ILuvMe

I didn't know where else to go to get this information, but hopefully someone can be of assistance here. My best friend has been in a relationship with an alcoholic for about 5 years. She knew very early on in the relationship that he was an alcoholic, but chose to stay with him once she became pregnant with her son. I've been present several times to witness his antics when he drinks. She threatens him time and time again with leaving, but never really follows through. He promises to quit drinking if she'll stay with him. She then returns to him, he stops drinking for a few days and shortly returns to old habits. I've watched this relationship from the outside for it's entirety and I feel completely helpless as I sit by and watch my friend in a relationship that she is clearly unhappy with.

A few days ago, he broke his promise once again and revealed that he had been drinking while she was gone. I thought she would finally see that he wasn't going to stop drinking, but she's giving him another last chance.

I find myself frustrated and hurting for her at the same time. But at the same time, I'm not the one going through it and I imagine that things feel even worse for her. I want to be there for her if she needs me, but I don't really know how many more times I can hear about her putting herself through this. I feel compelled to say something but I'm afraid of saying the wrong thing and I don't want her to feel like I'm trying to control her. I'm just wondering if anyone who's been in a relationship with an alcoholic can offer me any advice on what I can do for her? How can I be a good friend in this situation? Any insight would be appreciated.

firebolt

So sorry - and so sad for you to watch!

I don't think there's much you can do. You can be there for her when she needs you through the tough times, and support her in taking care of herself only, because the truth is that there is nothing she can do to change him - only herself.

If her situation is negatively affecting YOUR life or happiness, there might come a day where you have to say "I have to remove myself form this situation because it it too painful for me to watch or be a part of. I'll be here for you if and when you ever need help getting away for good."

Good luck - I imagine that it's as despairing to watch someone you love love an alcoholic as it is to love an alcoholic themselves.

dandylion

ILuvMe---You are in a difficult position. I can only tell you what I would do---I would have to finally be honest with her and tell her that it is too painful to watch her set herself up for pain--time and time again. I would as her to agree that "we" not talk about the relationship any more---we can talk about anything else in the world but that. If she is really a friend to you, she will honor this. If she is just using you as a sounding board--she may drift away. time would tell.

Also, I would strongly suggest that she attend alanon and, even, perhaps join this forum.
I can only see that it would help. You might offer to attend alanon with her. I believe that you would qualify because you are a friend of someone being affected by alcoholism.

Good luck in this difficult circumstance.

dandylion

Katiekate

Maybe you could both got to al anon together, I believe it may be just as helpful to you as it is to her.

Sounds so hard.

Katie xo

Leftover

This situation has happened in my family. The friendship ended. It was one-sided and based on alcoholic complaints. I'm sorry that you may lose your friend, but the circle of destruction from this disease can be huge. Better not to be taken down that path. You can do nothing to change her behavior or his, for that matter. Be honest with her about how you are feeling. Make no judgements about her behavior. Perhaps when she is strong enough to detach from him, you two will renew your friendship. I'm sorry you have had to deal with the effects of alcoholism. Be strong.

thislonelygirl

Iluvme.

I could be your bestfriend.
As you tell her story I hear my own.
The thing is ...sadly . She knows whats going on or could go on.
She knows everything you could tell her. Shes not crazy or confused.
She wants the man she loves. .the father of her child and she holds on to hope.
Yes I agree...your treading on a slippery slope. I know because like I said I could be your friend and one thing was for certain I wanted to pretend everything was ok. I wanted what every other woman had (a normal loving relationship) even if I knew mine wasn't. ...I so badly wanted it to be that the fantasy of it was close enough. To leave would to admit defeat, ,embarrassment and the end to the Man I WANT him to be. The end to the family I wanted to have.
If another person brought down the wall I was trying to create...shook me to see EXACTLY what was going on and how unhealthy it was. I felt a need to fight or flight
Your friend wants you to be her friend ...she wants to whine to you but I dont know if shes ready to face anything more than that.
Be easy with her and the next time she talks to you about his drinking suggest a girls night out ...or a simple library visit on alcoholic literature and an alanon meeting.
Make it about her doing it for her. Not about him. Put him out of your head. Dont look at him like the problem. Dont even talk to her about how he is the problem and a loser and anything else. Dont say shes the problem either. Simply tell her that there is information out there. Support out there where she can be healthy regardless if he drinks or doesnt. There are tools and people that would benefit HER and that as her friend you will support her path to recovery.
In the end ....the alcoholic is in control of only himself and the loved one only herself.
This gives her so much more from one friend to another. What he does or doesnt do is irrelevant andbhow you feel about him or their relationship is irrelevant. Herself and decisions however are not

thislonelygirl

I also want to add that she may have known about his drinking but normal people dont know about alcoholism. She probably thought she could change him or he would soon change himself.
Hard truth...it doesnt work that way. A lesson shes had to learn. Time and time again

