, only myself.
Should I give up this fight? Is this 'normal' alcoholic behavior? I don't know how to reach him. How to cope...thoughts/comments more than appreciated.
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
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I am sorry you are left with so many questions. I know how frustrating that can be!
I don't have answers, but wanted you to know you were heard. I hope you will continue to reach out for the support you need.
I don't have answers, but wanted you to know you were heard. I hope you will continue to reach out for the support you need.
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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I have no real advice. I've never experienced a relapse with my AH because he still hasn't maintained any significant sobriety. BUT the blame shifting, mood swings and secrecy do sound akin to drinking and I would say those are common symptoms of alcoholics.
I don't know that you can reach him, but your time would probably be better spent thinking about whether you want to continue being with someone who is so volatile and closed off. Hugs to you.
I don't know that you can reach him, but your time would probably be better spent thinking about whether you want to continue being with someone who is so volatile and closed off. Hugs to you.
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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I don't have answers for you either, but I can absolutely relate. It is so very frustrating to hear "but you" or "yeah but" and feeling like you are hitting your head against the wall trying to discuss things. When to give up the fight is such a personal decision only you can really know. For me personally, I just continue to pray for my HP's will and the courage to follow it. (((hugs)))
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Originally Posted by BoxinRotz 
Are you sure he's not already relapsed? I know when my husband puts distance between us, a bottle of vodka is somewhere close! That is the first red flag for me because we are so close.
Picking the fight might just be a way to get
the "alone time" and excuse for drinking.
Don't blame yourself.
I'm sorry you are going through this.
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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Many thanx to all. Maybe I'm naive, but truthfully don't think he's drinking again. We used to spend a lot of time together, but I'm working a new job, and now it's just occasional. Thats put a strain on us also.
I do have to admit that in the last few months to me he looks terrible. Looks like a man that is carrying the weight of the world on his back. And he tells me he's not sleeping through the night either. So something is def brewing.
Still, no excuse for his bad behavior. He was almost baiting me to fight with him, then turned it around and made it me. Also told me to 'shut up', which he's never done before. I called him on it, told him it was disrespectful, but he didn't respond. He 'doesn't need this sh*t'. He was NEVER this combative or angry before.
So I don't know, what are the symptoms of him either relapsing or going down that hole? Thoughts?
But here I go again, caring too much and trying to help a man who can simply turn and walk away so easily. Making excuses for the crap he does. Maybe not worth any more effort.
Thanx for listening.
I do have to admit that in the last few months to me he looks terrible. Looks like a man that is carrying the weight of the world on his back. And he tells me he's not sleeping through the night either. So something is def brewing.
Still, no excuse for his bad behavior. He was almost baiting me to fight with him, then turned it around and made it me. Also told me to 'shut up', which he's never done before. I called him on it, told him it was disrespectful, but he didn't respond. He 'doesn't need this sh*t'. He was NEVER this combative or angry before.
So I don't know, what are the symptoms of him either relapsing or going down that hole? Thoughts?
But here I go again, caring too much and trying to help a man who can simply turn and walk away so easily. Making excuses for the crap he does. Maybe not worth any more effort.
Thanx for listening.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
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well, SOMETHING is up, we know that for sure. thing is, regardless of WHAT that something is, his behavior and treatment of you are unacceptable. ok, to me as I read your post they seem unacceptable.
sure we all have our crabby moments. but this doesn't sound like a moment. maybe it's not booze, maybe it's pills or drugs? maybe it's somebody else? maybe maybe. but nothing JUSTIFIES his actions.
i'm really really sorry. it's even a worse blow when they finally DO get into "recovery" get off the booze or the dope, seem to be moving in the right direction. and then go off the rails. seems too cruel a blow.
do I understand he just up and left? wow. guess that's on him then. his choice. so be it. time to ask yourself when enough is enough. maybe take those gifts back and get YOURSELF something nice.
sure we all have our crabby moments. but this doesn't sound like a moment. maybe it's not booze, maybe it's pills or drugs? maybe it's somebody else? maybe maybe. but nothing JUSTIFIES his actions.
i'm really really sorry. it's even a worse blow when they finally DO get into "recovery" get off the booze or the dope, seem to be moving in the right direction. and then go off the rails. seems too cruel a blow.
do I understand he just up and left? wow. guess that's on him then. his choice. so be it. time to ask yourself when enough is enough. maybe take those gifts back and get YOURSELF something nice.
