ZenMe

For those following my story. Since, well forever, my dad has thrown crazy hurtful angry temper tantrums which are triggered at anytime for any reason. The tirade can last hours and household items may be destroyed. Happening at least once a week or so. I believe he is an alcoholic.

In talking today with a friend who is an ACOA he says that alcohol abuse and alcoholism are different. He recounts tales of his dad driving drunk and slurring, passing out, etc.

After some reading I guess alcohol dependance = alcoholism, while alcohol abuse is people who are abusing it and acting stupid but have not yet become chemically dependent.

My question is, is my dad an alcoholic or abusing alcohol. Both are bad of course. I don't recall him being the typical red faced, slobbering drunk. The quacking however, definitely.

So what would you classify him as, anger problems + alcohol abuse or??

Appreciate it!

littlefish

Does he try to stop and finds that he goes back to drinking? Does he have delusions about his drinking, insisting that he drinks less than he does? Is he hiding alcohol, has his consumption increased? (alcoholism is progressive) Does he feel guilty and remorseful over his drinking? Has he injured himself and had blackouts?

If you remember the quacking from way back, that is typical alcoholic: that is not a sign of the heavy drinker. You can probably put 2 and 2 together if you see that the emotional tirades coincide with drinking.

amy55

IMHO, Just reading the first paragraph describes abuse. I mean verbal abuse, emotion abuse, and physical abuse.

Crazy hurtful angry temper tantrums which are triggered at anytime. ---- verbal and emotional abuse.

Household items being broken ---- physical abuse by intimidation, because you never know if the next item will be thrown at you.

Abuse is not about anger, it is about control.

Abuse and alcoholism are 2 different things. Not every alcoholic is abusive, and not every person that is abusive is an alcoholic. I would suggest you read the stickies about what is abuse. See if that describes your life.

m1k3

Hi Zen,

My life improved quite a bit when I quit trying to figure out the alcoholic and started working on how to make my life better. It doesn't matter what name you use, he is abusive and he drinks and if is like my father was the more he drank the more the abuse showed up. Though to be honest he wasn't sunshine and puppies when he was sober.

I simply reached the point where I didn't have any more energy to give.

Your friend,

ZenMe

The reason I'm asking, other than my own pursuit of knowledge is because I have tried to talk to my mom about it and she keeps bailing when I bring the subject up. In other words I want to be sure I'm using the right words to communicate properly with her.

I'm also done giving my dad any energy. My mom however is going to be upset by the change so I want to be able to talk to her about it.

I'm definitely working on myself and making my life better. It's not consuming me.

LifeRecovery

I realized eventually that the definintion did not matter to me....because I reacted the way I did regardless of if it was a "problem" or if it was an addiction.

Also I came to realize that ALL the family in the dynamics were impacted....and they all had their coping mechanism. Denial, and workaholism were big ones in my family.

I guess what I am saying is that if you are waiting for your mom's definition to come around you might be setting yourself up.

amy55

Zen what changes would you like to make????? I can never say that putting labels on something that I went through during childhood doesn't matter. I sometimes think that we need validation for what we went through.

foolsgold66

I classify him as having behavioral problems that need to be solved. Labels don't matter

amy55

I think one of the most difficult thing to handle growing up, without any validation at all, is----- is my dad just drunk, why doen't he act like a drunk, is he abusive, does he just have anger issues??????

I went through all of this. All except questioning is he abusive, because I didn't know what that meant.

trixie56

I understand wanting to use the correct terms to communicate accurately. But, what if you did 'technically' use the wrong term? Would your mom use that to justify his behavior by saying "He's not dependent on alcohol, he's abusing it." Either way, it's not healthy/acceptable behavior and treatment. Whatever term you use probably won't allow her to accept things any easier...I think however you decide to label your father will be ok. The important thing is that you are standing up for yourself and communicating what you will/will not allow into your life.

amy55

I agree with this also. I never got validation from my mom. My dad was abusive to me, and to her. My sisters were OK. I was always the fat one, the son in the family. I am female. My self-esteem, sank. I was the stupid one. I had straight A's. My sisters got A+'s.

I was my dads favorite. But I was also the one that he tore down the most.

I got over all of this by thinking about what his childhood must have been like, that he was probably just trying to be the best dad to me that he knew how to be.

Then I found out about abuse, well I had already let all of this go, because he was dead.

amy55

If it is things like this, then please talk to us.