BlueSkies1

Send her here!
Write down soberrecovery friend and family on a piece of paper or email it to her.
Tell her we are the people she needs to talk to start to learn ways to deal with her pain.

She needs to vent to you to get the poison out. If your time together focuses too much on that, then tell her ok, you can talk about him, 20 minutes, and then the rest of the time is for us to talk about and enjoy other things. If you need more time to vent about him, go to that site I gave you.

That too will help her see the obsession within herself, how sick it is, and how it affects you.
I've been there. I've ranted and raged to friends for a couple hours, unable to stop even if it had been requested I do so.
We have to get the poison out. Send her here to do it.

Hammer

ILuvMe, sounds like you have a good heart, but let me see if I am tracking this correctly?

So they have their "dance" . . . . . and that bothers you?

Just asking so I can understand the What and Why of you in this.

Sort of one of those Fix You First questions.

It seems their dance is working for them?

When it no longer does, one or both will quit.

So what can we do or be done for you?

honeypig

Seems like there's a variety of possible good choices here. In your shoes, I think I might use a combination of ALL of them!

First, I would offer her the info for SR, as that's something she can do on her own time without committing to anything or needing to do/say/accept things she may not be ready to yet. (How many of us lurked here before finally deciding to join and post?) Maybe that will help her start to get her eyes open.

After that, I might offer to go to Alanon together if it seems like she might be open to that, purely on a "trial basis" if that's all she's up for.

If she's not interested in SR or Alanon, then maybe do as others suggested and either put the topic of her AH completely off limits or agree to spend only a certain amount of time on it.

It's hard to know how she'll react--just from this forum, I see some people come here and THEY ARE READY! Man, they jump on the info like freaking wolverines! Then there are the others who come, post once while they are in crisis and then go away for a month, a year or forever. NOT ready, or not ready right then, at least. So I guess the only way to find out is to try it??

I guess I don't see this so much as an issue of you trying to "fix" someone else as I do an issue of figuring out how to remain friends w/someone who is becoming a negative drain on your life b/c of her situation w/an A. If she was constantly bitching about her job instead of her A, it would be equally troublesome for your friendship, right? And you'd likely receive similar advice about agreeing not to talk about the job or limit the amount of time spent on it.

Whatever you do, please let us know what path you choose and how things are working out.

ETA: I see you mention children being involved. If you do choose to give her SR info, be sure to direct her also to the Children of Alcoholics forum. That might help her realize that even if she thinks SHE is not being affected, her kids most certainly are. Maybe she'll take action on their behalf, if not her own.

ILuvMe

Hammer, I see your point. The dance does bother me, but if there were no children involved it probably wouldn't bother me as much. It's just hard to watch someone I love put herself and her children through pain and know that the consequences for this are probably going to sting for a long time. I only ask what I can say, if I should say anything at all, because she comes to me whenever he does something crazy. I want to be a friend, but I don't know the right way to handle the situation. I don't' want her to feel alone in this, but I also don't want to feel like I'm enabling her every time she vents.

ILuvMe

Honeypig, I looked up a local meeting and went with her yesterday. And oddly enough, I actually got something out of it. For starters, I learned that she is determined to find a way to stay with him and marry him, which was mind boggling to me. But when people shared their stories, something stood out. Just as parents and spouses of alcoholics have to detach, so do I. I don't have to sit there and listen to the same stories over and over. I'm not going to pretend that that's the easiest thing for me to do. In my head, good friends are always there when you need them. I think what lonelygirl suggested about giving her information or keys to educating herself is key. I know I have no control over what she does. But as long as I know she's making informed decisions, I'll feel like I've done my job as a friend.

ILuvMe

thislonelygirl, your response gives me a sense of peace. All I needed to know was that she knows. I took her to an Alanon meeting and she seemed to like the idea of talking with other people who know what she's going through. Thanks for your first-hand account, it definitely gives me perspective.

