jaynie04

You are so sweet, those words slay me. I have heard them so often and underneath I think, I am so not sweet, I just don't know how to be authentic. I was in a group of people in recovery doing psychodrama. Different roles came up and we had to assign people in the group the role we felt they would fit best. We didn't know much about other in real life, just a bit that we had learned in therapy. I was chosen as the person people would most like to have as a pet, "because I was sweet". Lord, that's 10 more years on a shrink's couch.

I believe I am kind, and empathetic. I don't believe I am sweet. To me that is a comment on the fact that I am not authentic. A big part of being an alcoholic for me was creating a life where I could be isolated, I never really understood why. Being social became more and more exhausting. It got a lot worse in the last few years. We talk a lot about social anxiety here. Of course I have social anxiety, my outside doesn't match my inside. To be assertive and clear would free me up. Instead I smile and stuff things down and that is a huge set up.

I owe a lot of people phone calls. A lot. I don't return phone calls or emails and I wait too long so that by the time I do call I am apologetic. Then I overcompensate and end up staying on the phone for 3 hours because I feel like I owe something. For the past few years if I had to make one of those coming from behind I owe something phone calls I would pour a honking glass of wine. It becomes a horrible cycle. The more I isolate and disappear the more explaining I have to do, people get curious, they don't understand where you went. What would they say if I said I didn't go anywhere, I was sitting at home in my closet drinking.

Now I am hobbling around without my crutch. I can't keep pleasing, it feels awful. Most of my friends have no idea where I have been or what I have been through, nor does my family apart from my husband. I don't want a big deal made out of it. But it goes back to being authentic.

I started writing this on another thread but didn't want to hijack it. We talk about not sweating the small stuff. I think I don't, I let everything roll off my back, after all, "I'm sweet". Then I swing wildly and pull the rug out from people, and this sweet girl feels trapped, feels the expectation of being something that she projected she was, but she's not. And I get resentful of them for simply buying what I was selling. I think it is my biggest challenge in sobriety. Finding my voice, knowing that people aren't always going to agree with what I have to say. This saccharine persona has gotten a lot worse in the last 5 years. My people skills are shot. Being here has helped. I see healthy negotiation and opposing opinions expressed and I think I am remembering how to say what I mean.

fini

i get it, jaynie.
i don't hear those words often, because my not-so-sweet other stuff comes through loud and clear, but whe some don't know me well and "you're so sweet" gets thrown at me, i hear it as a person not seeing me at all, and as a kind of box i'm put into and an almost prescription for the future: the person will now expect me to be "sweet" rather than authentic.

in all likelihood, the person saying it thinks no such things and might really be talking about some things you've done or said as being sweet...but expressing it the "you're so sweet" way.
in fact , "you're so _______ (fill in the blank) pretty much always shuts down further conversation.

hm....so much more prevalent among women...don't hear one guy saying to another "you're so sweet" a whole lot
hm again...if i were to ask, i bet a lot of people would say this is meant as a compliment.
when i point out otherwise, it's "you're so difficult". "you're so picky". "you're so easily offended" "you're so defensive".
truth is, i'm all of those things and more.
what a wonderful mix most of us are!

...the person people would most like to have as a pet,

this? this would **** me off endlessly. very untherapeutic for anyone to be voted that. what a horrid category!

difficult Margit greets you, jaynie.
wow, did that get a reaction going here

jaynie04

[QUOTE=fini;4220840]i get it, jaynie.
i don't hear those words often, because my not-so-sweet other stuff comes through loud and clear, but whe some don't know me well and "you're so sweet" gets thrown at me, i hear it as a person not seeing me at all, and as a kind of box i'm put into and an almost prescription for the future: the person will now expect me to be "sweet" rather than authentic.

Wow, I love that....a prescription for the future. I never thought of it that way but absolutely. That puts me in a box, and boy do I remember what they expect of me. That is a huge help! Thank you!

Mizzuno

okay. I hear you on this, but what if being sweet is what they see in you? Is this not up to the person that has encountered your spirit? Is it that you feel there is this person inside that is not being let out, and she is not "sweet"?
Allowing your voice to shine through is a lesson for all of us. Finding the way to speak up and not run a glaze of sugar over everything. So, I get it or maybe I don't.

soberhawk

Being sweet can be rather close to pleasing, I would appreciate that in dog - It is a good quality for pets.

I think some people have a very flexible ego and easily get overwhelmed by their surroundings, they can come across a sweet or pleasing. It is not unauthentic. I see it more to misquote carlottas signature – some people expand tremendous energy to know what they feel and want, while it comes very natural to others – it does probably come to easy to some.

I am not sure such things can or should be changed but we should all recognize when our “strengths” work against us and when they work for us.

I have a least changed my view on what I want to change and what I accept – there are qualities in a “flexible ego”. I try to recognize when it is making problems for me though.

Dee74

I used to rail against being called sweet too Jaynie...

I used to think can't you just see I'm scared to to say no, scared to rock the boat, scared that people won't like me if I speak honestly?

