Got a letter
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 166
Got a letter
Was pretty surprised that i got a letter yesterday from my XAGF. She wrote it the day i found out she filed in family court to get joint custody of my kids. i found th eletter very sad....she kept saying she wanted "her family" back and would drop the court case and do anything. I would've liked so much to believe it, yet i know it is just quacking. I also know if she truly gave up contact her addict friends and family, she would only be angry at me in the long run. We have been in this dance of alcoholism and mental illness for 4 years. Her latest move has been a game changer, for no matter how much I think I love her and how much I want to believe that she can change and be good for me and my kids, the cost has become too much. I am dreading the weekend. I find it hard to distract myself like during the week. Last weekend was me being totally pathetic, trying to reach out to her. that was before I found out about family court. Now I vacillitate between anxiety that she might win, angery of how could she dare do this to me, to hurt...profound hurt. Anyway, just had to get this off my chest...so i don't do something stupid like unblock my number or call her.
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 178
The letter is a threat, so you should see it as that. Either take me back or I take your children. That's really what she's saying.
Has she been in trouble with the police for drinking-related offenses? If so, how can she win custody?
Has she been in trouble with the police for drinking-related offenses? If so, how can she win custody?
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
SO sorry the manipulation continues but its not surprising.
Just think about your kids and how their lives will be affected if they were raised in an alcoholic home. You gave XAGF far more chances than she should have received.
I would be very angry at her - you did so much for her and she turned around and is trying to get custody of YOUR children. That she would put them through that after all of this is cherry on cake - whose well being is she really looking out for here? Its not theirs. Does she really want custody of the kids? No - I don't think so. She spent very little time with them when she had availability to, she was much busier taking care of the other alcoholics she is involved with. So - this IMO is just her way to get back at you and it sucks.
Just think about your kids and how their lives will be affected if they were raised in an alcoholic home. You gave XAGF far more chances than she should have received.
I would be very angry at her - you did so much for her and she turned around and is trying to get custody of YOUR children. That she would put them through that after all of this is cherry on cake - whose well being is she really looking out for here? Its not theirs. Does she really want custody of the kids? No - I don't think so. She spent very little time with them when she had availability to, she was much busier taking care of the other alcoholics she is involved with. So - this IMO is just her way to get back at you and it sucks.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
She is a sick person doing what sick people do.
YOU, OTOH, are gaining some much-needed perspective. You've already been informed that she does not really have a legal leg to stand on.
Here's something else to consider. During my divorce, and my last breakup, I got legal "threats" from both guys that they would not cooperate, would drag things out, wanted more money, etc. I calmly told them both to do what they felt they had to do, but that I was going forward. They could respond as they wished.
Neither one of them had a dime for a lawyer, and it was all empty threats. Neither one of them lifted a finger when push came to shove. It was nothing but a ploy.
Now, if she had some heavy-duty resources, even if she didn't win, it could be an exhausting legal battle (potentially, anyway--even people with no legal rights can still wear you down with motions and crap before you can make the case go away). But in this case, it sounds as if no self-respecting lawyer is going to volunteer his/her time on such b.s., and it sounds like she isn't together enough to represent herself. My bet is that this is pure manipulation.
Keep breathing. You sound good today.
YOU, OTOH, are gaining some much-needed perspective. You've already been informed that she does not really have a legal leg to stand on.
Here's something else to consider. During my divorce, and my last breakup, I got legal "threats" from both guys that they would not cooperate, would drag things out, wanted more money, etc. I calmly told them both to do what they felt they had to do, but that I was going forward. They could respond as they wished.
Neither one of them had a dime for a lawyer, and it was all empty threats. Neither one of them lifted a finger when push came to shove. It was nothing but a ploy.
Now, if she had some heavy-duty resources, even if she didn't win, it could be an exhausting legal battle (potentially, anyway--even people with no legal rights can still wear you down with motions and crap before you can make the case go away). But in this case, it sounds as if no self-respecting lawyer is going to volunteer his/her time on such b.s., and it sounds like she isn't together enough to represent herself. My bet is that this is pure manipulation.
