advice needed! :(
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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advice needed! :(
Hi there. I'm new to this site (sorry if my typing is bad, using a dreaded iPhone!)
I am hoping to get some advice from some folks here - I am in a relationship with someone coping with a problem with alcohol.
Background: he is 29 with a long history of alcohol and drug abuse (mainly weed and pills occasionally) but has stopped all drug use for the past 3 years. Alcohol has seemingly began to disagree with him since giving up drugs - he turns into a zombie in self destruct mode and someone always gets hurt when he has too much to drink. He does not crave alcohol or drink all the time - just in occasions where alcohol is consumed he has real problems with limiting himself. One beer always turns into 10 beers and a quiet drink always turns into a session. He had a few bad nights where he ended up upsetting his friends and family and made the decision to take a year off from drinking.
He completed a full year without touching a drop, the best year of his life where everything was completely turned around, and then decided that to celebrate a years sobriety he would have a couple beers on New Year's Eve. Things got out of hand and he ended up trying to jump out a first floor window, he lunged for me, and he stabbed his best friend in the face with a glass bottle. I moved out of our home for a couple weeks after that and to cut a long story short after much deliberation and persuasion, moved back in. He had sworn off drink permanently and everything was well again.
Recently though, he's been talking about trying to experiment with a few beers again - that he just wants to be "normal" and be able to have a couple drinks on nights out etc. he feels left out now and has convinced himself that he can handle alcohol if he takes it slowly.
I am terrified of him drinking again. I know deep down that our lives will be perfect and happy so long as alcohol isn't a factor. How can i deal with this? Should I accept that our relationship is doomed and leave before intend up married with kids to a man who will be battling this all his life? He says that he thinks if he is being told he can't have a drink that one day he'll turn round and go on a bender as a rebellion. I don't know what to do, how to encourage him against drinking again - or whether this is the right thing to do?
Does anyone have any advice? I love him so much and our life together is very very happy. He just seems hell bent on shaking it all up and I feel like its a huge cloud hanging over us.
Someone please help.
X
I am hoping to get some advice from some folks here - I am in a relationship with someone coping with a problem with alcohol.
Background: he is 29 with a long history of alcohol and drug abuse (mainly weed and pills occasionally) but has stopped all drug use for the past 3 years. Alcohol has seemingly began to disagree with him since giving up drugs - he turns into a zombie in self destruct mode and someone always gets hurt when he has too much to drink. He does not crave alcohol or drink all the time - just in occasions where alcohol is consumed he has real problems with limiting himself. One beer always turns into 10 beers and a quiet drink always turns into a session. He had a few bad nights where he ended up upsetting his friends and family and made the decision to take a year off from drinking.
He completed a full year without touching a drop, the best year of his life where everything was completely turned around, and then decided that to celebrate a years sobriety he would have a couple beers on New Year's Eve. Things got out of hand and he ended up trying to jump out a first floor window, he lunged for me, and he stabbed his best friend in the face with a glass bottle. I moved out of our home for a couple weeks after that and to cut a long story short after much deliberation and persuasion, moved back in. He had sworn off drink permanently and everything was well again.
Recently though, he's been talking about trying to experiment with a few beers again - that he just wants to be "normal" and be able to have a couple drinks on nights out etc. he feels left out now and has convinced himself that he can handle alcohol if he takes it slowly.
I am terrified of him drinking again. I know deep down that our lives will be perfect and happy so long as alcohol isn't a factor. How can i deal with this? Should I accept that our relationship is doomed and leave before intend up married with kids to a man who will be battling this all his life? He says that he thinks if he is being told he can't have a drink that one day he'll turn round and go on a bender as a rebellion. I don't know what to do, how to encourage him against drinking again - or whether this is the right thing to do?
Does anyone have any advice? I love him so much and our life together is very very happy. He just seems hell bent on shaking it all up and I feel like its a huge cloud hanging over us.
Someone please help.
X
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Welcome to the SR family!
I'm glad you are here, but sorry for the reason that brings you here. Please make yourself at home by reading and posting as much as needed. We are here for support.
When I first arrived, I learned about the three C's of my loved ones alcoholism:
I did not Cause it
I can not Control it
I will not Cure it
That takes time to accept. I was sure I could find the right formula (care, words & love) to convince my husband that alcohol was ruining our family. Unfortunately, there is no magic formula to convince someone else that they have a problem.
