ladyscribbler

OK, so I've read through Quackers- archives and all. But what about us codies? When we say 'If you do/don't do x, I'll do y', and then we don't do "y", is that our version of a quack?
I've been thinking about this quite a bit since my run in with AB's mom. Her H has been sober attending AA for 20+ years. BUT, he became a hoarder, basically replacing alcohol with hoarding. She never attended Alanon or sought any help for herself, because the drinking was "his problem". So she is still massively codependent, both on him and her adult sons (who are both alcoholics). When I left she went ballistic, threatening me, screaming and cursing, calling me names (all in front of my boys). But I didn't react, even when she snatched my youngest son out of my arms and tried to leave with him. I took him back from her and told her to get out of my way. Because I knew she was just quacking.
I myself quacked frequently when still in the throes of living with an active A .
So do we all do it? Have you?
I told my A that the next time he was drunk and injured himself to the point of needing medical attention (which has happened several times) that instead of calling 911, I would stand there and watch him die. Is that quacking, or a boundary? Or is there something really wrong with me? I meant for it to be a boundary.
If I hadn't left I suspect (knowing myself as I do) that I would have followed through, with a cold-blooded resolution to keep myself out of trouble (pretending to know nothing of his injury when asked, and even going so far as to practice my "sad face" in a mirror). I have an appointment at the VA next week and mean to seek mental health help for the anger that I have been tamping down. When I was in Iraq, we used to call it "The Rage"- the knowledge that you can kill someone (or at least watch them die) without really caring too much.
Wow. This got much longer than I intended. Thanks for your patience in reading.

Ruby2

In those dark parts of our mind we quack. When we are too tired to enforce boundaries we have set. When we have given up on what we said what we would do for the day.

I think it all comes down to just trying to be in control and stronger but not having the energy and just giving up.

My AH quackery a bunch of times tonight but I gave in because I am tired and want to get some sleep. "Give me twenty bucks" because his drug dealer ripped him off. That is not my problem but I want to get sleep.

FireSprite

Yes, I think I am completely guilty of quacking in the past..... and I try to identify it when its happening now so that I can stop myself.

For me, examples of quacking would be when I say things like, ' this is the last time I'm dealing with xxxxx' or exclamations that include the words 'never' and 'always'. I found that when I am speaking in absolutes like that that I'm really just reacting emotionally out of the sense of powerlessness over the situation. RAH does the same thing, if I'm upset at how much he charged on a credit card without giving me a heads up, he immediately into his 'then I'll never use a charge card again, ever!' Act. It's a ridiculous statement and it's akin to an adult temper tantrum. So one of our Recovery Rules is that we are not allowed to speak in absolutes. When we are arguing and those phrases come up, I call a timeout ask for a rewind on the play and ask it to be put it into different words.... it really changes the tone and helps me see the difference between my quacks and my true boundaries.

m1k3

I think one of the hardest things for me to do was to learn what boundaries really are. Boundaries are for me. They define unacceptable behavior and what my plan is for what I will do when the boundary is crossed. They have nothing to do with anyone else. A good example is I will not ride in a car were the driver is impaired. I don't have to tell the driver the reasons all I have to do is find another form of transportation.

Anything else is a form of control where I am trying to change someone else's behavior. It is not my place to do that and besides it never really works anyway. They will only change when they are ready to change.

Your friend,

atalose

In May I finally put some duck tape around my quacker and stopped quacking and took positive action for myself by removing myself from witnessing a self destructive addict.

I think I believed my quacking worked because when I would threaten to leave he’d jump on the recovery wagon and stay there for a long period of time. But this time around was much different for the both of us. I calmly told him it’s either rehab, detox some kind of help other then your own will or I pack my things and leave. He told me “at this time I’d have to chose the pills”. So I packed he then panicked he begged and pleaded then got nasty but I kept on going right out that door.

I like to think I finally ACCEPTED that in fact I DO NOT have any special quacking skills that make people do what I’d like them to do. I have AWARENESS today that the words of the addict mean little more then manipulation for the moment. My ACTIONS took me away from witnessing the horror of an addict in self destruct mode with no ability on my part to do a damn thing.

Ruby2

RAH does the same thing, if I'm upset at how much he charged on a credit card without giving me a heads up, he immediately into his 'then I'll never use a charge card again, ever!' Act. It's a ridiculous statement and it's akin to an adult temper tantrum.

I love this because it is so true. "I'll never do x, y, z again" if you let me skate on it this time. because you are so awesome. I hear it from my 8 year old and I hear it from his 38 year old father. My AH. I understand it more coming from the 8 y.o.

BlueSkies1

My version of "quacking" I suppose is focusing on someone else's problems when I have enough of my own that need attention.
It's even mind boggling to me how I do that. I have important things to take care of, that need my attention, NOW.
Whatever do I accomplish by diverting my attention to someone else's problem instead of taking care of my own business?

ladyscribbler

@Mike- thanks for the great definition of what boundaries are and are not. I need to keep reminding myself that it's "all about me", as they say.