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Thanx Anvil. Yes, it is the cruelest blow. He was good for a long time, last couple months I don't know who I'm dealing with. There is NO talking about it. That is hard for me to understand.
I am now the ENEMY. Been feeling this way the last month. Nothing, of course, is wrong with him. How dare I question ANYTHING???? Blah blah blah, and so it goes. I wish I didn't care so strongly about this man. Never been with an A before, recovering or otherwise. I will NEVER do this to myself again. NEVER.
I was this man's rock, as most of us here on this board are. His best friend, forever. He damn well knew it. But instead he chose to give me a daily dose of emotional abuse, b/c why...He's wavering in his recovery? His job sucks and it's bringing him down b/c he can't find another? I'm an easy target? In any event, there is SOMETHING. Guess the reasons really don't matter. You're right, nothing JUSTIFIES his treatment of me. In the past, I always gave him a get outta jail free card. I used to joke with him about that, and then add, "but when do I get one"?
I'm sad and hurt. Yes, he just walked away. So mean & cruel, dismissive. Usually I call and text. I did nothing this time. It killed me, but I am trying to be strong for me.
We've been together 4 years, this is hard to fanthom. And even more horrible during the holidays. Tryin to put it altogether, but keep busy to keep my sanity.
I am now the ENEMY. Been feeling this way the last month. Nothing, of course, is wrong with him. How dare I question ANYTHING???? Blah blah blah, and so it goes. I wish I didn't care so strongly about this man. Never been with an A before, recovering or otherwise. I will NEVER do this to myself again. NEVER.
I was this man's rock, as most of us here on this board are. His best friend, forever. He damn well knew it. But instead he chose to give me a daily dose of emotional abuse, b/c why...He's wavering in his recovery? His job sucks and it's bringing him down b/c he can't find another? I'm an easy target? In any event, there is SOMETHING. Guess the reasons really don't matter. You're right, nothing JUSTIFIES his treatment of me. In the past, I always gave him a get outta jail free card. I used to joke with him about that, and then add, "but when do I get one"?
I'm sad and hurt. Yes, he just walked away. So mean & cruel, dismissive. Usually I call and text. I did nothing this time. It killed me, but I am trying to be strong for me.
We've been together 4 years, this is hard to fanthom. And even more horrible during the holidays. Tryin to put it altogether, but keep busy to keep my sanity.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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wynter---If I was a betting person...I would put my money on a relapse...it sure has the earmarks for it. Relapse has as much to do with attitude, thinking, and actions as it does with being intoxicated. same/same.
You are the one who decides how much inequity you are willing to tolerate and live with. He does exactly what he wants--without little or no concern for you.
If your concern is for him--and his concern is for him.....who is there to be concerned for you?.........(sound of crickets chirping).
I am sooo sorry for the timing...it just sucks.SUCKS. For me, the relapse cut deeper that the origional wound. It was the worst. I wouldn't wish relapse pain on my worst enemy.
It is not selfish to put yourself first.
dandylion
You are the one who decides how much inequity you are willing to tolerate and live with. He does exactly what he wants--without little or no concern for you.
If your concern is for him--and his concern is for him.....who is there to be concerned for you?.........(sound of crickets chirping).
I am sooo sorry for the timing...it just sucks.SUCKS. For me, the relapse cut deeper that the origional wound. It was the worst. I wouldn't wish relapse pain on my worst enemy.
It is not selfish to put yourself first.
dandylion
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"If your concern is for him--and his concern is for him.....who is there to be concerned for you?.........(sound of crickets chirping)."
Eegads, you nailed it. That's what we do in these R's, even though we know it's unhealthy. I'm tryin to wrap my head around the relapse thing. To me, don't think he's relapsed...yet. My gut is that he's on the verge, even though he himself may not consciously admit it.
