How do WE know if they are serious?
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 590
How do WE know if they are serious?
We are leaving my AS in jail for now (possession of cocaine) and trying to figure out what to do.
What I want to ask is how did you know that your loved one was SERIOUS about getting help? Are there signs, is it your gut or what?
They lie so much and manipulate.
Mine came to me before all the above happened and said everything I've been wanting to hear for years. He got a therapist and has had about 2 months worth of weekly sessions. However, his fiance was making sure he went, etc. She was reminding him of appts., making appts., etc. and she is working and he isn't. He had to quit his job because of back issues and it was a physical job and also said he quit to get his drug problem under control, to work on him, even if she decided to leave. Noble thoughts but ???
He has called from jail but his main conversations consists of how are his children, how did his ex (the mother of his children) take the news that he was in jail, does his fiance want to dump him? In other words, all about him. He does say he wants to go to inpatient as he did previously but my gut wonders if he is serious. I had to ask about it. If it were me and I really wanted help, THAT would be my main concern with the other stuff coming after I had discussed help.
What would be examples of things he SHOULD be saying?
Thoughts?
Thanks, Kari
What I want to ask is how did you know that your loved one was SERIOUS about getting help? Are there signs, is it your gut or what?
They lie so much and manipulate.
Mine came to me before all the above happened and said everything I've been wanting to hear for years. He got a therapist and has had about 2 months worth of weekly sessions. However, his fiance was making sure he went, etc. She was reminding him of appts., making appts., etc. and she is working and he isn't. He had to quit his job because of back issues and it was a physical job and also said he quit to get his drug problem under control, to work on him, even if she decided to leave. Noble thoughts but ???
He has called from jail but his main conversations consists of how are his children, how did his ex (the mother of his children) take the news that he was in jail, does his fiance want to dump him? In other words, all about him. He does say he wants to go to inpatient as he did previously but my gut wonders if he is serious. I had to ask about it. If it were me and I really wanted help, THAT would be my main concern with the other stuff coming after I had discussed help.
What would be examples of things he SHOULD be saying?
Thoughts?
Thanks, Kari
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 628
Good question. Is he at the moment of surrender, where he wants to give up drugs? Of course he is concerned about himself and his children. I don't think if you should read too much into it. If in patient will help, he should go. You and his fiance should make it clear that you will not take an active addict back. Best wishes.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Jungle
Posts: 5,435
Short answer.....we don't know.
I've driven my son to rehab a few times. The first time after an intervention (that was an hour ride from hell) and he was angry and combative. The second time he was fine about it the night before and then became difficult on the way there. The last time......he was calm......at peace with his decision......good attitude. Did I know he was serious? Not really. But he was the one (other than the ride up there) making it happen. It was definitely different than the other times. He seemed almost happy that he was getting the opportunity to pull his life together. He seemed resigned to the fact that the burden of getting it done was on his shoulders and no one else's. I had very little contact with him for the entire six months he while he completed the program (I saw him twice and talked to him on the phone maybe 5-6 times). I knew he had lots of support from others struggling with him. I had let go and let God.
He's been clean and sober now for 8 months. He's like a different person. Kind. Thoughtful. Concerned about others. Going to NA meetings (not enough in my opinion but honestly my opinion doesn't matter--lol). Working (long hours) for someone in the program who has 25 years clean (and riding to work with him so those are daily mini meetings). And hanging out with others in NA.
How do we know they'll stay clean after rehab? We don't.
I've let go of the outcome. He either will or he won't. I know that I still have no control. I can just love him.....and pray.
gentle hugs
ke
I've driven my son to rehab a few times. The first time after an intervention (that was an hour ride from hell) and he was angry and combative. The second time he was fine about it the night before and then became difficult on the way there. The last time......he was calm......at peace with his decision......good attitude. Did I know he was serious? Not really. But he was the one (other than the ride up there) making it happen. It was definitely different than the other times. He seemed almost happy that he was getting the opportunity to pull his life together. He seemed resigned to the fact that the burden of getting it done was on his shoulders and no one else's. I had very little contact with him for the entire six months he while he completed the program (I saw him twice and talked to him on the phone maybe 5-6 times). I knew he had lots of support from others struggling with him. I had let go and let God.
