using avrt but a bit lonely
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 113
using avrt but a bit lonely
hi, newbie here, i've been lurking here for a while, and am quitting a 2 bottles of wine/day habit, i'm on day 8 and feeling very alone and struggling.
i'm quitting using rational recovery & avrt due to previous bad experiences with aa, especially 13th steppers if you know what i mean (plus the philosophy isn't for me) and i know jack trimpey says don't rely on any externals as a precondition of sobriety, so i'm not here for 'support' as such just to talk to other people who've been through the same thing
is it normal to feel like there's something physically wrong with you when you get to about a week clean? is it normal to also have big mood swings? and a bad taste in your mouth, massive thirst for liquids (especially milk and juices)... last time i quit was 5 years ago and i don't think it was as bad then, although i barely stayed the course for more than 5 days at a time for several attempts.
i hope i don't regret posting here and really hope to hear back from some people who quit outside aa and so maybe felt a bit lonely with just you and the addiction.
many thanks,
debs
i'm quitting using rational recovery & avrt due to previous bad experiences with aa, especially 13th steppers if you know what i mean (plus the philosophy isn't for me) and i know jack trimpey says don't rely on any externals as a precondition of sobriety, so i'm not here for 'support' as such just to talk to other people who've been through the same thing
is it normal to feel like there's something physically wrong with you when you get to about a week clean? is it normal to also have big mood swings? and a bad taste in your mouth, massive thirst for liquids (especially milk and juices)... last time i quit was 5 years ago and i don't think it was as bad then, although i barely stayed the course for more than 5 days at a time for several attempts.
i hope i don't regret posting here and really hope to hear back from some people who quit outside aa and so maybe felt a bit lonely with just you and the addiction.
many thanks,
debs
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 210
Congratulations Deb! I think I was more of a binge drinker so my experience quitting may have been different from yours. But what what others have shared around here I think there are some who had similar withdrawal issues as yours. I still crave tons of fluids though, water and juices, and I've also been eating yogurt like it's going out of style!
I'm in my fifth week sobriety and I'm alone most evenings. The constant loneliness faded after a couple of weeks and now I just have a moment of it here and there. Usually when I'm heading home after being out a few hours. SR is great for combating that though - 24/7 there is always activity here
I think you're doing great and think you made a great choice in reaching out here!
I'm in my fifth week sobriety and I'm alone most evenings. The constant loneliness faded after a couple of weeks and now I just have a moment of it here and there. Usually when I'm heading home after being out a few hours. SR is great for combating that though - 24/7 there is always activity here
I think you're doing great and think you made a great choice in reaching out here!
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,445
Hi Debs
Welcome to SR.
I can certainly relate to the mood swings and a lot of tiredness...I've never had a bad taste in my mouth tho or a big thirst.
I always recommend people see a Dr if there's anything they're really concerned about. It's best to put your mind at ease I think
We have a thread here of members detox experiences that may be of use to you as well:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...at-we-did.html
D
Welcome to SR.
I can certainly relate to the mood swings and a lot of tiredness...I've never had a bad taste in my mouth tho or a big thirst.
I always recommend people see a Dr if there's anything they're really concerned about. It's best to put your mind at ease I think
We have a thread here of members detox experiences that may be of use to you as well:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...at-we-did.html
D
Last edited by Dee74; 07-09-2011 at 09:15 PM.
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 8,326
Hi DDebs!
Good to meet you. RR really helped me too. I remember it took me some time to feel normally good. I still drink lots of water and Sierra Mist Diet. I don't remember a bad taste.
Are you making plans for new activities? I'd love to join a book club but it's not possible. Most of my friends aren't alcoholics ands don't drink much so this is good for me.
Love,
Lenina
Good to meet you. RR really helped me too. I remember it took me some time to feel normally good. I still drink lots of water and Sierra Mist Diet. I don't remember a bad taste.
Are you making plans for new activities? I'd love to join a book club but it's not possible. Most of my friends aren't alcoholics ands don't drink much so this is good for me.