After I got sober I worked on all that stuff too...it didn't take a day or a week, or a month...it took years...but I gradually found the courage to be me.

I get the odd non fan now lol - but most people still tell me I'm sweet.

Go figure.

Maybe with all that self loathing I was a bit too hard on myself?
I think you might be too?

It was brutal sure but I'm not sure it was any more honest a picture of me than the pollyanna stuff other people thought.

The truth lay somewhere on the middle, and depended on the day, how I felt, what else was going on etc.

We're all imperfect. I found a kind of peace in accepting that

D

jaynie04

Dee, I hope with time to have the clarity that you and so many of the other posters have. Thank you (and everyone who has commented) for taking the sting out of something that was meant to be kind but rattled my cage. Thank you for putting into words what I could not. I hope there comes a day when I say yes because I want to whilst knowing I could say no if I had to.

Mirage74

My family does this to me (sometimes other people have too). " Mirage, you're this or you're that. You're not like this or that. " It makes me want to yell, "YOURE WRONG". Like you said, I interpret it as a way for people to try to pigeon-hole you so you conform to how they want you to act. Furthermore, if someone who has labeled you as "sweet" suddenly saw you yelling and screaming at someone, they would act shocked and bothered, and say "I can't believe you acted that way!". As if every human being doesn't have it in them to act sweet or nasty, nice or mean, joking or serious, etc at any given time.

I'm glad you brought this up, bc it's a quality in people I really dislike. My favorite people are those that form no preconceived notions about me and allow me to be who I am. I once heard that the best complement you can give someone is seeing someone for who they really are.

alphaomega

Oh yes. I drank myself into oblivion because I couldn't say no. No, I don't want to go make small talk at a neighborhood gathering where everyone is acting so fake I want to yak. No, to my narcissistic mother who gets outwardly upset if I don't invite her to go to a movie with my husband and I, or on vacation with us, or spend every Sunday with her for the rest of my life. No, to people I know are absolutely taking advantage of my good nature.

Early in this round of therapy, I was telling my therapist how I was rising above this, and trying to cope with that, and blah blah blah, thinking I was being all zen master. As she looked me square in the eye and asked "And how is that all workin out for you ." I was like - excuse me - whhaaaaaaaaaat ? Como ? I'm trying to be all Dali Lama over here and you are pushing me off the cliff ?

It's all about boundaries. I think in alcoholism we blow out what little boundaries we have. Especially as women, we tend to over nurture and people please, ad nauseaum. And because it is the antithesis of what we are often really feeling which is. "F you and the horse you rode in on" we drink to make it sting a little less. And then when that stops working, as it always freaking does, we are left holding the empty bottle and staring in the mirror and thinking, how did I get here ? Then the days so by, and the liquor holds us down and literally puts a cork in us.

But once you shake that bottle, look out because it's volatile and explosive. Ain't no where for it to go, but out.

So let it out bizatch. Scream, holler, punch a pillow, kick a wall.

Tear it all down, so you can rebuild it, this time with YOUR definition of boundaries.

jaynie04

Thanks Mirage, that just hit me between the eyes. My mother is the worst at doing that and it drives me crazy. When she talks about me or my brothers she does it in a way that doesn't allow for wiggle room. She will hold court when we have a gathering telling anyone who will listen, "Jaynie's NEVER been a good cook, I always told her she's the entertainment when we have a pahhty." (she's from Boston). She could be sitting there eating a perfect souffle that I had made while she recants this line for the 9hundreth time.
It's her story and she's stickin' to it. She does the same thing to my brothers.

I never thought to drawn the line from growing up with a rigid, domineering mother to that result. I hate seeing animals in cages, I have a truly physical reaction to it, and I just realized that that is likely part of it too. And like you I tend to gravitate towards people who are tolerant and open minded. Thanks Mirage!

Mirage74

Sure thing, glad it hit home. Yea, my mother is like that. I think people, especially those close to us, like to use labels. It seems it's a form of control. Such as, if someone says "you're sweet" or "you're not a cook", it's less of a description than an order.

A few years ago I developed this habit. If someone said , "Mirage, you're so (whatever)", I just respond "well, thanks, sometimes I can be."

soberhawk

I agree that some people use it to dominate, to define others and put them in a box so to speak.

I am not sure your friends were doing that.

I can come across as pleasing, what I am not. I did fight that a lot as younger – it was not a very male thing to be. I could give some psychological analysis of why that is, I am not sure I will do that.

I think some fundamental aspects of ones personality are difficult to change – I do not see it as very important anymore. I will catch up on if someone is trying to dominate me, but it is not natural for me to react on it – but I have no problems handling it when I notice it.

jaynie04

AO, I find it so interesting that even in cyberspace we gravitate towards what feels familiar. Both of my parents were narcissists, and even at 78 and 88 they still are, what happened to mellowing with age? That coupled with 12 years of the nuns....god!! My mother has the "I'll be ok....."disappointed tone down to a science. A true science, the CDC should have it listed under infectious diseases.
Getting sober has had an extra layer in it for me because my mother has 36 years of sobriety. There is no way on earth I will ever tell her I am in recovery, otherwise my sobriety will become attached to her. The pronoun "we" has been expunged from any dialogue I will ever have with my mother. Any accomplishment I have had she has attaches herself to, we this, and we that. If I try to distance myself, she pulls the victim.

