Meeting left me feeling very uncomfortable...
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5
Meeting left me feeling very uncomfortable...
Hi everyone. I'm 11 days sober and have been attending meetings daily. I met with my sponsor yesterday for the first time.
Tonight, I attended a 12X12 meeting, and we discussed the Twelfth Tradition. I was the only newcomer in the meeting, but I've been in this particular meeting several times and have learned a lot there. Tonight, though, left me feeling really wary. Basically, an oldtimer spoke for over 10 minutes about how AA is not really anonymous, and we're idiots if we feel like it is (paraphrase). He was essentially saying that we have no guarantee that what is shared in meetings will maintain our anonymity. Of course, I totally agree with this and understand it--not everyone in the rooms stays sober, not everyone applies the principles and steps in all of their affairs, etc. And for me, personally, I don't care if someone compromises my anonymity, as I don't really feel like I have anything to hide. What made me uncomfortable with this member's rant was the attitude with which he presented his case. It was almost as if he was condoning and justifying compromised anonymity. His message was, "Don't come into the rooms and share your secrets. They are not safe here!" And this just made me really uncomfortable. I feel like we have to accept the fact that we have no guarantee of confidentiality and should proceed with caution, but that we should be able to assume on some level that the majority of those present respect what is shared as well as the anonymity of those present.
What made me even more uncomfortable was that once he had presented his sermon (because that's really what it felt like), all hell broke loose. People were going back and forth, cutting each other off, bickering, challenging each other, etc. It was chaos. I will say that I have NEVER experienced this before in this fellowship.
I had a really rough day today. I needed a meeting. I left tonight's meeting feeling even worse than I felt when I went in. This is the first time in 11 days that I have had to really fight the urge to drink. I don't know exactly how to deal with this, as I'm so new to the program. If it were a different situation, I would obviously call my sponsor and hash it out with her. But, I think I read somewhere on here that doing that is a bad idea because it can compromise the anonymity of those present in the meeting and can cause all kinds of drama. Clearly, I don't want to do that. So? How do I deal with this and restore my faith in my fellowship and in the program?
Tonight, I attended a 12X12 meeting, and we discussed the Twelfth Tradition. I was the only newcomer in the meeting, but I've been in this particular meeting several times and have learned a lot there. Tonight, though, left me feeling really wary. Basically, an oldtimer spoke for over 10 minutes about how AA is not really anonymous, and we're idiots if we feel like it is (paraphrase). He was essentially saying that we have no guarantee that what is shared in meetings will maintain our anonymity. Of course, I totally agree with this and understand it--not everyone in the rooms stays sober, not everyone applies the principles and steps in all of their affairs, etc. And for me, personally, I don't care if someone compromises my anonymity, as I don't really feel like I have anything to hide. What made me uncomfortable with this member's rant was the attitude with which he presented his case. It was almost as if he was condoning and justifying compromised anonymity. His message was, "Don't come into the rooms and share your secrets. They are not safe here!" And this just made me really uncomfortable. I feel like we have to accept the fact that we have no guarantee of confidentiality and should proceed with caution, but that we should be able to assume on some level that the majority of those present respect what is shared as well as the anonymity of those present.
What made me even more uncomfortable was that once he had presented his sermon (because that's really what it felt like), all hell broke loose. People were going back and forth, cutting each other off, bickering, challenging each other, etc. It was chaos. I will say that I have NEVER experienced this before in this fellowship.
I had a really rough day today. I needed a meeting. I left tonight's meeting feeling even worse than I felt when I went in. This is the first time in 11 days that I have had to really fight the urge to drink. I don't know exactly how to deal with this, as I'm so new to the program. If it were a different situation, I would obviously call my sponsor and hash it out with her. But, I think I read somewhere on here that doing that is a bad idea because it can compromise the anonymity of those present in the meeting and can cause all kinds of drama. Clearly, I don't want to do that. So? How do I deal with this and restore my faith in my fellowship and in the program?
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,903
"Don't come into the rooms and share your secrets. They are not safe here!"
he is right about that
don`t get too personnel in meetings.Share in a general way is what works best for me.