Love,
Lenina
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 113
thanks for the replies! i'll take a look at that thread, thanks dee, but going to my doctor's not an option, i'd rather not say why in a detailed manner, let's just say it would do more harm than good.
the only places i found references to a funny taste were on (non-alkie) detox forums, where people do juice fasts to 'detox' from their 2 whole cups of coffee a day (woo!) lol.
i thought about evening social activities but every one seems to involve at least some pubbing, even the local bookclub meets at - tra-la-la!- you guessed it, the local pub. i looked on meetup.com and other places and the only non-alcohol meetings were for alcoholics, which isn't for me because talking about alcohol etc for a whole evening isn't my idea of getting away from sitting home obsessing about wanting a drink, so i'm a bit stuck.
i will eventually be able to go in pubs without drooling over someone's pint, but i don't think i'm ready to test out my resolve just yet!
am i alone in thinking it's a bit rubbish how all activities (at least in the uk and eire) seem to be pub-centred? even when i was drinking i didn't want to do it every single time i went out (i preferred getting smashed alone or with my ex in the house) and it's a bit annoying that the coffee bars of my mum's era are no longer the normal meeting places for social activities.
the only places i found references to a funny taste were on (non-alkie) detox forums, where people do juice fasts to 'detox' from their 2 whole cups of coffee a day (woo!) lol.
i thought about evening social activities but every one seems to involve at least some pubbing, even the local bookclub meets at - tra-la-la!- you guessed it, the local pub. i looked on meetup.com and other places and the only non-alcohol meetings were for alcoholics, which isn't for me because talking about alcohol etc for a whole evening isn't my idea of getting away from sitting home obsessing about wanting a drink, so i'm a bit stuck.
i will eventually be able to go in pubs without drooling over someone's pint, but i don't think i'm ready to test out my resolve just yet!
am i alone in thinking it's a bit rubbish how all activities (at least in the uk and eire) seem to be pub-centred? even when i was drinking i didn't want to do it every single time i went out (i preferred getting smashed alone or with my ex in the house) and it's a bit annoying that the coffee bars of my mum's era are no longer the normal meeting places for social activities.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
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I'm an Aussie so I sympathise with the pub orientated social life - but I find it relatively easy to avoid pubs now...but then again I'm not the social butterfly I once was either....I find I actually like a quiet life now...the party lifestyle I led was just for easy access to booze.
when I stopped drinking most of my mates were heavy drinkers - I found reconnecting with old friends who I'd left behind because they didn't drink as much as I liked to was a good start.
There's actually a lot of things to do that don't involve alcohol at all - here's a link to some suggestions that may help start you off
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post2096085
D
when I stopped drinking most of my mates were heavy drinkers - I found reconnecting with old friends who I'd left behind because they didn't drink as much as I liked to was a good start.
There's actually a lot of things to do that don't involve alcohol at all - here's a link to some suggestions that may help start you off
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post2096085
D
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 39
DD I am at 8 days also and have had some of your same issues especially mood swings and physically feeling "off." No bad taste though. I am having the most trouble with sleeping.
My fluid intake has increased also. Since I was a beer drinker, I was having trouble with not having the carbonation and the "burn" sensation of carbonation. However, RA friend suggested I drink La Croix sparkling flavored water. No calories, no sweetners all natural flavor. Don't know if you can get it outside of USA, but it sure is working for me.
Anything to trick my mind into thinking it's really getting something it wants LOL
My fluid intake has increased also. Since I was a beer drinker, I was having trouble with not having the carbonation and the "burn" sensation of carbonation. However, RA friend suggested I drink La Croix sparkling flavored water. No calories, no sweetners all natural flavor. Don't know if you can get it outside of USA, but it sure is working for me.
Anything to trick my mind into thinking it's really getting something it wants LOL
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
Posts: 3,680
I hope this doesn't scare you, but I was horribly depressed, anxious, and couldn't sleep for about a month when I quit. After that, I was able to start to sleep somewhat normally, and things started to get better. I still got cravings for about 4 months or so, though, but I was drinking straight whiskey all day every day for about two years at the end.