CarryOn

Hi ILuvMe...

I'm SO glad to hear you received something from the Al-Anon meeting; you are truly being a great support to your friend and I think we all understand your frustrations. I was recently talking with some of the people from one of my meetings, and said that if there is one thing I am thankful for it is the availability of this program. The ultimate goal of the program is to use it continuously in all aspects of our lives. There are so many people that have various issues in their relationships & families that do not have this kind of structured support program, but I can see where this program can benefit almost anyone.

I wish you the best with your friendship & I hope your friend can find some peace, regardless of her A.

Hammer

Well if you really want to row your little lifeboat straight into the storm . . .

. . . btw, you do understand it is the beginning of Hurricane Season, right? . . . .

. . . then you know we all go running right down to the beach with you. ESPECIALLY when you put up the Kids on Board, Boat Going Down Flag.

THAT is what *we* Codependent-Rescue-Rangers-For-Life-Do. It is on the fine print on the back of the ID Badge.

So.

Here are Best Practices for where you are heading -- FIRST get you in shape. You have a "Friend or Family" who is affected by Alcoholism. Guess what that makes you "qualified" for?

Alanon.

Alanon is like calling the Coast Guard.

Suddenly your little rowboat is not a-soon-to-be-tossed-upside-down boat, as the storm turns on you. Another By the way -- you do follow THAT is part of the likely path, ahead, too? The storm turns on the would-be rescuer(s). Hard. Very Hard. THAT is how you know you found the Hurricane.

You are likely to get some real blow-back ahead. The famous Friedrich Nietzsche quote applies -- When you look into the Abyss, The Abyss Looks into You. And the First, but less widely quoted part -- He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster.

-----------------

Interesting, that, on my own end since my Daughter and I were studying Dante's Inferno last weekend -- since I follow most folks will likely not read it, I guess this is not a spoiler -- when Dante got down to the Center of Hell, rather than Burning Fire, it is a Cold Lake of Ice.

We are watching the more modern Hollywood view -- What Dreams May Come, this weekend.

-----------------

Alanon. Then it goes . . . Learn, Serve, Teach.

That is how you help your friend.

So if you are serious. Get to Alanon.

When you start to figure this stuff out, invite your friend.


add on edit: I see that is where you are already paddling out towards. Go, and Row -- with God.

peridotbleu

I hope your friend educates herself on alcoholism as much as possible before marrying into it. Sounds like she may be in as much denial as he is about his disease. I hope she comes to SR and attends Alanon every chance she gets, and you as her friend will benefit from it as well.
Good Luck to you both!

honeypig

I just wanted to go OT for a moment here and say something in response to this: I heard it said at one of my very first Alanon meetings that while virtually all of us know a number of people who could benefit so much from Alanon, Alanon is NOT for those who NEED it; it's for those who WANT it.

And that seems true to me!

Sorry for the interruption, please return to the original discussion...

marie1960

I Luv Me, I also have a best friend going through a similar situation.

Until your friend commits to her own words, there really isn't a damn thing you can do, other than get out of the way.

I posted about this a couple of weeks ago, and someone reminded me that she is just as sick as he is, and the dance will continue as long as she continues listening to the music.

As difficult as it was, I had to tell my dear friend to seek professional help in sorting out her problems. I was allowing her troubled life to consume me. Time after time, i would listen to her troubles. I would support her in her decision to leave, I would help her move, and within a couple of weeks they would be back together doing the same sick twisted dance.

Currently, we do not discuss her future ex alcoholic husband. If she brings him up, I quickly change the subject, if continues I tell her point blank, " Stop borrowing other people's problem's". She will usually reel herself in at this point. I refuse to listen to the same pathetic story, day in and day out, it's a waste of my time and energy. If your friend truly wants change it must begin with her.

ILuvMe

Marie1960, thank you for your response. Sounds like you know exactly where I'm coming from. "Get out of the way" seems to be the answer, and honestly I don't think I have any other choice but to do so. I always assumed that this was a dance for both of them, but I don't think I really gave it much thought until I read some of these responses. Again, thanks for the insight.

ILuvMe

Just a quick question about Alanon. Is it strange if I'm there without her? I think it would help me, but I'm not exactly clear on the rules when it comes to who can attend the meetings.