If someone were on the verge, but not yet relapsed, would these same characteristics apply? Just asking. I know I shouldn't care. Anymore.
Eegads, you nailed it. That's what we do in these R's, even though we know it's unhealthy. I'm tryin to wrap my head around the relapse thing. To me, don't think he's relapsed...yet. My gut is that he's on the verge, even though he himself may not consciously admit it.
If someone were on the verge, but not yet relapsed, would these same characteristics apply? Just asking. I know I shouldn't care. Anymore.
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Did you know him prior to his drinking or have you just known the drinker?
Maybe it has nothing at all to do with alcohol or relapse, maybe this is just him?
People can wear a mask for a long time but eventually that mask comes off, leaving us to wonder who they really are.
Maybe it has nothing at all to do with alcohol or relapse, maybe this is just him?
People can wear a mask for a long time but eventually that mask comes off, leaving us to wonder who they really are.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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wynter---I think atalose makes a very good point.
about the relapse behavior---whether the behavior is "pre" or "post"----from your perspective, you are on the receiving end of that behavior. In my experience with my A's relapses--as soon as I saw the personality "change"---it went rapidly downhill, after that--and, then, they bolted---to begin a binge....and, blaming ME, all the way to the bar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The pattern never failed. That has been my experience.
dandylion
about the relapse behavior---whether the behavior is "pre" or "post"----from your perspective, you are on the receiving end of that behavior. In my experience with my A's relapses--as soon as I saw the personality "change"---it went rapidly downhill, after that--and, then, they bolted---to begin a binge....and, blaming ME, all the way to the bar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The pattern never failed. That has been my experience.
dandylion
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Join Date: May 2013
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
well, SOMETHING is up, we know that for sure. thing is, regardless of WHAT that something is, his behavior and treatment of you are unacceptable. ok, to me as I read your post they seem unacceptable.
sure we all have our crabby moments. but this doesn't sound like a moment. maybe it's not booze, maybe it's pills or drugs? maybe it's somebody else? maybe maybe. but nothing JUSTIFIES his actions.
i'm really really sorry. it's even a worse blow when they finally DO get into "recovery" get off the booze or the dope, seem to be moving in the right direction. and then go off the rails. seems too cruel a blow.
do I understand he just up and left? wow. guess that's on him then. his choice. so be it. time to ask yourself when enough is enough. maybe take those gifts back and get YOURSELF something nice.
sure we all have our crabby moments. but this doesn't sound like a moment. maybe it's not booze, maybe it's pills or drugs? maybe it's somebody else? maybe maybe. but nothing JUSTIFIES his actions.
i'm really really sorry. it's even a worse blow when they finally DO get into "recovery" get off the booze or the dope, seem to be moving in the right direction. and then go off the rails. seems too cruel a blow.
do I understand he just up and left? wow. guess that's on him then. his choice. so be it. time to ask yourself when enough is enough. maybe take those gifts back and get YOURSELF something nice.
^^^ this.
He's hiding SOMEthing. Could be any the things described above. To me it does sound like he's picking fights to be able to go off to do something...
I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. It's not fair when you treat someone with respect and are open with themthat they should respond like this, with such garbage.
Maybe he's not worth the pain and effort like you said, only you can decide.
Wish I had some more comforting words for you. But, we are here for you. You can always come here for support.
Wishing you inner peace and strength. Take good care of yourSELF and let him take care of him. From the looks of it he doesn't deserve you taking care of and investing so much in him. Turn that every to YOU.
Peace.
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"....works a good program."
If he did, then he would not feel justified in treating you with so little respect and for acting like an 11-year old.
One of my friends' husband has been dry without a program for about 6 years now (esophageal cancer finally made him quit).
But he takes narcotic prescriptions pills. So, often he says mean things to her, just as he did when he was actively drinking. The spiritual aspect of addictive disease, the psychological aspect, too, are not being healed. I think perhaps many dry alcoholics out there are on pills of some kind which keeps the alcoholic personality strong in them. The alcoholic personality is grandiose, self-justifying, and definitely one which projects blame onto others rather than take responsibility for one's own life and choices and moods. A petulant bully.