Eventually your brain settles down, though. How long it takes depends on your history, level of dependence, health, how many prior quits you have (it gets worse each time), etc. If you are anxious or cannot sleep, do consider cutting back on caffeine for a while.
Eventually your brain settles down, though. How long it takes depends on your history, level of dependence, health, how many prior quits you have (it gets worse each time), etc. If you are anxious or cannot sleep, do consider cutting back on caffeine for a while.
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: North of England
Posts: 1,442
Hi Debs - still new too, having had periods of a year or more sober, but more recently drinking for the last couple of years at about the same volume as yourself.
I am sure the 'symptoms' you describe are par for the course. I would not worry overly about them unless they become 'extreme'.
I have used AVTR and other secular type approaches as I am an atheist and AA just does not fit my mindset. However I have struggled like mad to get sober again this last few months and I was convinced to go to AA just to be with people who know exactly what I am dealing with. Here in the UK the religious element is not huge in any case and I just opt out of those bits. I never use the word 'god' at all.
I think it is unfortunate that Jack T is so anti-AA. I know he opposes forced attendance (which we don't have here either), but for some of us a mix and match approach is the best way.
Two weeks sober here and feeling very positive. Good luck!
I am sure the 'symptoms' you describe are par for the course. I would not worry overly about them unless they become 'extreme'.
I have used AVTR and other secular type approaches as I am an atheist and AA just does not fit my mindset. However I have struggled like mad to get sober again this last few months and I was convinced to go to AA just to be with people who know exactly what I am dealing with. Here in the UK the religious element is not huge in any case and I just opt out of those bits. I never use the word 'god' at all.
I think it is unfortunate that Jack T is so anti-AA. I know he opposes forced attendance (which we don't have here either), but for some of us a mix and match approach is the best way.
Two weeks sober here and feeling very positive. Good luck!
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 113
Originally Posted by Mentium 
I think it is unfortunate that Jack T is so anti-AA.
) should surely have better things to do!it was nice for me to see AA 'taken down a peg or two' because people in the media and so on really do go on about it like it's perfect, and i bet even the most sincere AA member would never claim that.
most importantly, jack trimpey had me at 'stay exactly as you are, warts and all' because for various reasons any program that tells me i'm flawed, defective, diseased, need to 'take the cotton out of my ears' (aka 'stfu') etc, and that i need a total personality overhaul, is more destructive to me (and more likely to make me hit the bottle) than anything else, because those are the exact deep-seated self-hating beliefs about myself i drink to escape from. sad but true.
if i can stay quit with RR it will be the first step towards rebuilding an image of myself as someone who can control her reactions and her actions on her own, something AA just can't offer me.
to be brutally honest, the reason i stopped trying to quit for ages, despite some very serious consequences, was because for years i genuinely thought AA was the only game in town, the only support for people, and it's certainly the one most heavily promoted by nhs websites (i work in the uk & eire).
if i'd never found RR i wouldn't be sober now and seriously focused on a future of sobriety, i'd still be battling. simple as that!
this is just my experience and not meant as a bash of AA which i know works very well for some people, either 'pure' or with them taking the parts that work best and mixing them up with other systems.
but i don't see how jt could describe the core of avrt truthfully without defining how very different it is, and with that difference has to come a degree of thinking it's better, and pointing up the ways AA is not going to be right for a lot of people.
anyway like i said i don't want to jump into the AA/RR argument but i did find his outspokenness helpful and it got me to where i am right now, having a lovely booze-free weekend and actually feeling hopeful about the future for the first time in ages.
i wish you well working AA, and i hope this time you stay 100% for life!
debs
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 49
First of all, congratulations!! 8 days is awesome.
