Jellinek's Stages of Alcoholism
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
Jellinek's Stages of Alcoholism
I thought you all might find this helpful. It provides great insight to the type of alcoholics our friends or family members may be, and the different stages they might be at.
Jellinek's research informed the disease model of alcoholism. As we all say here on SR, alcoholism is a PROGRESSIVE disease. Unless the alcoholic gets help, it will only get worse.
JELLINEK PHASES: THE PROGRESSIVE SYMPTOMS OF ALCOHOLISM
The behavioral characteristics of the alcoholic are progressive as is the person's tolerance to alcohol and as is the course of the disease itself. An inventory of some of these characteristics follows. They are not necessarily in precise chronological order and some may never be experienced by an individual alcoholic. But most of them are experienced and, in total are mileposts along the way.
PRE-ALCOHOLIC PHASE:
In the pre-alcoholic phase, the individual’s use of alcohol is socially motivated. However, the prospective alcoholic soon experiences psychological relief in the drinking situation. Possibly his or her tensions are greater than other people’s, or possibly the individual has no other way of handling tensions that arise. It does not matter. Either way, the individual learns to seek out occasions at which drinking will occur. At some point the connection is perceived. Drinking then becomes the standard means of handling stress. But the drinking behavior will not look different to the outsider. This phase can extend from several months to 2 years or more. An increase in tolerance gradually develops.
PRODROMAL PHASE:
The road to alcoholism begins when the drinking is no longer social but becomes a means of psychological escape from tensions, problems and inhibitions. Although the eventual problem drinker is still in reasonable control, their habits begin to fail into a definite pattern:
1. GrossDrinkingBehavior:Theybegintodrinkmoreheavilya ndmore often than their friends. "Getting wasted" becomes a habit. When drunk, they may develop a "big shot" complex, recklessly spending money, boasting of real and imagined accomplishments, etc.
2. Blackouts:A"blackout,"temporarylossofmemory,isnott obeconfused with "passing out," or loss of consciousness. The drinker suffering from a blackout cannot remember things they said, things they did, places they visited while carousing the night before - or for longer periods. Even a social drinker can have a blackout. With prospective alcoholics, the blackouts are more frequent and develop into a pattern.
3. GulpingandSneakingDrinks:Anxioustomaintainaeuphori clevel, they begin to pass off drinks at parties and instead slyly gulp down extra ones when they think nobody is looking. They may also "fortify" themselves before going to a party to insure their euphoria. They feel guilty about this behavior and skittishly avoid talking about drinks or drinking.
1
4. ChronicHangovers:Astheygrowmoreandmorereliantonalc oholasa shock absorber to daily living, "morning after" hangovers become more frequent and increasingly painful.
CRUCIAL PHASE:
Until now, the problem drinker has been imbibing heavily but not always conspicuously. More important they have been able to stop drinking when they so choose. Beyond this point, they develop the symptoms of addiction with increased rapidity.
5. LossofControl:Thisisthemostcommonsymptomthatadrink er's psychological habit has become a physical addiction. They still may refuse to accept a drink; but once they take a drink they cannot stop. A single drink is likely to trigger a chain reaction that will continue without a break into a state of complete intoxication.
6. TheAlibiSystem:Theirlossofcontrolinducesfeelingsof guiltand shame. So they concoct an elaborate system of "reasons" or excuses for their drinking - "The pressure on my job is too hard to take," or "My wife is constantly yelling at me," or "I'm a little shaky, a drink will calm my nerves." They hope these excuses or rationalizations will justify their behavior in the eyes of their family or associates. In reality, the alibis are mostly made to reassure or bolster the drinker into thinking that their behavior is acceptable.
7. Eye-Openers:Theyneedadrinkinthemorning"tostartthedayri ght." Their "morning" may start at any hour of the day or night. So an eye- opener is, in fact, a drink to ease their jangled nerves, hangover, or feelings of remorse after any period of going without a drink; as an example: while they were sleeping. They cannot face the upcoming hours without alcohol.
8. Changing the Pattern: By now, the drinker is under pressure from their family, friends, and/or employer. They try to break the hold that alcohol has on them. At first, they may try changing the kind of drink; from beer to whiskey or from wine to beer. That does no good. Then they may set up their own rules as to when they will drink and what they will drink: only three martinis on weekends and, of course, holidays. They may even "go on the wagon" for a period of time. But one sip of alcohol and the chain reaction starts all over again.
9. Anti-Social Behavior: They prefer drinking alone or only with other alcoholics, regardless of the other person's social level. The drinker believes that only these other people can understand them. They brood over imagined wrongs inflicted by others outside this pale, and think that people are staring at them or talking about them. They are highly critical of others and may become violent or destructive.
2
10.Loss of Friends, Family or Job: Their continuing anti-social behavior causes their friends to avoid them. The aversion is now mutual. The members of their family may become so helplessly implicated that their spouse leaves them ("to bring him to his senses"). The same situation develops between their employer and fellow workers. And so, they lose their job.
