Is 'I love you' always a lie?
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Is 'I love you' always a lie?
Dear Members (and especially Bobcat)....after reading through all the posts and comments especially pertaining to 'Is there every hope of a loving relationship' and 'detaching from love'..... and especially Bobcat's last comment to my post about 'is it really that bad'?? It is beginning to dawn on me that if I am to keep myself in one piece in this life - and to have the best life possible and to bring up my son in the best way possible - that I need to walk away from H...after so many, many years - and not all of addiction - some wonderful memories and also to walk away from all the times that H has been there for me too (it is not always about his addiction) - after my beautiful 23 year old brother was killed in a car crash along with his girlfriend - H phoned me everday for almost a year - and even helped pay for the funeral - his support of me and my family was unbelievable and constant! My heart is breaking. H arrives in my country tomorrow (to see me and to explain himself) - but listening to all of you - I need to take this chance to break the contact. So I am not going to meet with him...this is a first in all the years we have known each other!! I feel I am betraying him. I just want to ask one thing....is is true that even though H tells me he loves me, I am the love of his life - that these words can never be true coming from an addict? Can an addict never love? Or a recovering addict? How absolutely tragic! I feel I have wasted so many years - I truly believed H - I believed his love, not just because the words came from his lips - but because of his actions...that when my brother was killed he got on a plane to be with my family....that when my business was really struggling after my dad died, that he helped me financially without not wanting a cent back - and without ever holding it against me.... that I can call him at 3am to ask his advice....that if my car breaks down, he sends his driver to help....that he never forgets my birthdays, or my brother's birthday - that he always remembers those sad days - and always is there with a laugh and a smile on his beautiful face....i will miss H forever!
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Lara, You may get different opinions on this,this, is how I feel about it , I believe my AH loves me to the best of his ability to love, however his ability is not very much when he tells me he loves me I believe that I also know I need someone who can give their love fully right now he can't.
Now a true RA,IMO can love in a healthy way.
IMO,your doing the right thing and trust me I know the pain,confusion and all about feeling like so many years were wasted. I no longer see the years as wasted I see them as lessons I needed. I am not 100 percent no contact but usually only hear frommy AH about once a month.
Now a true RA,IMO can love in a healthy way.
IMO,your doing the right thing and trust me I know the pain,confusion and all about feeling like so many years were wasted. I no longer see the years as wasted I see them as lessons I needed. I am not 100 percent no contact but usually only hear frommy AH about once a month.
Living in a Pinkful Place
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 7,545
I do believe that some alcoholics/addicts truly mean "i love you" when they say it ~ the disease just keeps them from living out all the true meanings of those words ~
I have seen several couples that truly LOVED each other fight thru this disease to continue to make their relationship work in recovery, thru relapses and many other difficult things ~
I believe this is also not always the case ~ as in my situation with my ex ah ~ i believe he loved the idea of what our marriage was suppose to be ~ the "front" that it gave him of being a family man with a relationship with his daughters & family ~ how I allowed it to provide cover from the ugliness of his addictions ~ did he truly LOVE me?
NO, I don't believe he did ~
I wish you strength, courage and wisdom as you seek what is healthy & recovery oriented for you & your life ~ it's not always easy - but remember you do deserve peace, serenity, safety & sanity in all areas of your life ~
PINK HUGS,
Rita
I have seen several couples that truly LOVED each other fight thru this disease to continue to make their relationship work in recovery, thru relapses and many other difficult things ~
I believe this is also not always the case ~ as in my situation with my ex ah ~ i believe he loved the idea of what our marriage was suppose to be ~ the "front" that it gave him of being a family man with a relationship with his daughters & family ~ how I allowed it to provide cover from the ugliness of his addictions ~ did he truly LOVE me?
NO, I don't believe he did ~
I wish you strength, courage and wisdom as you seek what is healthy & recovery oriented for you & your life ~ it's not always easy - but remember you do deserve peace, serenity, safety & sanity in all areas of your life ~
PINK HUGS,
Rita
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Like crazybabie, I believe that they love to the best of their ability. Codependents love to the best of their ability too. And often, people can be addicts and codependent (there are several of those "double winners" on this forum) at the same time.
