Wdyt?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Southwest
Posts: 1,207
Wdyt?
XAH is narcissistic a-hole. Lives 3 hours away.
I have 3 children, and court order says I will enroll them in an activity (at XAH's insistence) and goes on to say that XAH is required to get them to the activity if he has custody at that time.
11 yr old DS is playing baseball. As you would expect, there are 2 games on XAH's Saturdays.
I asked XAH what I should do about those Saturdays and at first he said "just keep him with you."
Then he changed his mind and said I am to bring son (with other kids) to our meeting point and he isn't going to make son available for the games.
My friends haven't been through Al-anon. They say "Tell XAH how much your son loves baseball, how he wants his dad to see him play" (all true), but I know that he will use that as an opening to make everything MY fault and start a long hateful email diatribe against me and how selfish I am.
How far do you go in advocating for your kids with someone who is too self-absorbed to see beyond his own needs?
For me to plead with him on behalf of my son will only make me more miserable when he doesn't take advantage of seeing his kid play baseball.
WDYT?
I have 3 children, and court order says I will enroll them in an activity (at XAH's insistence) and goes on to say that XAH is required to get them to the activity if he has custody at that time.
11 yr old DS is playing baseball. As you would expect, there are 2 games on XAH's Saturdays.
I asked XAH what I should do about those Saturdays and at first he said "just keep him with you."
Then he changed his mind and said I am to bring son (with other kids) to our meeting point and he isn't going to make son available for the games.
My friends haven't been through Al-anon. They say "Tell XAH how much your son loves baseball, how he wants his dad to see him play" (all true), but I know that he will use that as an opening to make everything MY fault and start a long hateful email diatribe against me and how selfish I am.
How far do you go in advocating for your kids with someone who is too self-absorbed to see beyond his own needs?
For me to plead with him on behalf of my son will only make me more miserable when he doesn't take advantage of seeing his kid play baseball.
WDYT?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
Oh boy. Hmmmm.
Well I think I would allow the ex to step in s**t. Send him via email the games and the times.
If he doesn't take him then - you can always seek relief in court. Of course that is a hassle but it may be what you have to do.
I just wouldn't engage with him at all especially given the last incident with you being "late".
I dunno this is a tough one - I think if you don't give him the kids for his weekend he will retaliate. Lets see what others say that have been in the situation.
One thing though - when it comes to your ex I would make sure everything is in writing. no phone conversations. Text or email. You may need it at some time.
Well I think I would allow the ex to step in s**t. Send him via email the games and the times.
If he doesn't take him then - you can always seek relief in court. Of course that is a hassle but it may be what you have to do.
I just wouldn't engage with him at all especially given the last incident with you being "late".
I dunno this is a tough one - I think if you don't give him the kids for his weekend he will retaliate. Lets see what others say that have been in the situation.
One thing though - when it comes to your ex I would make sure everything is in writing. no phone conversations. Text or email. You may need it at some time.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Southwest
Posts: 1,207
Thank you for responding. It's definitely all in email. I'm constantly having to balance facilitating a relationship for my children's benefit (if any. Isn't that the question!) with doing the minimum for purposes of my serenity and peace of mind so that I can be a decent mom and not let him be all up in my head.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Does your son enjoy playing baseball? If so, I would do my best to make sure HE isn't making sacrifices because of XAH. If he's ok missing games while he's with XAH then so be it, but if it upsets him I'd keep him on those days & then deal with XAH if he resisted the idea.... in writing (like you said) & remind him that the activities were HIS idea to begin with.
But I wouldn't exert energy trying to convince him to take DS to the game if he doesn't understand why it's important in the first place, beyond emailing him the game times/requirements so that he has all the required info. Just my .02 & that's me & how I would treat it if it were MY husband.... I realize every situation is different.
But I wouldn't exert energy trying to convince him to take DS to the game if he doesn't understand why it's important in the first place, beyond emailing him the game times/requirements so that he has all the required info. Just my .02 & that's me & how I would treat it if it were MY husband.... I realize every situation is different.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Southwest
Posts: 1,207
Originally Posted by dandylion 
stella27, do you still have your lawyer?
I'm wondering if letting your lawyer talk to him thru HIS lawyer might not remove his wiggle-room to manipulate and hassle you?
Just a thought.
dandylion
I'm wondering if letting your lawyer talk to him thru HIS lawyer might not remove his wiggle-room to manipulate and hassle you?
Just a thought.
dandylion
I take 2 kids to meet him, tell him the third will be available after the game Saturday morning.
OR
I take all 3 kids to him, go to the game on Saturday a.m. and see if my kid is there (he won't be - why drive 3 hours on Friday evening to come back on Saturday morning?) and then he has failed to comply with the order.