He's been clean and sober now for 8 months. He's like a different person. Kind. Thoughtful. Concerned about others. Going to NA meetings (not enough in my opinion but honestly my opinion doesn't matter--lol). Working (long hours) for someone in the program who has 25 years clean (and riding to work with him so those are daily mini meetings). And hanging out with others in NA.
How do we know they'll stay clean after rehab? We don't.
I've let go of the outcome. He either will or he won't. I know that I still have no control. I can just love him.....and pray.
gentle hugs
ke
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
I would think that if he were SERIOUS about getting clean he would have gone to inpatient when he quit his job. That was his opportunity, his chance to turn things around. Instead he took the easy route with a therapist and to boot he didn’t even make his own appointments and had to be babysat to make sure he went – those are not the actions of a person truly wanting to change.
His actions of only seeking out a therapist and not inpatient have landed him in jail. Jail is detox to an addict and they will do what ever and say what ever to get out.
When someone really wants to change and get clean they will move heaven and earth to do it. They will not dump that burdon on you or their fiancé and neither one of you should be researching or setting it up for him, he needs to do this for himself if that is what he truly wants.
His actions of only seeking out a therapist and not inpatient have landed him in jail. Jail is detox to an addict and they will do what ever and say what ever to get out.
When someone really wants to change and get clean they will move heaven and earth to do it. They will not dump that burdon on you or their fiancé and neither one of you should be researching or setting it up for him, he needs to do this for himself if that is what he truly wants.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 88
When my AB first went to jail, he was all about how he wanted to get his life together, get back on his feet, etc etc. At first I was really hopeful and thought maybe this was the turning point for him. But as the weeks went on you could start to tell he had no desire to do all the work that was needed.
As his possible release was approaching, you could start to see holes in his plans, or lack there of. There was NA meetings weekly at the jail, he wasn't attending those. He eventually went into the jail drug treatment program, but listening to him you could tell it wasn't to get help, but it was more because their rules were more lenient and they spent more time out of their cells. He was supposed to get a sponsor before release, but when I asked he changed the subject. When I mentioned living in a sober living house or finding some other options, again, he deferred or said there was nothing available and he didn't have access to info while in jail.
He lasted 15 days in work release and went right back in for using again. When I picked up his stuff from work release there were all sorts of pamphlets of info and contacts on outpatient rehab options, meetings, sober living options, etc., so the tools were there, he didn't want them.
So you may see how serious he seems as time goes by.
As his possible release was approaching, you could start to see holes in his plans, or lack there of. There was NA meetings weekly at the jail, he wasn't attending those. He eventually went into the jail drug treatment program, but listening to him you could tell it wasn't to get help, but it was more because their rules were more lenient and they spent more time out of their cells. He was supposed to get a sponsor before release, but when I asked he changed the subject. When I mentioned living in a sober living house or finding some other options, again, he deferred or said there was nothing available and he didn't have access to info while in jail.
He lasted 15 days in work release and went right back in for using again. When I picked up his stuff from work release there were all sorts of pamphlets of info and contacts on outpatient rehab options, meetings, sober living options, etc., so the tools were there, he didn't want them.
So you may see how serious he seems as time goes by.
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
I knew my son was serious when he did the work and his actions backed up his words...and not a moment before.
Until they "do" what needs to be done, however serious their intentions, they aren't even close to finding sobriety.
"Don't tell me, show me" is a good mantra.
Hugs
Until they "do" what needs to be done, however serious their intentions, they aren't even close to finding sobriety.
"Don't tell me, show me" is a good mantra.
Hugs
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by Kindeyes 
Short answer.....we don't know.
I've driven my son to rehab a few times. The first time after an intervention (that was an hour ride from hell) and he was angry and combative. The second time he was fine about it the night before and then became difficult on the way there. The last time......he was calm......at peace with his decision......good attitude. Did I know he was serious? Not really. But he was the one (other than the ride up there) making it happen. It was definitely different than the other times. He seemed almost happy that he was getting the opportunity to pull his life together. He seemed resigned to the fact that the burden of getting it done was on his shoulders and no one else's. I had very little contact with him for the entire six months he while he completed the program (I saw him twice and talked to him on the phone maybe 5-6 times). I knew he had lots of support from others struggling with him. I had let go and let God.