Codependents often love "with strings attached". I can look at my own behaviors in the height of my own codependency and see how very true that can be. It doesn't mean that a codependent person doesn't love, they just don't love in a healthy way. The same is true with addicts. I do believe they love.....just not in a healthy way. For me it was an UNSTATED expectation of the addict......if I do ________ for you, I expect you to ________ (behave in a certain manner, respond in a certain manner, or change in a certain manner).
It is up to each of us to recognize when love is healthy and when love is destructive. Unfortunately, when we are in the middle of something, it's very very difficult to determine because we are as much a part of the unhealthy dynamic as the addict.
gentle hugs
ke
Codependents often love "with strings attached". I can look at my own behaviors in the height of my own codependency and see how very true that can be. It doesn't mean that a codependent person doesn't love, they just don't love in a healthy way. The same is true with addicts. I do believe they love.....just not in a healthy way. For me it was an UNSTATED expectation of the addict......if I do ________ for you, I expect you to ________ (behave in a certain manner, respond in a certain manner, or change in a certain manner).
It is up to each of us to recognize when love is healthy and when love is destructive. Unfortunately, when we are in the middle of something, it's very very difficult to determine because we are as much a part of the unhealthy dynamic as the addict.
gentle hugs
ke
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Originally Posted by MsPINKAcres 
I believe this is also not always the case ~ as in my situation with my ex ah ~ i believe he loved the idea of what our marriage was suppose to be ~ the "front" that it gave him of being a family man with a relationship with his daughters & family ~ how I allowed it to provide cover from the ugliness of his addictions ~ did he truly LOVE me?
Rita, thank you for putting into words how I feel! Wow!
Hugs!
Marlene
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Hi Angie (Crazybabie) I really appreciate all your input - and time taken to answer me - I feel at this stage that all I am doing is asking for advice - and not giving much out at this stage!!!! Thank you so much
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Your words bring a little peace... thank you Katiekate...are you speaking from experience of being the non-addict partner or the addict? Do any addicts respond to our questions in this forum or only the non - addicts? I would be so interested to hear what an addict would say?
Let go and Let God!
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Lara, I am a recovering addict. I am going to be honest here.
When I was using I meant it when I said I love you to my ex. I did everything I could to show it. The problem was that my next high was more important. I didn't let anything stand in the way of my next high. I hurt him more than I showed love.
When I was using, I truely believed I loved my ex. The problem was I could only love to the best of my ability, which wasn't very much.
I have been clean for 9 years. As a recovering addict, I can love so much more. I can show it. My recovery comes first, but I no longer have to lie, manipulate, and deceive my current bf. I do things for him, because I want to. I don't do it expecting something in return. And living the program I can say I am sorry when I mess up.
When I was using I meant it when I said I love you to my ex. I did everything I could to show it. The problem was that my next high was more important. I didn't let anything stand in the way of my next high. I hurt him more than I showed love.
When I was using, I truely believed I loved my ex. The problem was I could only love to the best of my ability, which wasn't very much.
I have been clean for 9 years. As a recovering addict, I can love so much more. I can show it. My recovery comes first, but I no longer have to lie, manipulate, and deceive my current bf. I do things for him, because I want to. I don't do it expecting something in return. And living the program I can say I am sorry when I mess up.
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I don’t believe being an addict makes one incapable of love.
I never felt a lack of love from my son or husband, and there was never any of that if you love me you would….nah that don’t fly, that isn’t love. Which could bring up why one themselves wouldn’t know if their own love was pure, why would they let themselves be so effected by statements like that ….always look within, in you, you hold your answers, no one else does. And none of them will be found by asking questions through him. What do you want and need for you?
I also didn’t find that I was an uncaring or uncompassionate person just because I used drugs. Or incapable of loving although to what ability I guess would be judged by others, how can you know when you aren’t all there…And frankly we need to love us enough first before we can offer love out to....
Everyone is an individual and all experiences will be different and the views will be based on how healthy the one viewing is in their own right, not based on much of anything else.
I don’t think I would like myself very much if I was that judgmental to think that just cause someone is an addict they aren’t capable of love … that would be tragic.
But what is love, this is a major issue in a place like this. With so much rampant dysfunction milling about, and pasts that were insane, love and what is normal are hard to gauge … in the end we all no matter what side we sit on need to reevaluate what the meaning of love is or isn’t for us, what the meaning of normal is, or isn’t.
