Not sure if I belong here
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 8
Not sure if I belong here
This is my first-ever post in this forum,and I am not sure if I belong.
I have been married for almost 20 years to my husband who has been sober for about 30 years. I did not know him when he was drinking.
In recent years things have become very difficult. I am sure he suffers from anxiety but he has been on anti-depressants only briefly because they interact badly with the painkillers he takes for his knees.
We have 2 teenage sons, and for most of our marriage, he has been happy to let me do my own thing as long as the kids were with me. TaeKwonDo, Boy Scouts, School. Doctors. Haircuts. All my domain. I also work full-time as a middle achool teacher. Now he is feeling left out and has become increasingly controlling.
My kids are old enough so that I can do some things that I enjoy. Bible study at church. Mass in the mornings. Coffee with friends. He is most distressed by my relationship with God and anything I do associated with the church. (He attends the same church and is welcome to participate in any of these activities, but chooses not to.)
Right now I am in the "dog house" because the boys and I went to the parish gumbo yesterday and stayed to help clean up, and in the evening I returned for our yearly Christmas musical program. He could have come to either, but refused.
In August we went to a Retrouvaille weekend (like Marriage Encounter, but for hurting marriages). The main thing he came away with was that the priest supposedly told him ( during confession) that he is supposed to "be the leader" of the family and that if he is home, I should be at home. This just sounds all wrong to me. No one else on the Retrouvaille program put forth this view. I can understand cultivating some common interests, date nights, etc, but to be on what amounts to house arrest...Lord, take me now.
We did some dialogue - sharing of feelings - when working the Retrouvaille program. Almost every dialogue turned into him explaining what it was like to grow up with an alcoholic family or how the roles in an alcoholic family work. He never did cope very well with me sharing feelings that were unpleasant or different from his, and at one point compared my belief that God cares for us to an alcoholic's belief that everything is made OK by a drink. That might have been our last dialogue.
Because of the frequency with which alcoholism came up during our dialogues, I am wondering if Al-Anon would be helpful to me. As I said, I don't know if I belong here or not. There are so many issues at play. I know, though, that the attempts to control what I do, etc, are a relatively new thing the last few years...I would never have signed up for that. If you've made it this far, I would welcome some gentle feedback.
I do have to say that I have a wonderful priest who is most encouraging that God did not make me to be a doormat, and who agrees that my family is not being negatively impacted by my outside activities (most of which are church related). My husband, however, insists that the family (him) is being "splintered" by me and my relationship with God, and thinks he should 'hold me back'.
Anyway...Sorry to be so wordy.
I have been married for almost 20 years to my husband who has been sober for about 30 years. I did not know him when he was drinking.
In recent years things have become very difficult. I am sure he suffers from anxiety but he has been on anti-depressants only briefly because they interact badly with the painkillers he takes for his knees.
We have 2 teenage sons, and for most of our marriage, he has been happy to let me do my own thing as long as the kids were with me. TaeKwonDo, Boy Scouts, School. Doctors. Haircuts. All my domain. I also work full-time as a middle achool teacher. Now he is feeling left out and has become increasingly controlling.
My kids are old enough so that I can do some things that I enjoy. Bible study at church. Mass in the mornings. Coffee with friends. He is most distressed by my relationship with God and anything I do associated with the church. (He attends the same church and is welcome to participate in any of these activities, but chooses not to.)
Right now I am in the "dog house" because the boys and I went to the parish gumbo yesterday and stayed to help clean up, and in the evening I returned for our yearly Christmas musical program. He could have come to either, but refused.
In August we went to a Retrouvaille weekend (like Marriage Encounter, but for hurting marriages). The main thing he came away with was that the priest supposedly told him ( during confession) that he is supposed to "be the leader" of the family and that if he is home, I should be at home. This just sounds all wrong to me. No one else on the Retrouvaille program put forth this view. I can understand cultivating some common interests, date nights, etc, but to be on what amounts to house arrest...Lord, take me now.
