Yurt

When I woke this morning, I spent some extra time before climbing out of bed thinking about the events of the past year. After many weeks of stress from my job and at home, this was the first morning that I felt that I had enough sleep, and was actually refreshed. So, this was an appropriate time to consider my actions, how they have been affecting everyone in my life, and what I need to do to move forward.
Then, after I logged onto SR, I discovered two posts at the top of the list that were directly in line with what I had been thinking about; my own codiness and if/when to make my decisions about leaving. If this were synchronicity, then I probably would have found my answers in those posts. Not happening, but they did give more to think about, and a chance to express what I was thinking.

When it comes to relationships, I have always been behind the learning curve. Usually making poor choices, not being aware of the other person's issues and more. So, marrying an A, is probably not surprising, given my track record. Fast forward 21 years, and I am STILL behind the curve when it comes to relationships. Argh.
If you read about my involvement with my counselor friend, you might remember that I was spending time with him at the High School football games, while I watched my DD perform in the band. He showed interest in another woman that also attends, and that stirred up some conflicted feelings for me. Ultimately, I decided to continue the friendship, while respecting the fact that he is an unmarried man, free to make whatever choices that suit him. Well, we both got closer; to the point where we were in contact every day (I work with him one day per week), either by email, phone, skype, or lunches. He started making comments that made me feel like he had some serious feelings for me, yet we did not cross that line (we have shared a drinking straw; something strangely intimate about that). Then, after he went out of town for a long weekend, he came back acting completely different. Very little contact. Arms always crossed when I was near. Abrupt answers. Made me crazy! Was I able to ask him directly what had changed? Of course not. Could not approach that elephant in the room; that one or both of us had deeper feelings than just a casual friendship. No.
After 2 weeks, I mentioned in an email that I would be attending the last football game, and that perhaps I would see him there. I showed up late, as I had a horrendous day at work, and I expected to see him with other friends. Nope, he was there, waiting for me in the usual spot. We had a great time, and it was as if nothing had changed. He even invited me to his place for tea the next morning as I was dropping DD off at the High school in the morning. While there, he told me that he had applied and interviewed for another job, out of the area. Didn't get the job.
So, this could go on again, and again. I need to stop, but I am not sure how.
I actually think that he is more codie than I am. He seems to be attracted to needy women but never gets serious with any of them. I was thinking that I was the lucky one, because I got to have the occasional lunch with him, or that I was the one he spent time with when we attended events. Now I am beginning to think that I am the only one that would follow through and respond to the invitations. How sad for both of us. He deserves to have a companion that can spend more time with him than an occasional lunch. I deserve to be able to do so without guilt.
Which brings me to my other issue....my AH. One part of me is pushing to just end it already. Although, he is not at his worst at the moment, he still drinks every day (less, these last 2 weeks), and I know the other shoe will drop eventually. What am I waiting for? A good excuse? The other part wonders if I am reacting to the fact that I have a serious distraction. I know that I was here, lamenting my AH's antics before I developed feelings for my other friend, but how much of my worries are now fueled by this. I originally thought that I would wait until DD graduated from High School (1 1/2 years), and right now I feel like I am just marking time. Now AH does have his wonderful moments as well. This morning, he repotted my veggi planters that I had neglected, and performed some other outdoor chores that I had been promising to do for months. He knows that my work load is off the charts now, and just went out and did it for me this morning; with a smile.

So, here I sit, and I still don't know what to do. Can a person love two people at the same time and not have it blow up in their face? Could some of these issues be a result of the fact that I have very little warmth or intimacy at home? (nothing physical with friend either)
Can two codies really get along together?
Should I be writing for a soap opera?

I don't suppose I will receive the answers that I want to hear. I'm sure that I will be chastised, but obviously, I can't share any of this with anyone else.
If you get through this, then thank you. If you can offer me a real suggestion, then I will doubly appreciate it.

Aeryn

Well you aren't going to be judged or chastised by me....I find one of the predominent codie traits is being condescending, judgmental or chastising....so I try to recognize when I do things like that and not do it - I find sometimes it can even be done in subtle ways under nice overtones so I try to be really careful not to do it. Anyone being judging is merely trying to lose themselves in someone else's issues to avoid their own IMHO. I also don't give advice for the same reasons - I find it a more subtle way of being condescending and judgmental.

Here are my thoughts from my experience - marriage means different things to different people/couples. What it means to you and your AH is between you two...so it's not my place to say whether or not having the feelings you have is OK or not. It just is.

That said - I notice your use of the word love - so my question would be how do you know you love this person giving you the attention? How can love develop so quickly? I don't have the answers to these questions I'm just asking them..... What I'm learning is love isn't about soulmates or attraction at all - it's about some sort of genuine moment or connection...I dunno what this has to do with your situation it's just what it made me think of. I would also ask, do you really love this new person or is it easier to have someone around rather than spend time with yourself?