I like to think of it in terms of adult to adult conversation: Would I want another adult telling me how to live my own life? In my case, that would not be appreciated.
You mentioned that you do not want to commit to marriage and family with someone who will deal with this issue the rest of their life. Good for you. You know what you are not willing to accept in a relationship partner. I wish I had figured that out prior to marrying my alcoholic.
Unfortunately, your ABF (alcoholic boyfriend) is already in that battle. He has a history of addictive behavior that included drug use. He is still looking for a fix. He will fight this battle the rest of his life. Use, stop, use, stop, use, use use. Addiction is progressive. It gets worse without treatment. ABF showed signs of that when he picked back up to celebrate New Years, the addiction doesn't forget where it left off, it starts right back as if it never missed a beat.
I'm glad you are here, but sorry for the reason that brings you here. Please make yourself at home by reading and posting as much as needed. We are here for support.
When I first arrived, I learned about the three C's of my loved ones alcoholism:
I did not Cause it
I can not Control it
I will not Cure it
That takes time to accept. I was sure I could find the right formula (care, words & love) to convince my husband that alcohol was ruining our family. Unfortunately, there is no magic formula to convince someone else that they have a problem.
I like to think of it in terms of adult to adult conversation: Would I want another adult telling me how to live my own life? In my case, that would not be appreciated.
You mentioned that you do not want to commit to marriage and family with someone who will deal with this issue the rest of their life. Good for you. You know what you are not willing to accept in a relationship partner. I wish I had figured that out prior to marrying my alcoholic.
Unfortunately, your ABF (alcoholic boyfriend) is already in that battle. He has a history of addictive behavior that included drug use. He is still looking for a fix. He will fight this battle the rest of his life. Use, stop, use, stop, use, use use. Addiction is progressive. It gets worse without treatment. ABF showed signs of that when he picked back up to celebrate New Years, the addiction doesn't forget where it left off, it starts right back as if it never missed a beat.
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
Welcome to SR F&F. The uncertainty can be so disheartening. Thing is, there are no guarantees. When we were younger, AXH didn't seem to crave alcohol either.... (Or he hid it well - from himself, too, based on what I learned years later.) But when he did drink, it was never just one.
He's occasionally stopped for a while, but then he'd have 'just one', too. He was never able to moderate for long. His erratic and abusive behavior escalated both when he started drinking again and when he tried to stop again. I left him for good, and took out 3yo son with me, 16 years later. The situation I left was one I'd never wish on any one. He's not only lost his family , but he's had a new GF secure a protective order against him, and can not see her or her kids anymore either. And he still won't admit he has a problem or seek help. He's still drinking and doing whatever it is he does. He hasn't seen his son in almost a year.
Then, there's my good friend 'D'. He's a RA and admits to putting his wife through really hard times. He stopped drinking when his daughter was very young, is actively working his recovery still and his daughter is off to college soon. He has been involved with his daughters life, takes his share of responsibility for his life and that of his family. He knows and says that he can never so much as take a sip again.
No one can say for sure which path their A will take.
Not much help, I know. I do know that alcoholism, like other addictions, is progressive. Being through what I went through with AXH, if a new guy in my life lunged at me and stabbed his friend, while under the influence or not, I'd start planning an exit when he started saying he could handle 'just one'. Because behavior like that tends to escalate, too.
He's occasionally stopped for a while, but then he'd have 'just one', too. He was never able to moderate for long. His erratic and abusive behavior escalated both when he started drinking again and when he tried to stop again. I left him for good, and took out 3yo son with me, 16 years later. The situation I left was one I'd never wish on any one. He's not only lost his family , but he's had a new GF secure a protective order against him, and can not see her or her kids anymore either. And he still won't admit he has a problem or seek help. He's still drinking and doing whatever it is he does. He hasn't seen his son in almost a year.
Then, there's my good friend 'D'. He's a RA and admits to putting his wife through really hard times. He stopped drinking when his daughter was very young, is actively working his recovery still and his daughter is off to college soon. He has been involved with his daughters life, takes his share of responsibility for his life and that of his family. He knows and says that he can never so much as take a sip again.
No one can say for sure which path their A will take.