He's been clean and sober now for 8 months. He's like a different person. Kind. Thoughtful. Concerned about others. Going to NA meetings (not enough in my opinion but honestly my opinion doesn't matter--lol). Working (long hours) for someone in the program who has 25 years clean (and riding to work with him so those are daily mini meetings). And hanging out with others in NA.
How do we know they'll stay clean after rehab? We don't.
I've let go of the outcome. He either will or he won't. I know that I still have no control. I can just love him.....and pray.
gentle hugs
ke
I've driven my son to rehab a few times. The first time after an intervention (that was an hour ride from hell) and he was angry and combative. The second time he was fine about it the night before and then became difficult on the way there. The last time......he was calm......at peace with his decision......good attitude. Did I know he was serious? Not really. But he was the one (other than the ride up there) making it happen. It was definitely different than the other times. He seemed almost happy that he was getting the opportunity to pull his life together. He seemed resigned to the fact that the burden of getting it done was on his shoulders and no one else's. I had very little contact with him for the entire six months he while he completed the program (I saw him twice and talked to him on the phone maybe 5-6 times). I knew he had lots of support from others struggling with him. I had let go and let God.
He's been clean and sober now for 8 months. He's like a different person. Kind. Thoughtful. Concerned about others. Going to NA meetings (not enough in my opinion but honestly my opinion doesn't matter--lol). Working (long hours) for someone in the program who has 25 years clean (and riding to work with him so those are daily mini meetings). And hanging out with others in NA.
How do we know they'll stay clean after rehab? We don't.
I've let go of the outcome. He either will or he won't. I know that I still have no control. I can just love him.....and pray.
gentle hugs
ke
Just kidding.This really, really, really sucks. There I said it.
I'm thinking why should I lay out money when it might not even 'take'? Maybe we'll just start with the Marchman act that we have here in Florida. They are court ordered into treatment and cannot leave under penalty of jail. If they are indigent then the fee is based on a sliding scale and they go to a county facility. He could pick a private one also with the same stipulations but he'd have to (or more accurately WE would have to pay). I wouldn't mind paying something but not only do they seem expensive but one doesn't know if they'll even work. Did I mention this sucks?
Thanks for your reply and I am really, really happy for you and your son. It even sounded good to hear my son on the phone last night and he was clear headed. No drugs in jail!
It gets more than sad when a parent is actually relieved that their son is in jail. Wow.
Kari
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by atalose
I would think that if he were SERIOUS about getting clean he would have gone to inpatient when he quit his job. That was his opportunity, his chance to turn things around. Instead he took the easy route with a therapist and to boot he didn’t even make his own appointments and had to be babysat to make sure he went – those are not the actions of a person truly wanting to change.
His actions of only seeking out a therapist and not inpatient have landed him in jail. Jail is detox to an addict and they will do what ever and say what ever to get out.
When someone really wants to change and get clean they will move heaven and earth to do it. They will not dump that burdon on you or their fiancé and neither one of you should be researching or setting it up for him, he needs to do this for himself if that is what he truly wants.
His actions of only seeking out a therapist and not inpatient have landed him in jail. Jail is detox to an addict and they will do what ever and say what ever to get out.
When someone really wants to change and get clean they will move heaven and earth to do it. They will not dump that burdon on you or their fiancé and neither one of you should be researching or setting it up for him, he needs to do this for himself if that is what he truly wants.
I'm so very tired of this merry go round....
Kari
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by Ann
I knew my son was serious when he did the work and his actions backed up his words...and not a moment before.
Until they "do" what needs to be done, however serious their intentions, they aren't even close to finding sobriety.
"Don't tell me, show me" is a good mantra.
Hugs
Until they "do" what needs to be done, however serious their intentions, they aren't even close to finding sobriety.
"Don't tell me, show me" is a good mantra.
Hugs
Kari
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,741
It gets more than sad when a parent is actually relieved that their son is in jail. Wow.
I agree and know that feeling all too well because of my experience with my oldest AS son... I always was glad when he was in jail because on the streets he had been beaten on the head with the handle of a gun and was found by the police laying passed out in the middle of the street, once someone ran their truck through his motel room because he make fake crack and sold it to them not to mention the possibility of overdose he called me many times saying he was sick, scared etc... that he though he did too many drugs and was dying.