@atalose- detachment has definitely become easier with several hundred miles separating us. I was trying to maintain cordial relations and keep him posted on our son, asking for money to help out with winter coats, etc, but he truly isn't interested in anything that would impede his ability to drink, which includes financial support for his son. Sad, but I'm taking legal action since being cordial failed to yield results.

fourmaggie

I so LOVE THIS! thanks!!

healthyagain

Yeah, I am sure we quack.

For the first few years, I had been quacking. It was immature and whiny of me to say those stupidities. Gosh, I was quacking more than my AH. And I did think that I could change him, that love would change him.

hopeful4

I have been quacking for years, I can see it now, the other day it just hit me. I had nothing to say when I came home to a drunk. Normally I would have ranted and raved...Quack...Quack. This time I grabbed by little girl and walked out the door. Not much to say the next days either except to tell him something inside me has changed, I can feel it within myself that I will not be doing this anymore. I did not give any ultimatiums, I did not school him on how he needs to get his crap straight. Just said I can feel it is changing for me. I did not hide his keys, hide medicines, just walked out the door, purse and child the only things I worried about. I realize if he would drive away or do something stupid to himself that would be his actions, not mine and I have no ownership in something like that. Would it be horrible and painful? Yes. Would it be anyone's fault but his own? Nope.

I left until his sister got off work then she came and got him and I went home with my kids. I told him he could not be there under the influence, I made him spend the night with her. I have not done that for three years. I told the kids the truth, no covering up for his bad behavior. You know what, my kids and I made the most of it. We did not sit around and cry, we just did our own thing and we were ok. He did come back with promises the next day. I made him talk to the kids himself. He is doing ok right now but I know it won't last and I am sure they do too.

I guess the thing is now that I have made this decision you have to wait for the shoe to drop so to speak. Will it? I am sure so. It's the waiting I hate, I am one of those people who once I have made up my mind to move on something I want to do it. In the mean time I am still going to go to counseling with him because he wants to and so do I, it cannot hurt. I am also going to open my own bank account and do some things to prepare myself and try to decide what lawyer I want to use in case I need to do so. That type of thing.
I am shocking myself but this is how it truly has become. I guess by typing this I can see I am making progress and that does feel good. I know I am not quacking this time because I have not really told anyone this except my mom and sister (for my own planning and safety and that of my children)and not him. Before it was attempted threats to get him to change. I did not see that then but I do see it now. Surprise, Surprise....it never worked.

May God keep watch over all of us.

jessicajoe

I've reached a point where I consider my quacking in a slightly different way. Its not so much the "nonsense" like my A's, or even when I say things I don't mean or won't follow through on.
I know its a different context but I now consider myself quacking when I "take the bait". When he wants my opinion on something that should be his business and at first I say "well that's for you to decide" then can't help myself giving him a big list of why he should or shouldn't do something.
Or when I hold off and hold off and then end up asking the "how many?" or "how much?" questions.
In my head a voice is saying "go on girl quack quack quack"

Charmed3

Just had the same thoughts myself. I have recognized his quacking for what it is for a long time and then started to be aware of my own type of quacking.
I bought a little bathtub rubber ducky and put a piece of tape around his nose. My phone always sits on the counter and now I put it next to ducky so if I pick the phone up when he calls it reminds me to not or at least limit my quacking.

LightInside

I like that idea, Charmed.

Recently I made a post where I said, "If there's a codie version of quacking, I just did it. I will call it squawking." For me, what I meant was that I'm complaining and blaming the A for all of his sick behaviors. Yes, his behaviors are hurtful. They're even wrong according to MY set of values. Still, he has his life to live and his own HP that he may or may not be listening to. I have my own that II really DO want to be guided by.

I recently saw a very exaggerated version of this with a person who I really thought just wasn't ready to hear any of the stuff about focusing on ourselves. This person was the partner of an A and just would NOT Istop complaining about APartner. "Ssquuaaaaaawwk squawk squawk squawk squawk. A is so bad. A is so wrong. A won't help me. A only loves alcohol/pot/crack/smack."

The thing is that venting and finding people who can identify or relate are important, but we can't get stuck on those. We know why too.

pravchaw

Quacking is a stage we All go through. Because no one gives us a manual to learn about addiction. It slowly dawns on us that our qualifier is addicted. Then we go through a process of grieving. Quacking is essentially anger and bargaining. We stop quacking when we accept (step 1).

I am a stock investor. The best way to learn investing is to lose money. You learn little from your winning positions, except hubris. You only learn from your losses. You learn from pain and humility. I learnt most of my investing lessons in the depth on the 2002 and 2008-09 bear market.