Not much help, I know. I do know that alcoholism, like other addictions, is progressive. Being through what I went through with AXH, if a new guy in my life lunged at me and stabbed his friend, while under the influence or not, I'd start planning an exit when he started saying he could handle 'just one'. Because behavior like that tends to escalate, too.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 7
Wow thanks for your replies - they make alot of sense. I feel like I don't want to give up on him, that I can help guide him to talking to professionals who'll help him realise what he needs to do, even if I can't. I think deep down he knows he can't afford to drink again; he fully admits that his life is better without alcohol and he knows he will lose everything if he chooses to go down that path again. I guess I'll have to wait and see what decision he makes - and if its the wrong decision, I won't hesitate to walk away.
Did either of you take any steps to try to help your loved one?
Did either of you take any steps to try to help your loved one?
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
tumbleweedling, you can certainly OFFER some suggestions to your ABF, express your concern, but ultimately the decision regarding drinking WILL be his to make.
all alcoholic drinkers "wish" they could drink normally, and many go to great lengths to TRY and control and moderate their consumption. but as you've sadly had to witness first hand, that experiment goes terribly awry.
if you EVER fear for your safety, or if you just can't deal, please know that leaving is your best option...getting YOU to safe and sane place. leaving doesn't have to be forever, but the only person whose future you can guarantee is yours. so have that exit plan ready ok?
I wish you well.
all alcoholic drinkers "wish" they could drink normally, and many go to great lengths to TRY and control and moderate their consumption. but as you've sadly had to witness first hand, that experiment goes terribly awry.
if you EVER fear for your safety, or if you just can't deal, please know that leaving is your best option...getting YOU to safe and sane place. leaving doesn't have to be forever, but the only person whose future you can guarantee is yours. so have that exit plan ready ok?
I wish you well.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 7
Wise words. Thank you. I refuse to get stuck in a relationship with such problems, I just want some advice on my best way of finding out whether there's light at the end of the tunnel or whether I'm wasting my time 
I suppose there is no answer.
I suppose there is no answer.
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 458
Did either of you take any steps to try to help your loved one?
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
Tumbleweedling, I tried a few things, but AXH was... resistant. Marriage counseling, counseling of any kind, according to him, is for people who are soft. And he didn't mean that as in out of shape; he meant it in the most negative, ugly sense of inability to perform. I researched rehab that would be covered by my insurance and shared it with him. I found AA and AlAnon meetings nearby that fit our schedules.... He made excuses, or pretended to attend and drank instead. I thought I didn't boost his ego enough; praised him efflusively for doing the day-to-day chores any person does; I tried to be the wife he was always threatening to find (think stereotypical Japanese wife walking steps behind her master). I tried nagging, tossing his bottles, drinking with him, ignoring his drinking.... Eventually, I left.
I never tried to set up an intervention. I don't think he would've taken that well at all.
He's agreed to rehab once - in a last ditch effort to hold onto a really good job, which he was losing for showing up intoxicated, injuring himself on the job, and loosing his temper. And to placate people in his life. He left it early, refused the aftercare sessions and immediately said it was just the hard stuff, not the beer, not caused problems. Maybe it gave him tools that he might use in the future, but he hasn't used them yet.
I don't know what it'll take for him to seek recovery. It doesn't seem to matter what help is offered.
I never tried to set up an intervention. I don't think he would've taken that well at all.
He's agreed to rehab once - in a last ditch effort to hold onto a really good job, which he was losing for showing up intoxicated, injuring himself on the job, and loosing his temper. And to placate people in his life. He left it early, refused the aftercare sessions and immediately said it was just the hard stuff, not the beer, not caused problems. Maybe it gave him tools that he might use in the future, but he hasn't used them yet.
I don't know what it'll take for him to seek recovery. It doesn't seem to matter what help is offered.
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Posts: 3,581
Because he has not been in recovery he doesn't get it. He still has the alcoholic mind set. What he did for a year was called white knuckling. An alcoholic does not have to drink every day to be one.
I am of the opinion that without a 12 step program and active recovery that an alcoholic doesn't have a chance for long term sobriety. There may be a few exceptions to this rule but I would guess .0000001% that actually does it.
His mindset is still active as the alcoholic - still trying to figure out a way to drink. Blame shifting and making comments like "I think if I am told I can't ever have a drink I will go on a bender". Very manipulative.
I would suggest you start going to Al Anon. You need to know how to deal with his alcoholism. Even if he gets sober the road to recovery is a very hard one with total dedication to stay sober.
You can suggest for him to seek recovery I can't say it will do much. The choice ultimately will have to be his. He is in denial.
