I don't understand
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: gator country
Posts: 19
I don't understand
I read a post this morning on this site. The poster was asking for help on understanding how someone got to the point where their addiction killed them.
They were directed to the HBO site on the series Addition. I went there and watched a few of the videos. In the very first video a lady say's "there is no rock bottom, rock bottom is a myth"
Now my question is everyone here will tell you you can't help the AH in your life as they need to hit rock bottom first. If the documentary says it's a myth then why does everyone tell you different here?? I really don't understand. To me it's black and white, one way or the other, there's a rock bottom or there isn't. What am I missing here?
They were directed to the HBO site on the series Addition. I went there and watched a few of the videos. In the very first video a lady say's "there is no rock bottom, rock bottom is a myth"
Now my question is everyone here will tell you you can't help the AH in your life as they need to hit rock bottom first. If the documentary says it's a myth then why does everyone tell you different here?? I really don't understand. To me it's black and white, one way or the other, there's a rock bottom or there isn't. What am I missing here?
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 427
I think, for some, rock bottom is death.
There isn't one, defined rock bottom for everyone. It's different-it may be losing their family, losing a job, becoming homeless...or maybe none of that is enough for them to stop. I honestly think my XAH's rock bottom will be death. He has lost his family, job, home. He is homeless and facing a jail sentence. He continues to drink. For some, maybe the family loss is enough....
I get how it's confusing. It may be said there is no rock bottom for someone....in that case, it will be death I think.
There isn't one, defined rock bottom for everyone. It's different-it may be losing their family, losing a job, becoming homeless...or maybe none of that is enough for them to stop. I honestly think my XAH's rock bottom will be death. He has lost his family, job, home. He is homeless and facing a jail sentence. He continues to drink. For some, maybe the family loss is enough....
I get how it's confusing. It may be said there is no rock bottom for someone....in that case, it will be death I think.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 43
I don't think there is a black and white when it comes to addiction. Eveyone seems to have their own "bottom". One person may seek help after one blackout, and others will drink themselves to death.
I have come to the conclusion that logic and reason rarely applies to this disease.
I have come to the conclusion that logic and reason rarely applies to this disease.
So it goes
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Manchester UK
Posts: 1,620
You can always go further down if you want. I jumped the ship with alcohol when I had humiliated myself and my family enough.
I am sure if I went back to drink I could make things worse, just dont want to any more
I am sure if I went back to drink I could make things worse, just dont want to any more
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 183
There are many commonalities among alcoholics, but people are still individuals and one size never fits all.
My husband had been an alcoholic for 35 years. He was on a major downhill slide and one day said, "I can't do this anymore." My sister has end stage cirrhosis and still drinks. She has lost everything and her bottom will be death. It's sad and horrible and makes no sense, but that's just how it is.
My husband had been an alcoholic for 35 years. He was on a major downhill slide and one day said, "I can't do this anymore." My sister has end stage cirrhosis and still drinks. She has lost everything and her bottom will be death. It's sad and horrible and makes no sense, but that's just how it is.
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
I hit my bottom when my wife's drinking and pills got to the point that staying was more painful than leaving. That was almost a year ago.
She continued to use for another 4 months even while in an outpatient rehab program, she was not allowed to see her grandchildren and I had moved out.
I believe she may be actually working some sort of program now but for me it is too late. I have started divorce proceedings and simply want to get on with my life.
She is working on reconnecting with our daughters but it is slow work. She is allowed to see the one set of grandchildren but only for limited amounts of time and under controlled circumstances. The others live half way across the country so we will just see what happens there.
Did she hit bottom, to be honest I don't know. Could she relapse, yes, she has in the past.
So, I know there is a bottom for me because I hit it and it triggered huge changes in my life. Is there one for her, I don't know and don't care.
Your friend,
She continued to use for another 4 months even while in an outpatient rehab program, she was not allowed to see her grandchildren and I had moved out.
I believe she may be actually working some sort of program now but for me it is too late. I have started divorce proceedings and simply want to get on with my life.
She is working on reconnecting with our daughters but it is slow work. She is allowed to see the one set of grandchildren but only for limited amounts of time and under controlled circumstances. The others live half way across the country so we will just see what happens there.
Did she hit bottom, to be honest I don't know. Could she relapse, yes, she has in the past.
So, I know there is a bottom for me because I hit it and it triggered huge changes in my life. Is there one for her, I don't know and don't care.
Your friend,
Today is a New Day
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,766
I think the point being made was that everyone's bottom is different, and too often that bottom is death.
Each time I thought XABF hit his bottom, he just dug a deeper one.
Hitting rock bottom is when it's more painful to keep digging than it is to climb out of the hole.
To some people, it's too scary to climb out of the hole, they think they dug it too deep or just want to see if they can reach China on the other side, and so they just keep on digging until they die.
I started to dig up pebbles when XABF tried to throw a chair at me, I took a swing at him, and ended up staying at work overnight.