11.Seeking Medical Aid: Physical and mental erosion caused by uncontrolled drinking leads them to make the rounds of hospitals, doctors, psychiatrists, etc. But because they will not admit the extent of their drinking, they seldom receive any lasting benefit. Even when they do halfway "level" with the doctors, they fail to cooperate in following their doctor's instructions and the result is the same.
CHRONIC PHASE:
Until they have reached this point, the alcoholic has had a choice: to drink or not to drink -- the first drink. Once they took the first drink, they then lost all control. But in the last stages of alcoholism, they have no choice: they must drink.
12.Benders: They get blindly and helplessly drunk for days at a time, hopelessly searching for that feeling of alcoholic euphoria they once appreciated. They utterly disregard everything - family, job, food, even shelter. These periodic flights into oblivion might be called "drinking to escape the problems caused by drinking."
13.Tremors: In the past, their hands may have trembled a bit on "mornings after." But now they get "the shakes" when they are forced to abstain, a serious nervous condition which racks their whole body. When combined with hallucinations, they are known as the D.T.'s (delirium tremens), and are often fatal if medical help is not close at hand. During and immediately after an attack, they will swear off alcohol forever. They nevertheless come back for more of the same.
14.Protecting the Supply: Having an immediate supply of alcohol available becomes the most important thing in their life - to avoid the shakes, if nothing else. They will spend their last cent and, if necessary, will sell the coat off their back to get it. Then they hide their bottles so there will always be a drink close at hand when they need it - which can be any hour of the day or night.
15.Unreasonable Resentments: The alcoholic shows hostility toward others. This can be a conscious effort to protect their precious supply of alcohol, be it a half-pint on the hip or a dozen bottles secreted about the home. It can also be the outward evidence of an unconscious desire for self punishment.
16.Nameless Fears and Anxieties: They become constantly fearful of things they cannot pin down or describe in words. It is a feeling of impending doom or destruction. This adds to their nervousness and further
3
underscores the compulsion to drink. These fears frequently crop up in the
form of hallucinations, both auditory and visual.
17.Collapse of the Alibi System: They finally realize that they can no longer
make excuses nor put the blame on others. They have to admit that the fanciful "reasons" they have been fabricating to justify their drinking are preposterous to others and are now ridiculous even to them. This may have occurred to them several times during the course of their alcoholic career, but this time it is final. They have to admit that they are licked; that their drinking is totally out of control and is beyond their ability to control it.
18.Surrender Process: Now, if ever, the alcoholic must give up the idea of ever drinking again and be willing to seek and accept help. If at this point the alcoholic is unable to surrender, all the sign posts point to custodial care or death. If they have not already suffered extensive and irreversible brain damage, there is a strong likelihood that some form of alcoholic psychosis will develop. The amnesia and confabulation of Karsakoff's syndrome and the convulsions and comas of Wernicke's disease are possibilities. Death may come in advanced cases of cirrhosis of the liver, pancreatitis, or hemorrhaging varices of the esophagus. Or they may arrange their own suicide. After all, the suicide rate among alcoholics is three times the normal rate of self-extermination.
Types of alcoholism: Jellinek's species
The pattern described above refers to the stages of alcohol addiction. Jellinek continued his study of alcoholism, focusing on alcohol problems in other countries. The differences he found could not be accounted for simply by the phases of alcohol addiction. They seemed to be differences of kind rather than simply of degree of addiction. This led to his formulation of species, or categories, of alcoholism. Each of these types lie named after a Greek letter.
Alpha alcoholism. This type represents a purely psychological dependence on alcohol. There is neither loss of control nor an inability to abstain. What is evident is the reliance on alcohol to whether any or all discomforts or problems in life, which may lead to interpersonal, family or work problems.
A progression is not inevitable. Jellinek noted that other writers may call this species problem drinking.
Beta alcoholism. This is present when classical problems such as cirrhosis or gastritis develop from alcohol use but the individual is not psychologically or physically dependent. Beta alcoholism is likely to occur in persons from cultures where there is widespread heavy drinking and inadequate diet.
Gamma alcoholism. This variant is marked by a chance in tolerance, physiological changes leading to withdrawal symptoms, and a loss of control. In this species there is a progression from psychological to physical dependence. It is the most devastating species in terms of physical health
4
and social disruption. This is the species Jellinek originally studied. It progresses in the four phase’s discussed - pre-alcoholic, prodromal, crucial, and chronic phase. The gamma alcoholic appeared to be the most prominent type in the United States. This species was the type most common among the members of AA that Jellinek studied. Characteristics of this species alone are often seen as synonymous with alcoholism.
Delta alcoholism. Delta alcoholism is very similar to the gamma variety of alcoholism. There is psychological and physical dependence, but there is no loss of control. Therefore on any particular occasion the drinker can control the amount consumed. The individual, however, cannot go on the wagon for even a day without suffering withdrawal.
Epsilon alcoholism. While not studied in depth, this type appeared to be significantly different from the others. Jellinek called this periodic alcoholism, a type marked by binge drinking. Though not elaborating, he felt this was a species by itself, not to be confused with relapses of gamma alcoholics.