Option #2 means the kid misses a game. I don't want that for him but it's not the end of the world, and it puts us on the fast track back to court, which may just be where we need to be.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,452
Yes, and Option 2 is you not trying to take control of AH, or of the situation. It lets the chips fall where they may, based on his actions.
If your son is feeling bad about potentially not making the game, could you talk to his coach and tell him it is not within your son's control since his Dad has custody that week?
ShootingStar1
If your son is feeling bad about potentially not making the game, could you talk to his coach and tell him it is not within your son's control since his Dad has custody that week?
ShootingStar1
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,407
I'd drop the kids off as scheduled. The understanding should be that son brings his stuff for the game. If your son misses the game, then you have ammo to change the arrangements legally. Let your EX explain to his son why he didn't hold up his end of the bargain. He won't be able to blame you.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
I have mixed feelings on this, having done things both ways with my NPD ex. FYI, my state custody guidelines advise that parents need to make best efforts to see that kids get to their extracurricular activities, especially as they get older. I never felt that these disagreements were legally actionable (we had FAR larger fish to fry), but that's me.
On the one hand, I agree that enabling him is bad news. With my ex, I made him aware of all dates and times and his responsibilities, as dictated by the custody agreement. Sometimes he complied and sometimes he didn't. Sometimes his compliance was really half-assed and sometimes he bypassed me and got my codependent, meddling mother to do transportation and costs for him (she was always more than happy to do so). If he *didn't* comply in whatever form, and I didn't pick up the slack, DS13 missed out. DS13's sporadic attendance at practices and lessons meant he missed out on activities he was *told* he would participate in and was looking forward to. Over the years, this led to the "death by a thousand cuts" disappointment effect that I'm dealing with now with DS13 in therapy. It's heartbreaking. Why get invested in anything if the adults in your life won't see that you get to do it?
A couple of years ago, I threw up my hands and decided that whatever it took to follow through on MY word with DS13 was what I would do. I stopped negotiating with the ex. I stopped arguing with him about whether he *could* take DS13 to events, or if he was just being lazy and obstinate. I took on the costs associated with whatever activity and did my best to arrange lessons on my days only, and remind DS13 and his dad of practices on weekends when he was at his dad's house. When his dad forgot and didn't follow through, I made zero excuses for him. When DS13 complained to me, I asked him to advocate for himself at his dad's house and remind about practices and bring up grievances if he had them. He does so intermittently, because he knows his dad doesn't really care what he thinks or how he feels.
I just feel that we are so limited. We can't control other people's schedules or priorities. While it breaks my heart to think my DS13 knows he's not a priority for his dad, I am limited on what I can do. I can only express my love and appreciation for him and see that I make my best efforts to see him succeed, regardless of what his dad does or doesn't do.
Best of luck.
On the one hand, I agree that enabling him is bad news. With my ex, I made him aware of all dates and times and his responsibilities, as dictated by the custody agreement. Sometimes he complied and sometimes he didn't. Sometimes his compliance was really half-assed and sometimes he bypassed me and got my codependent, meddling mother to do transportation and costs for him (she was always more than happy to do so). If he *didn't* comply in whatever form, and I didn't pick up the slack, DS13 missed out. DS13's sporadic attendance at practices and lessons meant he missed out on activities he was *told* he would participate in and was looking forward to. Over the years, this led to the "death by a thousand cuts" disappointment effect that I'm dealing with now with DS13 in therapy. It's heartbreaking. Why get invested in anything if the adults in your life won't see that you get to do it?
A couple of years ago, I threw up my hands and decided that whatever it took to follow through on MY word with DS13 was what I would do. I stopped negotiating with the ex. I stopped arguing with him about whether he *could* take DS13 to events, or if he was just being lazy and obstinate. I took on the costs associated with whatever activity and did my best to arrange lessons on my days only, and remind DS13 and his dad of practices on weekends when he was at his dad's house. When his dad forgot and didn't follow through, I made zero excuses for him. When DS13 complained to me, I asked him to advocate for himself at his dad's house and remind about practices and bring up grievances if he had them. He does so intermittently, because he knows his dad doesn't really care what he thinks or how he feels.
I just feel that we are so limited. We can't control other people's schedules or priorities. While it breaks my heart to think my DS13 knows he's not a priority for his dad, I am limited on what I can do. I can only express my love and appreciation for him and see that I make my best efforts to see him succeed, regardless of what his dad does or doesn't do.
Best of luck.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Southwest
Posts: 1,207
I know, Florence. I am torn. My situation is legally actionable only because we are operating on temporary orders - not final orders - and so a final hearing looms in front of us (not set, just pending indefinitely).