ZenMe

Amy,

Your story parallels mine a lot. I definitely got tore up the most. My mom is still in denial, she has also said things like "you couldn't deal with it as well as your brother" or "you are remembering it worse than it was" ...um what? it wasn't my responsibility to magically know how to deal with it better. Where was my mom to to help a little kid out? I understand she was under siege as well, and still is, 30 years later.

What do I plan to do? Well I live far from home so this year I'm not doing the usual trips out to my parents. Thanksgiving and xmas. I will be seeing them and my entire extended family during new years as my grandmother has a huge family trip planned. It will be easy to keep separate.

Yea it's abuse, pure and simple, regardless of the label. I like the labels because I'm analytical and it helps me sort things out in my own head. It's not a label to modify, or excuse the behavior.

My label? Neurotic BPD (Anger Issues) with continuous alcohol abuse.

Amy, I also understand his upbringing probably had a lot to do with his problems.

DreamsofSerenity

Zen,

I read on SR all the time that abuse and alcoholism were two separate things but I never really understood it until I read the book "Why does he do that? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men". I found that book totally illuminating and it helped me SO much to understand the behavior of my xabf.

I agree with Amy that your dad sounds like an abuser. Maybe you should read that book and see if any of it fits. For some reason I feel like that might help you to heal more than figuring out whether he was an alcoholic or not. It seems like what pained you the most was his abusive behavior from your childhood, not his drinking?

amy55

Hey there Zen, my father died, I was the only one that mourned him. Perhaps it was because occassionally he was nice to me. He didn't have anything to do with my other sisters. My mom catered to them to replace what I got from him, my dad. I remember doing what ever I could to get my mom to love me, and my mom did, but she had to show my sisters that she loved them more.

My sisters almost never saw the abuse, I did. Didn't know what it was though. My dad was extremely jealous.

My youngest sister just told me recently that she was glad that I was dad's favorite, that she could not have dealt with what I went through. Meanwhile our entire childhood she hated me.

I am finally able to talk to my mom about these things. She knew he was abusive the entire time. She told me she couldn't tell him to leave, because the only place he could have gone was to his mothers house. His mother was over 70 then. She was sick.

How to talk to your mom, I don't know. I don't know if she is in denial or not.

I know when my son went off to college, he cried. He told me that his only wish was that I would have divorced his dad, and that I was happy.

Your mom, might just be happy to hear that you love her.

ZenMe

Dreams, yep his abusive behavior affected me the most. He is definitely a control freak and I totally understand the control aspect of it. I will find the book.

Amy, I wish my Mom had divorced him. They split up for a bit and she let him come back and never kicked him out again. The biggest thing that stuck with me in those times was she had promised to talk to me before having him move back in. One day there he was, such a sad day in my life. Again we never communicated...

On the issue of communication I feel like I have learned a lot and find myself wanting to communicate with my X. Not to get back together. But to actually communicate better (from my side of things). Tell her why I bolted so hard and etc. As her situation being the mother of 2 boys parallels my childhood. This aspect of my relationship with her is one of the big reasons I was so enmeshed with her. I of course will not do this unless she is sober and reaching out to me in a state of growth. I'm not worried about it, big guns is taking care of it.

New relationships, friendships etc are a chance to practice my new skills =).

How weird is this? My mom on the phone for years when about to hang up would want me to say "I love you mom" when all I wanted to say was "bye". She eventually stopped asking for that, my XAGF would also ask for the I love you when ending a call...

Yea I'm going to go with the "i love you".

amy55

Zen, I also found that also. I feel that I am able to communicate better now, without the anger, without wanting to control, but you know what, I said it every way that I could have. Give yourself a break on that. You did tell her.

As to her children, I completely understand this, this is our savior self coming out to others. You really can't do anything about it. She will have you arrested for stalking or for harrassement. I know how much you love those children. Like in your other thread, people told you just be there for them if you can. If not, step back, hard to do. I have never responded to your threads, I don't think, just know that I read them.

amy55

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

all of this, except with XAGF

I started to end my phone calls with my family with I love you. or just luv ya. I was also the one in my family who started to give hugs goodbye. It really does make you feel good when you say this.

ZenMe

Who said stalking? haha. If I run into them I will treat them with kindness and respect, not ignore them but that's about it. Not doing anything else and I'm fine on that front.

I'm in no way shape or form on a quest to save them, just describing more of what kept my relationship sticky.

amy55

I know, was just kidding with you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!