Overzealous Fifth-Stepper?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 107
Overzealous Fifth-Stepper?
Hello-
I've only had one fifth step but I changed sponsors based on this. Basically, when I did my fifth step, rather then simply listening or looking for my part, my former sponsor spent a lot of time trying to explain the other persons reasons for their actions. Is this correct? I really felt that this was innappropriate given the five minute secondhand summary of the situation I'd given her. How was she supposed to be able to gage why my father is a Republican?? I also really hated the "what could you have done differently" section. I mean, she was blasting me for stuff I did when I was six years old!! Very unsatisfied with my fifth step experience and I didn't see the magic others have talked about. Did we do it wrong?
I've only had one fifth step but I changed sponsors based on this. Basically, when I did my fifth step, rather then simply listening or looking for my part, my former sponsor spent a lot of time trying to explain the other persons reasons for their actions. Is this correct? I really felt that this was innappropriate given the five minute secondhand summary of the situation I'd given her. How was she supposed to be able to gage why my father is a Republican?? I also really hated the "what could you have done differently" section. I mean, she was blasting me for stuff I did when I was six years old!! Very unsatisfied with my fifth step experience and I didn't see the magic others have talked about. Did we do it wrong?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 107
Thank you guys for your feedback. I'm really curious about the method of doing the fifth step though. What I mean is, when you hear it, how much feedback is the sponsor suppossed to give? I thought the Big Book implied the sponsor only listens.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,937
It's just a matter of personal style. You've accomplished a hell of a thing, be proud of yourself, move on and when you take someone through this step you can use this experience to guide you on how to do it better.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 107
Mark, what kind of feedback? Did he try to find your part, did he try to explain the other person's side? I guess it is indeed a matter of personal style, but the big book thumpers would probably adhere to a certain way. 
I just was interested also in feedback from people who have heard fifth steps. Do you just listen? Do you try to find the sponsee's part? Or do you let them find their own part? Do you try to explain the other person's side? I just was kind of trying to open up a dialogue here so people can give their experiences on hearing fifth steps. I really want to know more.
I just was interested also in feedback from people who have heard fifth steps. Do you just listen? Do you try to find the sponsee's part? Or do you let them find their own part? Do you try to explain the other person's side? I just was kind of trying to open up a dialogue here so people can give their experiences on hearing fifth steps. I really want to know more.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 107
P.S. I will obviously be doing a lot of tenth steps with my new sponsor, so I'm not all that worried....just wanted to also share my own experience in changing sponsors because I didn't "see the magic" everyone talked about.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Merritt Island, Fl
Posts: 1,164
My fifth step consisted of my sponser listening to me admit all the nasty things I have done my whole life and when I was finally done he shrugged his shoulders and said "so, what are you gonna do about it now" Then off to Dennys for cake. Dont look for the miracle, just let it happen.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,308
Liberty47,
I understnd your frustration with the steps and people's different interpretations. Somedays I see the 12 steps as a sci-fi thriller. The closer I get to the truth the more is revealed and the confused alcoholic mind starts to see clearly what is expected.
I am at step 2 1/2.
I found the other posters "feedback" told me very little of what is expected of a sponsor during the 5th step. I have missed something here. What "truth"?
Is this the, "have faith and all will be revealed," type of thing. I am OK with that but I need more of the manual explained to me.
I am going off to play in the smart recovery sandbox and check out their toys. I'll be back.
CaiHong
I understnd your frustration with the steps and people's different interpretations. Somedays I see the 12 steps as a sci-fi thriller. The closer I get to the truth the more is revealed and the confused alcoholic mind starts to see clearly what is expected.
I am at step 2 1/2.
I found the other posters "feedback" told me very little of what is expected of a sponsor during the 5th step. I have missed something here. What "truth"?
Is this the, "have faith and all will be revealed," type of thing. I am OK with that but I need more of the manual explained to me.
I am going off to play in the smart recovery sandbox and check out their toys. I'll be back.
CaiHong
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,903
my sponsor listened to me go over ,like Stugotz mentioned,all the bad dirty stuff I had done.He did not interpete or give me feedback,it wasn`t his job.He listened for 6 hours.
Afterwards,I went home for the hour the book talks about,the "hour of grace"
Afterwards,I went home for the hour the book talks about,the "hour of grace"
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,146
Mine listened, shared his similar stuff in the raunchy parts, probed for what I had decided he didn't need to hear about and after I told him those things he closed with asking if I could now see how sick I'd been.
What could screw it all up is if the new person holds anything back at all.
What could screw it all up is if the new person holds anything back at all.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Maryland
Posts: 106
I didn't necessarily have a huge "bright light" after my 5th step, but I did feel a huge sense of relief, and also a need to work harder in my program since I now had a cleaner slate to work with. Basically, in addition to working on step 6 and 7, I also began working the 10th step immediately after my 5th step.
As for my sponsor, he listened but also shared his experience when my inventory or experience was similar to one of his own. He put alot of my problems into perspective for me, and sometimes that meant explaining perhaps why someone reacted to my own problems the way they did. More than anything though the focus was on why I did what I did, not the other person.