He is in prison now and I miss him terribly I have not seen him in almost 3 years but I still feel he is safer there than on the streets. Addiction sucks ...
I agree and know that feeling all too well because of my experience with my oldest AS son... I always was glad when he was in jail because on the streets he had been beaten on the head with the handle of a gun and was found by the police laying passed out in the middle of the street, once someone ran their truck through his motel room because he make fake crack and sold it to them not to mention the possibility of overdose he called me many times saying he was sick, scared etc... that he though he did too many drugs and was dying.
He is in prison now and I miss him terribly I have not seen him in almost 3 years but I still feel he is safer there than on the streets. Addiction sucks ...
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by crazybabie
It gets more than sad when a parent is actually relieved that their son is in jail. Wow.
I agree and know that feeling all too well because of my experience with my oldest AS son... I always was glad when he was in jail because on the streets he had been beaten on the head with the handle of a gun and was found by the police laying passed out in the middle of the street, once someone ran their truck through his motel room because he make fake crack and sold it to them not to mention the possibility of overdose he called me many times saying he was sick, scared etc... that he though he did too many drugs and was dying.
He is in prison now and I miss him terribly I have not seen him in almost 3 years but I still feel he is safer there than on the streets. Addiction sucks ...
I agree and know that feeling all too well because of my experience with my oldest AS son... I always was glad when he was in jail because on the streets he had been beaten on the head with the handle of a gun and was found by the police laying passed out in the middle of the street, once someone ran their truck through his motel room because he make fake crack and sold it to them not to mention the possibility of overdose he called me many times saying he was sick, scared etc... that he though he did too many drugs and was dying.
He is in prison now and I miss him terribly I have not seen him in almost 3 years but I still feel he is safer there than on the streets. Addiction sucks ...
I just talked to his fiance and found out even more. It is worse than I thought. I had no idea she had been battling it with him for the 3 years she has been with him. They even lived with us most of that time...not for several months now though.
Why she puts up with it, I'll never know. Now we all seem to be on the same page I think....well except maybe for him. Not sure what page he is really on now. Almost don't care at this point.
Kari
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,741
Originally Posted by KariSue
Oh wow, you have been through a lot. I think I just don't know some of the things he has been through and I'm kind of glad.
I just talked to his fiance and found out even more. It is worse than I thought. I had no idea she had been battling it with him for the 3 years she has been with him. They even lived with us most of that time...not for several months now though.
Why she puts up with it, I'll never know. Now we all seem to be on the same page I think....well except maybe for him. Not sure what page he is really on now. Almost don't care at this point.
Kari
I just talked to his fiance and found out even more. It is worse than I thought. I had no idea she had been battling it with him for the 3 years she has been with him. They even lived with us most of that time...not for several months now though.
Why she puts up with it, I'll never know. Now we all seem to be on the same page I think....well except maybe for him. Not sure what page he is really on now. Almost don't care at this point.
Kari
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,854
I wanted to respond to this, but I have a lot of mixed feelings on it. My husband agreed to go into rehab, but he had a lot of people telling him it is what he needed to do. (me, his parents, my parents, a couple of doctors, many of his friends, and his boss at work who is also a friend). He agreed to go, but was angry with me at one point for what he thought was not sticking by him. He had it in his head he could get help while being at home still. And maybe so, but the doctor said due to the way he was using needles that rehab was the best bet.
I dont think most people who use drugs want to be using drugs. I think it can get to a point where like another thread here was talking, they identify themselves so much with the drug, and cant imagine life without it. It is scary to take that leap. i read a book called Beautiful Boy by David Sheff, and it is all about his experiences with his sons addiction, and he had many rehabs. He talked about a person imagining stopping drugs is like they are standing in a abyss and they cannot even see sometimes how they will live.
After my husband was detoxed, he was thinking more clear, but he is not well. I hope in rehab he can see how much of a good life he has, and he will want to work hard to learn and understand what has happened, and ways to prevent it from happening again. In the book I read it made me realize people may not have one rehab and then never need another. But I keep reading on here where a lot of people blame the person and put it off as they weren't ready, or weren't willing to do anything to get better. I know where some of that thinking comes from .I don't believe that is the main reason rehab doesn't work, but that is just me. I think it has more to do with learning and applying what you learn when you are faced with real life, and real responsibilities. That stuff is not easy especially for people who have been dealing with life by using drugs for a long time, and like you were saying; your son has a lot of cleaning up to do and drugs made it worse, and now he has more cleaning up to do.