Having described these various species in The Disease Concept of Alcoholism, Jellinek concluded that possibly not all of the species identified are properly categorized as diseases. There was no question in his mind that gamma and delta varieties, each involving physiological changes and a progression of symptoms, were diseases. He speculated that maybe alpha and epsilon varieties are, however, symptoms of other disorders. By more adequately classifying and categorizing the phenomena of alcoholism, he brought scientific order to a field that formerly had been dominated by beliefs.
Jellinek's research informed the disease model of alcoholism. As we all say here on SR, alcoholism is a PROGRESSIVE disease. Unless the alcoholic gets help, it will only get worse.
JELLINEK PHASES: THE PROGRESSIVE SYMPTOMS OF ALCOHOLISM
The behavioral characteristics of the alcoholic are progressive as is the person's tolerance to alcohol and as is the course of the disease itself. An inventory of some of these characteristics follows. They are not necessarily in precise chronological order and some may never be experienced by an individual alcoholic. But most of them are experienced and, in total are mileposts along the way.
PRE-ALCOHOLIC PHASE:
In the pre-alcoholic phase, the individual’s use of alcohol is socially motivated. However, the prospective alcoholic soon experiences psychological relief in the drinking situation. Possibly his or her tensions are greater than other people’s, or possibly the individual has no other way of handling tensions that arise. It does not matter. Either way, the individual learns to seek out occasions at which drinking will occur. At some point the connection is perceived. Drinking then becomes the standard means of handling stress. But the drinking behavior will not look different to the outsider. This phase can extend from several months to 2 years or more. An increase in tolerance gradually develops.
PRODROMAL PHASE:
The road to alcoholism begins when the drinking is no longer social but becomes a means of psychological escape from tensions, problems and inhibitions. Although the eventual problem drinker is still in reasonable control, their habits begin to fail into a definite pattern:
1. GrossDrinkingBehavior:Theybegintodrinkmoreheavilya ndmore often than their friends. "Getting wasted" becomes a habit. When drunk, they may develop a "big shot" complex, recklessly spending money, boasting of real and imagined accomplishments, etc.
2. Blackouts:A"blackout,"temporarylossofmemory,isnott obeconfused with "passing out," or loss of consciousness. The drinker suffering from a blackout cannot remember things they said, things they did, places they visited while carousing the night before - or for longer periods. Even a social drinker can have a blackout. With prospective alcoholics, the blackouts are more frequent and develop into a pattern.
3. GulpingandSneakingDrinks:Anxioustomaintainaeuphori clevel, they begin to pass off drinks at parties and instead slyly gulp down extra ones when they think nobody is looking. They may also "fortify" themselves before going to a party to insure their euphoria. They feel guilty about this behavior and skittishly avoid talking about drinks or drinking.
1
4. ChronicHangovers:Astheygrowmoreandmorereliantonalc oholasa shock absorber to daily living, "morning after" hangovers become more frequent and increasingly painful.
CRUCIAL PHASE:
Until now, the problem drinker has been imbibing heavily but not always conspicuously. More important they have been able to stop drinking when they so choose. Beyond this point, they develop the symptoms of addiction with increased rapidity.
5. LossofControl:Thisisthemostcommonsymptomthatadrink er's psychological habit has become a physical addiction. They still may refuse to accept a drink; but once they take a drink they cannot stop. A single drink is likely to trigger a chain reaction that will continue without a break into a state of complete intoxication.
6. TheAlibiSystem:Theirlossofcontrolinducesfeelingsof guiltand shame. So they concoct an elaborate system of "reasons" or excuses for their drinking - "The pressure on my job is too hard to take," or "My wife is constantly yelling at me," or "I'm a little shaky, a drink will calm my nerves." They hope these excuses or rationalizations will justify their behavior in the eyes of their family or associates. In reality, the alibis are mostly made to reassure or bolster the drinker into thinking that their behavior is acceptable.
7. Eye-Openers:Theyneedadrinkinthemorning"tostartthedayri ght." Their "morning" may start at any hour of the day or night. So an eye- opener is, in fact, a drink to ease their jangled nerves, hangover, or feelings of remorse after any period of going without a drink; as an example: while they were sleeping. They cannot face the upcoming hours without alcohol.
8. Changing the Pattern: By now, the drinker is under pressure from their family, friends, and/or employer. They try to break the hold that alcohol has on them. At first, they may try changing the kind of drink; from beer to whiskey or from wine to beer. That does no good. Then they may set up their own rules as to when they will drink and what they will drink: only three martinis on weekends and, of course, holidays. They may even "go on the wagon" for a period of time. But one sip of alcohol and the chain reaction starts all over again.
9. Anti-Social Behavior: They prefer drinking alone or only with other alcoholics, regardless of the other person's social level. The drinker believes that only these other people can understand them. They brood over imagined wrongs inflicted by others outside this pale, and think that people are staring at them or talking about them. They are highly critical of others and may become violent or destructive.
2
10.Loss of Friends, Family or Job: Their continuing anti-social behavior causes their friends to avoid them. The aversion is now mutual. The members of their family may become so helplessly implicated that their spouse leaves them ("to bring him to his senses"). The same situation develops between their employer and fellow workers. And so, they lose their job.