We did some dialogue - sharing of feelings - when working the Retrouvaille program. Almost every dialogue turned into him explaining what it was like to grow up with an alcoholic family or how the roles in an alcoholic family work. He never did cope very well with me sharing feelings that were unpleasant or different from his, and at one point compared my belief that God cares for us to an alcoholic's belief that everything is made OK by a drink. That might have been our last dialogue.
Because of the frequency with which alcoholism came up during our dialogues, I am wondering if Al-Anon would be helpful to me. As I said, I don't know if I belong here or not. There are so many issues at play. I know, though, that the attempts to control what I do, etc, are a relatively new thing the last few years...I would never have signed up for that. If you've made it this far, I would welcome some gentle feedback.
I do have to say that I have a wonderful priest who is most encouraging that God did not make me to be a doormat, and who agrees that my family is not being negatively impacted by my outside activities (most of which are church related). My husband, however, insists that the family (him) is being "splintered" by me and my relationship with God, and thinks he should 'hold me back'.
Anyway...Sorry to be so wordy.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: New England
Posts: 350
Hi Takecourage, and welcome.
Alanon may or may not be right for you. I think it could be very positive for you in that you will be encouraged and supported in continuing to take care of yourself. I would suggest reading up on alcoholism and alcoholic families, for sure. Perhaps you could look into some form of counseling together or individually. Any chance that he would agree to meet with you and your priest?
One of the continuing themes here is that we can't control others, only ourselves. That applies whether or not your husband's current issue has anything to do with his personal and family history of alcoholism.
Others will be along with wisdom to share, probably lots more of it than I've got!
Take care.
edited to finish a sentence.
Alanon may or may not be right for you. I think it could be very positive for you in that you will be encouraged and supported in continuing to take care of yourself. I would suggest reading up on alcoholism and alcoholic families, for sure. Perhaps you could look into some form of counseling together or individually. Any chance that he would agree to meet with you and your priest?
One of the continuing themes here is that we can't control others, only ourselves. That applies whether or not your husband's current issue has anything to do with his personal and family history of alcoholism.
Others will be along with wisdom to share, probably lots more of it than I've got!
Take care.
edited to finish a sentence.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
What you are describing are power and control dynamics which are the dynamics that underlie abuse, not the spiritual role of a husband as biblically described.
Isolating you is a power and control abusive maneuver.
I find it odd that this would come about out of the blue after so many years.
Some forms of abuse can seem very subtle.
I'd advise looking into and learning about abuse.
It's also very easy to become addicted to painkillers and continue to take them beyond the point when they are necessary.
If one needs antidepressants, that's not really something to just forego.
Isolating you is a power and control abusive maneuver.
I find it odd that this would come about out of the blue after so many years.
Some forms of abuse can seem very subtle.
I'd advise looking into and learning about abuse.
It's also very easy to become addicted to painkillers and continue to take them beyond the point when they are necessary.
If one needs antidepressants, that's not really something to just forego.
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
Of course you belong here!!! Welcome to Sober Recovery. I am glad you found
us, but sorry for the reason you had to.
I wouldn't be surprised if one day when you are cleaning out closets, or linen
closet or something, that you do not find a bottle.
Sounds like your AH is either struggling with his sobriety and is setting himself
up to drink (yes an alcoholic can relapse after many years of recovry) or is
already imbibing a bit.
The control 'issues' are just not acceptable, for either you or your sons. IF he
has not been this way in the past, then it could very well be, 'i have lost control
of my alcoholism, so I have to prove to myself i still have some 'controls' in
my life.'
Anyway, check out ALL the 'stickys' at the top of this forum, start reading some
of the threads.
Please keep posting and let us know how YOU and Your boys are doing as we do
care very much.
Love and hugs,
us, but sorry for the reason you had to.