I had huge mood swings for a loooong time, and I think with me it was because I had never learned to manage my emotions without a drink before. I also had a lot of trouble sleeping, and just felt... I don't know how to explain it... sort of "out of sorts" inside my skin. Eventually it lessened... and lessened... and pretty well stopped.
(Sorry... I quit with AA, but I try not to throw it at people.
)
I had huge mood swings for a loooong time, and I think with me it was because I had never learned to manage my emotions without a drink before. I also had a lot of trouble sleeping, and just felt... I don't know how to explain it... sort of "out of sorts" inside my skin. Eventually it lessened... and lessened... and pretty well stopped.
(Sorry... I quit with AA, but I try not to throw it at people.
)
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 113
Originally Posted by KathP
(Sorry... I quit with AA, but I try not to throw it at people. )
) thanks for the 'gratz, it's the longest i've done in ages and i'm feeling very good with it, and not (for once) telling myself it's proof i can control it, now let's have a little drink to celebrate!
it's kind of nice in a sick way to know i'm not alone with the mood swings and stuff, and it makes it a lot easier to stay focused on the outcome of feeling more-or-less normal and without that cr*p in my life any more.
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Join Date: Aug 2003
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I have quit without using AA and have been in recovery for many years.
There are many people on this board who have done the same.
Personally, I use SR as a lifeline. It keeps me connected to other people who are struggling and I always find inspiration when I come here. For me, the biggest part of quitting drinking was reconnecting with my spiritual (not religious) self.
There are many people on this board who have done the same.
Personally, I use SR as a lifeline. It keeps me connected to other people who are struggling and I always find inspiration when I come here. For me, the biggest part of quitting drinking was reconnecting with my spiritual (not religious) self.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by Mentium
I think it is unfortunate that Jack T is so anti-AA. I know he opposes forced attendance (which we don't have here either), but for some of us a mix and match approach is the best way.
The Nazis invented methadone, and yet many Jews take it. There is nothing inherently anti-AA in AVRT per se, although there certainly is on Trimpey's web site, blog, etc. Not using AVRT because of what Jack Trimpey thinks, if it works for you, is like not using a vaccine because of the patent holder's political views.
I don't care what Jack Trimpey thinks any more than I would care what political party my doctor or lawyer belonged to.
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Edmonton, Alberta.
Posts: 398
Hello!
I had a horrid taste in my mouth for about a week (am only a couple of weeks sober). It just faded away. I couldn't really place it, but it was pervasive! I decided to think of it as toxins leaving my body.
I've had similar experiences with AA and have also been looking into AVRT. I've met plenty of people at SR who have quit in a variety of ways - a great relief to me, and I hope to you too, to know that AA isn't the only road. As a fellow Brit, I agree that you really have to dig to find any alternatives.
I had a horrid taste in my mouth for about a week (am only a couple of weeks sober). It just faded away. I couldn't really place it, but it was pervasive! I decided to think of it as toxins leaving my body.
I've had similar experiences with AA and have also been looking into AVRT. I've met plenty of people at SR who have quit in a variety of ways - a great relief to me, and I hope to you too, to know that AA isn't the only road. As a fellow Brit, I agree that you really have to dig to find any alternatives.
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,962
RR has helped me understand myself in relation to alcohol and drugs. I highly recommended reading RR literature to see a different view about chronic alcoholism and recovery from such.
Google 'AVRT In A Nutshell' to get a version of this tool that dose not mention AA.
Google 'AVRT In A Nutshell' to get a version of this tool that dose not mention AA.
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lowcountry
Posts: 2,762
Hey Deb,
Congrats on day 9 !
I was drinking close to a gallon of water early on. Mood swings, the works.
The main thing i remember about those first 3 weeks was how grateful i was not to be nursing a wicked hangover, ......and hopeful my body would get back to normal in several months.
Like Anna, SR's a lifeline. ( not that I crave drinking the days I'm not here )
The diversity works for me. And I think my brain remembers a little better by "reading" vrs. spoken word too.