My personal opinion is emotional connection is far deeper and more vulnerable than physical connection so I'm not sure if the lack of physical intimacy would be much of a question for me.

I would say this is some sort of opportunity for you to learn something about yourself by really seeing what feelings are beneath it all and why things are playing out the way they are...all things that a good therapist can help with since they are trained to go deeper...I think asking fellow codies such as myself will probably not get you the answers you seek for obvious reasons. However my personal opinion (so take what you want and leave the rest) is this isn't about either guy (the AH or the new guy) it's about something inside you - without knowing anything I wonder if it's some sort of want to not be alone or maybe some childhood abandonment issues (I'm no therapist I'm just throwing things out there).

The only ESH I can give is waiting for your DD to get out of high school in my experience doesn't accomplish anything positive for DD. I knew my parents marriage was not normal as early as kindergarten (or earlier) and they were just "so sure" they'd hidden it from me. They not only didn't but I have trouble with normal relationships now and have a weekly therapy session to overcome behaviors I learned in childhood to cope that no longer apply today.

Yurt

Thank you for the thoughtful reply, Aeryn.
I guess that I do have some loving feelings toward my friend. Even when I was on ignore, I treated him with kindness and respect. We aren't as "tight" as we were before the job interview, but there is still a lot of warmth. I just really enjoy spending time with him.

I also enjoy what little time I have to spend alone. My AH is disabled, and is always at home. I have to leave the house in order to have some solitude, or wait until he has "fallen asleep on the couch." He claims that he can't leave to visit his brother in another town because DD and I wouldn't be able to manage on our own. I keep telling him. NO PROBLEM. Yet he stays. Codie as well?
I have broached the subject of moving several times with DD, but she seems to want to avoid the subject. One of her hens died this afternoon, and she asked when we would get more chicks. We have already had the discussion about no more pets, as we don't know where we might be next year. Sigh. I planned on staying that long because she is on track to receive scholarship money for college. I am worried about disrupting her life and what that might mean academically. I work as a teacher in a low income area, and I have seen what these disruptions can do. As it stands now, she is so busy, that she is rarely home. What little time she spends at the house is spent doing homework. She is truly brilliant, and I just want her to succeed. She sees a counselor at school (that is a very good friend of mine), and she told me that as long as I have her best interests in the forefront, I would know if and when it was time.
I have gone to one Al Anon meeting, but no counselor myself (ahem; except for my friend). Mostly a time issue. I spend an enormous amount of time on my job right now (new teacher). I suppose that I just need to be patient and seek appropriate guidance when I am able to do so.

dandylion

Yurt, what I do know--as a fellow human that has experienced such feelings, myself---these feelings that you have are very powerful. Trust me, they are n ot going to get "swept under the rug" very easily. These are issues that cut through to the core of a person. I consider them Big--for that reason.

It sounds, to me, like you have reached a crossroad in your life and the internal forces are beginning a shift. Like the stirrings that herald approaching adolescence or the stirrings that tell the bear that winter is approaching. Or that tell the butterfly that the cocoon will no longer contain her. Subtle, at first--but, powerful. To ignore those kinds of "message" would not be advisable.

If I were you, I would certainly attend alanon--or some support group where you can share face to face on a regular basis--and throw myself at the feet of a counselor or therapist who deals with thee kinds of issues.

You certainly are not the first woman to face such issues. I would say--more common than you think.

dandylion

Hopeworks

Our choices determine our destiny and no one will "judge" your choices as they are yours to make and clearly you are trying to figure out what path you should take.

What I found out in my journey out of my own chaotic life with my XA is that the person I was really looking for was not another mate but it was me. Not the codie, anxiety ridden me but the new me ... happy, joyous and free and living a life of freedom from sleepless nights and worrying over things out of my control.

That path was long and torturous because I kept wanting to believe the delusion and the lies and quacking that kept me imprisoned. That was my choice and I lived to regret it.

Once I started listening to the wise souls on this message board and connected in Alanon my thinking started changing and so did my brain and chemicals that produce "feelings". My feelings of "love" for my XA began to become more logical and realistic and I learned to set boundaries and goals.

Our situations are different and I had no children involved but my sincere advice to you is make Alanon a priority even if it means seeing less of your "come here go away" friend. If you can find a counselor that you can start seeing on a regular basis for YOU... it is life changing!

It brings so much clarity and things just started to sort themselves out in my head where all the problems were all the time! The XA was just what I treated my codie disease with! LOL.

Show me your checkbook and calendar and I can tell your priorities... I was busier than a cat on a hot tin roof but once I dedicated myself to MY recovery I started to see a bright light and once I got there... I was out of the cave and the darkness.