As Kindeyes wrote many codie’s love with strings attached, and that is so much a part of why they suffer as they do. To love without those strings, the need to have it one way their way is a totally different and much more pleasant and less confusing experience…
And confusion, that should be your primary concern. Your level of confusion, your inability to just know what feels right, is real to you to know what isn’t good or healthy for you … Find a program, working on you makes everything clearer, you don’t questions motives, you don’t have any either that you base your own actions on.
I never felt a lack of love from my son or husband, and there was never any of that if you love me you would….nah that don’t fly, that isn’t love. Which could bring up why one themselves wouldn’t know if their own love was pure, why would they let themselves be so effected by statements like that ….always look within, in you, you hold your answers, no one else does. And none of them will be found by asking questions through him. What do you want and need for you?
I also didn’t find that I was an uncaring or uncompassionate person just because I used drugs. Or incapable of loving although to what ability I guess would be judged by others, how can you know when you aren’t all there…And frankly we need to love us enough first before we can offer love out to....
Everyone is an individual and all experiences will be different and the views will be based on how healthy the one viewing is in their own right, not based on much of anything else.
I don’t think I would like myself very much if I was that judgmental to think that just cause someone is an addict they aren’t capable of love … that would be tragic.
But what is love, this is a major issue in a place like this. With so much rampant dysfunction milling about, and pasts that were insane, love and what is normal are hard to gauge … in the end we all no matter what side we sit on need to reevaluate what the meaning of love is or isn’t for us, what the meaning of normal is, or isn’t.
As Kindeyes wrote many codie’s love with strings attached, and that is so much a part of why they suffer as they do. To love without those strings, the need to have it one way their way is a totally different and much more pleasant and less confusing experience…
And confusion, that should be your primary concern. Your level of confusion, your inability to just know what feels right, is real to you to know what isn’t good or healthy for you … Find a program, working on you makes everything clearer, you don’t questions motives, you don’t have any either that you base your own actions on.
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Lara...
Your AH loved you as best he could. I wouldn't parse every event with him. What he and those in active addiction recovery aren't able to do is be a consistent, emotionally invested partner because the drugs come first. And even if he stops using, it will take years for him to get his act together. wow04's post is great because she talks about getting healthy, and by being healthy, she's able to invest more of herself in her current relationship.
He did the best he could with what he had.
Best,
ZoSo
Your AH loved you as best he could. I wouldn't parse every event with him. What he and those in active addiction recovery aren't able to do is be a consistent, emotionally invested partner because the drugs come first. And even if he stops using, it will take years for him to get his act together. wow04's post is great because she talks about getting healthy, and by being healthy, she's able to invest more of herself in her current relationship.
He did the best he could with what he had.
Best,
ZoSo
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My experience with addicts is they like us best when we are weak.
When we have suffered a loss, when we are hurting, when we are afraid, when we are unsure, when we are lost......in my experience, the addict loves this.
What the addict does not love and will not tolerate is when we are clear, when we are confident, when we know who we are and state what we need, when we are successful, when we are blooming, when we are happy.
It is sad, but in my experience, addicts enjoy us when we are most broken.
And they love the opportunity to further inflate their already dangerously inflated egos by grand acts of sympathy and support.
I have experienced this, and I have seen the addicts I knew take a kind of pleasure when someone in their life was hurting and the addict had opportunity to act like a benevolent god. Looking good is very important to the addict brain.
It is when we ask for relationship as equals (including equal sobriety) that it all falls apart.
When we have suffered a loss, when we are hurting, when we are afraid, when we are unsure, when we are lost......in my experience, the addict loves this.
What the addict does not love and will not tolerate is when we are clear, when we are confident, when we know who we are and state what we need, when we are successful, when we are blooming, when we are happy.
It is sad, but in my experience, addicts enjoy us when we are most broken.
And they love the opportunity to further inflate their already dangerously inflated egos by grand acts of sympathy and support.
I have experienced this, and I have seen the addicts I knew take a kind of pleasure when someone in their life was hurting and the addict had opportunity to act like a benevolent god. Looking good is very important to the addict brain.
It is when we ask for relationship as equals (including equal sobriety) that it all falls apart.
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(((((Lara)))))
As a RA I can honestly tell you that all those years I was 'practicing' my addictions, I could and did say "I love you", however, I did not realize until if got sober and clean and was living this new life for a while, that I 1) did not know what the word 'love' meant or the actions involved to show it, and 2) I did not love myself. Hell I didn't even like myself.