I dont think most people who use drugs want to be using drugs. I think it can get to a point where like another thread here was talking, they identify themselves so much with the drug, and cant imagine life without it. It is scary to take that leap. i read a book called Beautiful Boy by David Sheff, and it is all about his experiences with his sons addiction, and he had many rehabs. He talked about a person imagining stopping drugs is like they are standing in a abyss and they cannot even see sometimes how they will live.
After my husband was detoxed, he was thinking more clear, but he is not well. I hope in rehab he can see how much of a good life he has, and he will want to work hard to learn and understand what has happened, and ways to prevent it from happening again. In the book I read it made me realize people may not have one rehab and then never need another. But I keep reading on here where a lot of people blame the person and put it off as they weren't ready, or weren't willing to do anything to get better. I know where some of that thinking comes from .I don't believe that is the main reason rehab doesn't work, but that is just me. I think it has more to do with learning and applying what you learn when you are faced with real life, and real responsibilities. That stuff is not easy especially for people who have been dealing with life by using drugs for a long time, and like you were saying; your son has a lot of cleaning up to do and drugs made it worse, and now he has more cleaning up to do.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by BlueChair
I wanted to respond to this, but I have a lot of mixed feelings on it. My husband agreed to go into rehab, but he had a lot of people telling him it is what he needed to do. (me, his parents, my parents, a couple of doctors, many of his friends, and his boss at work who is also a friend). He agreed to go, but was angry with me at one point for what he thought was not sticking by him. He had it in his head he could get help while being at home still. And maybe so, but the doctor said due to the way he was using needles that rehab was the best bet.
I dont think most people who use drugs want to be using drugs. I think it can get to a point where like another thread here was talking, they identify themselves so much with the drug, and cant imagine life without it. It is scary to take that leap. i read a book called Beautiful Boy by David Sheff, and it is all about his experiences with his sons addiction, and he had many rehabs. He talked about a person imagining stopping drugs is like they are standing in a abyss and they cannot even see sometimes how they will live.
After my husband was detoxed, he was thinking more clear, but he is not well. I hope in rehab he can see how much of a good life he has, and he will want to work hard to learn and understand what has happened, and ways to prevent it from happening again. In the book I read it made me realize people may not have one rehab and then never need another. But I keep reading on here where a lot of people blame the person and put it off as they weren't ready, or weren't willing to do anything to get better. I know where some of that thinking comes from .I don't believe that is the main reason rehab doesn't work, but that is just me. I think it has more to do with learning and applying what you learn when you are faced with real life, and real responsibilities. That stuff is not easy especially for people who have been dealing with life by using drugs for a long time, and like you were saying; your son has a lot of cleaning up to do and drugs made it worse, and now he has more cleaning up to do.
I dont think most people who use drugs want to be using drugs. I think it can get to a point where like another thread here was talking, they identify themselves so much with the drug, and cant imagine life without it. It is scary to take that leap. i read a book called Beautiful Boy by David Sheff, and it is all about his experiences with his sons addiction, and he had many rehabs. He talked about a person imagining stopping drugs is like they are standing in a abyss and they cannot even see sometimes how they will live.
After my husband was detoxed, he was thinking more clear, but he is not well. I hope in rehab he can see how much of a good life he has, and he will want to work hard to learn and understand what has happened, and ways to prevent it from happening again. In the book I read it made me realize people may not have one rehab and then never need another. But I keep reading on here where a lot of people blame the person and put it off as they weren't ready, or weren't willing to do anything to get better. I know where some of that thinking comes from .I don't believe that is the main reason rehab doesn't work, but that is just me. I think it has more to do with learning and applying what you learn when you are faced with real life, and real responsibilities. That stuff is not easy especially for people who have been dealing with life by using drugs for a long time, and like you were saying; your son has a lot of cleaning up to do and drugs made it worse, and now he has more cleaning up to do.
I think you have a good point. I think my son made an attempt at helping himself but things just got to be too much.
I appreciate your insight.
I wish you all the best with your husband.
Kari
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