I hit bedrock when I realized that even in rehab, with the certification from the doctors that he was 100% sober, he still hadn't changed his thinking one bit. I knew that recovery would take time, but I also knew that if his thinking hadn't altered at all then it wouldn't stick because he was just doing it to get back in my good graces.
Each time I thought XABF hit his bottom, he just dug a deeper one.
Hitting rock bottom is when it's more painful to keep digging than it is to climb out of the hole.
To some people, it's too scary to climb out of the hole, they think they dug it too deep or just want to see if they can reach China on the other side, and so they just keep on digging until they die.
I started to dig up pebbles when XABF tried to throw a chair at me, I took a swing at him, and ended up staying at work overnight.
I hit bedrock when I realized that even in rehab, with the certification from the doctors that he was 100% sober, he still hadn't changed his thinking one bit. I knew that recovery would take time, but I also knew that if his thinking hadn't altered at all then it wouldn't stick because he was just doing it to get back in my good graces.
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: gator country
Posts: 19
Thanks to everyone who responded to my question.
Let me phrase it this way......the lady in the video said rock bottom is a myth. So does that mean the AH needs to realize there addiction and stop it or the people in their life need to do more to help them deal with the addiction so the AH can start taking steps to dealing with it?
Let me phrase it this way......the lady in the video said rock bottom is a myth. So does that mean the AH needs to realize there addiction and stop it or the people in their life need to do more to help them deal with the addiction so the AH can start taking steps to dealing with it?
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
Originally Posted by Nancy777 
Thanks to everyone who responded to my question.
Let me phrase it this way......the lady in the video said rock bottom is a myth. So does that mean the AH needs to realize there addiction and stop it or the people in their life need to do more to help them deal with the addiction so the AH can start taking steps to dealing with it?
Let me phrase it this way......the lady in the video said rock bottom is a myth. So does that mean the AH needs to realize there addiction and stop it or the people in their life need to do more to help them deal with the addiction so the AH can start taking steps to dealing with it?
You didn't cause it.
You can't control it.
You can't cure it.
You have no power over him or his addiction. He will get better only when he is ready to get better and not one second sooner.
He may or may not get better. His choice. He may or may not hit bottom. Again there is nothing you can do to effect that one way or the other.
And yes there is a bottom. It is the point where the pain is so great that you either change or die. Some people change, some people die.
Your friend,
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Originally Posted by Nancy777
Thanks to everyone who responded to my question.
Let me phrase it this way......the lady in the video said rock bottom is a myth. So does that mean the AH needs to realize there addiction and stop it or the people in their life need to do more to help them deal with the addiction so the AH can start taking steps to dealing with it?
Let me phrase it this way......the lady in the video said rock bottom is a myth. So does that mean the AH needs to realize there addiction and stop it or the people in their life need to do more to help them deal with the addiction so the AH can start taking steps to dealing with it?
I've seen many versions of rock bottom. In AA there's a saying about the three L's. People quit because of the law, their liver, or their loved ones. But in what order? Or does it take all? Who knows.
I think the phrase "rock bottom" itself is vague, and maybe the woman in the video was speaking to it from that standpoint. Everyone's "rock bottom" is different. But I do believe it exists. Maybe it can be rephrased...like "end of your rope" or "so done you're crispy" or "had enough"...whatever you want to call it - it is when one decides to make a change.
Can you help your A make that decision? Maybe. But that's up to you and your loved one. I found in my situation, the more I backed off and let my RAH be the grown man that he is, the easier it was for him to make that decision on his own.
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Join Date: Mar 2012
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Posts: 19
Originally Posted by Tuffgirl
This is a good question - where is the line between "helping someone deal with it" and being controlling and codependent?
I've seen many versions of rock bottom. In AA there's a saying about the three L's. People quit because of the law, their liver, or their loved ones. But in what order? Or does it take all? Who knows.
I think the phrase "rock bottom" itself is vague, and maybe the woman in the video was speaking to it from that standpoint. Everyone's "rock bottom" is different. But I do believe it exists. Maybe it can be rephrased...like "end of your rope" or "so done you're crispy" or "had enough"...whatever you want to call it - it is when one decides to make a change.
Can you help your A make that decision? Maybe. But that's up to you and your loved one. I found in my situation, the more I backed off and let my RAH be the grown man that he is, the easier it was for him to make that decision on his own.
I've seen many versions of rock bottom. In AA there's a saying about the three L's. People quit because of the law, their liver, or their loved ones. But in what order? Or does it take all? Who knows.
I think the phrase "rock bottom" itself is vague, and maybe the woman in the video was speaking to it from that standpoint. Everyone's "rock bottom" is different. But I do believe it exists. Maybe it can be rephrased...like "end of your rope" or "so done you're crispy" or "had enough"...whatever you want to call it - it is when one decides to make a change.
Can you help your A make that decision? Maybe. But that's up to you and your loved one. I found in my situation, the more I backed off and let my RAH be the grown man that he is, the easier it was for him to make that decision on his own.
He has made the decision to stop drinking. Today is day 19 with no drinking for him. He decided this because he does have end stage liver disease, which he found out 19 days ago, after a week in the hospital.