I wouldn't entertain the thought of marrying someone who didn't have at least 1 year of sobriety my preference would be 2 years. I would need 3 - 5 before having a child. My husband is a recovering A and we have a wonderful life - it didn't get that way until I went to Al Anon and worked on my own issues.
I am of the opinion that without a 12 step program and active recovery that an alcoholic doesn't have a chance for long term sobriety. There may be a few exceptions to this rule but I would guess .0000001% that actually does it.
His mindset is still active as the alcoholic - still trying to figure out a way to drink. Blame shifting and making comments like "I think if I am told I can't ever have a drink I will go on a bender". Very manipulative.
I would suggest you start going to Al Anon. You need to know how to deal with his alcoholism. Even if he gets sober the road to recovery is a very hard one with total dedication to stay sober.
You can suggest for him to seek recovery I can't say it will do much. The choice ultimately will have to be his. He is in denial.
I wouldn't entertain the thought of marrying someone who didn't have at least 1 year of sobriety my preference would be 2 years. I would need 3 - 5 before having a child. My husband is a recovering A and we have a wonderful life - it didn't get that way until I went to Al Anon and worked on my own issues.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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Thank you everyone. I live in Ireland and I'm not totally sure of my options in regards to support groups etc "sure everyone drinks in Ireland!" And it's true. My bf is the only one of a large group of regular drinkers (including myself) who has decided that he has a limitation problem and made steps to avoid such bad situations arising again. I believe he is torn and confused - he doesn't fully understand that the only way out of this is total sobriety. He says he doesn't want drink to be in control of him, that he wants to be in control of it and wants to be able to have champagne on special occasions or a few beers on his friends stag do. It's the feeling left out that he struggles with, he constantly says he feels like a freak, like he is no longer invited on social event with his friends because they have accepted and encouraged that drinking isn't for him anymore. Myself, his friends and his family are very supportive and try to make him feel included at dinners or get togethers, when they're hanging out watching a big football match for example they'll buy him a case of non alcoholic beer so he doesn't feel left out. We are all going on a holiday in the summer to Spain where I know we'll be sipping cocktails and sangria and I know he'll feel lost in that. I should mention that not once during these times of pressure has he ever picked up a beer. He made the decision to have celebratory beers on New Years because he thought a years sobriety meant he had proved he was in control and he'll fully admit that it was a really bad and stupid move and this is why he is back to not taking a drink. Even at that, it took him over half an hour to actually pick up the courage to drink his first beer - he really didnt even want to - his drink friends bartered him into it (which they won't ever do again seeing as one of them ended up in hospital...)
It's the feeling left out that he struggles with. I know that placing him in situations where we're all drinking can be selfish? But I'm 24 and it's in our Irish culture - if we stop socialising we become isolated and what life is that for us? Our group of friends are all growing up, having kids and getting married so we're hanging out and drinking less and less so the awkwardness only arises maybe once a month for my BF. he never just wants to drink "just because" - its a case of wanting to be included and fit in with everyone else.
I guess I need support in supporting him. I plan to show him these threads. Good idea or bad idea?
It's the feeling left out that he struggles with. I know that placing him in situations where we're all drinking can be selfish? But I'm 24 and it's in our Irish culture - if we stop socialising we become isolated and what life is that for us? Our group of friends are all growing up, having kids and getting married so we're hanging out and drinking less and less so the awkwardness only arises maybe once a month for my BF. he never just wants to drink "just because" - its a case of wanting to be included and fit in with everyone else.
I guess I need support in supporting him. I plan to show him these threads. Good idea or bad idea?
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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I should also say that when we're all hanging out and having a drink its sharing a bottle of wine with dinner or something. We all have quite a high tolerance for alcohol and rarely would anyone actually get very drunk. They're generally just quiet social drinks at the weekend - it's my bfs inability to have a quiet social drink without it escalating that is the problem here.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
AA and Al-Anon are very available in Ireland. And an alcoholic in early sobriety has no business hanging out in pubs or at wine-tastings. In AA he can learn to manage his own recovery, with the help of other sober alcoholics. If he truly wants sobriety, that's the best place for him to find it.
Incidentally, N/A beers are usually discouraged for alcoholics. They often lead to returning for the real thing.
There really is no such possibility as the occasional social or celebratory drink for an alcoholic, either. You can't turn a pickle back into a cucumber.
I'm a recovered alcoholic myself, happily sober over four and a half years in AA. It has changed my life.
Incidentally, N/A beers are usually discouraged for alcoholics. They often lead to returning for the real thing.