Therefore, I do agree with several above ......................... I did the best I could. Did I mean it? Of course I did. However, I had no clue what 'love' really is, or what the word meant, I just knew that was what one was 'suppose to say'. I could not 'love' someone else, when I DID NOT LOVE MYSELF.
Now being in recovery for a long time, that has totally changed. When I say "I love you" I MEAN IT. My grandchildren know I mean it. My daughter and s-i-l know I mean it. My long time SO, now passed, knew I meant it and so did he. We showed our words in our treatment and interaction to others.
So, in conclusion, there is no YES or NO to your question.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
As a RA I can honestly tell you that all those years I was 'practicing' my addictions, I could and did say "I love you", however, I did not realize until if got sober and clean and was living this new life for a while, that I 1) did not know what the word 'love' meant or the actions involved to show it, and 2) I did not love myself. Hell I didn't even like myself.
Therefore, I do agree with several above ......................... I did the best I could. Did I mean it? Of course I did. However, I had no clue what 'love' really is, or what the word meant, I just knew that was what one was 'suppose to say'. I could not 'love' someone else, when I DID NOT LOVE MYSELF.
Now being in recovery for a long time, that has totally changed. When I say "I love you" I MEAN IT. My grandchildren know I mean it. My daughter and s-i-l know I mean it. My long time SO, now passed, knew I meant it and so did he. We showed our words in our treatment and interaction to others.
So, in conclusion, there is no YES or NO to your question.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 110
I second the idea that an addict's love, although perhaps real to the addict, does not meet most people's minimum standard to be considered actual love. Perception is reality, if you can't feel the love, it isn't love is it?
The reason I post at SR is because my sister is a drug addict. Growing up with her was just terrible and I always alternated between fear and rage, and for good reason. I never had the choice to have it otherwise until I moved far far away (hence the username) from she and my enabling family.
It sounds like you've suffered a lot of hardship in your life Lara. Unlike the other unavoidable tragedies you posted about, this one is completely in your hands. To suffer or not (or at least less) is your choice. I can't fathom willingly signing up for the life my family has been forced to live because of addiction. Not even for love.
The reason I post at SR is because my sister is a drug addict. Growing up with her was just terrible and I always alternated between fear and rage, and for good reason. I never had the choice to have it otherwise until I moved far far away (hence the username) from she and my enabling family.
It sounds like you've suffered a lot of hardship in your life Lara. Unlike the other unavoidable tragedies you posted about, this one is completely in your hands. To suffer or not (or at least less) is your choice. I can't fathom willingly signing up for the life my family has been forced to live because of addiction. Not even for love.
To thine own self be true.
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For me, it's not a question of whether or not they mean it when they say they love you. Not a question of truth of feeling. It's a question of commitment and ability. As time goes on, the active alcoholic/addict's disease gets progressively worse. The longer they go using and abusing, the more they need, and the more focused they get solely on getting and using, until it completely consumes their lives. Over the decades I have watched as my father has gotten further and further and further away from all of us, his entire family. He does not call, does not interact with us, does not associate with us at all. Not his children nor his grandchildren. He just sits there, drinking, because that is what he wants to do. He lives in the same house with my mother and all of his attention is spent 24/7 on his alcohol and cigarettes. It is as if she does not exist. Does he love her? Sure. As much as an alcoholic can love anything other than his booze.
You talk about what he has done in the past, all the good that you have known and seen. Does he act that way now? Who is he now? Can you turn back the clock? Can a person be who they were yesterday? I don't think so. Really. Think about it. With every passing a day each of us changes, we cannot turn back time. We cannot undo the disease. It is progressive. The future with an alcoholic or addict is not bright. It is dismal and full of sickness and disease and heartache.
You talk about what he has done in the past, all the good that you have known and seen. Does he act that way now? Who is he now? Can you turn back the clock? Can a person be who they were yesterday? I don't think so. Really. Think about it. With every passing a day each of us changes, we cannot turn back time. We cannot undo the disease. It is progressive. The future with an alcoholic or addict is not bright. It is dismal and full of sickness and disease and heartache.