Just keep asking yourself the hard questions, and whatever happens, accept responsibility for your choices. That is maturity. Something very lacking in the alcoholic personality.
If he did, then he would not feel justified in treating you with so little respect and for acting like an 11-year old.
One of my friends' husband has been dry without a program for about 6 years now (esophageal cancer finally made him quit).
But he takes narcotic prescriptions pills. So, often he says mean things to her, just as he did when he was actively drinking. The spiritual aspect of addictive disease, the psychological aspect, too, are not being healed. I think perhaps many dry alcoholics out there are on pills of some kind which keeps the alcoholic personality strong in them. The alcoholic personality is grandiose, self-justifying, and definitely one which projects blame onto others rather than take responsibility for one's own life and choices and moods. A petulant bully.
Just keep asking yourself the hard questions, and whatever happens, accept responsibility for your choices. That is maturity. Something very lacking in the alcoholic personality.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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Originally Posted by wynter
Many thanx to all. Maybe I'm naive, but truthfully don't think he's drinking again. We used to spend a lot of time together, but I'm working a new job, and now it's just occasional. Thats put a strain on us also.
I do have to admit that in the last few months to me he looks terrible. Looks like a man that is carrying the weight of the world on his back. And he tells me he's not sleeping through the night either. So something is def brewing.
Still, no excuse for his bad behavior. He was almost baiting me to fight with him, then turned it around and made it me. Also told me to 'shut up', which he's never done before. I called him on it, told him it was disrespectful, but he didn't respond. He 'doesn't need this sh*t'. He was NEVER this combative or angry before.
So I don't know, what are the symptoms of him either relapsing or going down that hole? Thoughts?
But here I go again, caring too much and trying to help a man who can simply turn and walk away so easily. Making excuses for the crap he does. Maybe not worth any more effort.
Thanx for listening.
I do have to admit that in the last few months to me he looks terrible. Looks like a man that is carrying the weight of the world on his back. And he tells me he's not sleeping through the night either. So something is def brewing.
Still, no excuse for his bad behavior. He was almost baiting me to fight with him, then turned it around and made it me. Also told me to 'shut up', which he's never done before. I called him on it, told him it was disrespectful, but he didn't respond. He 'doesn't need this sh*t'. He was NEVER this combative or angry before.
So I don't know, what are the symptoms of him either relapsing or going down that hole? Thoughts?
But here I go again, caring too much and trying to help a man who can simply turn and walk away so easily. Making excuses for the crap he does. Maybe not worth any more effort.
Thanx for listening.
be seeing someone else?
I'm not wanting to worry you or borrow trouble, but one of my ex-boyfriends started picking fights with me because he wanted to justify his actions as he contemplated cheating.
"Carrying the weight of the world" and "not sleeping" perhaps guilt?
Again, I don't want to worry you but I think women have instincts that are pretty darn accurate, and if you don't think it is relapse, maybe it is something else. 1000% hope I'm wrong here, by the way.
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in my experience, they can get better at hiding relapses (for a little while, not long term), so just because he acted one way before during a relapse, that can change and he can act a totally different way upon another relapse and you might never suspect it.
also, my ex cheated too and i thought it was a relapse (similar behaviors) but he was cheating and drinking with someone else.
also, my ex cheated too and i thought it was a relapse (similar behaviors) but he was cheating and drinking with someone else.
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Atalose, I knew him prior to the drinking. In fact was his only friend while he went through a very long rehab. He's always been egotistical, but now without drinking it is magnified. He's not happy with himself, his job, so has to inflate himself for attention.
Dandy, thank you, yes, his behavior change is quite marked. I wish I could remember back to when it started, might help me figure things out a little more clearly.
"The alcoholic personality is grandiose, self-justifying, and definitely one which projects blame onto others rather than take responsibility for one's own life and choices and moods. A petulant bully."...wow, EG, you nailed it. Exactly what I'm dealing with. It's so juvenile to me. When something bothers him, he shuts down, and it's near impossible to get him to open up. I take the risk it will **** him off further when I persist in trying to discuss it. Eggshells again.