I read RR years ago, .....seemed perfectly reasonable. From a secular point of view, AA really thickened my skin up though. The idea I have to use there is this:
I don't have to believe what other folks profess to believe, ....just believe THEY believe it. That always "kept' it simple " for me.
Congrats on day 9 !
I was drinking close to a gallon of water early on. Mood swings, the works.
The main thing i remember about those first 3 weeks was how grateful i was not to be nursing a wicked hangover, ......and hopeful my body would get back to normal in several months.
Like Anna, SR's a lifeline. ( not that I crave drinking the days I'm not here )
The diversity works for me. And I think my brain remembers a little better by "reading" vrs. spoken word too.
I read RR years ago, .....seemed perfectly reasonable. From a secular point of view, AA really thickened my skin up though. The idea I have to use there is this:
I don't have to believe what other folks profess to believe, ....just believe THEY believe it. That always "kept' it simple " for me.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 113
thanks you guys!!!!!
it's now day 21, the longest i have gone sober in years, and i've just had to do some travelling for work as a last minute high pressure scene, when i got to the hotel i wussed out and asked for the minibar to be cleared because im not that solid yet, but it's been pretty easy when i stick with avrt to turn down offers of drinks or bars and i'm coasting so long as i don't get into negotiating or listening to the addiction.
i had 2 days in the past week when i didn't think about the stuff apart from, in the morning 'oh woohoo i've not got a hangover!' and just before bed, feeling blissfully tired and happy that i'm going to bed sober and not in any kind of a state. this for me is like a liberation, and i know it hasn't given up on me but just to feel that peace of mind was worth anything. it's funny i drank in the first place to kill the pain, but then long after i could have got myself all sorted out it carried on kicking me in the head.
i don't want to senda bunch of private messages but sorry to the mods that i linked to rational recovery before when i first joined, i saw you deleted my posts and i didn't mean to offend, i was not cogniscent that it was banned here.
while i obviously have a lot of reasons to be grateful to that system i didn't intend to bait your rules, i just didn't know it was a no-go for here.
i'm travelling again in the next week and i'll probably not post too much, partly because to be honest posting on a recovery forum does bring my own mind back to the topic, which is like sending a 'want to chat' im to my beast lol... but you really helped me that night and i hope to be able to swing by and give support or do whatever as i get a bit more solidly into my new lifestyle.
apparently there's this bit after the 'afternoon' that people call the 'evening', and they do stuff that doesn't involve destroying their neurons - it's really great!
wishing everyone the best,
debs
it's now day 21, the longest i have gone sober in years, and i've just had to do some travelling for work as a last minute high pressure scene, when i got to the hotel i wussed out and asked for the minibar to be cleared because im not that solid yet, but it's been pretty easy when i stick with avrt to turn down offers of drinks or bars and i'm coasting so long as i don't get into negotiating or listening to the addiction.
i had 2 days in the past week when i didn't think about the stuff apart from, in the morning 'oh woohoo i've not got a hangover!' and just before bed, feeling blissfully tired and happy that i'm going to bed sober and not in any kind of a state. this for me is like a liberation, and i know it hasn't given up on me but just to feel that peace of mind was worth anything. it's funny i drank in the first place to kill the pain, but then long after i could have got myself all sorted out it carried on kicking me in the head.
i don't want to senda bunch of private messages but sorry to the mods that i linked to rational recovery before when i first joined, i saw you deleted my posts and i didn't mean to offend, i was not cogniscent that it was banned here.
while i obviously have a lot of reasons to be grateful to that system i didn't intend to bait your rules, i just didn't know it was a no-go for here.
i'm travelling again in the next week and i'll probably not post too much, partly because to be honest posting on a recovery forum does bring my own mind back to the topic, which is like sending a 'want to chat' im to my beast lol... but you really helped me that night and i hope to be able to swing by and give support or do whatever as i get a bit more solidly into my new lifestyle.
apparently there's this bit after the 'afternoon' that people call the 'evening', and they do stuff that doesn't involve destroying their neurons - it's really great!
wishing everyone the best,
debs
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