Hope that helps... and now that I have my act together I find the thought of even dealing with a member of the male species rather distasteful. Maybe that will change but they sure aren't a necessary item in ones life for happiness! And I'd rather stick pins in my eyes that be attempting to raise a child, work, keep house with an A lying around and juggle another guy too! Oh my....you must be tired!

LifeRecovery

Yurt-

I also was struck by the same two posts you were this morning. What a great dialogue, and this one just adds to it.

My only concern reading your post (and remembering your previous one about this gentleman) is this. It feels to me that for someone who is self-professing that they have struggled with relationships in the past, being in two complicated ones feels like the making for craziness. It feels like either relationship has the potential to compromise you, yourself and your recovery. Reading about both of them feels overwhelming to me (and I am only getting it through the computer).

I guess in other words how are you feeling about your relationship with you right now?

Yurt

Yes, to everyone...I am stressed and overwhelmed by all of this. Add to that, the fact that my job is a huge stressor as well, at the moment. I have actually lost over 15 pounds in the last 2 months. BTW, it is not as if I am trying to decide between AH and new guy. New guy may not even be right for me when all is said and done. He has is own set of idiosyncrasies that I find endearing...at the moment. And he is a few years older than I am. I do believe that if/when things are finished with AH, I will spend some time alone. I hope to continue my friendship with "new guy", although I don't know at what level. He may not even be interested in anything deeper than "casual".
So, Al Anon for now...Therapist at some point in the future.

dandylion

Dear Yurt, as a medical person--15lbs. IS a significant wt. loss over this period of time. You are right to be concerned about it. PLEASE, take care of yourself.

dandylion

stella27

Yurt, how interesting.

I have ANOTHER male friend (not the one from earlier today) who was always so attentive and kind and supportive, and as soon as I became available (fully divorced), guess who became Mr. Arms-crossed-and-aloof?

And his next "project" was a woman who will never be healthy because she lives for the drama. He complains about her while he continues to rescue her.

And I found a sliver of paper with something that I wrote down from SR over a year ago, and I don't know who said it, but it was written just for you (my apologies to whichever wise member actually said this):

"I wasn't waiting for an aha! moment. I was waiting for something BIG. Something that would scream at me "You have permission to leave now."

That was a more self-destructive place to be because sometimes each tiny step toward unacceptable was only a small step away from what I had been accepting, so what might have seemed BIG ten years ago, at the beginning, didn't have much of an impact, ya know, because we took tiny steps to get there."

Let that sink in a little. It's very, very prescient.

Yurt

Stella27,
Yes, I think I see a pattern. I got so caught up in the mixed signals, that I didn't quite see the whole picture. And this is the second time that my feelings have been bruised by this fellow. It feels uncomfortably a bit like the intermittent chicken post from a while back. And of course, I have felt so embarrassed and guilty about having these feelings for him, that I haven't been able to talk to anyone about it. No way to put it into perspective.
And yes, I probably am waiting for something big to happen with AH. I keep thinking back to all of the awful memorable events that we shared and wonder why I didn't do something at one of those moments. Of course many of them were before I had my degree and current job. I did not feel that I could be self-sufficient yet. Now that I am, I guess that I am a bit fearful. So I wait.
I am still working on me, and sorting out the debris in my life. It will come.

FeelingGreat

Hi Yurt, your counsellor friend sounds to me like he won't be available ever. It reminded me of a priest in the Sopranos who would cozy up to the parish ladies, taking the relationship almost to the brink, but using his priesthood as a shield he could hide behind. I bet if you brought everything out in the open with your friend he would retreat fast. He's done you a favour by pulling back earlier, as it seems to have made you more cautious.
As for your marriage, it seems you have good reasons for staying (DD), but you will know if it gets unbearable soon enough.

dandylion

Yourt, I don't think this is really about this other guy (even though you have strong feelings). He is merely a player in the drama. This is really about you--deep inside.

I'm just saying.....

dandylion

Ruby2

Yurt, this other guy might have endearing qualities but I would think that continuing to spend time with him in any capacity will only cause pain to you in the end. It is like playing with fire.

When things were really, really awful with my AH I relied upon and cried on the shoulder of a man who is a friend. He wanted more than I was willing to give but I found myself taking advantage of him emotionally and am ashamed of that. He got sucked into the alcoholic drama. He is still a friend but at a distance. And I don't burden him with any of the ongoing crap. I set boundaries for myself because I knew that continuing to meet with him or see him would be bad for both of us because I didn't need to complicate my life further and he deserved better. And he has found a lady friend with who he is quite happy and who suits him very well.

I have been involved with other men, prior to meeting my AH who pulled the "come here/go away" crap and it was always such a mind trip because you never knew which end was up. It wreaked havoc on my self esteem and was torturous causing nothing but pain because I was always asking what i had done or didn't do to cause whatever.

Good luck. Stay strong.