11.Seeking Medical Aid: Physical and mental erosion caused by uncontrolled drinking leads them to make the rounds of hospitals, doctors, psychiatrists, etc. But because they will not admit the extent of their drinking, they seldom receive any lasting benefit. Even when they do halfway "level" with the doctors, they fail to cooperate in following their doctor's instructions and the result is the same.
CHRONIC PHASE:
Until they have reached this point, the alcoholic has had a choice: to drink or not to drink -- the first drink. Once they took the first drink, they then lost all control. But in the last stages of alcoholism, they have no choice: they must drink.
12.Benders: They get blindly and helplessly drunk for days at a time, hopelessly searching for that feeling of alcoholic euphoria they once appreciated. They utterly disregard everything - family, job, food, even shelter. These periodic flights into oblivion might be called "drinking to escape the problems caused by drinking."
13.Tremors: In the past, their hands may have trembled a bit on "mornings after." But now they get "the shakes" when they are forced to abstain, a serious nervous condition which racks their whole body. When combined with hallucinations, they are known as the D.T.'s (delirium tremens), and are often fatal if medical help is not close at hand. During and immediately after an attack, they will swear off alcohol forever. They nevertheless come back for more of the same.
14.Protecting the Supply: Having an immediate supply of alcohol available becomes the most important thing in their life - to avoid the shakes, if nothing else. They will spend their last cent and, if necessary, will sell the coat off their back to get it. Then they hide their bottles so there will always be a drink close at hand when they need it - which can be any hour of the day or night.
15.Unreasonable Resentments: The alcoholic shows hostility toward others. This can be a conscious effort to protect their precious supply of alcohol, be it a half-pint on the hip or a dozen bottles secreted about the home. It can also be the outward evidence of an unconscious desire for self punishment.
16.Nameless Fears and Anxieties: They become constantly fearful of things they cannot pin down or describe in words. It is a feeling of impending doom or destruction. This adds to their nervousness and further
3
underscores the compulsion to drink. These fears frequently crop up in the
form of hallucinations, both auditory and visual.
17.Collapse of the Alibi System: They finally realize that they can no longer
make excuses nor put the blame on others. They have to admit that the fanciful "reasons" they have been fabricating to justify their drinking are preposterous to others and are now ridiculous even to them. This may have occurred to them several times during the course of their alcoholic career, but this time it is final. They have to admit that they are licked; that their drinking is totally out of control and is beyond their ability to control it.
18.Surrender Process: Now, if ever, the alcoholic must give up the idea of ever drinking again and be willing to seek and accept help. If at this point the alcoholic is unable to surrender, all the sign posts point to custodial care or death. If they have not already suffered extensive and irreversible brain damage, there is a strong likelihood that some form of alcoholic psychosis will develop. The amnesia and confabulation of Karsakoff's syndrome and the convulsions and comas of Wernicke's disease are possibilities. Death may come in advanced cases of cirrhosis of the liver, pancreatitis, or hemorrhaging varices of the esophagus. Or they may arrange their own suicide. After all, the suicide rate among alcoholics is three times the normal rate of self-extermination.
Types of alcoholism: Jellinek's species
The pattern described above refers to the stages of alcohol addiction. Jellinek continued his study of alcoholism, focusing on alcohol problems in other countries. The differences he found could not be accounted for simply by the phases of alcohol addiction. They seemed to be differences of kind rather than simply of degree of addiction. This led to his formulation of species, or categories, of alcoholism. Each of these types lie named after a Greek letter.
Alpha alcoholism. This type represents a purely psychological dependence on alcohol. There is neither loss of control nor an inability to abstain. What is evident is the reliance on alcohol to whether any or all discomforts or problems in life, which may lead to interpersonal, family or work problems.
A progression is not inevitable. Jellinek noted that other writers may call this species problem drinking.
Beta alcoholism. This is present when classical problems such as cirrhosis or gastritis develop from alcohol use but the individual is not psychologically or physically dependent. Beta alcoholism is likely to occur in persons from cultures where there is widespread heavy drinking and inadequate diet.
Gamma alcoholism. This variant is marked by a chance in tolerance, physiological changes leading to withdrawal symptoms, and a loss of control. In this species there is a progression from psychological to physical dependence. It is the most devastating species in terms of physical health
4
and social disruption. This is the species Jellinek originally studied. It progresses in the four phase’s discussed - pre-alcoholic, prodromal, crucial, and chronic phase. The gamma alcoholic appeared to be the most prominent type in the United States. This species was the type most common among the members of AA that Jellinek studied. Characteristics of this species alone are often seen as synonymous with alcoholism.
Delta alcoholism. Delta alcoholism is very similar to the gamma variety of alcoholism. There is psychological and physical dependence, but there is no loss of control. Therefore on any particular occasion the drinker can control the amount consumed. The individual, however, cannot go on the wagon for even a day without suffering withdrawal.
Epsilon alcoholism. While not studied in depth, this type appeared to be significantly different from the others. Jellinek called this periodic alcoholism, a type marked by binge drinking. Though not elaborating, he felt this was a species by itself, not to be confused with relapses of gamma alcoholics.