I wouldn't be surprised if one day when you are cleaning out closets, or linen
closet or something, that you do not find a bottle.
Sounds like your AH is either struggling with his sobriety and is setting himself
up to drink (yes an alcoholic can relapse after many years of recovry) or is
already imbibing a bit.
The control 'issues' are just not acceptable, for either you or your sons. IF he
has not been this way in the past, then it could very well be, 'i have lost control
of my alcoholism, so I have to prove to myself i still have some 'controls' in
my life.'
Anyway, check out ALL the 'stickys' at the top of this forum, start reading some
of the threads.
Please keep posting and let us know how YOU and Your boys are doing as we do
care very much.
Love and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 138
In August we went to a Retrouvaille weekend (like Marriage Encounter, but for hurting marriages). The main thing he came away with was that the priest supposedly told him ( during confession) that he is supposed to "be the leader" of the family and that if he is home, I should be at home. This just sounds all wrong to me. No one else on the Retrouvaille program put forth this view. I can understand cultivating some common interests, date nights, etc, but to be on what amounts to house arrest...Lord, take me now.
As a Catholic myself, I highly doubt the priest told him that. That may have been something that a clergy may have said a generation ago, but clergy today know that women have jobs, hobbies, outside demands, etc, that will require them to be away from the house sometimes when the husband is home.
More likely this is what happened: After your H heard that he's the spiritual leader of the family, your H probably said something like, "Well, when I'm home, I expect my wife to be there, too." The priest may not have said anything in response, and your H took that as an agreement.
My AH used to say all kinds of things to his therapists, and they wouldn't counter what he was saying, so he (wrongly) assumed that they agreed with him. AH would then come home and say, "My therapist agrees that you're _____________". One time he came home and said, "My therapist thinks you're crazy." I immediately emailed his therapist and complained. His therapist responded with, "I have never said that you're crazy."
That said, if this priest is available for communication. You can contact him and ask him if it's his opinion that the wife should be home whenever the husband is home. You don't need to include any mention of the confession since he can't talk about that particularly. However, he can provide HIS opinion about women needing to be home when the H is home...and then you'll have your answer.
If you can communicate with this priest by email, that would be better since you'd have a record of his response.
Again, just keep it simple. Just ask what his opinion is of the following: If the man is the leader of the family, does that mean that the wife should/must be home whenever her husband is at home? If so, does that mean that the wife cannot participate in parish activities or attend children's sports/activities when the husband is at home?
Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
My BS meter just says "full of it".
marriage is not a hostage taking relationship,
there's an AA pamphlet that describes the King baby which seems to fit here.
Well, you are not his mommy who needs to babysit him.
marriage is not a hostage taking relationship,
there's an AA pamphlet that describes the King baby which seems to fit here.
Well, you are not his mommy who needs to babysit him.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 138
I tried to find the AA Baby King pamphlet. Anyone have a link?
Back to the OP...
I have known two friends whose husbands insisted/demanded that the wives be home when they were home. This meant that they couldn't go to a monthly Bunco group, or any other function that was held in the evening or weekend that didn't include the H. That is just ridiculous. Both of the H's didn't care what their wives did during the day, but had this weird rule that the wives must be home when they were home. Odd.
I know that my AH never really liked it when I would be gone when he'd be home, but thankfully he had enough sense (not much...lol) to know that he couldn't decree that I must be home when he was home. After all, he'd often go golfing, to the gym, etc, whenever he wanted.
There was a time when I volunteered one night a week during an election season (about 12 weeks). My H didn't like being alone those nights, so he eventually decided to go with me. That was fine.
Back to the OP...
I have known two friends whose husbands insisted/demanded that the wives be home when they were home. This meant that they couldn't go to a monthly Bunco group, or any other function that was held in the evening or weekend that didn't include the H. That is just ridiculous. Both of the H's didn't care what their wives did during the day, but had this weird rule that the wives must be home when they were home. Odd.