Alcoholics talk,and all it takes is one alcoholic in the lot who goes out and gossips.
a word you mentioned,Drama
what you saw was drama,and don`t worry about it,try to stay separated from it instead of getting caught up in it.Don`t make a big deal out of it like they may be doing.I like a saying my sponsor has,what others do is none of my business.Keeps me out of the drama
he is right about that
don`t get too personnel in meetings.Share in a general way is what works best for me.
Alcoholics talk,and all it takes is one alcoholic in the lot who goes out and gossips.
a word you mentioned,Drama
what you saw was drama,and don`t worry about it,try to stay separated from it instead of getting caught up in it.Don`t make a big deal out of it like they may be doing.I like a saying my sponsor has,what others do is none of my business.Keeps me out of the drama
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Sorry to know this meeting fell into crosstalking drama.
Perhaps the Chair was new at his job of keeping
the meeting on track?
I'm pleased your sobriety continues...despite what others do
or don't do...that certainly shows progress...
To deal with resentments..I read our BB...page 552
and follow directions. Please try that
All my best as you work thru this situation...
Perhaps the Chair was new at his job of keeping
the meeting on track?
I'm pleased your sobriety continues...despite what others do
or don't do...that certainly shows progress...
To deal with resentments..I read our BB...page 552
and follow directions. Please try that
All my best as you work thru this situation...
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: The Sooner State
Posts: 1,725
He is right. You will find a few members + your sponsor you can confide in. I spilled my guts at first like I was in group therapy or something. Now I keep it general.
Last year at work I ran into a guy I knew from AA. I said hello he said hello. The guy he was with asked "who is she" I heard him say "oh I just know her from AA" I was mortified at the time but now I think its pretty funny.
Last year at work I ran into a guy I knew from AA. I said hello he said hello. The guy he was with asked "who is she" I heard him say "oh I just know her from AA" I was mortified at the time but now I think its pretty funny.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
congratulations!! ya got the lesson that some are sicker than others rather quick! yup. some folks are still sick and LOVE to gossip. if ya dont want it out there, dont say it at a meeting.
it sounds like you saw who you dont want to be like( getting into BS debates because, can ya believe it!1 not everyone shares the same opinion!) and what ya may want to be like( the ones who stayed out of it).
call your sponsor. how are you gonna find out why it effected you the way it did with yer own thinking?
it sounds like you saw who you dont want to be like( getting into BS debates because, can ya believe it!1 not everyone shares the same opinion!) and what ya may want to be like( the ones who stayed out of it).
call your sponsor. how are you gonna find out why it effected you the way it did with yer own thinking?
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,969
It's a wonder AA ever got started with us drama kings and queens! I'm curious to know if anyone took that guy aside after the meeting to ask him what was really going on in his life. It sounds as if he was deflecting his true emotions and life events by saying what he did. Yeah, AA's talk about each other at times. I go there to learn about me, but some of us need to talk about others so we don't change ourselves. It's the ego.
yeah, that guy is in pain. I hope someone talks with him soon.
Try another meeting if you need to. We need more solution spoken rather than negative stuff.
Stay sober!!
Hugs,
yeah, that guy is in pain. I hope someone talks with him soon.
Try another meeting if you need to. We need more solution spoken rather than negative stuff.
Stay sober!!
Hugs,
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5
Thank you for your replies. I'm feeling a bit better about it this morning.
I am pretty sure no one talked to that guy after the meeting, as he's something of a "pillar" in our particular fellowship. I think his message was legitimate, but I wasn't wild about the delivery. I was glad I was the only newcomer there. I'm pretty certain I would never have returned had that been my first meeting.
I never share anything truly personal in the meetings, as I have major trust issues anyway, so luckily I don't run the risk of having my "secrets" exposed. Anyone who matters in my life knew I was an alcoholic before I did, so if they find out I'm attending meetings, they'll be thrilled.
I think the most important lesson I learned is that this is why crosstalking is discouraged. I wasn't sure what all of the hype was about with the crosstalking business, but now after experiencing it firsthand, I totally get it. It's not helpful.
Today is day 12. I couldn't be happier about that. And I get to attend a women's meeting tonight, which is a wonderful group.
Thanks again for responding!