Having described these various species in The Disease Concept of Alcoholism, Jellinek concluded that possibly not all of the species identified are properly categorized as diseases. There was no question in his mind that gamma and delta varieties, each involving physiological changes and a progression of symptoms, were diseases. He speculated that maybe alpha and epsilon varieties are, however, symptoms of other disorders. By more adequately classifying and categorizing the phenomena of alcoholism, he brought scientific order to a field that formerly had been dominated by beliefs.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: carolina girl
Posts: 578
Wow, that's quite a list.
I find it more helpful to focus on myself than the alcoholic and their disease.
I'm just sayin.
How about a list of codependancy traits and stages? I could have used one of those back when I started on here :codiepolice
I find it more helpful to focus on myself than the alcoholic and their disease.
I'm just sayin.
How about a list of codependancy traits and stages? I could have used one of those back when I started on here :codiepolice
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
It has been a long time since I've read all that.
Want to here something funny.
Could this be co-dependent? I actually *majored* in alcohol abuse. Before I even knew my husband I had an actual legitamate degree in alcohol and drug abuse studies, lmao.
I had other family members with addiction issues. It just goes to show, we find specific types of people whether we know it or not.
Hmm - what degree should I get before I enter my next long term relationshiop. Sure as heck won't be alcohol abuse! Maybe the Business of Boundaries
That sounds good.
Originally Posted by kittykitty 
Wow, that's quite a list.
I find it more helpful to focus on myself than the alcoholic and their disease.
I'm just sayin.
How about a list of codependancy traits and stages? I could have used one of those back when I started on here :codiepolice
I find it more helpful to focus on myself than the alcoholic and their disease.
I'm just sayin.
How about a list of codependancy traits and stages? I could have used one of those back when I started on here :codiepolice
Could this be co-dependent? I actually *majored* in alcohol abuse. Before I even knew my husband I had an actual legitamate degree in alcohol and drug abuse studies, lmao.
I had other family members with addiction issues. It just goes to show, we find specific types of people whether we know it or not.
Hmm - what degree should I get before I enter my next long term relationshiop. Sure as heck won't be alcohol abuse! Maybe the Business of Boundaries
That sounds good.
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Albany NY
Posts: 1,212
I, too, thank you for posting the list. A little education about the progressive nature of the disease never hurt anyone, and as a matter of fact, may even help you in seperating the person from the disease.
I was an Al-Anon member some thirty years ago and had hoped to gain some insight in dealing with my mother's disease. I was probably only about 20 at the time. I was also attending therapy once a week with a counselor. I didn't stay long because my concern shifted from her alcoholism to her uterine cancer. We lost her when I was 21. I got through the first three steps in Al-Anon, and was about to start the fourth when she died. I stopped working on myself after her death. I also became what I didn't want to become.
Seventeen years ago, I joined AA for my own alcohol issues. I attended an alcohol treatment center for 90 days, and have worked a program since then. I learned about codependency as well. It was worth the education and I have learned that someone else's moods do not have to impact mine. I learned to become responsible for myself, and how to detach from outcomes. The first thirty days I spent in rehab was nothing BUT education until my brain cleared, and then my real work began. I was a fortunate person to have had that resource available to me. It was a time when insurance companies were a bit more liberal in their benefits.
So, I'd like to thank you for making the attempt to understand what happened to me and my Mom. You can't solve it for us. You can't make us change. You can only do what you can do for yourself to soothe your soul and make yourself well.
I come to these boards to see if I can help some of the newcomers along. It's part of living the program to us. I always look for information on this disease, as I'm sure others do, especially newcomers who want to know what in the hell might be wrong with them.
Again, thanks for the list.
I was an Al-Anon member some thirty years ago and had hoped to gain some insight in dealing with my mother's disease. I was probably only about 20 at the time. I was also attending therapy once a week with a counselor. I didn't stay long because my concern shifted from her alcoholism to her uterine cancer. We lost her when I was 21. I got through the first three steps in Al-Anon, and was about to start the fourth when she died. I stopped working on myself after her death. I also became what I didn't want to become.
Seventeen years ago, I joined AA for my own alcohol issues. I attended an alcohol treatment center for 90 days, and have worked a program since then. I learned about codependency as well. It was worth the education and I have learned that someone else's moods do not have to impact mine. I learned to become responsible for myself, and how to detach from outcomes. The first thirty days I spent in rehab was nothing BUT education until my brain cleared, and then my real work began. I was a fortunate person to have had that resource available to me. It was a time when insurance companies were a bit more liberal in their benefits.
So, I'd like to thank you for making the attempt to understand what happened to me and my Mom. You can't solve it for us. You can't make us change. You can only do what you can do for yourself to soothe your soul and make yourself well.
I come to these boards to see if I can help some of the newcomers along. It's part of living the program to us. I always look for information on this disease, as I'm sure others do, especially newcomers who want to know what in the hell might be wrong with them.
Again, thanks for the list.