Keep breathing. You sound good today.
Today is a New Day
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,766
Keep the letter in a safe place. If she really did file it would be helpful to show her motives (even though from what you shared you won't need it).
If necessary it could also be used for harassment charges and such.
She's doing what she feels will keep things comfortable for her so she can continue with her addiction. It hurts, I know. It's what addicts do.
If necessary it could also be used for harassment charges and such.
She's doing what she feels will keep things comfortable for her so she can continue with her addiction. It hurts, I know. It's what addicts do.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Have you talked to a lawyer about getting that, um, inaccurate birth certificate corrected? It's an official record. The hospital has a record of who gave birth, and you stated that it was not legal to put her name on the certificate.
I think you should talk to a lawyer, first, because there is potentially a legal consequence for you as a result of doing that, but I'm betting that unless there is proof of intent to defraud anyone it isn't a huge deal.
I think you should talk to a lawyer, first, because there is potentially a legal consequence for you as a result of doing that, but I'm betting that unless there is proof of intent to defraud anyone it isn't a huge deal.
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Real World
Posts: 729
I am not a lawyer so can't advise and wouldn't without a better understanding of the facts.
Has she said or hopefully written anything threatening?
If you have no evidence that shes unbalanced and has a carry permit its tougher but in most states there are two devices used to inhibit bad behavior. The first is a temporary restraining order or TRO. the second is a protective order.
The first (TRO) is not as effective - violation of it is a civil matter and police won't enforce it but it could be useful, will explain why.
The second, a protective order is a big nasty club to swing, cops CAN enforce it and arrest someone on the spot for violating it.
Let's just put it out there... If mom or dad shows up to fetch a kid from the sitter with documentation and the sitter has no paperwork the cop can reasonably say he/she exercised common sense and allowed the person with a legal claim to take the kids....
But honey, those of us who've seen all manner of family court dramas unfold don't know what the hell to do when the other parent is mom's girlfriend... There just ain't a lot of precedent and those cops with enough smarts to understand the precedents are too smart to get in the middle of this one. You are going to want to help the cop and give him an out.
Disclaimer: I fully support same sex marriage, I see no reason that you should not suffer along with the rest if us ;-)
Ok, so let's help the poor cop out if this jam... If sitter has a restraining order stating that your ex is not to come to your place, or the sitters, or a school or anywhere else you have to leave the kids then the cop has two documents to look at. One that says birth mommy and other mommy, another that says other mommy is restrained, in person or through an agent, from coming within 100 yards of that house or coming to your residence without your ok, then he has one confusing doc and one clear one and can easily just tell her to go to court and come back when she has an order signed by a judge.
Now ...if you have a protective order and she shows up in violation of said order then her ass goes to jail, period. Cops can be fired for ignoring a protective order. DV is the biggest no no in family court.
Then there is door number three which can be used with either of the first two - if she comes by again you tell her, with recorder going, that she is trespassing and is not to come back without your written permission. That hurts but I suspect once the cubs are in harms way you can overcome the ickiness. After that, you call your local police and file a trespass warrant - this person is not to come on your property again. Cops may or may not arrest a violates but they will tell them to leave and threaten arrest if they return.
Finally, there's the easy way... Something my chess playing obsessive mind misses usually....
Go talk to your local PD and explain calmly that your XGF is not well and has made threats of taking your kids. Be calm and FACTUAL sans dramatic verbiage! Just let them know she has a birth cert that she made you out her name on but you are the birth mom and she has no biological connection and no statutory rights as a father would have. Let them know she has a CCP and you are worried when she is using. That ought to be enough for the local PD to flag the addresses and her name so the patrolman isn't forced to make a call.... His/her watch commander or captain will have made a note to lookout for this and tell the patrolmen not to do ANYTHING without calling it in. No cop with seniority is about to make the news by deciding this one the other way. Hopefully you are in a reasonably small community that is quiet enough for them to care.