His codependent, enabling mother (same guy?) sat in with XH when they wrote the agreement, and they insisted that I place the kids in activities. Then, because it's inconvenient for XH, he is throwing a fit over my insistence that we comply with orders.
Saying that I know he could skip and since I won't agree, then he won't agree to something I want, and blah blah blah.
I really appreciate what you said about my son knowing he can count on me (child at issue is 11. Others are 10 and 5) and doing everything in my power to keep his life and his obligations a priority.
I left town in part to get away from people who believed that I was the nanny for their children and grandchildren and picked fights with me over everything I tried to do to run a smooth household, which was impossible with them having 2 nights of visitation every week in addition to every other weekend.
The one interfering with the children's doing activities was HIM, not ME, so them placing it in the order was an attempt to make sure I spent the child support $$ on the kids, not on me and my spa days. (haha, that's a joke, in case you didn't automatically see the humor in a single working mother of 3 hanging out at the spa).
My XH is (undiagnosed NPD - by me and other therapists) and Bipolar with an alcohol and drug problem. It's a lot of fun, let me tell you.
His codependent, enabling mother (same guy?) sat in with XH when they wrote the agreement, and they insisted that I place the kids in activities. Then, because it's inconvenient for XH, he is throwing a fit over my insistence that we comply with orders.
Saying that I know he could skip and since I won't agree, then he won't agree to something I want, and blah blah blah.
I really appreciate what you said about my son knowing he can count on me (child at issue is 11. Others are 10 and 5) and doing everything in my power to keep his life and his obligations a priority.
I left town in part to get away from people who believed that I was the nanny for their children and grandchildren and picked fights with me over everything I tried to do to run a smooth household, which was impossible with them having 2 nights of visitation every week in addition to every other weekend.
The one interfering with the children's doing activities was HIM, not ME, so them placing it in the order was an attempt to make sure I spent the child support $$ on the kids, not on me and my spa days. (haha, that's a joke, in case you didn't automatically see the humor in a single working mother of 3 hanging out at the spa).
My XH is (undiagnosed NPD - by me and other therapists) and Bipolar with an alcohol and drug problem. It's a lot of fun, let me tell you.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
I would personally stay out of it. Send the dates and times and no more.
His dad will either
a) take him
b) skip the game
c) speak to you about making arrangements.
This is you doing exactly what you need to do and the outcome is 100% your ex's. No arguing. No back and forth. 11yo will not feel in the middle of you two. May feel badly about how life turned out but that is not avoidable.
No murky areas for the courts to wade through. I believe this works in your favor if you would say...have the final orders say you are in charge of deciding which, if any, activities a child enrolls in out of your home. Once the final orders are in place, you can re-assess how you handle things.
I say this because my kids would not be devastated about missing two games. They were upset about dad flaking out (but that is a lesson that was actually much easier to learn once I stayed out of it), and way more upset by friction between parents and/or my own levels of frustration. Some kids would see that differently I imagine.
My ex has been out of the picture for a long time. He wants the boys for some time this summer. I'm wondering how they will feel about that as they get older. One boy would probably happily stay there all summer as I have different expectations/rules that are not as appealing. He doesn't spend much time hanging out with friends and can easily get lost in computers. The other one is going to miss his friends I think. The little boys won't be going. They are the one's I could really really use a break from for a few days. Single parenting is so relentless when there is never a break, not even a small one. They are so young and active and loud. I'm so old and tired, lol. He won't take them though - that would actually be work.
His dad will either
a) take him
b) skip the game
c) speak to you about making arrangements.
This is you doing exactly what you need to do and the outcome is 100% your ex's. No arguing. No back and forth. 11yo will not feel in the middle of you two. May feel badly about how life turned out but that is not avoidable.
No murky areas for the courts to wade through. I believe this works in your favor if you would say...have the final orders say you are in charge of deciding which, if any, activities a child enrolls in out of your home. Once the final orders are in place, you can re-assess how you handle things. I say this because my kids would not be devastated about missing two games. They were upset about dad flaking out (but that is a lesson that was actually much easier to learn once I stayed out of it), and way more upset by friction between parents and/or my own levels of frustration. Some kids would see that differently I imagine.
My ex has been out of the picture for a long time. He wants the boys for some time this summer. I'm wondering how they will feel about that as they get older. One boy would probably happily stay there all summer as I have different expectations/rules that are not as appealing. He doesn't spend much time hanging out with friends and can easily get lost in computers. The other one is going to miss his friends I think. The little boys won't be going. They are the one's I could really really use a break from for a few days. Single parenting is so relentless when there is never a break, not even a small one. They are so young and active and loud. I'm so old and tired, lol. He won't take them though - that would actually be work.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