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Originally Posted by MsPINKAcres
I believe this is also not always the case ~ as in my situation with my ex ah ~ i believe he loved the idea of what our marriage was suppose to be ~ the "front" that it gave him of being a family man with a relationship with his daughters & family ~ how I allowed it to provide cover from the ugliness of his addictions ~ did he truly LOVE me?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 56
I think that people in active addiction definetly still 'love', but like others say they may not be able to meet the expectations required of their partner because they are not truly healthy in mind and body. (A lot of variables here)
But that is seperate than a person who has stopped using, or is in recovery.
The goal of recovery is to be able to establish a solid, healthy life. If that happens, then I think its safe to assume their 'love' relationships become healthier also.
But that is seperate than a person who has stopped using, or is in recovery.
The goal of recovery is to be able to establish a solid, healthy life. If that happens, then I think its safe to assume their 'love' relationships become healthier also.
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,754
Originally Posted by EnglishGarden
My experience with addicts is they like us best when we are weak.
When we have suffered a loss, when we are hurting, when we are afraid, when we are unsure, when we are lost......in my experience, the addict loves this.
What the addict does not love and will not tolerate is when we are clear, when we are confident, when we know who we are and state what we need, when we are successful, when we are blooming, when we are happy.
It is sad, but in my experience, addicts enjoy us when we are most broken.
And they love the opportunity to further inflate their already dangerously inflated egos by grand acts of sympathy and support.
I have experienced this, and I have seen the addicts I knew take a kind of pleasure when someone in their life was hurting and the addict had opportunity to act like a benevolent god. Looking good is very important to the addict brain.
It is when we ask for relationship as equals (including equal sobriety) that it all falls apart.
When we have suffered a loss, when we are hurting, when we are afraid, when we are unsure, when we are lost......in my experience, the addict loves this.
What the addict does not love and will not tolerate is when we are clear, when we are confident, when we know who we are and state what we need, when we are successful, when we are blooming, when we are happy.
It is sad, but in my experience, addicts enjoy us when we are most broken.
And they love the opportunity to further inflate their already dangerously inflated egos by grand acts of sympathy and support.
I have experienced this, and I have seen the addicts I knew take a kind of pleasure when someone in their life was hurting and the addict had opportunity to act like a benevolent god. Looking good is very important to the addict brain.
It is when we ask for relationship as equals (including equal sobriety) that it all falls apart.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 924
my ex did some really beautiful things in our relationship
I know he loved me as best he could
and I did the best I could in the situation too
but then he would disappear too
not even for very long, but it didn't matter
and then I would "disappear" too out of anger and resentment and desire to control
I finally learned a hard lesson that many had told me early on...that if I really loved him and myself that I would walk away. that it was the best thing for both of us, and that is what love wants to do...the best thing for everyone involved
I agree that love can act as a mask for the addict
he did beautiful things in my life, but they came at a price because I was in a codependent relationship with a struggling addict which is a crazy making lifestyle filled with lies, deceit, manipulation, disappearances, resentments, fear, doubt despair...etc etc...and yes, LOVE too.
love is a gift, a precious gift that we all have. it is in how we care for it, nurture it and treat it as a sacred gift. in an addict/codependent relationship love gets used and abused, battered and wasted. it's the nature of the beast
what will you do with this one precious life, this gift of your precious capacity to love?
use it, abuse it, batter and waste it? I decided to finally quit feeding my heart to active addiction
I know he loved me as best he could
and I did the best I could in the situation too
but then he would disappear too
not even for very long, but it didn't matter
and then I would "disappear" too out of anger and resentment and desire to control
I finally learned a hard lesson that many had told me early on...that if I really loved him and myself that I would walk away. that it was the best thing for both of us, and that is what love wants to do...the best thing for everyone involved
I agree that love can act as a mask for the addict
he did beautiful things in my life, but they came at a price because I was in a codependent relationship with a struggling addict which is a crazy making lifestyle filled with lies, deceit, manipulation, disappearances, resentments, fear, doubt despair...etc etc...and yes, LOVE too.
love is a gift, a precious gift that we all have. it is in how we care for it, nurture it and treat it as a sacred gift. in an addict/codependent relationship love gets used and abused, battered and wasted. it's the nature of the beast
what will you do with this one precious life, this gift of your precious capacity to love?
use it, abuse it, batter and waste it? I decided to finally quit feeding my heart to active addiction
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