You are spot on. This is very old and runs very deep for me. I was taught that I was responsible for making the most important person in my life as a child happy or sad from the time I was born. Knowing that and being able to fix it are two different things, and like Dee said I don't think it is going to happen overnight. At least we are out of the starting gate!

Mirage74

Yea, I should say some people aren't doing what I described, some are genuine. We have to decipher for ourselves which is which.

Jaynie, you should check out the Family & Friends section, if you haven't already. There are a whole bunch of threads focusing in growing up in a dysfunctional/alcoholic family.

LadyBlue0527

I am consistently amazed at the awakenings and the growth that happens for people on this board. Good going Jaynie, that was so good to read!

instant

I think over time in recovery we can find ourselves and become better at being present with others. For me that means at times I readily show my vulnerability, I reveal myself more, I can be assertive without getting worked up and cranky.

This didn't happen for me overnight- but I think it is a natural process which comes when I stopped poisoning myself and took the time to develop. Just over two years in now- I realise more and more it is easier to accept others when I can accept myself

Mizzuno

I get it now. Okay, it is the same for me when people call me strong, aggressive, loud, dominant. One person the other week said that I would be the "leader of all the Alley cats." I was like "Well, I am not sure if I want to be living in a Alley or be the leader of the cats in the Alley"
So, these words "Your so strong" in reality makes me feel like I need to tone it down and I should be someone else. I cant though. I am who I am. I have the belief in myself to not let others tear me down, and I guess this is why I speak up for myself. Which in turn has led some people to believe that I am a dominant Bleep.
Am I on the right track here?
So, you are sweet and I am a cold hearted Bleep........ Labels, words, preconceived ideas about others. These descriptions do not define who we are. We are perfectly imperfect. I am also soft, caring, kind, giving, compassionate.....etc.

soberhawk

Pleasing people can be very dominant in their own way

I agree we should not put each other in box's or force people to be a certain way. This is in particular important as a parent, you should not force a particular image on your children.

That said – I have been tested several times on what my strengths and weaknesses are personality vice, mostly professionally. I find that very useful.

I think in many ways that childhood cooping mechanism will stay as primary motives throughout our lives, in my case it has at least. We will of course also evolve other strengths. I do not fight that anymore.

Something I want to change other things I accept – I depends on whether I find it is influencing my quality of life.

Some people are more assertive than others, that is fine.

I do not see any reason to only focus on what we are less good at, we should also appreciate our primary motives.

soberhawk

I think I have been hijacking your thread Jaynie and you are so sweet you let me do it.

It is just sometimes when I read people that are fighting some aspects of their personality, whether they also have considered the strengths the lies in same aspects.

I am not writing more here, it is also very, very late.

Take care guys.

Bebetter

Jaynie - I feel a lot like you. I don't speak my opinion very much in social settings because I'm already uncomfortable, and I don't like to get involved in debate or argument because I'm easily overwhelmed. I see many sides to all issues, and have never seen the world in black and white. It's interesting that you wrote this post today because I was just journaling this afternoon about a lot of the same stuff. I feel like people perceive me as bland, meek, a little socially awkward... because I don't say a whole lot in conversations. I THINK a whole lot, but never know how to word what I want to say because I'm super sensitive about making sure I say things that are non-offensive. That gets in the way of me feeling like I'm being authentic, because there are thousands of times a week (it seems), that I want to say something to someone like "I can't believe you let your kid watch [this or that] tv show." or "Stop complaining about not losing weight when you're eating that cake." It's like I have no finesse. No middle ground. I can't say these things, so I say something really vacuous or nothing instead, making me feel like I'm never my true self in public.

But I realized today that this is me. I need to work on this part of me - teach myself the ability to say things with grace and truth, feel like I'm my authentic self in public without being the base a$$hole that I am inside, sometimes. I'm also a really caring and sensitive person, and I think it's okay to be that too - some people need to be called on their insensitivities.

And finally, I remember my therapist and I often tackling the topic of forming a crystallized identity, because that was a big issue with me. I bend with the wind too often, even when there are things that are important to me. He made me look at myself and ask myself "What is the sword you will die on?" Meaning, what is the issue that you would lay your life down for. You can't be passionate about everything (I know people like this, and they are annoying and underinformed...), but you can search yourself for the few things that matter most to you, and when you are confronted with opposing forces, whether it's debate among friends, an expert's idea, or whatever - you fall on that sword and lay it down the way you see it.

I still haven't figured out what my swords are. My relapse into alcohol all those years ago didn't help me grow in that direction. I hope we both get there in our sobriety.