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Originally Posted by wellwisher
So, I'd like to thank you for making the attempt to understand what happened to me and my Mom. You can't solve it for us. You can't make us change. You can only do what you can do for yourself to soothe your soul and make yourself well.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
This board is not just for people who realize they're codependent and in recovery but for people who are still living with active alcoholism and in denial.
When I first came to this board, I was in denial about my exbf's alcoholism. Had someone presented me with a list like THIS one, I would've recognized my ex as being at stage 2 and would have been able to possibly accept what was really going on better. It took me 2 yrs of denial before I finally accepted it.
Yes, sometimes you actually DO have to focus on the alcoholic, in order to understand and get a grip on the disease to cut thru the denial.
When I first came to this board, I was in denial about my exbf's alcoholism. Had someone presented me with a list like THIS one, I would've recognized my ex as being at stage 2 and would have been able to possibly accept what was really going on better. It took me 2 yrs of denial before I finally accepted it.
Yes, sometimes you actually DO have to focus on the alcoholic, in order to understand and get a grip on the disease to cut thru the denial.
Originally Posted by kittykitty
Wow, that's quite a list.
I find it more helpful to focus on myself than the alcoholic and their disease.
I'm just sayin.
How about a list of codependancy traits and stages? I could have used one of those back when I started on here :codiepolice
I find it more helpful to focus on myself than the alcoholic and their disease.
I'm just sayin.
How about a list of codependancy traits and stages? I could have used one of those back when I started on here :codiepolice
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
You're welcome! I'm so sorry about your mom, but glad you got your life together.
Sorry if I sound snarky-I get a little defensive when people reply "stop focusing on the alcoholic and just focus on yourself." It's like going to the alcoholics' board, and seeing that they never really focus on us.
Perhaps they should look at the effect their disease has had on us. So too do we have to be educated and informed about the effects of the disease on THEM. Like you said, this is especially important for newcomers like I was in 2008 who came here hoping you all would help me "fix" my boyfriend and still wasn't sure he was sick.
Sorry if I sound snarky-I get a little defensive when people reply "stop focusing on the alcoholic and just focus on yourself." It's like going to the alcoholics' board, and seeing that they never really focus on us.
Perhaps they should look at the effect their disease has had on us. So too do we have to be educated and informed about the effects of the disease on THEM. Like you said, this is especially important for newcomers like I was in 2008 who came here hoping you all would help me "fix" my boyfriend and still wasn't sure he was sick.
Originally Posted by wellwisher
I, too, thank you for posting the list. A little education about the progressive nature of the disease never hurt anyone, and as a matter of fact, may even help you in seperating the person from the disease.
I was an Al-Anon member some thirty years ago and had hoped to gain some insight in dealing with my mother's disease. I was probably only about 20 at the time. I was also attending therapy once a week with a counselor. I didn't stay long because my concern shifted from her alcoholism to her uterine cancer. We lost her when I was 21. I got through the first three steps in Al-Anon, and was about to start the fourth when she died. I stopped working on myself after her death. I also became what I didn't want to become.
Seventeen years ago, I joined AA for my own alcohol issues. I attended an alcohol treatment center for 90 days, and have worked a program since then. I learned about codependency as well. It was worth the education and I have learned that someone else's moods do not have to impact mine. I learned to become responsible for myself, and how to detach from outcomes. The first thirty days I spent in rehab was nothing BUT education until my brain cleared, and then my real work began. I was a fortunate person to have had that resource available to me. It was a time when insurance companies were a bit more liberal in their benefits.
So, I'd like to thank you for making the attempt to understand what happened to me and my Mom. You can't solve it for us. You can't make us change. You can only do what you can do for yourself to soothe your soul and make yourself well.
I come to these boards to see if I can help some of the newcomers along. It's part of living the program to us. I always look for information on this disease, as I'm sure others do, especially newcomers who want to know what in the hell might be wrong with them.
Again, thanks for the list.
I was an Al-Anon member some thirty years ago and had hoped to gain some insight in dealing with my mother's disease. I was probably only about 20 at the time. I was also attending therapy once a week with a counselor. I didn't stay long because my concern shifted from her alcoholism to her uterine cancer. We lost her when I was 21. I got through the first three steps in Al-Anon, and was about to start the fourth when she died. I stopped working on myself after her death. I also became what I didn't want to become.
Seventeen years ago, I joined AA for my own alcohol issues. I attended an alcohol treatment center for 90 days, and have worked a program since then. I learned about codependency as well. It was worth the education and I have learned that someone else's moods do not have to impact mine. I learned to become responsible for myself, and how to detach from outcomes. The first thirty days I spent in rehab was nothing BUT education until my brain cleared, and then my real work began. I was a fortunate person to have had that resource available to me. It was a time when insurance companies were a bit more liberal in their benefits.
So, I'd like to thank you for making the attempt to understand what happened to me and my Mom. You can't solve it for us. You can't make us change. You can only do what you can do for yourself to soothe your soul and make yourself well.
I come to these boards to see if I can help some of the newcomers along. It's part of living the program to us. I always look for information on this disease, as I'm sure others do, especially newcomers who want to know what in the hell might be wrong with them.
Again, thanks for the list.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
Also, one thing this article really hammers home is the progressive nature of the disease.