Last night I told him how proud I was of him for stopping. His response was "what you didn't think I could do it, I've actually found it really easy to stop"
This worries me as I've been told that once people start feeling better they usually have a relapse. He's been drinking heavily for 20 years. should it really be that easy?
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: California
Posts: 693
Originally Posted by Nancy777
Let me phrase it this way......the lady in the video said rock bottom is a myth. So does that mean the AH needs to realize there addiction and stop it or the people in their life need to do more to help them deal with the addiction so the AH can start taking steps to dealing with it?
My own rock bottom came on a warm May morning when I woke up and had a lightbulb moment and realized I could not live with my AH one more day and asked him to leave that very day. We have four kids.
When we separated, I hoped that might get his attention and that possibly he'd hit rock bottom and get help. It didn't and he did not. I had this image of both of us down in a deep well. I was the soft mud below him (enabler) that made the hole and the bottom reasonably comfortable. I removed myself and the kids from serving as a cushion. So at least he's now down in the hole alone. He has to live with the consequences of his addiction. Maybe he'll hit the bottom someday, or maybe he'll find a way to line it with more mud. Either way, never again will I allow myself or my children to be the padding.
a southern belle
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: tennessee
Posts: 265
Hello dear...I regret to say that nothing about addiction is really black or white. And, rock bottom is a reality. It just happens to be a variable. It's measurement (point of being) is not a constant. It is as unique as ones own fingerprint and therefore is different for us all. Peace to you.....mags
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
It's one opinion among many and certainly doesn't define the issue because it was on TV. I know people whom I respect who don't believe in rock bottom, but I sure as hell do.
So, in my opinion, the show and the person on it is dead nuts wrong. There you go-- another opinion among many.
What does this mean? It means nothing. Your alcoholic is either drinking or not, and is either seeking sobriety actively or not.
Cyranoak
So, in my opinion, the show and the person on it is dead nuts wrong. There you go-- another opinion among many.
What does this mean? It means nothing. Your alcoholic is either drinking or not, and is either seeking sobriety actively or not.
Cyranoak
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Leominster, Ma
Posts: 119
Hi Nancy,
My husband of 17 years died from his addiction. He was clean and sober for many years. It took him an additional 10 years after picking up the drink again to hit his bottom. His bottom was death. I am also a recovering alcoholic and my rock bottom was being unemployed, no place to live, very few people left in my life and family that wasn't there for me anymore. I hit a bottom for me that was rock bottom. I was able to put on the brakes and come back to life...I was lucky. I turned my life around then and only then. My Michael didn't have a bottom that he could reach that turned his life around to want to live and survive again. He hit so many along the way and I'd say to myself "maybe this is his bottom", DUI/Jail/loss of family/friends, no job etc. homeless in the end, gee, i thought that would do it. BUT I will never understand why he didn't have a bottom that would bring him back, his bottom was death and the grave. this disease will kill, I saw it happen to a very wonderful loving person, just something in his brain that went wrong when he picked up, he ended up dying from drinking listerine, tell me that this was his bottom. I think indeed it was. it's an imaginary thing, different to all but hopefully all alcoholics have one that they can finally dig themselves out and LIVE SOBER, but I hear so many stories of folks that can't do that. I'm grateful that wasn't the case for me. m
My husband of 17 years died from his addiction. He was clean and sober for many years. It took him an additional 10 years after picking up the drink again to hit his bottom. His bottom was death. I am also a recovering alcoholic and my rock bottom was being unemployed, no place to live, very few people left in my life and family that wasn't there for me anymore. I hit a bottom for me that was rock bottom. I was able to put on the brakes and come back to life...I was lucky. I turned my life around then and only then. My Michael didn't have a bottom that he could reach that turned his life around to want to live and survive again. He hit so many along the way and I'd say to myself "maybe this is his bottom", DUI/Jail/loss of family/friends, no job etc. homeless in the end, gee, i thought that would do it. BUT I will never understand why he didn't have a bottom that would bring him back, his bottom was death and the grave. this disease will kill, I saw it happen to a very wonderful loving person, just something in his brain that went wrong when he picked up, he ended up dying from drinking listerine, tell me that this was his bottom. I think indeed it was. it's an imaginary thing, different to all but hopefully all alcoholics have one that they can finally dig themselves out and LIVE SOBER, but I hear so many stories of folks that can't do that. I'm grateful that wasn't the case for me. m
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: ny/nj
Posts: 182
Hitting "bottom"
Active addiction takes you three places: the mental institution, jail, or the grave. That's it. Those three. If any of those, or close brushes with those are scary enough, well, there's your bottom. If none are compelling enough, then hitting bottom means hitting the bottom of the grave (literal) or hitting the crematorium. Good luck to you both.
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
Some people need to go down very low (loose everything) to stop drinking. Others may simply realize they can't stop drinking. Alcoholics -- and recovery -- are all different. Don't get hung up on semantics. Someone stops or he/she doesn't. If they have stopped they will/won't stay sober.
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