I am pretty sure no one talked to that guy after the meeting, as he's something of a "pillar" in our particular fellowship. I think his message was legitimate, but I wasn't wild about the delivery. I was glad I was the only newcomer there. I'm pretty certain I would never have returned had that been my first meeting.
I never share anything truly personal in the meetings, as I have major trust issues anyway, so luckily I don't run the risk of having my "secrets" exposed. Anyone who matters in my life knew I was an alcoholic before I did, so if they find out I'm attending meetings, they'll be thrilled.
I think the most important lesson I learned is that this is why crosstalking is discouraged. I wasn't sure what all of the hype was about with the crosstalking business, but now after experiencing it firsthand, I totally get it. It's not helpful.
Today is day 12. I couldn't be happier about that. And I get to attend a women's meeting tonight, which is a wonderful group.
Thanks again for responding!
Guest
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,452
My first thought is why are you going to a 12 and 12 meeting, 12th tradition as a newcomer with 11 days into the program? Makes no sense to me. Choose meetings wisely and the material you are hearing to coincide with where you are in the work, the steps...your stepwork.
Wary? Uncomfortable? You felt these things from a meeting? Maybe it is just you. You are judging an oldtimer. Something happened that you didn't like. It wasn't what you wanted to hear. We judge and become righteous. How do we know that someone didn't need to hear what that member had to share? Maybe it was what that member needed to share for themselves and he was sharing his experience with anonymity.
You can change his message was to "his experience was"...and his is his - may not be yours, or what you want to hear. Maybe he was helping you. It is wise to be careful with who we tell our secrets to and whom to trust. The book advises us to do just that. Maybe he got burned and so he feels his experience is vital, or will help others to avoid what happened to him.
My experience is that my secrets have not been safe when I opened my mouth and gossiped about myself at group level. Maybe try listening and saving certain info for those you trust. You can talk it over with your sponsor without naming names.
Ask yourself what you can learn from this. What you have is an opportunity to see how you react and learn about yourself. You get to pardon this member and turn your thoughts away from this "problem" today.
What we focus on grows. There are instructions in the big book as to what to do with these feelings.
When people offend, we pray, "God save me from being angry".
We ask God to remove our resentments, praying only for His will for us and the power to carry that out.
You really judge this member. You say he made you uncomfortable and wary and then even more uncomfortable. You called his speaking a "rant" and complained over his attitude, and he was presenting a case, and he was condoning and justifying compromised anonymity, and then it turned into a sermon.
I learned from my sponsor that alcoholics can be big deal makers, very dramatic, selfish, and our brains attract chaos. Thoughts that AA is not good, they don't do it right, f-it...all lead to the downward spiral.
You can handle this situation constructively or destructively. Get a piece of paper and draw a line down the center. On one side list what it would look like to handle this situation constructively and the other destructively.
c/ find a new meeting, talk to my sponsor, forgive,
d/complain, judge, stop going to meetings
You have at least two ways to handle this. If you are unhappy, find a new group. We seek the fellowship we crave.
Do you have any guarantee of confidentiality anywhere?
Finally here comes the selfishness. (I only say this as I have recognized it in myself and say it only to help you.)
Poor me.
"I" had a really tough day.
"I" needed a meeting.
What's in it for me?
I didn't get what I wanted. It didn't go the way it should have for me. It should have been about me. They should have realized I was new and changed the topic to step one for me.
You left feeling worse because you judged and blocked out the good. We miss the good when we judge.
If you learned from it, if you were openminded, you would be leaving grateful.
It's all in how you interpreted it. Your perception. My perception was really lousy at times. Our main problem centers in our mind.
Blaming meeting for you feeling worse that you felt when you went in and for drinking thoughts.
Drinking thoughts are caused by the mental obsession of an alcoholic not a bad meeting, or bad people. Our minds. It's our main problem.
And now you are resentful with the program and the fellowship.
How to deal with this...
Ask God to remove your resentment.
Seek new meetings.
Talk to sponsor.
Pray.
Change focus from problem to solution, new action, different action that moves you away from the problem.
Get a service position, even if it's greeter, or making coffee.
It's alright. We have all been to a meeting where there was something said that we didn't like...I am sure.