I wonder sometimes if those who are staying with their alcoholic spouses or family members, realize what they're really in for.
I wonder sometimes if those who are staying with their alcoholic spouses or family members, realize what they're really in for.
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Albany NY
Posts: 1,212
Absolutely I agree that alcoholics should look to the family and see the effect we have on them. I agree. I knew toward the end of my active drinking that things were spiraling out of control, and the sadness inside was unbearable. The shame was unbearable (and I actually got to the point that I didn't want to be seen outside). It was the reason I sought help. It was hard to see from the outside, but there were telltale signs. I became nothing but regret and shame walking on two legs. While I have no children, my family was slowly but surely turning their back on me. And I was flipping mad at the time - so full of resentment. Also, I had a pathfinder in the family that made his way to rehab and sobriety about two years before I went. (my younger brother). He was kind of like a beacon to me and I saw the support my siblings gave to him when he went in, so it kind of made it easier for me when it was my time.
Might sound a bit cold, but to be honest, I'm glad my mother didn't live long enough to see what happened to her children. It would have killed her. She wasn't mean by nature, she loved us - all seven of us - and both parents did without so their kids COULD have. We know it. Surprisingly, a lot of anger did not rise to the surface toward my Mom while going through counseling and the recovery process. It's more like compassion, and that's probably the result of having walked the same path as she did. I don't blame her. All I had to do was shake her family tree, and the alcoholic nuts would cover the ground.
As stated above, I have straddled both sides of the fence, so I see it from both perspectives.
I did not seek help until I realized I touched and crossed the line I drew in the sand that seperated my addiction from my mother's addiction. (That's kind of hard to explain - my justification: well, at least I go to work and make a paycheck, well, at least I'm not throwing bottles down the stairs, etc). The day I sought help was the day I started throwing empty bottles down the stairs, if you get my meaning. It was the realization that I was doing what my mother did.
But getting back to my original post, which was about the list. Education has everything to do with recognizing ourselves on the path. I have an excellent chart that mirrors your list in that chart. It has a "slide" if you will, that on one side shows the alcoholic's progression into the disease, (which mirrors your list), and on the other side of the "slide" it shows the impact at each stage on family and friends. At the bottom of the "slide" - it shows two paths. One continues down to death for the alcoholic, the other shows "with intervention", and the slide moves on an upward curve. Powerful stuff.
So, just as I was scrolling through the posts and saw that subject line, I stopped in to look at it. It got me, as an alcoholic, to come in and look in "your" room. I doubt you will get any words from the newcomers here - it probably is too painful. But they will see it. The fact that they are here on this site is a glimmer of hope.
So I stand by my original statement - a little education never hurt anyone, and I hope this education helps you seperate the disease from the person.
And having been on both sides of the fence, I know full well the difficulties and challenges faced by both family and the alcoholic.
Until then, all I can do is keep encouraging the ones that stick their big toe in to test the sobriety waters. If I could, I'd be in the lead of a huge new era of Prohibition.
I wish you the best.....
Might sound a bit cold, but to be honest, I'm glad my mother didn't live long enough to see what happened to her children. It would have killed her. She wasn't mean by nature, she loved us - all seven of us - and both parents did without so their kids COULD have. We know it. Surprisingly, a lot of anger did not rise to the surface toward my Mom while going through counseling and the recovery process. It's more like compassion, and that's probably the result of having walked the same path as she did. I don't blame her. All I had to do was shake her family tree, and the alcoholic nuts would cover the ground.
As stated above, I have straddled both sides of the fence, so I see it from both perspectives.
I did not seek help until I realized I touched and crossed the line I drew in the sand that seperated my addiction from my mother's addiction. (That's kind of hard to explain - my justification: well, at least I go to work and make a paycheck, well, at least I'm not throwing bottles down the stairs, etc). The day I sought help was the day I started throwing empty bottles down the stairs, if you get my meaning. It was the realization that I was doing what my mother did.
But getting back to my original post, which was about the list. Education has everything to do with recognizing ourselves on the path. I have an excellent chart that mirrors your list in that chart. It has a "slide" if you will, that on one side shows the alcoholic's progression into the disease, (which mirrors your list), and on the other side of the "slide" it shows the impact at each stage on family and friends. At the bottom of the "slide" - it shows two paths. One continues down to death for the alcoholic, the other shows "with intervention", and the slide moves on an upward curve. Powerful stuff.
So, just as I was scrolling through the posts and saw that subject line, I stopped in to look at it. It got me, as an alcoholic, to come in and look in "your" room. I doubt you will get any words from the newcomers here - it probably is too painful. But they will see it. The fact that they are here on this site is a glimmer of hope.
So I stand by my original statement - a little education never hurt anyone, and I hope this education helps you seperate the disease from the person.
And having been on both sides of the fence, I know full well the difficulties and challenges faced by both family and the alcoholic.
Until then, all I can do is keep encouraging the ones that stick their big toe in to test the sobriety waters. If I could, I'd be in the lead of a huge new era of Prohibition.
I wish you the best.....