There really is no such possibility as the occasional social or celebratory drink for an alcoholic, either. You can't turn a pickle back into a cucumber.
I'm a recovered alcoholic myself, happily sober over four and a half years in AA. It has changed my life.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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Like I said. He does not crave alcohol. He can happily join in on situations where we are drinking and not think "I need a beer now" - he doesn't WANT alcohol he just needs to feel like his friends aren't leaving him out just because he isn't drinking. It's the feeling left out part that I worry will eventually cave in later down the line and make him go "f it, I'm having a drink" for the sake of fitting in.
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Originally Posted by tumbleweedling 
Did either of you take any steps to try to help your loved one?
covering his debts
covering his bad checks
being financial secretary of family so he didn't have to deal with the stress
justifying his unacceptable behavior
believing this time would be different
bargaining
pleading
crying
yelling
lather, rinse, repeat
Everytime I made his unacceptable behavior acceptable (covering debt, bad checks, justifying drunken behavior) I was sending him the message that it's okay to abuse your family ~ we will stay no matter how badly you treat us.
Then one fine day, I realized that I was not being treated with respect by my life partner. I was being lied to , I was being manipulated, I was being minimized (my feelings didn't count), and I was miserable.
I decided I wanted more for myself and my children.
I realized: My happiness matters, my life is important, and I am deserve respect as an equal in life.
When I finally got sick and tired of being sick and tired, I began to take steps toward a happier, healthier me. When the day came that I was finally ready to leave, my alcoholic husband told me he would get sober if I would stay.
I told him that was no longer enough. I thought I wanted him sober, but what I really wanted was to see him in active recovery that offered him life changing tools to deal with life without being an a**hole. I knew he wasn't ready to change. I continued with my plans for legally ending the relationship.
He did get sober and got an AA sponsor after I filed the legal papers, but I went ahead with my plans and accepted a job in another community. We thought we might get back together after he attained a year of sobriety and recovery. That was 4 years ago. Today he lives his life as he chooses and that still includes alcohol consumption.
My life is beautiful today. My partner in life is open, honest, and treats me with respect as an equal partner in life. He does not drink. We have a full social life and enjoy many exciting adventures together.
You asked about showing your partner these replys. I ask you to play that tape forward. What if he does go on a bender and starts to use your comments here against you in an effort to bring you down to his level? What is your motivation for sharing your recovery resource with him?
When my husband reached out to me for support in getting himself sober, I pulled up the AA schedule of meetings in his community and let him print it out from my printer. I told him that the best form of support is another male alcoholic with long term recovery under their belt. It would take another experienced alcoholic to relate to his issues and to call him out on his personal B.S. I could not do that as I had a history of being manipulated by his charms and lies.
He knew I had an online support group, but I did not bring that up on my computer for him. I did not want him to look at my history and discover my screen name, or my posts. This is my recovery resource.
If you choose to direct him to this wonderful resource, I suggest you write down the website address and direct him to the Newcomers Section and the Section for Alcoholism. Give him the power to pursue the resource on his own, with his own computer.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Recently though, he's been talking about trying to experiment with a few beers again - that he just wants to be "normal" and be able to have a couple drinks on nights out etc. he feels left out now and has convinced himself that he can handle alcohol if he takes it slowly.
I recognise those words, unfortunately my ExAP used to think/say the same thing after long bouts of sobriety but it never worked.Once the few beers were down he was unable to control it and it spiralled again.
We're not together anymore and alcohol is ultimately responsible for that but I've learnt that a 'normal' relationship with alcohol for an alcoholic just doesn't work.
Also that you can try your best to help, offer advice and support, beg, plead, lie down and die until they stop drinking or to remain sober but unless he wants to do it for himself then he won't and if he's committed to this then no amount of ribbing or feeling left behind will change his decision to refuse alcohol.
I recognise those words, unfortunately my ExAP used to think/say the same thing after long bouts of sobriety but it never worked.Once the few beers were down he was unable to control it and it spiralled again.
We're not together anymore and alcohol is ultimately responsible for that but I've learnt that a 'normal' relationship with alcohol for an alcoholic just doesn't work.
Also that you can try your best to help, offer advice and support, beg, plead, lie down and die until they stop drinking or to remain sober but unless he wants to do it for himself then he won't and if he's committed to this then no amount of ribbing or feeling left behind will change his decision to refuse alcohol.
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