"It is plain that a life which includes deep resentment leads only to futility and unhappiness. To the precise extent that we permit these, do we squander the hours that might have been worth while. But with the alcoholic, whose hope is the maintenance and growth of a spiritual experience, this business of resentment is infinitely grave. We found that it is fatal. For when harboring such feeling we shut ourselves off from the sunlight of the Spirit. The insanity of alcohol returns and we drink again. And with us, to drink is to die.
If we were to live, we had to be free of anger. The grouch and the brainstorm were not for us. They may be the dubious luxury of normal men, but for alcoholics these things are poison.
We turned back to the list, for it held the key to the future. We were prepared to look for it from an entirely different angle. We began to see that the world and its people really dominated us. In that state, the wrong-doing of others, fancied or real, had power to actually kill. How could we escape? We saw that these resentments must be mastered, but how? We could not wish them away any more than alcohol.
This was our course: We realized that the people who wronged us were perhaps spiritually sick.Though we did not like their symptoms and the way these disturbed us, they, like ourselves, were sick too. We asked God to help us show them the same tolerance, pity, and patience that we would cheerfully grant a sick friend. When a person offended we said to ourselves, “This is a sick man. How can I be helpful to him? God save me from being angry. Thy will be done.”
How It Works
Wary? Uncomfortable? You felt these things from a meeting? Maybe it is just you. You are judging an oldtimer. Something happened that you didn't like. It wasn't what you wanted to hear. We judge and become righteous. How do we know that someone didn't need to hear what that member had to share? Maybe it was what that member needed to share for themselves and he was sharing his experience with anonymity.
You can change his message was to "his experience was"...and his is his - may not be yours, or what you want to hear. Maybe he was helping you. It is wise to be careful with who we tell our secrets to and whom to trust. The book advises us to do just that. Maybe he got burned and so he feels his experience is vital, or will help others to avoid what happened to him.
My experience is that my secrets have not been safe when I opened my mouth and gossiped about myself at group level. Maybe try listening and saving certain info for those you trust. You can talk it over with your sponsor without naming names.
Ask yourself what you can learn from this. What you have is an opportunity to see how you react and learn about yourself. You get to pardon this member and turn your thoughts away from this "problem" today.
What we focus on grows. There are instructions in the big book as to what to do with these feelings.
When people offend, we pray, "God save me from being angry".
We ask God to remove our resentments, praying only for His will for us and the power to carry that out.
You really judge this member. You say he made you uncomfortable and wary and then even more uncomfortable. You called his speaking a "rant" and complained over his attitude, and he was presenting a case, and he was condoning and justifying compromised anonymity, and then it turned into a sermon.
I learned from my sponsor that alcoholics can be big deal makers, very dramatic, selfish, and our brains attract chaos. Thoughts that AA is not good, they don't do it right, f-it...all lead to the downward spiral.
You can handle this situation constructively or destructively. Get a piece of paper and draw a line down the center. On one side list what it would look like to handle this situation constructively and the other destructively.
c/ find a new meeting, talk to my sponsor, forgive,
d/complain, judge, stop going to meetings
You have at least two ways to handle this. If you are unhappy, find a new group. We seek the fellowship we crave.
Do you have any guarantee of confidentiality anywhere?
Finally here comes the selfishness. (I only say this as I have recognized it in myself and say it only to help you.)
Poor me.
"I" had a really tough day.
"I" needed a meeting.
What's in it for me?
I didn't get what I wanted. It didn't go the way it should have for me. It should have been about me. They should have realized I was new and changed the topic to step one for me.
You left feeling worse because you judged and blocked out the good. We miss the good when we judge.
If you learned from it, if you were openminded, you would be leaving grateful.
It's all in how you interpreted it. Your perception. My perception was really lousy at times. Our main problem centers in our mind.
Blaming meeting for you feeling worse that you felt when you went in and for drinking thoughts.
Drinking thoughts are caused by the mental obsession of an alcoholic not a bad meeting, or bad people. Our minds. It's our main problem.
And now you are resentful with the program and the fellowship.
How to deal with this...
Ask God to remove your resentment.
Seek new meetings.