I know that my AH never really liked it when I would be gone when he'd be home, but thankfully he had enough sense (not much...lol) to know that he couldn't decree that I must be home when he was home. After all, he'd often go golfing, to the gym, etc, whenever he wanted.
There was a time when I volunteered one night a week during an election season (about 12 weeks). My H didn't like being alone those nights, so he eventually decided to go with me. That was fine.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Originally Posted by laurie6781 
I wouldn't be surprised if one day when you are cleaning out closets, or linen
closet or something, that you do not find a bottle.
Sounds like your AH is either struggling with his sobriety and is setting himself
up to drink (yes an alcoholic can relapse after many years of recovry) or is
already imbibing a bit.
The control 'issues' are just not acceptable, for either you or your sons. IF he
has not been this way in the past, then it could very well be, 'i have lost control
of my alcoholism, so I have to prove to myself i still have some 'controls' in
my life.'
closet or something, that you do not find a bottle.
Sounds like your AH is either struggling with his sobriety and is setting himself
up to drink (yes an alcoholic can relapse after many years of recovry) or is
already imbibing a bit.
The control 'issues' are just not acceptable, for either you or your sons. IF he
has not been this way in the past, then it could very well be, 'i have lost control
of my alcoholism, so I have to prove to myself i still have some 'controls' in
my life.'
I think program like Al-Anon can be beneficial to anyone who wants to take some time to get introspective! Learn some new skills for coping with life's challenges, whatever they may be. Give it a try - you've got nothing to lose at this point.
My ex husband used to tell me he felt "left out" and "not included" in family things - be it activities or decisions, etc. And like yours, he didn't choose to participate in them to begin with. It was a no-win situation can make one crazy if we let it. I personally think its an unconscious way to create and maintain a certain level of conflict in the family so other issues get overlooked, hence my agreeing with Laurie on her post.
Keep reading here, and keep coming back! Lots of wisdom in this forum.
~T
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Hello takecourage, and pleased to "meet" you 
No worries You are most welcome here and I am glad you decided to join us. As far as the "alcoholics" in the title of this forum; that's a very broad label designed to help us have a semblance of organization in a website with 100,000 members. If you take a little time to browse around here you will see that the central issue is _not_ the chemical that our partners consume, it is their _behavior_ towards us that is the central issue.
Regardless of what chemical they take, how much, how often, whether they quit last week or 50 years ago, or have never quit, it's the _damage_ they cause that brings us all together in this forum and in organizations like Al-anon, Nar-Anon, etc.
Welcome again, I hope you find a measure of comfort and support here.
Mike
Moderator, SoberRecovery
Originally Posted by takecourage
This is my first-ever post in this forum,and I am not sure if I belong....
You are most welcome here and I am glad you decided to join us. As far as the "alcoholics" in the title of this forum; that's a very broad label designed to help us have a semblance of organization in a website with 100,000 members. If you take a little time to browse around here you will see that the central issue is _not_ the chemical that our partners consume, it is their _behavior_ towards us that is the central issue.Regardless of what chemical they take, how much, how often, whether they quit last week or 50 years ago, or have never quit, it's the _damage_ they cause that brings us all together in this forum and in organizations like Al-anon, Nar-Anon, etc.
Welcome again, I hope you find a measure of comfort and support here.
Mike
Moderator, SoberRecovery
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 8
Thanks for all the kind words and welcomes.
To answer a few questions and/or make a few comments...
Mike, that's kind of what I figured as far as belonging. It is perhaps a little misleading to read some of the questions relating to "is Alanon right for me?" They all start with the other person's drinking The drinking hasn't been a part of my life, but the damage of alcoholism very much seems to be.