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
Yeah, I'm not a fan of telling people how to proceed in their own recovery process either.
Personally, this information is helpful to me because it gives me concrete information instead of letting me maintain that everything is going to get magically better just because we're trying super, really, super hard. Doesn't work that way. How do I know? Because I'm conferring with and sharing information with other people in similar situations, and because information like this gives me a baseline to work from.
So, thank you again!
Personally, this information is helpful to me because it gives me concrete information instead of letting me maintain that everything is going to get magically better just because we're trying super, really, super hard. Doesn't work that way. How do I know? Because I'm conferring with and sharing information with other people in similar situations, and because information like this gives me a baseline to work from.
So, thank you again!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
You're welcome.
Yknow how in AA, they speak of active alcoholics suffering from "terminal uniqueness"? They always think "well I'm different. I'm not going to end up like THAT alcoholic over there." Helps them stay in denial.
I think we codependents do the same. I've been on this forum for 3 years now, and off and on in al-anon for even longer.
I hear the same stories over and over and over. "My AH does THIS. While I do that."
I run an al-anon group on a different social networking site, and a friend of mine joined it yesterday. I was shocked. I had no idea she was dealing with an alcoholic boyfriend-she'd successfully kept it secret for a long time. She finally is coming out about it.
I invited her over and we shared for 2 hours. Her story is the same as people on here, and my own. She even did the "pouring out bottles" thing.
So yeah..I am fascinated with this disease model because yup, pretty much everyone suffering from this disease follows the same trajectory from pre-alcoholism to death, unless they get help. And during the trip down that road, they behave in the same way--extreme denial, shame, guilt, projection, blame...etc.
The more we codies understand this, the less we can harbor the delusion that OUR alcoholic is unique. Our alcoholic will be the one that, if we try hard enough..if we come up with JUST the right bargain..OUR alcoholic will be the one who magically recovers.
We will be the ONE codependent who somehow is able to FIX the alcoholic. Terminal uniqueness
Yknow how in AA, they speak of active alcoholics suffering from "terminal uniqueness"? They always think "well I'm different. I'm not going to end up like THAT alcoholic over there." Helps them stay in denial.
I think we codependents do the same. I've been on this forum for 3 years now, and off and on in al-anon for even longer.
I hear the same stories over and over and over. "My AH does THIS. While I do that."
I run an al-anon group on a different social networking site, and a friend of mine joined it yesterday. I was shocked. I had no idea she was dealing with an alcoholic boyfriend-she'd successfully kept it secret for a long time. She finally is coming out about it.
I invited her over and we shared for 2 hours. Her story is the same as people on here, and my own. She even did the "pouring out bottles" thing.
So yeah..I am fascinated with this disease model because yup, pretty much everyone suffering from this disease follows the same trajectory from pre-alcoholism to death, unless they get help. And during the trip down that road, they behave in the same way--extreme denial, shame, guilt, projection, blame...etc.
The more we codies understand this, the less we can harbor the delusion that OUR alcoholic is unique. Our alcoholic will be the one that, if we try hard enough..if we come up with JUST the right bargain..OUR alcoholic will be the one who magically recovers.
We will be the ONE codependent who somehow is able to FIX the alcoholic. Terminal uniqueness
Originally Posted by Florence
Yeah, I'm not a fan of telling people how to proceed in their own recovery process either.
Personally, this information is helpful to me because it gives me concrete information instead of letting me maintain that everything is going to get magically better just because we're trying super, really, super hard. Doesn't work that way. How do I know? Because I'm conferring with and sharing information with other people in similar situations, and because information like this gives me a baseline to work from.
So, thank you again!
Personally, this information is helpful to me because it gives me concrete information instead of letting me maintain that everything is going to get magically better just because we're trying super, really, super hard. Doesn't work that way. How do I know? Because I'm conferring with and sharing information with other people in similar situations, and because information like this gives me a baseline to work from.
So, thank you again!
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Albany NY
Posts: 1,212
((((sandrawg))))))
terminal uniqueness - I love the phrase!
Yup, no doubt about it - this disease is cunning, tricky, insidious and devastating to those who come into contact with it - directly or indirectly.
You've been in the trenches, no doubt! The cure to sanity is to just keep coming back to the light and to be of compassionate service for those who continue to be impacted by their loved one's disease - I firmly believe that.
I have to go back to "my" room to do the same for those who suffer the disease. As long as they are on these boards, there's a chance to reach them.
I really enjoyed meeting you and thank you for forgiving my invasion into "your" room. It enlightens me, and keeps the whole experience "green" for me.
terminal uniqueness - I love the phrase!
Yup, no doubt about it - this disease is cunning, tricky, insidious and devastating to those who come into contact with it - directly or indirectly.
You've been in the trenches, no doubt! The cure to sanity is to just keep coming back to the light and to be of compassionate service for those who continue to be impacted by their loved one's disease - I firmly believe that.
I have to go back to "my" room to do the same for those who suffer the disease. As long as they are on these boards, there's a chance to reach them.
I really enjoyed meeting you and thank you for forgiving my invasion into "your" room. It enlightens me, and keeps the whole experience "green" for me.
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