Talk to sponsor.
Pray.
Change focus from problem to solution, new action, different action that moves you away from the problem.
Get a service position, even if it's greeter, or making coffee.
It's alright. We have all been to a meeting where there was something said that we didn't like...I am sure.
"It is plain that a life which includes deep resentment leads only to futility and unhappiness. To the precise extent that we permit these, do we squander the hours that might have been worth while. But with the alcoholic, whose hope is the maintenance and growth of a spiritual experience, this business of resentment is infinitely grave. We found that it is fatal. For when harboring such feeling we shut ourselves off from the sunlight of the Spirit. The insanity of alcohol returns and we drink again. And with us, to drink is to die.
If we were to live, we had to be free of anger. The grouch and the brainstorm were not for us. They may be the dubious luxury of normal men, but for alcoholics these things are poison.
We turned back to the list, for it held the key to the future. We were prepared to look for it from an entirely different angle. We began to see that the world and its people really dominated us. In that state, the wrong-doing of others, fancied or real, had power to actually kill. How could we escape? We saw that these resentments must be mastered, but how? We could not wish them away any more than alcohol.
This was our course: We realized that the people who wronged us were perhaps spiritually sick.Though we did not like their symptoms and the way these disturbed us, they, like ourselves, were sick too. We asked God to help us show them the same tolerance, pity, and patience that we would cheerfully grant a sick friend. When a person offended we said to ourselves, “This is a sick man. How can I be helpful to him? God save me from being angry. Thy will be done.”
How It Works
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5
Thank you, Veritas, for your reply. To clarify, I was at the 12X12 meeting because it was the only meeting available yesterday that I was able to attend and I'm trying to do the 90 in 90 per my sponsor's instructions.
As far as this member making me feel more uncomfortable, that wasn't at all what I meant. It was the cross talk that was uncomfortable for me, as the meeting turned into an argument--raised voices, pointing fingers, storming out of the room, etc. It just caught me off guard, as I have never experienced anything like it in a meeting before. Nearly everyone in the room was involved, not just this member. The entire room turned into a yelling match at which point, no one could be heard over the others.
I really appreciate your insight. I recognize I have so much to learn and am doing the best I know how to change what needs to be changed.
As far as this member making me feel more uncomfortable, that wasn't at all what I meant. It was the cross talk that was uncomfortable for me, as the meeting turned into an argument--raised voices, pointing fingers, storming out of the room, etc. It just caught me off guard, as I have never experienced anything like it in a meeting before. Nearly everyone in the room was involved, not just this member. The entire room turned into a yelling match at which point, no one could be heard over the others.
I really appreciate your insight. I recognize I have so much to learn and am doing the best I know how to change what needs to be changed.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
What does it really mean? Anonymity is the spiritual foundation on which all our traditions are based, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities...?
It applies here, I think. Anonymity as practiced in AA, well, as it should be, goes way beyond the simple ideas of being nameless and avoiding gossip... You know? Some are sicker than others for sure, anonymity allows that we don't judge them or compare or make them more or less than ourselves.
By far my favorite tradition, tradition 12. You got a really good lesson in the twelfth tradition!!
It applies here, I think. Anonymity as practiced in AA, well, as it should be, goes way beyond the simple ideas of being nameless and avoiding gossip... You know? Some are sicker than others for sure, anonymity allows that we don't judge them or compare or make them more or less than ourselves.
By far my favorite tradition, tradition 12. You got a really good lesson in the twelfth tradition!!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 464
We are not anonymous amongst ourselves. Your anonymity within AA is mine to defend outside of AA. Your anonymity in AA is not a confessional. Anonymity gets twisted. AA is not a secret society, we keep our AA business to AA, and no one runs it.The problem with the pontification of some members with time, is their is a very false air of legitimacy to what they say.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 464
Your alcoholism is safe within AA. But:
If you bring your work problems, relationship problems, family issues, or any other outside issue, you open up the door to gossip.
Stick to your problem with alcohol in AA and you should have no problem
If you bring your work problems, relationship problems, family issues, or any other outside issue, you open up the door to gossip.
Stick to your problem with alcohol in AA and you should have no problem
Ethanol Intolerant
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Cascadia
Posts: 665
"Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what we did, and what we are like now."