To those who expressed concern about a relapse...quite possibly. I don't think it's alcohol, but the prescription pain meds. He takes Lortabs and Tramadol. Both prescribed by a pain management doctor, and he does genuinely seem to be concerned about not abusing them. Last summer he got off the Tramadol (the supposedly non-addictive pain killer) in order that he could take the anti-depressant. The doctor didn't think to tell him to wean off of it, and the withdrawals weren't much fun. However, the pain killer that was prescribed in the place of Tramadol just didn't do the job, so he went back to the Tramadol just a few weeks ago. :-( He has chronic knee pain - arthritis in both knees; needs to have knee replacements.
Last spring, he had a "moment". When I off-handedly mentioned something about going to Bible Study later that evening, he went from cooking supper to putting on his shoes and socks and storming out of the house in about 3 minutes. The kids and I just watched increduously. If it wouldn't have been serious, it would have been funny. I DID go to Bible Study that evening (worrying that he would storm in like a crazy fool), and when I got home, I gathered every medicine he has and looked up side effects. Several with "mood or mental changes". Then I googled "Anxiety" and the description of Generalized Anxiety Disorder fit him to a "T". Even the kids said, "That's Dad!" When on anti-depressants things are slightly better, but there is still a tension.
There have been signs of anxiety for years - like when he worked at night and listened to all manner of late night talk radio and he woke me up one night to tell me that a meteorite was going to crash into the earth in 18 months or some such thing.
It would be possible to email the priest that was at Retrouvaille and pose that question. I have thought about doing so, but I know I would have been more wordy. I don't have his email address immediately handy and don't remember his name - he was from out-of-state, but I'm sure I could track it down.
The whole "you need to be home when I'm home" thing is just ridiculous! I have been participating in the various Bible Studies that are presented at my parish for 5 years, and it has never been a problem until now. They meet one night a week for 90 minutes for about 20 weeks a year. I enjoy them and benefit from them immensely. I asked him to com to the one that is starting in January, but he flailed around grabbing for every excuse he could think of. He already thinks he knows everything, so why would he possibly need to go someplace, shut his mouth , and listen?
The hostage reference...when I first met him, he and some of his AA buddies would joke about using women as hostages. I never really "got" what they were saying...never really felt it. Until lately. Those conversations keep coming back. Would love to see the pamphlet about the King Baby.
At the Retrouvaille weekend, there was a big emphasis on couples who live a "married singles" lifestyle. For a long time, I would say that he was a single man living in a family, since all of the responsibilities fell to me. Now he has decreed that my interests that take me outside of the home (except for work) are contributing to us living a married singles lifestyle. The hours and hours and hours that he spends either watching football or sleeping seem to be exempted because they take place within the house.
We did a little bit of counseling last summer before going to Retrouvaille. It had limited impact, if any. It was so hard to arrange it around his schedule, which is non-existent. He is on-call 24/7, so if someone calls, he needs to be available. (This is another issue, because it is impossible to depend on him for anything in advance.) I had wanted to utilize some of the resources that our Diocese has for marriage and family, since my "fanatical" practice of religion seems to be a problem, but he didn't want anyone religious, because they might take my side. I'm sure if he showed up in the confessional with our priest to discuss some of our issues, there would be an interesting conversation, but he refers ongoing counseling to others.
And the abuse angle. He has never/would never lay a hand on me. However the emotional - the silent treatment, the guilt, the rude comments, the irrational stuff - it's there.
Thank all of you for being the light of reason and sanity. I am glad to have found a welcoming, down-to-earth place.
To answer a few questions and/or make a few comments...
Mike, that's kind of what I figured as far as belonging. It is perhaps a little misleading to read some of the questions relating to "is Alanon right for me?" They all start with the other person's drinking The drinking hasn't been a part of my life, but the damage of alcoholism very much seems to be.