As for my sponsor, he listened but also shared his experience when my inventory or experience was similar to one of his own. He put alot of my problems into perspective for me, and sometimes that meant explaining perhaps why someone reacted to my own problems the way they did. More than anything though the focus was on why I did what I did, not the other person.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
I've heard a quite few 5th Steps. I make it a point to speak as little as possible. However, I have an obligation to help the person see the truth about themselves, so I will ask them to consider if there was harm caused in ways they may not have considered, or if their 'need' or expectation is acceptable to them.
The result of that 5th Step should be seeing clearly the grosser nature of my defects, and how my actions and feeling are driven by self will. Causes and conditions.
The result of that 5th Step should be seeing clearly the grosser nature of my defects, and how my actions and feeling are driven by self will. Causes and conditions.
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,903
the fifth step was more than a confession,I read my 4th step to my sponsor,everythingt,all 3 notebooks of stuff,with holding nothing.When I was done,he asked if if I had held back anything.I said no,which was true.He sent me home to sit quitely and get my big book,which he told me to leave at home as the big book says,and spend time with God,and look back over everything I had done,all the previous steps,and make sure I did not leave anything out.
He reminded me I was building a archway thru which I would pass to freedom.
Was my work solid so far?
Yes
The hour of Grace we call it,a great hour in my life.I am glad I did not miss it.
A lot of folks miss the "hour"
so they say
I went on to step 6 and then to step 7 in the same day
when I got up from my knees after the 7th step prayer,I passed thru the archway a free man with all the tools to stay free
He reminded me I was building a archway thru which I would pass to freedom.
Was my work solid so far?
Yes
The hour of Grace we call it,a great hour in my life.I am glad I did not miss it.
A lot of folks miss the "hour"
so they say
I went on to step 6 and then to step 7 in the same day
when I got up from my knees after the 7th step prayer,I passed thru the archway a free man with all the tools to stay free
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
There's some stuff in the book about:
looking back at our list......were prepared to look at it in a different light......we saw that those who hurt us, LIKE OURSELVES, were sick too......
So they're asking me to see, or try to see, that these things they did were not unlike things I did....or could possibly do. Thinking it's me vs. them helps keep a resentment alive and well. Thinking I'm separate and different helps too. Recognizing that others live in fear, just like me, and that they do things that hurt others, just like I did...... that went a long way to me being able to forgive. That forgiveness was a KEY to moving past some of my bigger resentments.
I have to agree with what your sponsor did.....given the brief explanation you gave.
It also sounds like you had an "expectation" of how that step would go and how you'd feel after. I assume you did the 3rd step though, the one where we concede expectations and decide to turn the results of such things over to our HP. Of course, none of us get this 100% right all the time but I'd bet that 5th step will prove to be, in the long run, FAR more beneficial than had it gone the way you wanted it to go.
The majority of all my growth in recovery has come on the heels of some sort of hurt: waking up to some unmanageability, recognizing some new powerlessness, seeing how I've hurt others in ways I never noticed, seeing my immaturity where I don't think it's present, etc....... all those things "hurt my feelings" and I felt bad about myself (they hurt my false pride and hurt my false ego). Without those things though, I never would have gotten willing to change......and many of the changes have been what's brought the peace and serenity I now enjoy into my life.
As has been mentioned..... a sponsor's job isn't to make you feel good. They're there as a guide through the steps and they're there to help you see what IS rather than just what we want/like to see. Sometimes.......lots of times.......waking up doesn't feel all that good.
looking back at our list......were prepared to look at it in a different light......we saw that those who hurt us, LIKE OURSELVES, were sick too......
So they're asking me to see, or try to see, that these things they did were not unlike things I did....or could possibly do. Thinking it's me vs. them helps keep a resentment alive and well. Thinking I'm separate and different helps too. Recognizing that others live in fear, just like me, and that they do things that hurt others, just like I did...... that went a long way to me being able to forgive. That forgiveness was a KEY to moving past some of my bigger resentments.
I have to agree with what your sponsor did.....given the brief explanation you gave.
It also sounds like you had an "expectation" of how that step would go and how you'd feel after. I assume you did the 3rd step though, the one where we concede expectations and decide to turn the results of such things over to our HP. Of course, none of us get this 100% right all the time but I'd bet that 5th step will prove to be, in the long run, FAR more beneficial than had it gone the way you wanted it to go.
The majority of all my growth in recovery has come on the heels of some sort of hurt: waking up to some unmanageability, recognizing some new powerlessness, seeing how I've hurt others in ways I never noticed, seeing my immaturity where I don't think it's present, etc....... all those things "hurt my feelings" and I felt bad about myself (they hurt my false pride and hurt my false ego). Without those things though, I never would have gotten willing to change......and many of the changes have been what's brought the peace and serenity I now enjoy into my life.
As has been mentioned..... a sponsor's job isn't to make you feel good. They're there as a guide through the steps and they're there to help you see what IS rather than just what we want/like to see. Sometimes.......lots of times.......waking up doesn't feel all that good.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 107
Thank you for the feedback. I definitely had an expectation of the fourth step given all the glowing descriptions of the post-fifth step experience I'd heard at meetings over my first year in sobriety!! Wasn't my personal experience. My sponsor didn't really hurt me- more, I just thought, overstepped her boundaries. Hard to describe. Anyway, we'll see what happens when I do my ninth.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