....stop wondering, see if she has filed anything, it's probably a bluff. If she has and doesn't have millions in the bank I can non-advise you on how to run someone's legal bills into the six figures in a week or two but I bet this is either a bluff or else easily thrown out.
If there is no threat of violence or history of violence or documented threat to steal the kids you need a lawyer to craft the TRO - that's cheap... Maybe a grand to Ike it npd show up at the hearing (TRO are in effect either when signed or legally served but there is a hearing within usually 14 days for the restrained party to argue against it).
If there is any violence in her history or documented threat now you don't hire a lawyer, you call the DAs office and ask about the protective order. Then the state us paying your side and she has to hire a criminal attorney to defend it.
So this is complicated but a good lawyer (I won't make the dead lawyer reference here in deference to dear friend Lexie!). Should be able to help you make it really hard for her to pull any stunts.
Layman's opinion, assume I don't know what I'm talking about and ask a pro ;-)
Has she said or hopefully written anything threatening?
If you have no evidence that shes unbalanced and has a carry permit its tougher but in most states there are two devices used to inhibit bad behavior. The first is a temporary restraining order or TRO. the second is a protective order.
The first (TRO) is not as effective - violation of it is a civil matter and police won't enforce it but it could be useful, will explain why.
The second, a protective order is a big nasty club to swing, cops CAN enforce it and arrest someone on the spot for violating it.
Let's just put it out there... If mom or dad shows up to fetch a kid from the sitter with documentation and the sitter has no paperwork the cop can reasonably say he/she exercised common sense and allowed the person with a legal claim to take the kids....
But honey, those of us who've seen all manner of family court dramas unfold don't know what the hell to do when the other parent is mom's girlfriend... There just ain't a lot of precedent and those cops with enough smarts to understand the precedents are too smart to get in the middle of this one. You are going to want to help the cop and give him an out.
Disclaimer: I fully support same sex marriage, I see no reason that you should not suffer along with the rest if us ;-)
Ok, so let's help the poor cop out if this jam... If sitter has a restraining order stating that your ex is not to come to your place, or the sitters, or a school or anywhere else you have to leave the kids then the cop has two documents to look at. One that says birth mommy and other mommy, another that says other mommy is restrained, in person or through an agent, from coming within 100 yards of that house or coming to your residence without your ok, then he has one confusing doc and one clear one and can easily just tell her to go to court and come back when she has an order signed by a judge.
Now ...if you have a protective order and she shows up in violation of said order then her ass goes to jail, period. Cops can be fired for ignoring a protective order. DV is the biggest no no in family court.
Then there is door number three which can be used with either of the first two - if she comes by again you tell her, with recorder going, that she is trespassing and is not to come back without your written permission. That hurts but I suspect once the cubs are in harms way you can overcome the ickiness. After that, you call your local police and file a trespass warrant - this person is not to come on your property again. Cops may or may not arrest a violates but they will tell them to leave and threaten arrest if they return.
Finally, there's the easy way... Something my chess playing obsessive mind misses usually....
Go talk to your local PD and explain calmly that your XGF is not well and has made threats of taking your kids. Be calm and FACTUAL sans dramatic verbiage! Just let them know she has a birth cert that she made you out her name on but you are the birth mom and she has no biological connection and no statutory rights as a father would have. Let them know she has a CCP and you are worried when she is using. That ought to be enough for the local PD to flag the addresses and her name so the patrolman isn't forced to make a call.... His/her watch commander or captain will have made a note to lookout for this and tell the patrolmen not to do ANYTHING without calling it in. No cop with seniority is about to make the news by deciding this one the other way. Hopefully you are in a reasonably small community that is quiet enough for them to care.
....stop wondering, see if she has filed anything, it's probably a bluff. If she has and doesn't have millions in the bank I can non-advise you on how to run someone's legal bills into the six figures in a week or two but I bet this is either a bluff or else easily thrown out.