When sharing veers away from this format, meetings generally go down hill.
Congratulations on 12 days sober Wingslike. You can do this.
When sharing veers away from this format, meetings generally go down hill.
Congratulations on 12 days sober Wingslike. You can do this.
*Grateful*
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,619
When it comes to true anonymity, I would have to say there is always a chance yours could become compromised so share w/ caution. People talk, I talked when I was new in the rooms, heck, I used to roast people w/ another lady when I left the meeting. (I am just being honest, but I am not proud of that behavior)
The only thing we have the power to control is ourselves and our reactions to others.
Last night I was at a Big Book meeting and a guy brought up during his share when working on his 4th step by whose standard should his searching and fearless moral inventory are we go by if this is NOT a religious program. He said he did not believe in the God of the Bible, so I thought he had a very legitimate question during his share. However, after his share (or actually during it) some people in the room thought they needed to cross talk and answer his question. I was not annoyed! It was a miracle, I just accepted what was going on in the room and didn't feel as if I needed to get involved, ask them to stop, fix it, nor was I shocked by it...it is just where some people are at.
I know this doesn't directly relate to what you have shared, but I will say this:
Acceptance is the answer to all of my problems today and my serenity is in direct proportion to my ability to accept things just they way they are at any given moment.
When I was able to grasp that simple concept, that was over half the battle.
Blessings, Lily
The only thing we have the power to control is ourselves and our reactions to others.
Last night I was at a Big Book meeting and a guy brought up during his share when working on his 4th step by whose standard should his searching and fearless moral inventory are we go by if this is NOT a religious program. He said he did not believe in the God of the Bible, so I thought he had a very legitimate question during his share. However, after his share (or actually during it) some people in the room thought they needed to cross talk and answer his question. I was not annoyed! It was a miracle, I just accepted what was going on in the room and didn't feel as if I needed to get involved, ask them to stop, fix it, nor was I shocked by it...it is just where some people are at.
I know this doesn't directly relate to what you have shared, but I will say this:
Acceptance is the answer to all of my problems today and my serenity is in direct proportion to my ability to accept things just they way they are at any given moment.
When I was able to grasp that simple concept, that was over half the battle.
Blessings, Lily
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
Hey wngslikeeagles-----
"...I am pretty sure no one talked to that guy after the meeting, as he's something of a "pillar" in our particular fellowship. I think his message was legitimate, but I wasn't wild about the delivery..."
When I read what you wrote there, the first thoughts/feelings that went through me were.....how sad.....
I've known some 'pillars' of the fellowship; great, grand, really wonderful oldtimers.....and ya know what......? sometimes they have bad days too. When I read your original post--his message, and his rant and tude--and the thought that went through my mind was, "I bet something happened to him, probly recently, where someone broke his anonymity, perhaps even spilled some of his secrets....and he may have been really hurt." Kinda strange where my mind goes sometimes, I know.....
Anyway, I hope I haven't offended anyone here, but if I have, I apologize. I guess I just wanted to share some of my personal ES&H (I've had my anonymity broken more times than I can count, but nobody's told any of my personal stuff; well, nobody still living, anyway.....LOL)......
(o:
NoelleR
"...I am pretty sure no one talked to that guy after the meeting, as he's something of a "pillar" in our particular fellowship. I think his message was legitimate, but I wasn't wild about the delivery..."
When I read what you wrote there, the first thoughts/feelings that went through me were.....how sad.....
I've known some 'pillars' of the fellowship; great, grand, really wonderful oldtimers.....and ya know what......? sometimes they have bad days too. When I read your original post--his message, and his rant and tude--and the thought that went through my mind was, "I bet something happened to him, probly recently, where someone broke his anonymity, perhaps even spilled some of his secrets....and he may have been really hurt." Kinda strange where my mind goes sometimes, I know.....
Anyway, I hope I haven't offended anyone here, but if I have, I apologize. I guess I just wanted to share some of my personal ES&H (I've had my anonymity broken more times than I can count, but nobody's told any of my personal stuff; well, nobody still living, anyway.....LOL)......
(o:
NoelleR
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