To those who expressed concern about a relapse...quite possibly. I don't think it's alcohol, but the prescription pain meds. He takes Lortabs and Tramadol. Both prescribed by a pain management doctor, and he does genuinely seem to be concerned about not abusing them. Last summer he got off the Tramadol (the supposedly non-addictive pain killer) in order that he could take the anti-depressant. The doctor didn't think to tell him to wean off of it, and the withdrawals weren't much fun. However, the pain killer that was prescribed in the place of Tramadol just didn't do the job, so he went back to the Tramadol just a few weeks ago. :-( He has chronic knee pain - arthritis in both knees; needs to have knee replacements.
Last spring, he had a "moment". When I off-handedly mentioned something about going to Bible Study later that evening, he went from cooking supper to putting on his shoes and socks and storming out of the house in about 3 minutes. The kids and I just watched increduously. If it wouldn't have been serious, it would have been funny. I DID go to Bible Study that evening (worrying that he would storm in like a crazy fool), and when I got home, I gathered every medicine he has and looked up side effects. Several with "mood or mental changes". Then I googled "Anxiety" and the description of Generalized Anxiety Disorder fit him to a "T". Even the kids said, "That's Dad!" When on anti-depressants things are slightly better, but there is still a tension.
There have been signs of anxiety for years - like when he worked at night and listened to all manner of late night talk radio and he woke me up one night to tell me that a meteorite was going to crash into the earth in 18 months or some such thing.
It would be possible to email the priest that was at Retrouvaille and pose that question. I have thought about doing so, but I know I would have been more wordy. I don't have his email address immediately handy and don't remember his name - he was from out-of-state, but I'm sure I could track it down.
The whole "you need to be home when I'm home" thing is just ridiculous! I have been participating in the various Bible Studies that are presented at my parish for 5 years, and it has never been a problem until now. They meet one night a week for 90 minutes for about 20 weeks a year. I enjoy them and benefit from them immensely. I asked him to com to the one that is starting in January, but he flailed around grabbing for every excuse he could think of. He already thinks he knows everything, so why would he possibly need to go someplace, shut his mouth , and listen?
The hostage reference...when I first met him, he and some of his AA buddies would joke about using women as hostages. I never really "got" what they were saying...never really felt it. Until lately. Those conversations keep coming back. Would love to see the pamphlet about the King Baby.
At the Retrouvaille weekend, there was a big emphasis on couples who live a "married singles" lifestyle. For a long time, I would say that he was a single man living in a family, since all of the responsibilities fell to me. Now he has decreed that my interests that take me outside of the home (except for work) are contributing to us living a married singles lifestyle. The hours and hours and hours that he spends either watching football or sleeping seem to be exempted because they take place within the house.
We did a little bit of counseling last summer before going to Retrouvaille. It had limited impact, if any. It was so hard to arrange it around his schedule, which is non-existent. He is on-call 24/7, so if someone calls, he needs to be available. (This is another issue, because it is impossible to depend on him for anything in advance.) I had wanted to utilize some of the resources that our Diocese has for marriage and family, since my "fanatical" practice of religion seems to be a problem, but he didn't want anyone religious, because they might take my side. I'm sure if he showed up in the confessional with our priest to discuss some of our issues, there would be an interesting conversation, but he refers ongoing counseling to others.
And the abuse angle. He has never/would never lay a hand on me. However the emotional - the silent treatment, the guilt, the rude comments, the irrational stuff - it's there.
Thank all of you for being the light of reason and sanity. I am glad to have found a welcoming, down-to-earth place.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
I am not familiar with a pamphlet from AA on the subject. I know of one from Hazelden. If you are not familiar with Hazelden it is one of the largest addiction recovery centers in the USA. They have a solid reputation and, in my personal opinion, very good literature. I do have to note that Hazelden _is_ an advertiser here on SR. Yours truly is an _unpaid_ volunteer so there is no conflict of interest.
King Baby -- Hazelden
Mike
Moderator, SR
King Baby -- Hazelden
Mike
Moderator, SR
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-syndrome.html
From an older post...King Baby Syndrome explained.
From an older post...King Baby Syndrome explained.
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