Onawa, yes, the blow up we had (over the phone) didn't warrant his actions. They were extreme, and when I looked at it later, he was baiting me for a fight. But what was going on in the last couple of days is NOT what the issue is. That's just a cover up.
Hawkeye, I do appreciate that. I have thought along those lines, but don't think that's it. Not feeling it. After talking things over with my gf, I think it's the xmas holiday coming at us. I have to attend xmas dinner with my estranged husband and kids. I'm doing it to see my kids, not the husband. I think he is very upset about it, but not sharing his feelings. He has purposely not said anything about including me in his holiday plans, which is unusual. I didn't press it, figuring we'd work it out as the weekend went by, but now I instinctively feel he is very angry with me and that is why he picked this fight. All supposition, but it's a strong gut for me right now.
All that being said, I still am of the mind it could be a teetering relapse waiting to happen, along with everything else.
His behavior still Sucks tho.
Dandy, thank you, yes, his behavior change is quite marked. I wish I could remember back to when it started, might help me figure things out a little more clearly.
"The alcoholic personality is grandiose, self-justifying, and definitely one which projects blame onto others rather than take responsibility for one's own life and choices and moods. A petulant bully."...wow, EG, you nailed it. Exactly what I'm dealing with. It's so juvenile to me. When something bothers him, he shuts down, and it's near impossible to get him to open up. I take the risk it will **** him off further when I persist in trying to discuss it. Eggshells again.
Onawa, yes, the blow up we had (over the phone) didn't warrant his actions. They were extreme, and when I looked at it later, he was baiting me for a fight. But what was going on in the last couple of days is NOT what the issue is. That's just a cover up.
Hawkeye, I do appreciate that. I have thought along those lines, but don't think that's it. Not feeling it. After talking things over with my gf, I think it's the xmas holiday coming at us. I have to attend xmas dinner with my estranged husband and kids. I'm doing it to see my kids, not the husband. I think he is very upset about it, but not sharing his feelings. He has purposely not said anything about including me in his holiday plans, which is unusual. I didn't press it, figuring we'd work it out as the weekend went by, but now I instinctively feel he is very angry with me and that is why he picked this fight. All supposition, but it's a strong gut for me right now.
All that being said, I still am of the mind it could be a teetering relapse waiting to happen, along with everything else.
His behavior still Sucks tho.
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wynter.....I know what it is like to try to "figure" him out--to rationalize; to try to explain or justify their behavior.....because of the desperate desire to hang onto the relationship.
No matter how we twist ourself into a pretzel to make to puzzle pieces fit together---reality is still reality. They are what they are. We cannot change them and we can't fix them. We have to take them as they are--or, not take them at all.
These are hard facts, I know. These have always been the reality for me. Sometimes, it has been really, really hard to accept. Sometimes we have to grieve long and hard before acceptance finally comes...that is how it has been for me.
dandylion
No matter how we twist ourself into a pretzel to make to puzzle pieces fit together---reality is still reality. They are what they are. We cannot change them and we can't fix them. We have to take them as they are--or, not take them at all.
These are hard facts, I know. These have always been the reality for me. Sometimes, it has been really, really hard to accept. Sometimes we have to grieve long and hard before acceptance finally comes...that is how it has been for me.
dandylion
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well, one thing you can change....instead of waiting to see what he does and then REACT, you could slide into the driver's seat and be proactive. take the past 4 months behaviors, and then the more recent behaviors and his bolting and determine what YOU want to see happen.
he bolts, he runs, you wait. he comes back. sort of implying that's an ok way to behave. then the hostility builds again, and next thing you know there he goes again. how YOU act next will either reinforce the pattern, or put an end to it.
IF this is all about xmas....then it is even more ridiculous.
he bolts, he runs, you wait. he comes back. sort of implying that's an ok way to behave. then the hostility builds again, and next thing you know there he goes again. how YOU act next will either reinforce the pattern, or put an end to it.
IF this is all about xmas....then it is even more ridiculous.
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