If there is no threat of violence or history of violence or documented threat to steal the kids you need a lawyer to craft the TRO - that's cheap... Maybe a grand to Ike it npd show up at the hearing (TRO are in effect either when signed or legally served but there is a hearing within usually 14 days for the restrained party to argue against it).
If there is any violence in her history or documented threat now you don't hire a lawyer, you call the DAs office and ask about the protective order. Then the state us paying your side and she has to hire a criminal attorney to defend it.
So this is complicated but a good lawyer (I won't make the dead lawyer reference here in deference to dear friend Lexie!). Should be able to help you make it really hard for her to pull any stunts.
Layman's opinion, assume I don't know what I'm talking about and ask a pro ;-)
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 166
Poh, thank you for the detailed explanation. I will have to read it again. I have learned that if she comes to my home I can call the police. I believe they consider it harassment. They only child she would have any possibility of taking is my son...d/t the birth certificate. I am seeing the referee Friday to get a TPO for him. That way if she comes to my house with the police when I am gone, they will not let her take him. Once the court decides against her for custody/visitation wouldn't that be enough to prevent her from taking him in the future? The supreme court seems overwhelming. The lawyer I spoke to doesn't seem to think its necessary and every legal agency I spoke to vital statistics, family court, is totally puzzled. I know she has filed. No doubt in my mind. She was overheard talking about it the day she walked in my house. I called the court and they are backed up by 12 weeks. I am expecting her to do something stupid soon since she has never gone more than 10 days without contact.
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
The Supreme Court? Are you sure about that?
This is statewide pretty much the same process. You should be able to contact your State office of Vital Statistics and ask them - the petition is traditionally for paternity - but you should be able to file within your state or superior courts. The marriage was false - gf will have the opportunity to submit a DNA test - no marriage, no biological connection. Court will give you a decree which you submit to the Office of Vital Statistics and gf name will be removed from the BC.
Should be easy honestly - there is nothing for her to fight you with.
This is statewide pretty much the same process. You should be able to contact your State office of Vital Statistics and ask them - the petition is traditionally for paternity - but you should be able to file within your state or superior courts. The marriage was false - gf will have the opportunity to submit a DNA test - no marriage, no biological connection. Court will give you a decree which you submit to the Office of Vital Statistics and gf name will be removed from the BC.
Should be easy honestly - there is nothing for her to fight you with.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I'm guessing you are in NY where the trial-level courts are called the "Supreme Court". In most States the Supreme Court is the highest appellate Court in the State and does not get involved in disputes like this.
I used to give legal advice to police officers responding to DV situations, including child custody disputes. We routinely advised them that unless the child is in immediate danger, never to physically take a child from a parent. Even if there is a violation of the custody order. If appropriate, the child protective services agency should be contacted.
patty, I would suggest that you advise any babysitters or child care providers of the issue and instruct them to refuse to release the child to anyone but you. In fact, I would leave them with a copy of the hospital birth certificate (the one showing you are the mother), along with a typewritten explanation of why the ex's name is on the filed birth certificate. That may be your best protection in the absence of an Order, but I would sure get an Order ASAP.
Just a thought, have you looked into LGBT groups in your area? They may have a list of attorneys willing to do pro bono work for issues like this.
I used to give legal advice to police officers responding to DV situations, including child custody disputes. We routinely advised them that unless the child is in immediate danger, never to physically take a child from a parent. Even if there is a violation of the custody order. If appropriate, the child protective services agency should be contacted.
patty, I would suggest that you advise any babysitters or child care providers of the issue and instruct them to refuse to release the child to anyone but you. In fact, I would leave them with a copy of the hospital birth certificate (the one showing you are the mother), along with a typewritten explanation of why the ex's name is on the filed birth certificate. That may be your best protection in the absence of an Order, but I would sure get an Order ASAP.
Just a thought, have you looked into LGBT groups in your area? They may have a list of attorneys willing to do pro bono work for issues like this.
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